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Chewbacca posted:I love how at the beginning Kirk brought up the fact that he hadn't lost one person under his command to Pike. Then later, when the splodey spaceship on spaceship action happens, we have extended shots of little crew members getting blown up and sucked into space. Not like it ruined the movie or anything but shouldn't that moment have been a bigger deal for Kirk? I guess his whole "crew as family" biz is more "bridge-crew as family."
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May 18, 2013 05:20
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PeterWeller posted:Fair enough on agreeing to disagree about that scene. It really affected me and brought tears to my eyes and didn't make me giggle one bit, but affective reactions are personal and nothing to argue about. I mean hell, they even specifically condemn drone warfare (the military is going to use advanced weaponry to bomb a place in the desert from a safe distance in order to kill a terrorist who's hiding there).
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May 18, 2013 05:20
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Siroc posted:I loved that guy. I really want to know more about him. Presumably it broke orbit at that point.
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May 18, 2013 05:21
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Am I crazy, or was there a title card at the beginning of the end credits dedicating the movie to our armed forces? I was getting up to leave and I only caught a glimpse of it, but I thought that's what I saw. I'm still not sure, though.
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May 18, 2013 05:23
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Am I crazy, or was there a title card at the beginning of the end credits dedicating the movie to our armed forces? I was getting up to leave and I only caught a glimpse of it, but I thought that's what I saw. I'm still not sure, though. Yes and this explains it better http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/05/16/star-trek-the-mission-continues-partnership/2177697/
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May 18, 2013 05:25
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Am I crazy, or was there a title card at the beginning of the end credits dedicating the movie to our armed forces? I was getting up to leave and I only caught a glimpse of it, but I thought that's what I saw. I'm still not sure, though. Yeah. It was definitely my least favorite thing about the movie. e: That article really clears things up; without the context it seems forced and obnoxious. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 05:28 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 05:25
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Thought so. It seemed pretty out of place and left me scratching my head 
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May 18, 2013 05:26
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Aatrek posted:Realized a really subtle DS9 reference this morning: the region of Kronos where Khan hides is Ketha province, the same place where General Martok comes from (the "Ketha lowlands"). I know that I'm probably too much of a nerd because my reaction was "Bullshit, Ketha isn't uninhabited, Martok's family is from there!"
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May 18, 2013 05:33
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I just saw it tonight and the more I think about it, the less I like it. The movie sets up interesting themes and conflicts, then squanders them all in the name to pandering to...Trekkies I guess? I'm not really sure who wanted to see that scene remade with absolutely no emotional weight to it at all. It's a shame too, because Chris Pine really nailed it when he lost command of the Enterprise and later when Pike was killed by Khan. computer parts posted:I mean hell, they even specifically condemn drone warfare (the military is going to use advanced weaponry to bomb a place in the desert from a safe distance in order to kill a terrorist who's hiding there).
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May 18, 2013 05:34
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One callback that actually would've improved the movie (slightly) imo is the last line, just copy it from Kirk's earlier closing ones: "Second star to the right, straight on 'til morning".
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May 18, 2013 05:42
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effectual posted:One callback that actually would've improved the movie (slightly) imo is the last line, just copy it from Kirk's earlier closing ones: "Second star to the right, straight on 'til morning". I half expected that, but that worked as his final order, not his first.
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May 18, 2013 05:43
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Thom12255 posted:McCoy only knew for sure that Khan's blood had those properties and needed the blood as soon as possible to save Kirk so saving Khan was the best and least risky option. The defrosting part I have no idea, it seems like a big hole and I don't even see the need for it to be, it's not like it was ever a plot point that they couldn't be defrosted, they just brought it up for no reason. Given how powerful Khan was in this film as opposed to Space Seed and TWOK, I honestly think a single throw away line could have helped set up WHY that's the case: Just have a quick reference to Khan's genetics and modern technology were a perfect match. Khan's was able to 'upgrade' his own superior physiology to even greater extremes by taking advantage of Starfleet medical technology that was unimaginable in his era to achieve a state closer to his idea of superhuman perfection: Stronger, faster, smarter, more immune to illness, etc. It could explain his uniqueness a bit as potentially a 'one-off' that hadn't had the chance to share those same traits with the others.
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May 18, 2013 05:43
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DrNutt posted:Yeah. It was definitely my least favorite thing about the movie. Considering that the emotional peak of the film is a beloved member of the services losing his/her life because of the literal machinations of not-Cheney, it's a very appropriate dedication.
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May 18, 2013 05:47
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effectual posted:One callback that actually would've improved the movie (slightly) imo is the last line, just copy it from Kirk's earlier closing ones: "Second star to the right, straight on 'til morning". I actually thought they were going to use "out there, thattaway" a la The Motion Picture.
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May 18, 2013 05:52
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All things considered, I think I would have liked the Admiral Marcus plot if he was less a gung-ho warmonger but someone who made a big mistake, was trying to cover his own rear end, digging himself deeper and trying to bury the Khan problem by throwing a known reckless Captain at him that he could then feed to the wolves, if need be, as a scapegoat to protect his own career and interests. We get a little hint of that, but it might have just been an act. Sure, it would have maybe would have made him seem weak instead of strong, but it would have done a lot more to show how manipulative and dangerous Khan was. and how the higher-ups in Starfleet were now pants-shittingly running for their reputations, careers, lives, etc.
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May 18, 2013 05:57
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I know it's a bit silly, but I'm already super excited for the Into Darkness Rifftrax. Saw the movie today for a second time, and I could almost hear the trio making jokes in certain scenes. (Spock preparing himself to die in the volcano) Come at me, bro! Admiral Robocop, no! I guess Mickey and Martha didn't work out.
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May 18, 2013 05:57
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MisterBibs posted:I guess Mickey and Martha didn't work out. That one might be a little too obscure. Although I really wish Noel had a larger part other than Section 31 flunky blackmailed into a suicide bomber.
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May 18, 2013 06:04
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Ensign_Ricky posted:That one might be a little too obscure. Although I really wish Noel had a larger part other than Section 31 flunky blackmailed into a suicide bomber. He is a bad tin dog
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May 18, 2013 06:05
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Just got back from seeing this. I have almost no experience with Star Trek except seeing a few episodes of TNG, and knowing internet memes about Wrath of Khan. For a person who doesn't know Star Trek will this came off as a really fun summer blockbuster with a great pace and great action scenes. Reading other's criticism it seems there are some valid complaints reusing old material instead of trying to do something new, but a lot of it just seems like ultra-specific nitpicks by people who are actively attempting to look for the most minor plot holes.
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May 18, 2013 06:06
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Why was Admiral Marcus able to shoot at a Starfleet ship, killing dozens of crew members, in plain sight of Earth? Shouldn't Starfleet have come to the Enterprise's rescue? I'm pretty sure murdering those under your command is against Starfleet regulations.
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May 18, 2013 06:09
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Ensign_Ricky posted:That one might be a little too obscure. Although I really wish Noel had a larger part other than Section 31 flunky blackmailed into a suicide bomber. I dunno, it seemed appropriate- all through his scenes, Mickey the Idiot seemed an appropriate way to describe him. Overall I think this was better than the spoilers had me fearing- the WoK-rehash stuff was weirdly redundant but it wasn't as big a part of the movie as I thought it would be. Had the right vibe- darker but still a fun space romp. Parts of it made me wonder if Abrams used a rough print as his "audition tape" for Star Wars VII, and if so, good idea.
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May 18, 2013 06:11
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Dr. Gaius Baltar posted:Why was Admiral Marcus able to shoot at a Starfleet ship, killing dozens of crew members, in plain sight of Earth? Shouldn't Starfleet have come to the Enterprise's rescue? I'm pretty sure murdering those under your command is against Starfleet regulations. He mentioned earlier Kirk was a traitor and he was going to stop him. Also Khan is on board the ship
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May 18, 2013 06:11
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Dr. Gaius Baltar posted:Why was Admiral Marcus able to shoot at a Starfleet ship, killing dozens of crew members, in plain sight of Earth? Shouldn't Starfleet have come to the Enterprise's rescue? I'm pretty sure murdering those under your command is against Starfleet regulations. He clearly declared that Kirk had gone rogue and teamed up with a terrorist. Remember, there's not much a fleet left after Nero destroyed it in the last movie. If it's going to end up an Admiral's word against a hotheaded barely out of the academy Captain's, and that Captain has a history of disobeying orders and breaking rules, WHO JUST DISOBEYED AN ORDER (shoot Kahn with torpedoes) I don't think anyone is going to assume that the Admiral is in the wrong...
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May 18, 2013 06:17
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I did not enjoy this movie. Same problems I've had with JJ Trek 09 were still present.
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May 18, 2013 06:18
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Maxwell Lord posted:Parts of it made me wonder if Abrams used a rough print as his "audition tape" for Star Wars VII, and if so, good idea.
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May 18, 2013 06:22
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Snak posted:WHO JUST DISOBEYED AN ORDER (shoot Khan with torpedoes) The impression I got was that the only person with any sort of authority who knew about that order was Admiral
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May 18, 2013 06:22
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I don't really get the 9/11 scene that happens right at the end of the movie either. It seems so flippant and pointless, like they just wanted to cram some more explosions into the movie. Is the idea like, they've learned to not overreact or give in to vengeance so when space 9/11 happens, no one will care?
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May 18, 2013 06:23
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Ash1138 posted:I hope not, because the movie felt bloated to me much like The Hobbit did. So if Abrams is now Peter Jackson 2.0... Really, what seemed too drawn-out for you? The action sequences were pretty extensive but that's basically the franchise bread-and-butter.
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May 18, 2013 06:24
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Ensign_Ricky posted:The impression I got was that the only person with any sort of authority who knew about that order was Admiral I also thought that Kirk went off "on his own". This mission was off the books so if Robocop wanted to kill him he had every right since he "stole" a Federation ship.
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May 18, 2013 06:25
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The end credits do dedicate the film to specifically our post 9/11 veterans. Because genocide is secondary to knocking buildings down, I guess. I was pretty dissatisfied with the film. Some things bugged me, and it's probably been brought up before but: - There was a strong moral theme of wrongdoings compounding itself, with an emphasis on lying and deception. Spock tells the truth about something which eventually works out for the best. The vilians' deceptions bring about disaster. Scotty and Spock both suffer for refusing to compromise their truth, but it ultimately works out for the best. It would have been surprisingly good filmmaking, except for the scene where Spock lies (by omission) about the torpedoes and saves the day. - My wife brought this up, and I agree enitrely, that you can't specifically villify eugenics (divorced from white supremacy) while depicting the apex of human potential as more-or-less what Hitler expected. It also missed a chance to one-up ToS and cast a Mongolian actor as Khan. - There were a lot of cues that the creative team didn't really get ToS. It's the same feel I get from some of the new Dr Who episodes, where there's a few Easter Eggs but generally misses the point. But there was still a lot to like there. People bitch about Nimoy's cameo, but he knocked it out of the park when you consider the broader context: Young Spock asks how the encounter leading to his death will turn out. Nimoy-Spock is in a position to alter the outcome, but lets his younger self find his own path anyway and I wonder if the sanitized "spoiler-free" conversation was what lead to the unexpected outcome. It was an uncommonly great scene, and possibly one of the better all-time Spock scenes. It recalled one of his most significant character moments, asked "would you do it again?" and affirms that he would.
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May 18, 2013 06:25
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As a Star Trek fan to the extent of watching TNG, DS9, and VOY reruns pretty consistently over the course of my younger years, I have to say I did not like all the references, call backs, and "homages" to the classic movies and shows. Section 31 obviously gave them a great plot point to work with but everything else was unnecessary. You didn't even need Khan to be in the movie, Benedict could've just been S:31's pet project genetically engineered using samples from Khan's recovered body to make a new superhuman if they wanted a reference to WoK without basing the entire plot around it. I have a friend who knows almost nothing about Star Trek other then seeing the first JJ Abrams movie, and he said he'd see it and tell me what he thought, so maybe as a stand alone move without a frame of reference other then Star Trek 2009 it a good movie, but I as far as I'm concerned this is proof that after every good ST movie comes a poo poo one.
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May 18, 2013 06:29
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pentyne posted:As a Star Trek fan to the extent of watching TNG, DS9, and VOY reruns pretty consistently over the course of my younger years, I have to say I did not like all the references, call backs, and "homages" to the classic movies and shows. Section 31 obviously gave them a great plot point to work with but everything else was unnecessary. You didn't even need Khan to be in the movie, Benedict could've just been S:31's pet project genetically engineered using samples from Khan's recovered body to make a new superhuman if they wanted a reference to WoK without basing the entire plot around it. That makes the concept that much more complicated, though. He's not just a genetically engineered superhuman from the past, but a clone of a genetically engineered superhuman? Why the cloning? Why add a step? And why would a clone be concerned about the fate of people he never knew, i.e. Khan's shipmates?
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May 18, 2013 06:30
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moths posted:
"A lie?" "An omission."
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May 18, 2013 06:31
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Am I the only one thinking that Khan only started tearing the Enterprise a new one after getting his Superfriends back because Kirk had ordered Scotty to stun him?
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May 18, 2013 06:33
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PeterWeller posted:Fair enough on agreeing to disagree about that scene. It really affected me and brought tears to my eyes and didn't make me giggle one bit, but affective reactions are personal and nothing to argue about. Yeah, I can see what you mean. I guess the sad truth is that what I really want is a 20 minute argument about the ethical ramifications of killing a giant space crystal monster or something. I'll never know true happiness. As for the scene in question, I'm actually totally with you on the scene itself. It's just the Khan yell that I hated, mostly because it destroyed the immersion the scene proceeding it had earned from me.
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May 18, 2013 06:39
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MisterBibs posted:Am I the only one thinking that Khan only started tearing the Enterprise a new one after getting his Superfriends back because Kirk had ordered Scotty to stun him? Yeah, I think the film pretty clearly established that he was going to betray them regardless. That was driven home by the whole Spock calling him out on being a literal space-Hitler during the viewscreen chat.
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May 18, 2013 06:41
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MisterBibs posted:Am I the only one thinking that Khan only started tearing the Enterprise a new one after getting his Superfriends back because Kirk had ordered Scotty to stun him? I think that Khan just knows a dangerous opponent when he sees one and wanted to get rid of Kirk and his ship before while he had the chance. You can handwave him beaming kirk and friends back to the enterprise by the fact that it was just convenient to do, coordinants already in the transporter etc and then he wouldn't have to crush their heads individually. Incidentally, Khan crushing Admiral Marcus's head off-camera is conveyed amazingly by the other character's reactions to it. Carol's scream, coupled with Kirks head tilting "holy loving poo poo did that just happen" look are very effective. To be honest, the thing that bugs me the most in the entire film (not necessarily the biggest flaw) is that when Khan reveals his identity he just says "My name is Khan" and it's all super dramatic. It's nice that Kirk doesn't recognize the name or give a poo poo, but why does he only give his first name? It almost feels like they just thought "the audience knows who Khan is, we'll just call him that". I really expected him to say "my name is Khan Noonien Singh". Longer names naturally make for a more dramatic delivery, and Cumberbatch just saying "Khan" felt really odd.
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May 18, 2013 06:42
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Maxwell Lord posted:Why the cloning? Why add a step? And why would a clone be concerned about the fate of people he never knew, i.e. Khan's shipmates? It makes a more sence to use stored samples and reference DNA than RoboAdmiral hunting down the space seed in the wake of nine-evulcan. Also, I was disappointed that Cumberbatch wasn't playing Colonel Green or part of the Q continuum. Tying Gary Mitchel to the Q would have been amazing. When they got to the big cube space station, I thought we were going to learn that the Borg originated as a black-ops Starfleet operation that came back to haunt us, along the lines of V'ger and NOMAD. The direction they finally went was more retread than risky, with predictable results.
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May 18, 2013 06:43
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Snak posted:I think that Khan just knows a dangerous opponent when he sees one and wanted to get rid of Kirk and his ship before while he had the chance. You can handwave him beaming kirk and friends back to the enterprise by the fact that it was just convenient to do, coordinants already in the transporter etc and then he wouldn't have to crush their heads individually. Incidentally, Khan crushing Admiral Marcus's head off-camera is conveyed amazingly by the other character's reactions to it. Carol's scream, coupled with Kirks head tilting "holy loving poo poo did that just happen" look are very effective. To be honest, the thing that bugs me the most in the entire film (not necessarily the biggest flaw) is that when Khan reveals his identity he just says "My name is Khan" and it's all super dramatic. It's nice that Kirk doesn't recognize the name or give a poo poo, but why does he only give his first name? It almost feels like they just thought "the audience knows who Khan is, we'll just call him that". I really expected him to say "my name is Khan Noonien Singh". Longer names naturally make for a more dramatic delivery, and Cumberbatch just saying "Khan" felt really odd. Khan saying his first name is a moment that is more important to the audience than to the characters, which is why it was written that particular way.
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May 18, 2013 06:44
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Maxwell Lord posted:Really, what seemed too drawn-out for you? The action sequences were pretty extensive but that's basically the franchise bread-and-butter.
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May 18, 2013 06:47
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