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Smirr posted:When I heard they were going to hold the NSU trial in Munich, my immediate reaction was "oh gently caress", though I could not articulate why. München, Hauptstadt der Bewegung!
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May 9, 2013 05:01
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Landsknecht posted:Germany is the home of the German people and the culture here is German, and it will continue to be the dominant culture here barring any major change. What does this even mean, what is your definition of German people and German culture?
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May 9, 2013 08:27
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Can I have a translation? It says "Derrick", "Horst Tappert and "Waffen-SS", was the Inspector Derrick a nazi? 
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May 9, 2013 09:31
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Kurtofan posted:Can I have a translation? Pretty much yeah, Horst Tappert was recently found out to have served in the Waffen-SS. As a consequence, several TV channels announced that they wouldn't air any more reruns of Derrick for the foreseeable future. The poll from that picture is about whether Derrick should be aired anyways. The options are, in order: -"Yes, not every member of the Waffen-SS was a criminal" -"Yes, the show is a german culture good independently of that" -"No, former members of the Waffen-SS have no place in television" -"No, no more episodes should be aired until his (Tappert's) role during the war has been completely revealed" VVVVV Nänänä  VVVVV
Perestroika fucked around with this message at 10:45 on May 9, 2013 |
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May 9, 2013 10:24
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Kurtofan posted:Can I have a translation? Yes, Horst Tappert was in the Waffen-SS. What exactly he did there is still unclear. The question they asked is: "Is Derrick still acceptable on TV?" The answers are, in the order they appear: Yes, not every member of the Waffen-SS was a criminal. Yes, the series is part of German cultural heritage regardless. No, former members of the Waffen-SS don't belong on TV. No, until his role in the war has been cleared up, no further episodes should be broadcast. e: komm du mir nach hause, Perestroika 
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May 9, 2013 10:26
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Kurtofan posted:Can I have a translation? The actor playing Derrick is called Horst Tappert. And Horst Tappert was a member of the Waffen-SS. The options of the poll asking if Derrick should still be aired on TV: 1) Yes, not every member of the Waffen-SS was a war criminal. 2) Yes, the show is part of German culture regardless. 3) No, ex-Waffen-SS members don't belong on TV. 4) No, until his role and actions in the war have been clarified.
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May 9, 2013 10:26
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goethe42 posted:Well, as long as people whose ancestors immigrated (more or less voluntarily) to the US 10 generations ago are still called "African" or "Chinese" Americans, I don't really see the problem with calling them "(Deutsch)Tuerken". I just wanted to address this point from the last page. In America, in many situations people are referred to as "African-Americans" or "Chinese-Americans" or "Euro-Americans" - we emphasize both aspects of the identity. This is the American version of multiculturalism - we draw strength from our diverse, different cultural backgrounds; and we're all united by our common cultural foreground. (I admit, in some situations we call ourselves "black" or "white" or "Asian", but this is because we're narcissists. Obviously the only white or black or Asian people who MATTER are Americans - part of the common cultural foreground that we all share.) (My outsider perspective is that) in Germany, there's no hyphen; there's no "Turkish-German". There are Turkish people and there are German people, and never the twain shall meet. It doesn't matter that the Turkish people in question have lived in Germany for generations, only speak German, and so on; the public discourse still separates "Turkish Germans" and "German Germans" into two distinct groups. I'm not trying to downplay America's serious problems with race, or to claim that we've got it all figured out. But American history is full of examples of ethnic groups - Irish, Italians, Jews, even Germans - who were once considered utterly, unassimably foreign. These groups used to face vicious economic and political discrimination, and now they don't; people still retain their "German-American" identity, without living in some sort of blighted, German-only ghetto. And things are getting measurably better for the groups who are still discriminated against - they're on that same path to economic and political equality. Minorities in Germany seem to have veered off that path, and become a permanent, discriminated-against underclass.
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May 9, 2013 10:37
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dreamin' posted:But because we then had 8 years of SPD/Green government all the good Germans can now rightfully claim "multikulti" doesn't work. After all, what are 40 years of ignorance and discrimination against 8 years of total multikulti?
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May 9, 2013 14:16
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Noahdraron posted:Maybe we should hang an infant's foreskin and a picture of Mohammed right next to it to make it equal.
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May 9, 2013 14:25
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this is much better than Derricks past, lets have a look what the BND (the West Germany Intelligence Service) was up to: http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de...8c01748cad.html http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/39/39095/1.html
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May 9, 2013 15:21
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Teron D Amun posted:this is much better than Derricks past, lets have a look what the BND (the West Germany Intelligence Service) was up to: This all rests on the testimony of one guy, and the media and people who are writing comments are "just asking questions" - hmm... I'm not saying that this is impossible, but I don't know why you're presenting this as an established fact. Maybe because you'd like it to be so?
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May 9, 2013 23:15
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So could someone explain the whole V-Männer debacle to me? Basically the German FBI equivalent was supposed to infiltrate white supremacist groups but it turned out that the FBI themselves were white supremacists the whole time and ended up just funneling money to these groups? Also apparently "Germany is for Germans only" is an acceptable sentiment to come from a liberal first world country in 2013 and totally not similar at all to racists in America complaining about blacks/asians/hispanics/jews/irish/catholics/etc? It seems to me, as an observer, that racial sentiment in Germany is just as bad if not worse than in America, it just hasn't escalated politically into the 40 year long shitstorm that American conservatism has become. I mean, I guess I could understand if it was at least possible to acquire citizenship with a reasonable effort and the Turks simply didn't bother, but as far as I'm aware acquiring German citizenship is basically not possible as a non-European. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 10, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 01:30
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icantfindaname posted:So could someone explain the whole V-Männer debacle to me? Basically the German FBI equivalent was supposed to infiltrate white supremacist groups but it turned out that the FBI themselves were white supremacists the whole time and ended up just funneling money to these groups? In this case, the German domestic secret service basically paid Nazis to give them information. It worked out about as well as you would think with the added twist that they sometimes apparently did receive orders from law enforcement agencies to act as agent provocateurs. Also significant parts of the underground Nazi network in Germany were financed through V-Mann deals, apparently. Plus, because that isn't enough of a poo poo sandwich already, law enforcement in Germany is federalized. When they tried to outlaw the NPD, the right-wing party with ties to the Nazi underground, one of the main reasons they couldn't in the end was because every single federal secret service had V-Männer in important positions in the party to the point where the courts couldn't be sure if the entire party wasn't simply controlled indirectly by the secret service. quote:Also apparently "Germany is for Germans only" is an acceptable sentiment to come from a liberal first world country in 2013 and totally not similar at all to racists in America complaining about blacks/asians/hispanics/jews/irish/catholics/etc? As for the racial sentiment being really loving bad here: A few years ago, I would have at least claimed that the situation is slowly improving. It might still be for all I know, but it's still so bad that I'm just gonna answer your question with: Yes. The discourse has just shifted towards a wider usage of euphemisms. 
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May 10, 2013 02:34
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I don't get where you got Deutschland den Deutschen as an acceptable political statement from. It is used by the one party everyone recognizes as Nazis and, apparently, a few SA posters (which may or may not be sad that another organization with the same acronym no longer exists). You might as well claim that Stormfront dictates official US policy. That's not to say we are a multicultural wonderland, but there is at least the (grudging) acceptance that Germany needs immigrants because we're running below replacement level birthrate and have done so for decades.
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May 10, 2013 03:54
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Ponsonby Britt posted:(My outsider perspective is that) in Germany, there's no hyphen; there's no "Turkish-German". There are Turkish people and there are German people, and never the twain shall meet. It doesn't matter that the Turkish people in question have lived in Germany for generations, only speak German, and so on; the public discourse still separates "Turkish Germans" and "German Germans" into two distinct groups. We also have the hyphen, it's Deutsch-Türke, Deutsch-Libanese, Deutsch-Amerikaner. There was no problem with the integration of (Eastern) Central Europeans and ex-Jugoslavian people, that came before and after the WW II, a good third of the people in my Abitur-class had at least one parent that was not born in Germany (myself included). It's a little bit different with the next wave of immigrants, mostly from southern Europe and Turkey, that came initially as temporary workers. Basically, the closer they were culturally, the better they have integrated. There are no German-Italian, German-Spanish or German-Portugese ghettos. The German-Turkish ghettos exist only in the poor(er) North (Ruhr-area, the german rustbelt) and East (well, Berlin), although the proportion of people with an "immigrational background" is much higher in the (richer) South. Basically, if there are jobs, the integration works (better), if there aren't, not so much. The situation of German-Turks in Germany is very much alike to African-Americans in the US, with the difference being 50+ years instead of 250+ years of integration.
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May 10, 2013 07:33
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goethe42 posted:We also have the hyphen, it's Deutsch-Türke, Deutsch-Libanese, Deutsch-Amerikaner. There was no problem with the integration of (Eastern) Central Europeans and ex-Jugoslavian people, that came before and after the WW II, a good third of the people in my Abitur-class had at least one parent that was not born in Germany (myself included). Hmmm, so is cultural integration in Germany more of a one-way street? How much does a German-Spanish person conform to German culture, versus how much does German culture open up and become more Spanish?
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May 10, 2013 10:23
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It's an absolute lie to claim that "Deutsch-anything" is a word that is actually used in every day language. It might be used in print, but in every day spoken language there are Germans and there are turks. It is also hilarious to claim 50 years of integration if you consider that it took until the late 80ies/early 90ies for politics to move away from the idea that the way to deal with "immigration" is to provide incentives for as many immigrants as possible to emigrate "back home" again. Even if the "immigrants" were second generation. Secondly, there are "italian ghettos" as much as there are "turkish ghettos". It's just not as en vogue to talk about them, they are also simply harder to identify because they aren't doing as the favour of being "Kopftuchmädchen". I went to elementary school in an inner-city district where most of the parents of my German friends were finding every excuse under the sun to ship their children off to a different school because of all the immigrants, the vast majority was italian and portuguese, not turkish.  Check this lovely cover of known multikulti fanzine der spiegel from 1981 reading "Borders closed for foreigners?", choice quotes from the 1982 election campaigns: soon-to-be chancellor Kohl (CDU): “Wir werden die Arbeitslosigkeit und die Zahl der in Deutschland lebenden Ausländer um die Hälfte reduzieren” (We will reduce unemployment and the number of foreigners living in Germany by 50%) soon-to-be ex-chancellor Schmidt (SPD): "Mir kommt kein Türke mehr über die Grenze!" (I will not let a single turk cross the border anymore) first "Ausländerbeauftragter" Heinz Kühn (SPD), 1980: „Ich wäre glücklich, wenn heute eine Million Türken wieder zurückgingen in ihre Heimat“ (I would be happy if one million turks would go back to their homeland today!) But that's 1980ish, surely things changed soon! Well, maybe you should read the campaign points of the CDU/CSU in the 90s, first during the wave of neo-nazi violence and then when SPD/Greens were daring to reform immigration policy at the end of the millenium. In 1991, when violent right wing extremism became a constant and public thing, the response of the government was a firm "Yes extrimism is bad BUT..." and promptly legislated it to be harder to apply for political asylum/immigrate, afterwards the secretary of the interior is on record as congratulating himself on the lowered number of new immigrants/asylum seekers with „Dieses Ergebnis wäre nicht erzielbar gewesen ohne die öffentliche Auseinandersetzung – die natürlich auch Hitzegrade erzeugt hat”. "This result would not have been possible without out public dicussion (over immigration) - which cause some degree of heat of course". You know, degrees of heat. Like a series of lynchmobs torching homes and housing of immigrants and asylum seekers. Sounds far fetched: look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7PB6-gmDfw This is Rudolf Seiters, secretary of the interior, in the press conference right on the night after the torching of an asylum seekers housing complex by a lynchmob. What's his message? We need to deal with the flood of asylum abuse that makes poor Germans act out against foreigners. Oh, and just to remind everyone what we are talking about, so noone assumes hyperbole when I say "lynchmob": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUQ4n_1ALU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcDRVtf1fSU Even if you don't speak German, just check out how they can riot and burn things for ages, how large the mob is and then keep in mind that the police AND THE MOB had been on location for 3 days now, never once was the mob dispersed, and then in the end, most of the police force was actually pulled off before the actual burning happened. They were sieging the place for days and the police claimed they couldn't do anything because those actually being violent always retreated behind the lines of the "peaceful" (but chanting and applauding) onlookers. And it then took until the SPD/Green government in 2000 for legislation to even allow dual citizenship for second generation immigrants, under strict rules. (My citizenship is German for example and if I apply to gain Bolivian citizenship, too, which I am entitled to on account of my father, in theory I have to apply for a special permit or otherwise I will lose my German citizenship. I say in theory because most foreign states simply don't feel the need to inform the German state of the whole procedure so if Germany never officially knows about my second citizenship they also won't revoke theirs). And the conservatives still took to the streets and to the election campaigns AGAIN against it. Sign here against the foreigners! Don't get me wrong, Germany is not a land filled with roving bands of neo-nazis. Official policy has changed, especially once people realized that "THE MARKETS" and "THE ECONOMY" might call for it. It is just that I find it incredibly frustrating how blind otherwise rational people are to the fact that you cannot erase 40 years and two generations of history just so you can avert all the blame and place it nice and clean on the integrationsunwillige culture of "some people". I grew up in this country and I can remember vividly of being followed around by half the staff in every department store, who had to hover over me and my parents closely and actually on multiple occasions claimed that customers are not allowed to touch things like rugs, blankets, carpet, pillows when my dads brown hands moved towards it, while the German hausfrauen around us where being bombarded with "Feel this, sooo soft". Or how I was an absolute trains buff as a kid, and loved going on train rides to visit my grandma and who else on my own, but I was scared of buying tickets at the automatic vending machine all the way until I was in school because the first two times that I remember being old enough to use it myself, the Bundesbahn attendant nearby just shot over the five steps and actually slapped me on the hand with the words "stop playing around with this, you guys never pay anyway". Germany was fighting to avoid integrating their immigrants tooth and nail until what is only about one generation ago, and somehow is now trying to convince itself that this did not contribute to its current problems. Edit: Oh and just something that I find ironic, considering how once again its the fear of economics in the face of low birth rates that actually makes people consider immigration in Germany: The original Gastarbeiter program included a provision that mandated the immigrants to return home after a two year period. Specifically so that they would not integrate and Germany would not be in danger of actually gaining a permanent immigrant population. This was only stricken after 2 years because the business' employing these workers complained that this made it unprofitable for them to do so, as they would have to reeducate a new set of workers after each period 
Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 10:40 on May 10, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 10:32
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dreamin' posted:Germany was fighting to avoid integrating their immigrants tooth and nail until what is only about one generation ago, and somehow is now trying to convince itself that this did not contribute to its current problems. This. It's disgusting. But at least it's getting slowly better.
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May 10, 2013 10:38
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ArchangeI posted:I don't get where you got Deutschland den Deutschen as an acceptable political statement from. It is used by the one party everyone recognizes as Nazis and, apparently, a few SA posters (which may or may not be sad that another organization with the same acronym no longer exists). You might as well claim that Stormfront dictates official US policy. Deutschland den Deutschen is totally not an acceptable political statement, but I (as a not even ethnic german who lives in Germany) think that there should probably be some notion of German people/culture, even if it needs to be reformed into something more of a "melting pot" ideal instead of whatever idiotic ideal the far right has. If you look at all the immigrants/foreigners in the country today, you'll see that those who blend in best are Polish/Czech/Slovak, now that all the seperations from the cold war and hyper racism of the 30s/40s are gone people are realizing that there is no west/east magic line and that there are not many differences across north/central european cultures. I mean Merkel is at least a quarter ethnically polish (if you count Polish as being people born in what is now Poland then it's more like 75%), and the Minister-President of Sachsen is Sorbian (technically a slavic group), and in all these countries there are piles of people who have names that sound like they could be from any one of the nations nearby. I think a big issue with defining deutsche Kultur is that ever since Nazism there hasn't really been a serious look at what consitutes german Culture/being German, and most of this is now monopolized by the far right, which naturally ruins it for everyone. I think it really is necessary for Germany to start to develop a national identity/culture which is both inclusive to outsiders, but also very mindful of tradition.
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May 10, 2013 10:59
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German cultural identity? What a joke if you consider how short of a time Germany has existed. There are tons of regional cultural identities though. Another way to define a more broad and general cultural identity would be the cultural identity of all regions with German being the main language. Germany isn't a monolithic culture, just because there are some borders around it separating people from each other who are otherwise pretty similar to each other. It's just as problematic as saying that Bavaria the federal state should have a single unifying cultural identity even though besides the Bavarians there are also tons of Suabians and Franconians. Edit: Travelling from Bavaria to Berlin or Sylt feels just as foreign as going to Vienna or Zürich. Going to Innsbruck or Salzburg on the other hand feels much more familiar than going to Northern Germany. It's a bit a matter of distances and a matter of dialects, borders don't really factor into this. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 11:36 on May 10, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 11:21
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:German cultural identity? What a joke if you consider how short of a time Germany has existed. There are tons of regional cultural identities though. Another way to define a more broad and general cultural identity would be the cultural identity of all regions with German being the main language. Germany isn't a monolithic culture, just because there are some borders around it separating people from each other who are otherwise pretty similar to each other. Yeah, like I said most of central/northern europe is pretty homogenous, besides a few things such as catholicism/protestantism/atheism and then languages. I think a serious issue with defining any sort of identity is that it will play into the hands of seperatists, France really doesn't focus on minority languages or cultures at all inside the country (and I'm not talking about immigrants, like Brittany and Provence are really ignored), because it would most likely make the union as a whole weaker. I think what needs to be recoginized is the various shared values and traditions, and instead of focussing on Multikulti (which will most likely just lead to more cultural misunderstanding/competition), there should be a focus on how new immigrants/other groups can take part in and share those values and traditions.
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May 10, 2013 11:39
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Germany has been multicultural since it's formation. On German territory there are broadly speaking six different peoples. Some would say there are even more. Multikulti works if all groups involved are equally well off and none feel unfairly treated by the rest. It gets ugly if that is not the case. Just look at how East Germans are looked down upon by West Germans. So I think it would be more important to concentrate on education and generally giving everyone the same chance to rise up economically. That takes time of course, but will work in the long run. As long as right wing idiots (both German and immigrant) aren't given the chance to ruin everything by promoting xenophobia, jealousy and discrimination at least. Regarding shared values and traditions: I have a hard time thinking of any that are uniquely German. There are many European, Christian, German-language or regional ones though. And they are important, of course. But I don't think instilling any values works to facilitate integration. It works the other way round: First you integrate people by giving them a place in society from a purely economical perspective. And then people start getting to know each other on a broader basis and cultural values get exchanged. Edit: Poor immigrants and Germans in some German regions are actually pretty far ahead in creating a shared cultural identity. The adoption of many foreign words from a variety of languages used by everyone no matter what their ethnicity is for example. But depressingly there are enough other cases where poor people are divided by their xenophobia instead of recognizing they are all in the same boat getting hosed by the German elites. Edit 2: There are also tons of values that shouldn't be seen as positive. Subservience to authority for example. Or the feeling of moral and general superiority. Subservience to authority is actually one of those values that could be considered as uniquely German, even though this value is more widespread than the current territory of Germany. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 12:21 on May 10, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 12:01
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dreamin' posted:It's an absolute lie to claim that "Deutsch-anything" is a word that is actually used in every day language. It might be used in print, but in every day spoken language there are Germans and there are turks. It is also hilarious to claim 50 years of integration if you consider that it took until the late 80ies/early 90ies for politics to move away from the idea that the way to deal with "immigration" is to provide incentives for as many immigrants as possible to emigrate "back home" again. Even if the "immigrants" were second generation. Well, I was answering to an American talking about the similarities between the diction in Germany and the US. I assume that "African-American" is used as polite/correct word, while between friends/at home it's "black", just as much as "Deutschtürke" is the polite version, while "Türke" is the everyday, on the street word. Although I never really had the need to use either, I've found "colleague", "friend", "classmate", "some rear end in a top hat", "that guy over there" or simply the name sufficient when talking about people of turkish(italian, jugoslavian, polish, kurdish, tunisian...) heritage. Also it was 50 years of integration of Turks into german society(or chance thereof)compared to 200 years of integration of African Americans into American society. I could have also said 15 years (since rot-grün) compared to 45 years (since MLK). Regarding the ghettos, I've never lived in northern or eastern Germany, I only know Duisburg-Marxloh or Berlin-Neukölln from TV. All the "Italians" I've ever met in Germany were well integrated into society, so much that you only could tell from their last name or their constant boasting throughout international soccer competitions that they were of italian heritage. But that's something I mentioned, in the rich(er) south integration works better than in the poorer north and east.
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May 10, 2013 13:55
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Germany has been multicultural since it's formation. On German territory there are broadly speaking six different peoples. Some would say there are even more. I think a big issue is that there is no halfway identity, there are many people who are 3rd generation immigrants who grew up speaking German, went to University here and work in a german workplace, but may be ethnically Turkish and muslim and thus don't fit the traditional stereotype of "Deutsch." I think that it is a huge problem that there is no wider definition of being German and a sense of belonging to the country other than being ethnically german/christian/speaking german, and in the future this seriously going to hurt the country as a whole. I have some sort of benefit because I look german/speak german/am catholic, but my french first/lame still dictates to some people that I will never be german. You really see some trouble when you ask people about notable foreigners, especially celebrities. Ask people if Özil, Khedira or Gomez are true Germans, and they'll have a tough time answering. These guys are all born and raised here, and are national heroes for football fans, yet I don't think people would define them as being more than "sort of German" or "I guess they're German," there is still some leftover ethnic/racial component tied to the national identity which needs to be stamped out. A hard question is to figure out how to give other groups an "equal place" in society while still pushing permanent residents/immigrants to integrate. I think both full out assimilation and on the opposite full acceptance of all other groups are not the answers, the solution probably is somewhere in the middle. On the topic of positive/negative values: Subservance to authority doesn't necessarily have to be bad. Most here probably know "Der Hauptmann von Köpenick" and how it demonstrates how boneheaded Prussians were with obeying people in uniforms, but if the ultimate authority is seen as the Grundgesetz and the Law then I think you will get a much better society if people obey religiously.
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May 10, 2013 14:20
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http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2012/04/2012423832530988.html This is pretty shameful, people born in Germany growing up only speaking German can be deported. I guess their blood isn't pure enough or something? The whole idea of people not being granted citizenship when they are born in a country, let alone born and raised there is mind boggling from an outside perspective. If making them citizens is too scary I don't know, have some landed-immigrant visa thing you get if you're born there. Also just saw a performance of Schimmelpfennig's Der goldene Drache the other night so you could say I'm on a "gently caress how Germany handles immigrants" kick. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 10, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 20:08
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goethe42 posted:The situation of German-Turks in Germany is very much alike to African-Americans in the US, with the difference being 50+ years instead of 250+ years of integration. I'm going to assume that you mean here that Turks have been in Germany for 250+ years since I don't really think you can consider the US as even attempting to integrate African-Americans until the civil rights movement.
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May 10, 2013 21:22
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Baronjutter posted:http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2012/04/2012423832530988.html Nah, it is about money, of course. If one of the parents has a job, they get (sorta permanent) residency permits and are safe. If you are poor and live on social security, better don't cause trouble!  I don't really see what being born somewhere has to do with citizenship though, why should it matter?
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May 10, 2013 22:45
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You're "nationality" is basically where you were born or raised, unless someone thinks there a genetic component or something. So what if their parents or grand parents are from Lebanon or Turkey, "deporting" them there is forced immigration for them to a foreign country. Might as well send them to Bolivia or China, they have only a thin legal connection to the country they're being shipped off to. It feels like a weird idea saying their "blood" is from X country so if we don't like them we'll send them there, to be among their own "blood". I mean can you imagine, you personally being born and raised in Germany and then suddenly finding out because some ancestor of yours didn't have some arbitrary paperwork in order you're apparently now Ukrainian and are being shipped off the Ukraine to be with your own people because we've declared you a not-german. Well I guess that doesn't compare because you wouldn't have grown up thinking you were a real german because if you were brown you'd be reminded kindly ever day that you aren't and can never be one.
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May 10, 2013 22:56
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Is this in response to my post? I didn't say anything to contradict that.
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May 10, 2013 23:06
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Nah just rambling. Everyone in my family are immigrants, my marriage required immigration and visas and poo poo. There's such a family history of these sorts of issues it's a real button-issue thing for me. All I can say is being an immigrant or dealing with visas sucks poo poo and is one of the most stressful and dehumanizing experiences you can go through and any country that thinks its self even remotely civilized or progressive should and could be doing a lot more to support its immigrants better and make the whole process faster and easier. And someone born or raised in a country should never fear being sent off to a foreign land. If they're a criminal or welfare bum don't offload the problem on someone else, they were raised in your society and are a product of your society so take care of it. But it's easier to just stick them in ghettos as 2nd class citizens then send them off to another country if they aren't "integrating" well enough.
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May 10, 2013 23:18
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Perestroika posted:Pretty much yeah, Horst Tappert was recently found out to have served in the Waffen-SS. As a consequence, several TV channels announced that they wouldn't air any more reruns of Derrick for the foreseeable future. Smirr posted:Yes, Horst Tappert was in the Waffen-SS. What exactly he did there is still unclear. The question they asked is: "Is Derrick still acceptable on TV?" The answers are, in the order they appear: Lucy Heartfilia posted:The actor playing Derrick is called Horst Tappert. And Horst Tappert was a member of the Waffen-SS. Ah thanks, it's pretty hilarious to me since Inspector Derrick was on France 3 (a French public channel) every goddamn afternoon since loving forever (my grandmas loved to watch it was on )It was relegated to late night air time since a year or so and recently they announced they're stopping the reruns. Inspector Derrick is kind of famous in France for being a very sleep inducing tv show.
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May 10, 2013 23:19
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Topical placeholder until I give a real reply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zUZlxEYF8o
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May 11, 2013 03:15
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dreamin' posted:It's an absolute lie to claim that "Deutsch-anything" is a word that is actually used in every day language. It might be used in print, but in every day spoken language there are Germans and there are turks. dreamin' posted:And it then took until the SPD/Green government in 2000 for legislation to even allow dual citizenship for second generation immigrants, under strict rules. (My citizenship is German for example and if I apply to gain Bolivian citizenship, too, which I am entitled to on account of my father, in theory I have to apply for a special permit or otherwise I will lose my German citizenship. I say in theory because most foreign states simply don't feel the need to inform the German state of the whole procedure so if Germany never officially knows about my second citizenship they also won't revoke theirs). The fact that Germany generally doesn't allow dual citizenship for people who are naturalized while the US does allow this also explains why many foreigners living in Germany would be reluctant to become Germans and why that situation is different from the US and many other countries. Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 10:07 on May 11, 2013 |
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May 11, 2013 10:04
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Kurtofan posted:Ah thanks, it's pretty hilarious to me since Inspector Derrick was on France 3 (a French public channel) every goddamn afternoon since loving forever (my grandmas loved to watch it was on  "Baronjutter posted:But it's easier to just stick them in ghettos as 2nd class citizens then send them off to another country if they aren't "integrating" well enough. For my part, my experience with Turkish-Germans are all good. Our neighbours were that and they were rad, lent me a bike they weren't using and when I went to Japan the missus made me snacks. 
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May 11, 2013 17:23
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I heard Kommissar Rex was a member of the woofen SS  cargo cult posted:From the last page but I dropped into this thread just to see how long it'd take to find a post like this and welp lol I was just joking ok? 
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May 11, 2013 19:27
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Landsknecht posted:If it's enjoyable and easy we're probably doing something wrong, any public necessity should be accessible but only if you try hard. Why can't these people just play EU3 to satisfy their nationalistic hard-ons ugh
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May 11, 2013 20:50
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NwahNerevar posted:Why can't these people just play EU3 to satisfy their nationalistic hard-ons ugh As I was reading all about how germany is pretty new and a mostly made-up collection of different cultures and nations that just happen to more or less speak the same-ish language I instantly started thinking about EU3 or V2. Germany just needs to get enough turks to assimilate into german-turkish culture group and get that percentage up high enough for it to become an accepted culture and get rid of the non-accepted culture penalty. Also changing its citizenship view from "residency" or "limited citizenship" to "full citizenship".
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May 11, 2013 21:10
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Baronjutter posted:As I was reading all about how germany is pretty new and a mostly made-up collection of different cultures and nations that just happen to more or less speak the same-ish language Okay, countries don't exist, cultures doesn't exist and languages probably also don't exist, and I hate every little thing they do but I still want to immigrate because... It's understandable that people argue in self-serving ways, but a lot of the garbage that got posted about the country and its culture not really existing or being new and a mixture etc. would also apply to most other major countries.
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May 11, 2013 23:52
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Noahdraron posted:I heard Kommissar Rex was a member of the woofen SS Now I must throw all my idols and drawings on pyre. Noahdraron posted:I was just joking ok? flavor posted:Okay, countries don't exist, cultures doesn't exist and languages probably also don't exist, and I hate every little thing they do but I still want to immigrate because... And people immigrate for the money. For fucks sake, people immigrate to the US, you think they wouldn't go for Germany, no matter the flaws? You think they should be happy you're letting them in at all? Be serious. flavor posted:It's understandable that people argue in self-serving ways, but a lot of the garbage that got posted about the country and its culture not really existing or being new and a mixture etc. would also apply to most other major countries.
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May 12, 2013 03:47
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flavor posted:Okay, countries don't exist, cultures doesn't exist and languages probably also don't exist, and I hate every little thing they do but I still want to immigrate because... Yes, it would? Is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha? It's almost as if the idea of a nation state is discredited and obsolete. This doesn't mean you have to open the borders to literally everyone, but it would seem to indicate that "well they don't have the same religion and aren't trying their utmost to become the most German Germans on earth" is not a valid reason to relegate an ethnic group to second class status and stuff them in ghettos for decades. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:13 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 03:56
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