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1st AD posted:It's pretty silly to point out the new film for moments that "take you out of the story because they're ridiculous" (something lots of people have said about this film) when all of the previous Star Trek movies are chock full of moments that are much much worse. Especially the ones that are universally loved by the hardcore fans. But Kirk being a big ham happens far away from the emotional centerpiece of WoK, whereas in this one it happens during it.
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May 18, 2013 20:11
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tractor fanatic posted:But Kirk being a big ham happens far away from the emotional centerpiece of WoK, whereas in this one it happens during it. That just makes his point for him.
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May 18, 2013 20:18
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1st AD posted:It's pretty silly to point out the new film for moments that "take you out of the story because they're ridiculous" (something lots of people have said about this film) when all of the previous Star Trek movies are chock full of moments that are much much worse. Especially the ones that are universally loved by the hardcore fans. I think I mentioned this before, but honestly it was the body language and camera work of the moment that bothered me more than the line itself. You can sell a hammy line if your face and motions and the angle of the shot can entrance the audience enough to take it seriously. When the director and actor are being as hammy or more hammy than the writer, you create a ham singularity which even detonating the warp core won't get you away from.
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May 18, 2013 20:27
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THE ENTERPRISE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY What a baffling and mental film. The story - as before - was a tremendous pile of arse, but the film was so rammed full of fantastic character moments that it was almost hard to mind. They made much better use of the ensemble than before (beyond Uhura's sadly diminished strength). I think a lot of Trek fans take it as a given that Trek is about the great relationship of the main crew, but you only ever really get small moments or fractions of it in all other Trek; and even that is disproportionate - it's mostly the TOS films. This film keeps them coming thick and fast and I love it for that. You still sense they're a young crew and I think they've made more of the concept of Spock in these last two films than all the original films did. That's a shame, because Nimoy rules, but I am loving Quinto in this role. Even Pegg - who I am not a fan of at all - really worked for me in this film. The actual plot itself felt flimsy as hell but the charisma of the main cast never lets it drag. I'd love to see what that crew could do in a good film. And it's lovely to have humour in a Star Trek film without it being a massively choreographed HERE COMES THE JOKE trailer moment. Remember when all we had was Scotty walking into a bulkhead or Worf having spots? Do you remember that? Urgh. Also like the first one, the Production Design is split riiight down the middle. Although it's not changed much from the first one, the bridge of the Enterprise, especially when you have those gold, red and blue uniforms together, delights me. It just looks so good. It's so bold and exciting. But the USS Legoship was one of the worst spaceship concepts I've ever seen - both in terms of the tone of the film and also on a cinematic/design level, and the Engineering location was just as bad this time around as the first film. The Engineering room of the Enterprise is a staple, guys, build a proper loving set. The exterior of the warp core was ridiculous, but once inside we were greeted with a great swooshy pulp sci-fi construct which was fun. More of that please. Even the new Enterprise shape is growing on me. The earth offices, the Starfleet places - including the Strangelove design reference - were all nicely done. Much less pedestrian than previous "earth" locations from the other TOS films (which tended to be redressed TNG sets). Furniture, colour schemes, prop dressing - all nicely done. They've toned down the lens flares, which is criminal because I adored the dynamism that they brought to the shots and people only ever pointed them out to feel clever. They were a brilliant cinematic construct and their absence is sorely missed by me. That said, and I noticed this on a rewatch of the first, it is SO NICE to have grown up camera movement and blocking in a Star Trek film. The ones that proceeded the new ones never lost their TV-level blocking and direction - Generations was bold enough to have hand held camera movement and verité zooms at one point but that was as brave as it got. This feels huge and swooshy and never stops being enjoyable. I got some real 9/11 vibes from that scene on a gut level, but I haven't worked out whether that was clever or merely exploitative. Robocop was wasted but I'm so glad Pike was in this. He's a brilliant actor and I would watch a film that developed his relationship with Kirk that way forever and ever. The requisite beauty shots of the Enterprise are there but in the most utterly baffling ways (if you've seen it you'll know). The whole (big spoiler) _____Kahn_______ thing is... odd and I don't really know what to make of it. He was a more serviceable villain than Nero but it still didn't really feel like a particularly well thought out plan. It's odd because it's a film that will make Trek purists poo poo their spleen out in fury, yet it's more Trek than half the Trek out there. I would watch this over all of Voyager or Enterprise or half the TOS films all day long, and I *love* Star Trek. 7/10, but that will probably decrease on second viewing.
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May 18, 2013 20:35
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But didn't the inconsistent use of technology and travel times drive you mad? How could you ignore such affronts to realistic starship simulation? edit. VVV Spoiler dependent joke: http://i.imgur.com/Dmf8aAH.jpg Maarak fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 21:04
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You love Star Trek so much but still spell _____KHAN_____ incorrectly? 
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May 18, 2013 21:04
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Aatrek posted:You love Star Trek so much but still spell _____KHAN_____ incorrectly? Nerd cred: depleted Maarak posted:But didn't the inconsistent use of technology and travel times drive you mad? How could you ignore such affronts to realistic starship simulation? What I love about JJ Trek is that it is so clearly the result of someone who didn't watch much Trek, watching TOS as an adult and running with all the madness that it offers, completely unrestricted by TNG era TECHNICAL CANON DATA. I mean I love TNG, but it is so nice to be free of it. Please give me a proper Engineering set and stop trying so hard with contrived plots and let me enjoy the colours and the quips and the swooshiness and the adventures and I'll be a fan until the main cast are all 85.
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May 18, 2013 21:15
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echoplex posted:I got some real 9/11 vibes from that scene on a gut level, but I haven't worked out whether that was clever or merely exploitative. It almost felt redundant to me, as if they had an extra $4.5m in special effects budget so they thought "well, might as well throw a [I don't know how much I can spoil] starship wreck in there too". It came out of nowhere.
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May 18, 2013 21:17
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Star Trek Into Catgirls would also be an appropriate title.
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May 18, 2013 21:22
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Tequila Bob posted:My main problem with ST09 was that the overall plot was basically "Here's this new bad guy. He's doing bad things. Let's kill him! OK, roll credits." (If anyone wants to tell me I'm missing something there, I'm willing to listen.) This one, on the other hand, was surprisingly explicit in its condemnation of the darker, war-like side of Starfleet. It reminded me of what I liked about the TV shows - that these people are reflecting on their own choices, and always striving to become better. I actually also had this problem with ST09. The genocidal villain is completely defeated, on the ropes, at your mercy, screaming at you "What I would like best of all is for you to kill me right now!", and you... do exactly what he tells you to do? I was immediately interested when this movie started explicitly questioning that approach and then when Kirk came around to the more adult point of view. I was very impressed with that piece of character growth. And then after all that hand-wringing about it being more right and proper to bring the bad guy home alive, to face a proper trial, there still was no trial!
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May 18, 2013 21:24
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qntm posted:
Well, none that we see. That is a year after the events of most of the film.
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May 18, 2013 21:48
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In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time?
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May 18, 2013 21:58
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It looks like there's a chance this won't even top '09's opening weekend gross. Ouch. Maybe the marketing shouldn't have focused so much on a beloved but mostly unknown (outside of the UK) tv actor who's role was also kept secret? qbert fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 22:01
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I said come in! posted:In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time? He's got a couple of hundred years. His first priority is to wipe out the Federation so that the Romulan Empire can expand without any opposition.
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May 18, 2013 22:05
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So, I just saw the movie. I liked it. Wasn't perfect, but it was still fun and probably one of the better Trek movies. At first, the more militaristic uniforms (reminded me of the fascist dudes in Starship Troopers!) and the Admiral's "Just loving kill the bastard!" approach really bugged me and felt super against what Trek was about, but about midway into the movie, it made sense. Scotty put it the best himself: "We're explorers, not a military organization. This is wrong." And with that, the whole point of the movie became clear, and pretty true to Trek. I'm glad that Kirk stayed true to himself and what Starfleet is all about and didn't just incinerate a guy from orbit. That said, a whole lot of stuff in the movie was WICKED convenient. Especially that particular scene that pretty much re-enacted Wrath of Khan, except with the roles reversed. Sure, I like callbacks to older stuff, but also I really hope the next movie stands more on its own rather than aping so much from previous material. I'm also kinda disappointed just how little exploring there is in these movies. I loved the first 15 minutes or so, and I want some more of that. Sure, big action epics are cool and all, but I miss the smaller stories. I really feel like this new Trek universe would be a lot better if it had a companion tv show about Kirk and Spock's smaller adventures, so when they have to save the universe and be big action heroes, it makes a little more impact. I think we're long overdue for another season of TOS, and with today's political climate being pretty tense like the 1960's, I think it's time Trek comes back. Granted, Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto are movie stars, and I doubt they'd want to work on a TV budget now, plus CBS owns the right to Star Trek on TV, so such a show will never exist, but drat I wish it did.
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May 18, 2013 22:07
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I said come in! posted:In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time? It's a can of worms, man. It's like asking why didn't they just have the Eagles throw the ring into the volcano or fly them there. What I'm saying is I wouldn't mind another "One does not simply..." thread with other movies/media.
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May 18, 2013 22:13
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I am delighted that the stupid loving forklift truck from 09 reappeared in this one. I was looking for it and they delivered.
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May 18, 2013 22:18
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I said come in! posted:In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time? Who says he didn't?
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May 18, 2013 22:18
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Honestly he should have just gone after the Hobus star first thing with his red matter weapons and then it would never have been an issue and his wife would never have died... Oh...
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May 18, 2013 22:24
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Ah, so this is where the inspiration for the Dreadnaught came from
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May 18, 2013 22:25
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computer parts posted:Well, none that we see. That is a year after the events of most of the film. Except if a major point of the film is that you should put the bad guy on trial instead of killing him via remote control, you should at least show that he had a trial. Also anyone else remember how Scotty (when he was caught on the dreadnaught) mentioned that the guy who caught him was with some private security group instead of Starfleet, so when the dreadnaught blew up, it would be Space Blackwater people and not Starfleet people dying? Cause Space Blackwater guys don't have families and stuff. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 22:28
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monster on a stick posted:Except if a major point of the film is that you should put the bad guy on trial instead of killing him via remote control, you should at least show that he had a trial. I thought the point of that was that the private security guy didn't know what Scotty was doing when he hit the airlock control.
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May 18, 2013 22:38
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A few issues from the '09 film arised because they went into production with two different script drafts that clearly altered some of what was going on with regards to Nero and the time travel stuff. So thank you writer's strike. It falls apart when you look at it too closely but the film just works anyway. While STID has the tighter script it's also incredibly sloppy (Have your overcomplicated conspiracy storyline here) and so utterly concerned with mistaking fan service for actual plot or character development. Take the name Khan away and it reveals the villain to be the very shallow, vaguely defined character that he is despite the best efforts of Cumberbatch. The WoK reversal is also bullshit, again despite being nicely played because in the original it's two lifelong friends saying goodbye, there's a weight to the scene. In this Kirk and Spock have known eachother for like three years and still don't quite seem to get on as well. So really the scene only exists to remind you of the first time it was done better. It's thoughtless pandering. I really can't see the sense in rebooting your series so you're free to tell your own stories and then loading it with pointless fan pandering. Particularly since those moments are going to fall flat to anyone who isn't familiar with the original series.
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May 18, 2013 22:40
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DrVenkman posted:The WoK reversal is also bullshit, again despite being nicely played because in the original it's two lifelong friends saying goodbye, there's a weight to the scene. In this Kirk and Spock have known eachother for like three years and still don't quite seem to get on as well. So really the scene only exists to remind you of the first time it was done better. It's thoughtless pandering. While I half agree with you, to be fair to that scene, it wasn't just a flip reversal. It was about where their friendship was at that particular time. One of the best things about the two Trek films so far is that Kirk and Spock's friendship has been built and earned. They're so much more human than the original actors were ever allowed to be.
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May 18, 2013 22:49
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Chewbacca posted:Also, did anyone else get really hopeful halfway through the movie that they were just going to abandon existing Trek lore in a glorious move and make the rest of the movie the Kirk and Khan buddy adventures where they learn to work together and trust each other and end up as friends? I bet some test audiences thought that, since they had to include that loving scene where Leanord Nemoy shows up to explicitly spell out to the audience that "Khan is a bad guy." Yeah, I did too.  I know it would have been stupid as hell, but when they got to the scene with Kirk and Khan crouching in the torpedo tube, and Kirk almost starts to tell Khan about jumping onto the mining ship in the first movie, yeah part of me was really hoping against hope that the next film could be a Kirk and Khan buddy-action movie. Benedict Cumberbatch was the most interesting thing about this movie, and it felt like he got much less screentime than he deserved.
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May 18, 2013 22:52
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I was in an audience of mostly non fans (I could tell because it was mostly couples on a Friday night and they didn't look very ugly) and though some things flew over their head they appreciated the Khan reveal and I heard some audible gasps at the Kirk death and Spock scream. Generally non-fans know about TOS because it's an iconic show. They might miss poo poo like the NX-01 model or the section 31 callback, but they know what a Tribble is.
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May 18, 2013 22:56
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monster on a stick posted:Except if a major point of the film is that you should put the bad guy on trial instead of killing him via remote control, you should at least show that he had a trial. Instead he's literally on ice, indefinitely detained forever without trial. So the system works, I guess?
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May 18, 2013 23:20
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I said come in! posted:In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time? Because it happened, it's canon, he saw it happen and will not abide innaccuracy in Trek canon.
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May 18, 2013 23:24
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I've mostly heard positive responses from my friends and people around the office. Also, here's a pretty cool article about designing the graphics for the viewscreens and wrap-around displays. http://www.inventinginteractive.com/2013/05/16/star-trek-into-darkness/
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May 18, 2013 23:25
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DrVenkman posted:Particularly since those moments are going to fall flat to anyone who isn't familiar with the original series. Interestingly, only the people who are familiar with the callbacks are bitching about the callbacks. I seriously don't think the Kirk death scene is falling flat to anyone, since even the most critical people are begrudgingly admitting it was pretty well done. Most of the callbacks are little things that wouldn't affect someone who doesn't catch them. In fact, one reason I consider most of the "pandering" in this film to be pretty well done is because it's done within the confines of the plot. If you miss a callback, you aren't missing anything important. They are just interesting plot level Easter eggs.
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May 18, 2013 23:27
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Danger posted:Because it happened, it's canon, he saw it happen and will not abide innaccuracy in Trek canon. Given the ability to retcon canon, return his wife and family, heal the universe of all wounds and grant peaceful relationship between the Romulan Empire and the Federation, the avid Star Trek fan chooses instead to poo poo the bed. It's almost like they're trying to say something. I can't figure it out, though.
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May 18, 2013 23:28
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I said come in! posted:In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time? That advanced tech could have helped out with the attempted Romulan invasion of Vulcan in "Unification."
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May 18, 2013 23:29
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Danger posted:Because it happened, it's canon, he saw it happen and will not abide inaccuracy in Trek canon. This is unironically Nero's reasoning, though. Even if he can save Romulus in the past, there is no way to bring back HIS Romulus an HIS family. By changing the past everything will be different even if he could go back to the future.
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May 18, 2013 23:41
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Loved it. The actors continue to do great work and I thought all the cast had great chemistry, especially the Big Three. Big fan of The Scene reversal. One of the biggest questions ST fans have been wondering is how events are going to play out in the future in the new timeline. Basically we are wondering as to the "destiny" of the characters. I thought switching Spock and Kirk says a lot about the philosophy of the new timeline. Seems like the big beats can still happen but details can change. I loved that the movie didn't pretend that the audience doesn't know about the old timeline. I also loved how physical and visceral everything feels. Ship combat is just brutal, the fight scenes were great. Kirk trying to beat the poo poo out of Khan while he just stood there was awesome, and totally plays on the famous knockdown-drag-out between Khan and Kirk in Space Seed. The worst thing about the film was sitting in front of some uber trekkie who was loudly nitpicking everything throughout the movie. This man is three hundred years old --- UH ISNT IT 2259 in the movie? He "Pfffff"-ed so loud at the Khan reveal that he literally got spit on the head of my buddy sitting next to me. I've never come closer to actually chewing someone out in a theater, but I'm a big coward and sat there and stewed instead.
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May 18, 2013 23:50
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qntm posted:Who says he didn't? Did one really think he was sitting around for 20+ years just waiting for Spock to appear through the time wormhole? 
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May 18, 2013 23:50
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echoplex posted:
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May 19, 2013 00:04
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Justin Godscock posted:Did one really think he was sitting around for 20+ years just waiting for Spock to appear through the time wormhole? According to storyboards and deleted scenes he just sat in a prison cell calculating Spock's arrival. Then broke out when it was time.
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May 19, 2013 00:10
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LLJKSiLk posted:According to storyboards and deleted scenes he just sat in a prison cell calculating Spock's arrival. Then broke out when it was time. Eh, it was an attempt at humor at the very least.
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May 19, 2013 00:22
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Huh...well...I saw the movie last night with a bunch of friends and...that was a movie. I dunno' I loved Trek '09, but this one just didn't really work for me, and I'm having a hell of a time pinning down why. I even liked what they were trying to do with the overall plot, every character interaction was solid and enjoyable, and the visuals were great. But it didn't click for me. I mean, I feel like there were some weird tone and pacing issues like: There was an awful lot of death and destruction lovingly rendered on screen that kinda' squicked me out, the Khan Noonien Singh: FPS Protagonist segment felt kinda' long for how it didn't really feel like there was much at stake, I kinda' felt like there was a lot of cheap drama that didn't actually ad to anything like Kirk getting demoted at the beginning, and the MadScientistWorking posted:I want to say that nothing you actually saw of the warp core was pulp scifi. Judging by what the actual interior of that same exact fusion reactor looks like when operating I would hazard a guess that they just based the interior on a working fusion reactor. Yeah I actually loved that they used the NIF as the warp core room. My boyfriend and I always joke that the NIF looks like what we'd expect a space engine to look like so it seemed quite appropriate to us...certainly a better visual fit than an atomic brewery. 
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May 19, 2013 00:24
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Ernie Muppari posted:Huh...well...I saw the movie last night with a bunch of friends and...that was a movie. I dunno' I loved Trek '09, but this one just didn't really work for me, and I'm having a hell of a time pinning down why. I even liked what they were trying to do with the overall plot, every character interaction was solid and enjoyable, and the visuals were great. But it didn't click for me. I mean, I feel like there were some weird tone and pacing issues like: There was an awful lot of death and destruction lovingly rendered on screen that kinda' squicked me out, the Khan Noonien Singh: FPS Protagonist segment felt kinda' long for how it didn't really feel like there was much at stake, I kinda' felt like there was a lot of cheap drama that didn't actually ad to anything like Kirk getting demoted at the beginning, and the I think they crammed a lot into this movie and it felt all over the place. Kirk gets demoted, then like 10 minutes later, Admiral Pike is conveniently killed off, oh, Kirk is Captain again! While I did like the movie, it was VERY chaotic.
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May 19, 2013 00:26
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