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Maxwell Lord posted:Really, what seemed too drawn-out for you? The action sequences were pretty extensive but that's basically the franchise bread-and-butter. This movie needed more 15 minute scenes of them just showing the Enterprise from every angle.
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May 18, 2013 06:48
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bobkatt013 posted:This movie needed more 15 minute scenes of them just showing the Enterprise from every angle. This, but unironically. It looks drat good and I'm not ashamed.
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May 18, 2013 06:51
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Enterprise exterior shots. More or less gratuitous than Alice Eve's underwear?
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May 18, 2013 06:52
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^^Less, because I would've loved more shots of the latter.  Oh, I also really liked the design of the one Klingon we saw. I don't think any of the shows ever depicted one with his ridges pierced, it was pretty hardcore. Even if the helmets did make them look like loving Cylons.
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May 18, 2013 06:53
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I kind of hated Star Trek 2009, and based on all the whining and nitpicking I was fully expecting to hate this one too. Instead, I loved it! My main problem with ST09 was that the overall plot was basically "Here's this new bad guy. He's doing bad things. Let's kill him! OK, roll credits." (If anyone wants to tell me I'm missing something there, I'm willing to listen.) This one, on the other hand, was surprisingly explicit in its condemnation of the darker, war-like side of Starfleet. It reminded me of what I liked about the TV shows - that these people are reflecting on their own choices, and always striving to become better. (The fact that it did so without involving any time travel is also a bonus. Enterprise's "Temporal Cold War" made me sick of all time travel stories, and ST09 didn't reverse that a bit.) I'm sure there are plot holes, continuity contradictions, and all that stuff. There always is, with this series. Right now, having received the first dose of good, live-action Star Trek in years, I just don't feel like dissecting the movie for flaws yet. I'm too excited right now - Star Trek is back!
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May 18, 2013 07:01
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bobkatt013 posted:This movie needed more 15 minute scenes of them just showing the Enterprise from every angle. Every time the Enterprise rises up out of something (Titan's atmosphere, an alien sea, or a cloud layer on Earth) it is like sweet music to my eyes. octoroon posted:This, but unironically. It looks drat good and I'm not ashamed.  moths posted:Enterprise exterior shots. More or less gratuitous than Alice Eve's underwear? Scotty posted:She is one well-endowed lady. I'd like to get my hands on her "ample nacelles," if you pardon the engineering parlance. 
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May 18, 2013 07:02
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bobkatt013 posted:This movie needed more 15 minute scenes of them just showing the Enterprise from every angle. Nah, if that happened, we'd end up with TMP again, and I think we can all agree that none of us want that to happen. (I also love Enterprise exterior shots, but TMP took it a little too far.)
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May 18, 2013 07:06
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Nah, if that happened, we'd end up with TMP again, and I think we can all agree that none of us want that to happen. That is what I was getting at. I was mocking the person saying the action scenes were too drawn out. If you want to see drawn out watch TMP. I still TMP no matter how much ship porn and slow it is.
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May 18, 2013 07:10
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Just got back from seeing it and all I can say is "...ehhh" It's not the worst Star Trek movie, to be sure (in fact, I'm downloading the Rifftrax for Nemesis to act as a palate cleanser). It just feels like this is such a waste. And this is what, the fifth Star Trek movie where vengeance is a major theme or motivation? I'm half expecting Terrence Carson to come smashing through a door and screaming incoherently while ripping a red shirt in half.
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May 18, 2013 07:29
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One more thing to add, the music is phenomenal. The main theme is just  . I enjoyed the credit music too. That was the redone TOS music right? Spoiler'd... because it was a nice surprise.
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May 18, 2013 07:52
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der juicen posted:One more thing to add, the music is phenomenal. The main theme is just Yeah, it was the same as in '09 Trek.
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May 18, 2013 08:01
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Yeah, it was the same as in '09 Trek. The end credits? I must have missed that in '09.
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May 18, 2013 08:15
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The movie has my single favorite thing in all of Sci Fi, and the only time it's acknowledged. Faster than light travel produces Cherenkov Radiation, it's the blueish glow around nuclear reactors. Anything moving faster than light produces it, and they handled it wonderfully. It brought a tear to my eye to see that perfect color done realistically.
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May 18, 2013 08:34
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7thBatallion posted:The movie has my single favorite thing in all of Sci Fi, and the only time it's acknowledged. Faster than light travel produces Cherenkov Radiation, it's the blueish glow around nuclear reactors. Anything moving faster than light produces it, and they handled it wonderfully. It brought a tear to my eye to see that perfect color done realistically. Personally I love the noise the Abrams-class ships make when they go into warp, that weird suction popping noise like you'd expect something teleporting in an atmosphere to make as opposed..to..the..vacuum..of space....
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May 18, 2013 08:49
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bobkatt013 posted:This movie needed more 15 minute scenes of them just showing the Enterprise from every angle. I actually enjoyed this...they treat the Enterprise with a sense of awe...kind of like a God...it really makes me want to see Abhram's Star Wars to see how he treats the Millenium Falcon
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May 18, 2013 09:01
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Man, the hardcore trekkies are going to have a field day with this one. If you can't enjoy a movie like this for NOT MY TREK reasons, man, you need to take a long, hard look at the joy in your life (or lack thereof). I think it was really well done, if a bit over-actiony. I have but a few small nitpicks walking out, such as the slightly...off pacing and the scene where Alice Eve is stripping down to her underwear for some inexplicable reason. Basically, I have fewer issues with this film than I might with an above-average episode of Star Trek. Overall, as a huge Trek nerd, great movie with a fantastic bit of relevance added at the end. Someone should compile a list of the little background nods to Trek past, such as Praxis being blown in half.
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May 18, 2013 09:03
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Gau posted:Someone should compile a list of the little background nods to Trek past, such as Praxis being blown in half. Wait, where was that? Also, Praxis wasn't blown up until just before Kirk and Co. retired (except Sulu).
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May 18, 2013 09:05
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Wait, where was that? Also, Praxis wasn't blown up until just before Kirk and Co. retired (except Sulu). When they showed Kronos, you can see a broken moon in orbit. I know the timing is off, but maybe the Klingons had their crisis earlier in this timeline?
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May 18, 2013 09:12
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Gau posted:When they showed Kronos, you can see a broken moon in orbit. I know the timing is off, but maybe the Klingons had their crisis earlier in this timeline? Well then Marcus had nothing to worry about because that would've left the Klingon Empire with only 50 years left to live. Waaaaay to drop the ball, JJ.
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May 18, 2013 09:13
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Well then Marcus had nothing to worry about because that would've left the Klingon Empire with only 50 years left to live. Perhaps this Klingon Empire is not a blatant metaphor for the Soviet Union and instead spends prudently on its military, allowing for an environmental and economic recovery program without the Federation's assistance. Or maybe everyone expects them to do the other thing and invade the Federation or Romulans to save their Empire.
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May 18, 2013 09:20
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der juicen posted:One more thing to add, the music is phenomenal. The main theme is just I like how the Star Trek fanfare plays right as Kirk is giving the ending monologue, I think it's the first time we've heard it in the Abrams movie. I loved this film, it encapsulates my favorite things about Star Trek. Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto are very good at this acting thing and Peter Weller and Benedict Cumberbatch are great antagonists. One of my favorite things is how they decided to use color to convey tone in the film. The Nibiru planet at the start is full of RICH color because it's supposed to be an untouched planet, wild and untainted by the Federation. There's a lot of bright reds, yellows, blues, and whites in the film that promptly disappear once we get to the film proper and spend the rest of our time on Earth or on a Federation starship which are largely gray and muted. To me it suggests a kind of complacency in how people deal with living in a militarized society. I think it's interesting that they chose to clad the Starfleet Admirals in a kind of monochrome scheme and the death of Pike and Marcus represent a kind of death of the militarized Starfleet (and yes I do realize those costumes are basically rehashed TMP ones). Even Marcus' ship is just a blacker and grayer version of the Enterprise, and with the demise of both it allows Kirk and party to pave their way towards a more colorful and peaceful future, one that's as bright and as colorful (and hopeful/not cynical) like TOS itself.
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May 18, 2013 09:24
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Gau posted:When they showed Kronos, you can see a broken moon in orbit. I know the timing is off, but maybe the Klingons had their crisis earlier in this timeline? Either they over mined sooner to make up for the fleet they lost (mentioned in 09'), or as part of the arms race caused by Nero showing up with a massive monster ship. There's also the deleted scenes which show they had the Nerada for like twenty years, so they probably mined the poo poo out of Praxis with that. I think the implication is it didn't ruin Kronos this time, just rendered some of the regions uninhabitable (like the one we saw) 1st AD posted:I think it's interesting that they chose to clad the Starfleet Admirals in a kind of monochrome scheme and the death of Pike and Marcus represent a kind of death of the militarized Starfleet (and yes I do realize those costumes are basically rehashed TMP ones). Even Marcus' ship is just a blacker and grayer version of the Enterprise, and with the demise of both it allows Kirk and party to pave their way towards a more colorful and peaceful future, one that's as bright and as colorful (and hopeful/not cynical) like TOS itself. The crew on the Vengeance are wearing grey/dark uniforms too Forum Actuary fucked around with this message at 09:35 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 09:28
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Forum Actuary posted:I think the implication is it didn't ruin Kronos this time, just rendered some of the regions uninhabitable (like the one we saw) So by extension, Martok will never exist.  Bastards. 
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May 18, 2013 09:35
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Forum Actuary posted:Either they over mined sooner to make up for the fleet they lost (mentioned in 09'), or as part of the arms race caused by Nero showing up with a massive monster ship. Or, when Nero retook the Narada he left a red matter parting gift behind to thank the Klingons for his prison term. Hard to say, at least over-mining as a disaster cause is easy to visualize happening at a different time-frame. quote:I think the implication is it didn't ruin Kronos this time, just rendered some of the regions uninhabitable (like the one we saw) Dunno how "canon" I'd call it, but I rather liked the Klingon Academy game suggesting the real reason the Klingons over-mined Praxis (and needed Federation help to recover) was that a recent civil war had wrecked their other energy resources. Obviously of dubious validity, but given the plot was pretty good (and we got more of Chang and Gorkon via their STVI actors) I like it for my vision of Trek at least. Assuming that's the case, Praxis blowing up might have been dealt with by the Klingons without help this time since they had alternative energy sources, but minus said Federation help they didn't do as good a job. Ensign_Ricky posted:So by extension, Martok will never exist. Hate to say it, but given how many obvious subtle shifts (and several massive ones like Vulcan) have occurred from the original timeline, odds are pretty good a lot of TNG-era folks will never be born depending on just how far the butterfly effect twists things. Or, if you prefer a more optimistic reading, Martok's family has a reasonable chance of having survived but moving somewhere else. I suppose given how much "destiny" has been batter about with regard to the Enterprise crew, maybe the timeline is less shifted than it looks like.
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May 18, 2013 10:09
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MadDogMike posted:Hate to say it, but given how many obvious subtle shifts (and several massive ones like Vulcan) have occurred from the original timeline, odds are pretty good a lot of TNG-era folks will never be born depending on just how far the butterfly effect twists things. Or, if you prefer a more optimistic reading, Martok's family has a reasonable chance of having survived but moving somewhere else. I suppose given how much "destiny" has been batter about with regard to the Enterprise crew, maybe the timeline is less shifted than it looks like. Oh I know. My personal feelings re the Khan-twist (Are we still spoiling that?) is that with how Cumberbatch's voice sounds, I would've made him Jean-Luc Harrison, or some such, making him Picard's (grand)father or something. That would have been a rather surprising twist. Is that a crazy idea? Because I think he really sounds like Sir Patrick of Stewart.
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May 18, 2013 10:20
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Oh I know. My personal feelings re the Khan-twist (Are we still spoiling that?) is that with how Cumberbatch's voice sounds, I would've made him Jean-Luc Harrison, or some such, making him Picard's (grand)father or something. That would have been a rather surprising twist. Is that a crazy idea? Because I think he really sounds like Sir Patrick of Stewart. Given the amount of times this movie attempts to elbow you in the ribs and go "hmmm, HMMMM?," I was expecting one of the other captains and/or their first officers in that briefing room to have been named "Picard," since I remember an episode where JL says the family had always had a lengthy space-faring history, starting with a great-grandfather of his being amongst the first to colonize Mars in the very early 2100s, and this seems to take place mid-2200s.
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May 18, 2013 10:32
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CPFortest posted:Khan saying his first name is a moment that is more important to the audience than to the characters, which is why it was written that particular way. Trying to reduce what's wrong with the film down to the fewest number of words, and this is currently the winner.
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May 18, 2013 10:42
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I take the Praxis debris as the reason why there isn't a patrol orbiting the Klingon Homeworld...they would be continuously dodging moon debris...I was disappointed there was no classic Klingon theme...there where so many call-backs to the other movies this should have happened
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May 18, 2013 10:47
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All the production stuff in the movie works beatifully: sound, visual design, make-up, only the Bad Enterprise is kinda hacky and lazy with how gloomy it is (and the line about the minimal crew - is it common in the Trek universe? I thought that the military ships require more "sailors" than the exlorer/science ships like Enterprise). All actors are good in this (Karl Urban 4 life), but I couldn't give two shits about any of the characters they play. Character arcs as they are in this movie could barely fill the single episode of the TV show and nobody faces any worthy psychological or ideological challenge, only purely physical ones. A serious Khaaaan reference followed by 9/11 imagery followed by Tribble in a serious scene - thats like a bad taste three-punch combo. A new Plinkett video is worth waiting for I guess? MrTpug posted:I actually enjoyed this...they treat the Enterprise with a sense of awe...kind of like a God...it really makes me want to see Abhram's Star Wars to see how he treats the Millenium Falcon I thought that the shuttle that Kirk and co use to land on a Klingon planet was a deliberate Millenium Falcon reference, especially that the crew is in smuggler disguise and they fly through the narrow passage to shake off the tail. Considering the "HEY LOOK INDIANA JONES OPENING" in this one and the amount of unnecessary fanwank, episode VII is going to be a Super 8-style hollow embarassment.
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May 18, 2013 10:54
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The reveal probably would have worked better if he was just John Harrison. I think that could have worked maybe even better within the context of the film. They don't thaw out Khan, they thaw out one of the other random augments. It could have given a little better insight into Khan's cult of personality. Harrison is as Kirk and Spock: A son who has their most important parental/mentor-figure taken away from them and deals with it in his own way. Harrison isn't Khan, he's not the great man. Beneath all his so-called superiority, he's still in the shadow of Khan's greatness, even in a frozen state. He isn't angry at this, but it could have made him bolder, seeing himself as the lone instrument who can bring about the return of true leader and the rest of his kind. He's not only operating to save his family but he's doing what he does to do what Kirk cannot do: Bring his lost father(-figure) back. Also, to go back the JJTrek 1, I still thought Chekov and Spock could have had a bit of a bonding relationship. Kirk and Spock are friends, but make Chekov sort of like Spock's little brother who's eager to please and impress his superior. When Chekov fails to save Spock's mom, his failure could have scarred him emotionally, he outwardly is troubled by it more than Spock can even display. Eventually have Spock come along to coolly and logically reassure him of his skills later in the film when he's needed again. This forms a bit of a connection between him and Spock, where the latter could have found a certain logical kinship in Chekov's natural mathematics abilities, seeing potential in mentoring him for more advanced applications of his talents. Spock becomes to Chekov what Pike is to Kirk. When Chekov has to don a red shirt, it's a hint that he's going to die. He's still in Engineering, so eager to please, so eager to not disappoint, still thinking he didn't do enough to prevent this from happening, he's the one to jump into the reactor to save the ship. When the crew finds Chekov dying, it's unexpected and maybe more painful. He's the most innocent among them, the most likeable and gentle among them. A role reversal to the rest of the themes of losing father/mentor-figures, mentor Spock is now losing his trusting pupil. Spock is witnessing a pupil putting the philosophies of 'needs of the many' to their ultimate conclusion, and it's killing them both. Also, being Chekov, there's the potential of him ACTUALLY dying because he's not one of the other higher ranking crewmen/actors in the films.
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May 18, 2013 11:04
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e: Wrong thread, sorry.
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May 18, 2013 12:00
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Just got back from second viewing. Quick notes: The Enterprise warps away from Qo'noS/The Venegance, Khan says they're not safe, Carol runs to the bridge, they're knocked out of warp right next to Earth. Total travel time between the Klingon Homeworld and Earth: two minutes. Although it's quite a lot longer on the way there. I'm fairly certain the much-mocked bit where they interrupt the scene between Kirk and Khan in sickbay to talk about McCoy and the Tribble was inserted later on. Take it out and the bits to either side stitch together well. Probably blame test audiences. People have been saying they think this heavily set up a Klingon-war sequel, but I'm still seeing them setting up a 'totally alien stuff happening out there in the unknown nowhere near the Federation or Earth' at the end with them embarking on their Five-Year-Mission. I'd prefer that, though, so maybe I'm reading into it. Gosh San Francisco getting flattened was narratively pointless. It really just feels like JJ wanted to crash a starship into a city and couldn't be bothered making the event integral to the plot in any way. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:40 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 12:37
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MikeJF posted:Just got back from second viewing. Quick notes: One thing I have disliked about both the Trek films have been very inconsistent travel time issues/distance issues. It probably doesn't bother most viewers but it's sort of annoying to me because it makes some things feel like they SHOULD be more important into nothing. UNLESS, there's some version of time dilation going on where perhaps several days of 'real time' has passed for the universe, but the crews feel only minutes go by in warp? Either that, or the Marcus Ship's superwarp drive was able to go at faster than normal speeds and could sweep up the Enterprise in it's warp corridor, bringing them to Earth a lot quicker than the Enterprise would have been capable of on its own.
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May 18, 2013 12:52
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Just saw this. I'm a casual Trek watcher who hates every crew post-Original Series and I saw it with my sister, who had never seen any Star Trek. We both really enjoyed it. Did anyone else notice that the Admiral's plan was the same as the plot to Demolition Man? I also wish there was more exploration and trekking and less terrorism.
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May 18, 2013 12:52
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bobkatt013 posted:This movie needed more 15 minute scenes of them just showing the Enterprise from every angle. It also needed more close up shots of Benedict Cumberbatch's cheekbones.
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May 18, 2013 12:53
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fatherboxx posted:(and the line about the minimal crew - is it common in the Trek universe? I thought that the military ships require more "sailors" than the exlorer/science ships like Enterprise). It is actually. In the last movie you have a bunch of cadets who get graduated early to crew the brand new flagship (among others) because Starfleet has basically no-one available after some big event (Starfleet - Klingon war? I can't remember exactly) In regards to the movie itself, it's going to poo poo me to tears if every movie has a "better ring Leonard Nimoy up to see how he fixed this problem in his timeline" scene. It just took me right out of the movie for some reason.
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May 18, 2013 13:17
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Rudager posted:In the last movie you have a bunch of cadets who get graduated early to crew the brand new flagship (among others) because Starfleet has basically no-one available after some big event (Starfleet - Klingon war? I can't remember exactly) The majority of the real fleet was on deployment somewhere else about some brouhaha 'situation' elsewhere, so they shipped up cadets to the ships that were in for a service or hadn't been launched yet to send to Vulcan. The real fleet is still around, they were too far out to get involved. All the cadets die, though.
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May 18, 2013 13:20
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tractor fanatic posted:I don't really get the 9/11 scene that happens right at the end of the movie either. It seems so flippant and pointless, like they just wanted to cram some more explosions into the movie. Is the idea like, they've learned to not overreact or give in to vengeance so when space 9/11 happens, no one will care? Yay, we saved the crew! Well many of them at least. Oh no, we failed to stop 9/11x20. And the movie fails to reflect on that because it was stupid.
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May 18, 2013 13:24
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Looking back now, the whole "I've never lost a crew member while I was Captain thing" is pretty ridiculous considering I now remember at least 2 who died on Vulcan trying to stop the drill and a bunch more who got sucked out into space when they go head to head with Nero shortly after that.
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May 18, 2013 13:29
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moths posted:There was a strong moral theme of wrongdoings compounding itself, with an emphasis on lying and deception. Spock tells the truth about something which eventually works out for the best. The vilians' deceptions bring about disaster. Scotty and Spock both suffer for refusing to compromise their truth, but it ultimately works out for the best. It would have been surprisingly good filmmaking, [spoiler]except for the scene where Spock lies (by omission) about the torpedoes and saves the day. I actually rather liked that scene with spock and the torpedoes. It shows Spocks growth from someone who can only strictly follow regulations and rules to one who can bend (though not quite break) them at times for the greater good. Spock is still the voice of reason and morality for Kirk, but he's realized, just as Spock Prime did as time went on, that a little bit of cowboy attitude and recklessness are necessary to protect your crew and others.
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