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bobkatt013 posted:Also First Contact. First Contact would not be canon
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May 9, 2013 10:15
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I loved this - functioned as an exorcism of everything I don't like about Star Trek. I hope I end up able to read the film this way too, because this sounds really neat. Thanks for gettin' me hyped
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May 9, 2013 10:29
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WeAreTheRomans posted:First Contact would not be canon But First Contact is canon. As per Enterprise.
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May 9, 2013 10:41
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' The framing is all wrong with objects partially outside the frame, which breaks the 3D effect. There’s also repeated use of out of focus foreground objects that distract the eye to the point of discomfort. Definitely see it in 2D.' - http://www.londoncitynights.com/2013/05/star-trek-into-darkness-2013-directed_8.html Hallelujah i'm not crazy! I literally broke out in a sweat its that discomforting! Luckily my cinema is now doubling the 2d runs of this movie! (watched the movie in IMAX 3D worst decision ever! DO NOT see this movie in IMAX 3D or you will be ruined like me)
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May 9, 2013 10:53
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Senor Tron posted:Overall it's basically more of the same from the last movie. If you liked the first reboot film, then you'll enjoy this one. If you didn't like the previous one then many of the issues from it remain in this one. Worth watching though. Yeah, I really enjoyed the film and felt it was a great follow-up to the first as well as having some really neat callbacks to the old movies and tv series. I thought Benedict Cumberbatch was excellent but that's kind of like saying I find water to be wet, really. The only issues I really had with the film (both late movie spoilers) were: They make a big point about how they can't communicate with Earth/Starfleet but a little later Spock is able to communicate with old Spock on New Vulcan, and I would have thought that it might have paid to mention,"Oh p.s, can you call up Starfleet and let them know what's going on, because poo poo be crazy." The massive destruction caused by the Vengeance crashing into San Francisco is pretty much completely brushed over, when it really should have had bigger impact. When Spock is chasing Khan down the street people are just kind of wondering around/driving down the roads like nothing has happened, and in the "one year later" bit the talk seems to be more about Khan's attack on Starfleet's assembled leaders in the aftermath of the London bombing than the massive loss of life and destruction of property that followed a couple of days later. That said, I hugely enjoyed the film's theme that the senseless, immediate and savage satisfaction of vengeance in reaction to a terrorist attack (that you could argue was in some ways justified) is not a good thing, and what is really important is to heal and move on with resolve and grace, rising above going "into darkness" like people like Marcus saw as their only alternative. After seeing the film, the movie title made far more sense than the pun it initially seemed to be.
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May 9, 2013 12:00
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From what I'm hearing the new film is mostly about the conflict between exploration and militarism over how technology is used. What I'm wondering is whether the writers did much to establish that the crew of the Enterprise is actually interested in exploration. The new Kirk didn't really seem so interested in any of those things in the first film, which I guess was one of the things that turned me off of it.
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May 9, 2013 13:02
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Old Kirk refers to himself as a soldier, not a diplomat, in one of the old series episodes.
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May 9, 2013 13:08
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korusan posted:Old Kirk refers to himself as a soldier, not a diplomat, in one of the old series episodes. At the end of this new film, Kirk makes a point of noting he never truly understood what "Our mission - to seek out new life, and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before" meant, but after the events of the film he has come to see it as embracing the spirit of exploration and not militarization. He's rejecting Admiral Marcus' vision and embracing Admiral Pike's, and accepting Scotty's (and Spock's) earlier reminders that they're explorers, not soldiers. Oh yeah, another thing I loved is that they made a big deal out of how well Sulu acclimated to being in the Captain's chair, cementing early on that he's bound for bigger things.
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May 9, 2013 13:12
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Just got back from seeing this and it loving rocked. It's been a while since a movie gave me chills the whole way through. poo poo, I even clapped at the end, something I haven't done in a movie theatre since 2002. I felt the referencing of old Trek but then spinning things in a new way was turned up to 11 for this film compared to 2009. Noticeable increase of the moral dilemmas that I felt the first film needed more of, feels like the makers are taking feedback on board. Oh, and I recommend 3D for this one. Very well done and very immersive.
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May 9, 2013 13:22
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WeAreTheRomans posted:First Contact would not be canon It would be since all the stuff Riker and co did still happened. Also as Enterprise showed one of the Borg ships crashed and was later found by Archer and co.
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May 9, 2013 13:33
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I just saw it and thought it had too much focus on action and 'stuff happening' in a plot that was just servicable without enough of the character moments and building I liked the last movie for. The parts mirroring Wrath of Khan were the absolute worst pandering. The 'death' scene could have had it's own emotional resonance if they weren't just desperate to stroke nerd boners getting Spock to do the 'Khan!' yell. The conclusion/Spock-Kahn fight was really anticlimactic. I felt like it really needed something else to finish up on. Unless I missed it in a post-credit stinger, just fuckin' bring the Klingons in mad as hell for a cliffhanger. They were really left dangling. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 14:23 on May 9, 2013 |
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May 9, 2013 14:17
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MaterialConceptual posted:From what I'm hearing the new film is mostly about the conflict between exploration and militarism over how technology is used. What I'm wondering is whether the writers did much to establish that the crew of the Enterprise is actually interested in exploration. The new Kirk didn't really seem so interested in any of those things in the first film, which I guess was one of the things that turned me off of it. Star Fleet is interested in exploration in the same way the British and American Empires were and are. The discrepancy between their stated intent and actual actions is a primal part of the story.
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May 9, 2013 14:30
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Danger posted:Star Fleet is interested in exploration in the same way the British and American Empires were and are. The discrepancy between their stated intent and actual actions is a primal part of the story. Seems like more of a Babylon 5 plot than a Star Trek one (But then the admiralty in Trek was always a bunch of bumbling fools) but I guess it could work. I might give the movie a shot.
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May 9, 2013 14:43
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bobkatt013 posted:It would be since all the stuff Riker and co did still happened. Also as Enterprise showed one of the Borg ships crashed and was later found by Archer and co. If everything after the Kelvin changed, then Riker and co never went back in time and Q never introduced humanity to the Borg. Anything in Enterprise which required the temporal tampering of someone further down the time stream is thus no longer cannon.
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May 9, 2013 15:49
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Gyges posted:If everything after the Kelvin changed, then Riker and co never went back in time and Q never introduced humanity to the Borg. Anything in Enterprise which required the temporal tampering of someone further down the time stream is thus no longer cannon. In Star Trek when they do Time Travel what happened happened. Also if thats the case then how come Spock and Nero still exists?
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May 9, 2013 15:52
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MaterialConceptual posted:Seems like more of a Babylon 5 plot than a Star Trek one (But then the admiralty in Trek was always a bunch of bumbling fools) but I guess it could work. I might give the movie a shot. Well, I haven't seen the new movie. I was talking about the themes of Star Trek in general.
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May 9, 2013 16:01
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bobkatt013 posted:In Star Trek when they do Time Travel what happened happened. Except for when Picard maybe did/maybe didn't get stabbed through the heart, or the things that maybe did or didn't happen in "Yesterday's Enterprise", or anything else time travelly in "All Good things". Or Sisko visiting Jake through time. Star Trek canon and time travel is all hosed, so trying to reconcile the 2 is asking for trouble.
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May 9, 2013 16:21
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Senor Tron posted:Keith Urban nails McCoy. I didn't know they'd recast the role; that's certainly an interesting choice to make.
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May 9, 2013 16:23
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Except for when Picard maybe did/maybe didn't get stabbed through the heart, or the things that maybe did or didn't happen in "Yesterday's Enterprise", or anything else time travelly in "All Good things". Or Sisko visiting Jake through time. Two of those were q magic and The Sisko is half alien or god.
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May 9, 2013 16:24
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Gyges posted:If everything after the Kelvin changed, then Riker and co never went back in time and Q never introduced humanity to the Borg. Anything in Enterprise which required the temporal tampering of someone further down the time stream is thus no longer cannon. Branching timelines. That stuff did happen, but not in the current timeline. That is why you can have the Classic and JJTrek timelines working alongside each other. In pure Trek terms, JJTrek is just another mirror universe (of which Trek has a few, the most prominent being the one seen in TOS, DS9, and ENT). In the JJTrek timeline, everything that happened prior to Nero appearing also happened in the Classic Trek timeline. Nero is the branching point.
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May 9, 2013 17:23
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bobkatt013 posted:In Star Trek when they do Time Travel what happened happened. Also if thats the case then how come Spock and Nero still exists? Because if the initiating act which changes all time doesn't happen, then time doesn't change. Since time has changed the time travel event that tossed Spock and Nero back in time must happen in the past even if such an action no longer happens in the future. It's an inherent paradox of such time travel.
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May 9, 2013 17:30
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Alright, so Starfleet creates and trains a powerful man they think they can control for short-sighted ends. Sometime in the future he comes back to haunt them, commits acts of terrorism against foreign government buildings and caps it off by hijacking a spaceship and crashing it into a city. So, Khan is basically space Bin Laden? Too on the nose?
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May 9, 2013 17:33
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Captain Hilarious posted:Saw the midnight screening last night, have a few questions: I thought the idea was that Khan's blood in particular was special not the augments in general, though I guess that was never stated one way or the other. As to magic revival blood, they had to specifically preserve Kirk to keep brain activity. And by the TNG era at least they have the technology to do basically that anyway. This new timeline has already jumped the Federation's technology forward a good deal with interplanetary transporting and such anyway. Speaking of, the interplanetary transporter used a special dohicky that he left on earth. And Khan was dismissive of Spock's savagery earlier in the movie, he probably didn't think he had it in him  I liked the movie, good action, more "Star Trek-y," in a good way, than the last one. I want my new timeline tv series now.
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May 9, 2013 17:47
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Alright, so Starfleet creates and trains a powerful man they think they can control for short-sighted ends. Sometime in the future he comes back to haunt them, commits acts of terrorism against foreign government buildings and caps it off by hijacking a spaceship and crashing it into a city. It sounds like making Khan a minority would've been problematic in itself then.
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May 9, 2013 17:56
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Gyges posted:Because if the initiating act which changes all time doesn't happen, then time doesn't change. Since time has changed the time travel event that tossed Spock and Nero back in time must happen in the past even if such an action no longer happens in the future. It's an inherent paradox of such time travel. I know. I am using that as an example that some parts of First Contact did happen while others did not.
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May 9, 2013 18:20
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Prison Warden posted:I thought the idea was that Khan's blood in particular was special not the augments in general, though I guess that was never stated one way or the other. Khan and the other genetically enhanced humans had been created long before Starfleet existed, wasn't mentioned in this movie but rather in TOS / Star Trek 2 WeAreTheRomans posted:Except for when Picard maybe did/maybe didn't get stabbed through the heart, or the things that maybe did or didn't happen in "Yesterday's Enterprise", or anything else time travelly in "All Good things". Or Sisko visiting Jake through time. How can you forget about the best Star Trek time travel episode of all time  the DS9 Tribble episode MaterialConceptual posted:Seems like more of a Babylon 5 plot than a Star Trek one (But then the admiralty in Trek was always a bunch of bumbling fools) but I guess it could work. I might give the movie a shot. Star Trek 9 already had an Admiral who went against what the Federation and the Prime Directive stood for Teron D Amun fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 9, 2013 |
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May 9, 2013 18:48
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So, I just got back from seeing it in 2d in  Then I spent an hour writing a few thousand words about it and Firefox semi-crashed, so that's gone. Long story short, Khan is a pretty loving weak villain who relies entirely on the reputation he has with the fans because he's utterly loving useless in this. The exact opposite of intimidating. The ultimate in "Informed Attributes". They haven't written a movie with characters. They've written fanfic, badly. (For the record, I loved the last one except for the plot holes, and went into this one on spoiler lockdown. I knew the rumour from two years back that they were redoing TWOK, and discounted it as a distasteful load of poo poo the internet echo chamber convinced itself was true) But hey, the new warp trail visuals were very pretty, so there's that I guess.
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May 9, 2013 18:51
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Teron D Amun posted:Khan and the other genetically enhanced humans had been created long before Starfleet existed, wasn't mentioned in this movie but rather in TOS / Star Trek 2 They state in this flick that Khan was frozen for 300 years... in a movie that takes place in (if memory serves) 2250something. I guess those Cryotubes were invented for long haul space flight before JFK even announced the moon race in reality.
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May 9, 2013 18:56
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well yeah you have to keep in mind when TOS was first aired and the whole time travel/alternate universe split happened way after Khan & Co were frozen so they had to keep that bit in from TOS
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May 9, 2013 18:59
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Stonefish posted:They state in this flick that Khan was frozen for 300 years... in a movie that takes place in (if memory serves) 2250something. I guess those Cryotubes were invented for long haul space flight before JFK even announced the moon race in reality. It was in the mid-90s. I'm a little surprised they didn't update this since it's so ridiculous, but what're ya gonna do.
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May 9, 2013 19:03
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Are there any delightfully anachronistic Sabotage-esque needle drops in this film? This is of importance to me.
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May 9, 2013 19:18
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Hewlett posted:I didn't know they'd recast the role; that's certainly an interesting choice to make. Whoops, that's what happens when you write at 3am.
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May 9, 2013 19:28
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Man Loner posted:Oh, and I recommend 3D for this one. Very well done and very immersive. Glad to hear it. I can't change my tickets to a 2D show now so I'm glad to see that others are not reporting the issues with the 3D that some have. Probably just comes down to personal taste. Frankly I have never gone to a 3D movie and had any of the issues that some of the naysayers are mentioning so I'm guessing this stuff just sticks out more to some people.
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May 9, 2013 19:38
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Ville Valo posted:It was in the mid-90s. I'm a little surprised they didn't update this since it's so ridiculous, but what're ya gonna do. Khan was frozen in a time when Seinfeld and Baywatch were still on TV. Think about it.
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May 9, 2013 19:41
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Except for when Picard maybe did/maybe didn't get stabbed through the heart, or the things that maybe did or didn't happen in "Yesterday's Enterprise", or anything else time travelly in "All Good things". Or Sisko visiting Jake through time. Well except for the fact that Scotty specifically mentioned in the first movie that he accidentally killed Porthos, or at least one of his descendants.
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May 9, 2013 19:51
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Supercar Gautier posted:Are there any delightfully anachronistic Sabotage-esque needle drops in this film? This is of importance to me. Seconding this. I didn't like that it took a reboot of the franchise to acknowledge that music was made in the second half of the 20th Century. I get why TNG didn't want to use anything too contemporary, but come on, you can't tell me there wouldn't be at least one person on the Enterprise who geeks out about classic rock or something. e: For the record, I actually groaned the first time I saw JJTrek and got to the Sabotage part, but after I had time to reflect I acknowledged it as the nice cold splash in the face it was supposed to be. I still think the kid Kirk was obnoxious and terribly cast though. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 9, 2013 |
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May 9, 2013 19:52
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Hasters posted:Well except for the fact that Scotty specifically mentioned in the first movie that he accidentally killed Porthos, or at least one of his descendants. That dog will rematerialize at some point. We're just not entirely sure where.
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May 9, 2013 19:58
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DrNutt posted:Seconding this. I didn't like that it took a reboot of the franchise to acknowledge that music was made in the second half of the 20th Century. I get why TNG didn't want to use anything too contemporary, but come on, you can't tell me there wouldn't be at least one person on the Enterprise who geeks out about classic rock or something. There was also the fact that the song was an injoke to a Shatner flub.
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May 9, 2013 19:59
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The next movie had better have Karl Urban's McCoy chilling in his quarters smoking space weed and listening to dubstep.
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May 9, 2013 20:04
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Supercar Gautier posted:Are there any delightfully anachronistic Sabotage-esque needle drops in this film? This is of importance to me. Yup. Kirk still loves the Beastie Boys.
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May 9, 2013 20:13
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