|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:I didn't see it coming because I thought that rumour was debunked a while ago, but I also wasn't at all surprised. Another complaint, and this is more of a personal pet peeve than an actual critique but I hate hate hate hero-villain plots, and Trek has done a lot of this. The series, the movies, everything. It's so lame and uninteresting to me.
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 16:23 |
|
|
Cingulate posted:I'm not sure how convincing the movie is at making that statement. It probably depends on whom you're asking, but I'm sure most people watching this will quite enjoy the action scenes - most of which are, of course, scenes of war and violence. I'd say it's pretty convincing. The main characters very rarely resort to actual violence in the movie and, when they do, it turns out to be completely ineffective. For instance, Kirk punching Khan out of pure rage after Khan surrenders turns out to be pointless. Spock chasing Khan after Kirk's death is, yes, emotionally motivated. Ultimately, though, it turns out that Spock needs Khan and... Okay, I don't have a good answer for this one.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:28
|
|
|
Gio posted:I read literally nothing coming into the movie so I was surprised, but not "oh god that's so cool" kind of surprised. You hate one of the basic models of story conflict from the beginning of storytelling?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
I think the biggest question raised by Into Darkness is how many movies have I watched where Ed Harris was actually Peter Weller?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
I think it's interesting that many of the people calling this movie a "mindless action flick" actually missed all of the important plot points, character arcs and other things that made it good. I swear, some goons just stop watching what's in front of them because they are too busy sperging that the lasers are the wrong color or whatever. I really like Kirk's death scene, and I knew that he would be saved by Khan's blood right as Scotty said going in the core will kill him. The point of that scene was not for us to feel sorry that Kirk died, but to show Spock's character development. It was a very emotional and very well acted scene. I also didn't think KHAAAN was out of place there: we see Spock get more and more emotional through the scene, and when Kirk dies, its catharsis. My only complaint is that they didn't really need Leonard Nemoy's cameo in this movie. We already knew that Khan was very dangerous from watching the film, and old Spock was just stating the obvious. As I understand it's a tie in with the old movies, but it wasn't really necessary. Then again, it didn't take anything away from the flow of the film, so its a very minor issue.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
It would be nice if they'd just give Shatner a cameo just so he could shut the hell up about it.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:56
|
|
|
Pycckuu posted:My only complaint is that they didn't really need Leonard Nemoy's cameo in this movie. We already knew that Khan was very dangerous from watching the film, and old Spock was just stating the obvious. As I understand it's a tie in with the old movies, but it wasn't really necessary. Then again, it didn't take anything away from the flow of the film, so its a very minor issue. I agree, it's not the best storytelling, but I'll give it a pass for the sake of the audience. Not everyone has seen Wrath of Khan. That demographic really benefits from seeing Nimoy show up and tell them that yes, this Khan guy has been bad news for like 30 years now and yes, poo poo is going down. I think that's a fair trade: Trekkies get the in-jokes at the expense of being told a few plot elements we already knew.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:05
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:It would be nice if they'd just give Shatner a cameo just so he could shut the hell up about it. It would be so awesome if there's a scene in the next film where Pine is saying "Have you checked for Sabotage?" and suddenly off-camera you just hear "No, no, no, let me show you how to do it" and Shatner just comes on and pushes him out of the way and does the line and then the rest of the film just continues with him as Kirk and nobody acknowledging what happened.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:09
|
|
|
Even better if he attempts to do all the stunts old man style.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:10
|
|
|
Pycckuu posted:I think it's interesting that many of the people calling this movie a "mindless action flick" actually missed all of the important plot points, character arcs and other things that made it good. I swear, some goons just stop watching what's in front of them because they are too busy sperging that the lasers are the wrong color or whatever. But I did like the deconstruction elements. Pike yelling at Kirk about his stupid plans was pretty great. I am kind of astounded that they resisted the urge to put a mostly dead Pike into the blinky wheelchair. fenix down fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:13
|
|
|
Siroc posted:Do you want a villain today quoting Paradise Lost and Moby Dick? Yes.  Pycckuu posted:
I think that it served a greater purpose than you think. If they didn't do that, then everyone would be sperging about "why didn't they just call Old Spock and get all the dirt on Khan? What a waste of a great cameo opportunity!" Also it puts to bed, for better or for worse, for the rest of the new franchise, why Old Spock isn't giving them cheat codes all the time. It was something that needed to be addressed, unless they were just going to forget he existed, which would have been lame.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:16
|
|
|
They should just have old spock die so there's no chance of ever being able to get information about the future. Though, really, I don't see the harm of just mind melding with himself so Spock can know what's to come. He's the best choice because he wouldn't reveal anything out of turn. Since the time line is already damaged, there's a chance that things might not add up the same as before and certain major events won't happen as they should.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:20
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I mean Vengeance? Come on now, you can do better than that. Honestly, the  reason the ship bothered me was because of the Defiant. I know the Defiant is hundreds of years later and technology is very different, but the fact that this ship is ginormous but built entirely for battle and can be run by only a skeleton crew (or one person) is ridiculous. A dozen people running a giant ship like that seems like a logistical nightmare. It doesn't need to be that big! The Defiant was built to be a warship as opposed to the explorer style ships in the rest of starfleet, so it doesn't have things like quarters or holodecks or even a sickbay. It has the bare minimum and as a result is small. I guess they just wanted the visual of look how much bigger this ship is, it must be more powerful, but it really made me sperg out over how they built it wrong. Also completely unrelated, but with all the gravity nonsense how did that tribble stay on the table?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:28
|
|
|
Asiina posted:Also completely unrelated, but with all the gravity nonsense how did that tribble stay on the table?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I don't see how former relates to the later. Because this is a galaxy full of strange alien creatures and savages that want to murder you. In fact, the savages are probably the best case scenario since you know how to deal with them instead of space magic or whatever was featured in TOS. quote:
The scene I mentioned was the centerpiece of the film, it defined the central themes of the movie. It also took up the most amount of the film compared to the other two scenes. And actually, Spock beating up Khan is central to the thesis because he did not kill Khan, he disarmed him. That takes restraint and is counter to what the antagonists in the film did. Khan killing the Klingons is the obvious counter to this - it's meant to represent that Khan has no restraint. And that's a bad thing.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
I can't believe that I'd actually see the day when some sci-fi nerd would actually complain about warp travel and how it takes seconds to cross Space in movies.... and actually refer to that as a plothole
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
computer parts posted:And actually, Spock beating up Khan is central to the thesis because he did not kill Khan, he disarmed him. That takes restraint and is counter to what the antagonists in the film did. Khan killing the Klingons is the obvious counter to this - it's meant to represent that Khan has no restraint. And that's a bad thing. I enjoyed Spock breaking Khan's arm after Khan said he couldn't tell a lie, let alone break bone.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:05
|
|
|
Guilty posted:While we're talking about awesome set decisions, I love that they used the Getty Museum as federation headquarters. That building is loving gorgeous. One of the few beautiful pieces of architecture in LA That was the Getty? How did I miss that? I caught the lobby of the CAA building in the footchase, at least. Century City being prime sci-fi street scene location shooting, after all. Alchenar posted:There's literally no reason for him to go anywhere near Klingon space except to be incredibly convenient for Marcus's plot. Hey, yeah, what the hell? Scotty had no problem sneaking onto the ship and disabling it from inside. Surely the same man who easily killed two columns of Klingons could've handled the dozen guys it apparently takes to run the Vengeance, and if his transporter could reach Quo'nos from earth it could certainly reach Jupiter. On the other hand, his plan was clearly something different, and he's supposed to be all superior and poo poo. Who am I to question? Chewbacca fucked around with this message at 19:21 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:12
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:You hate one of the basic models of story conflict from the beginning of storytelling? Most of the time, yes.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:17
|
|
|
Chewbacca posted:That was the Getty? How did I miss that? I caught the lobby of the CAA building in the footchase, at least. Century City being prime sci-fi street scene location shooting, after all. There are two Gettys
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:19
|
|
|
It was the villa?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:21
|
|
|
Ernie Muppari posted:There are a surprising number of things in Star Trek that bring a particular quote from Kids in the Hall to the minds of my boyfriend and I: "Is it wrong to kill a man just because he deserves to die?" Understood, but in this case the Klingons there did not "need killing." They were intercepting an alien ship which had landed on their own planet, and are justifiably suspicious. Kirk didn't come out guns blazing, but they did once the Klingon border patrol started to defend themselves once Khan opened fire. The "right thing" to do was not to sneak into Klingon space at all (at least not without permission.) Ordinarily I would not be so nit picky, but if one of the subtexts of the film is to show that drone warfare is bad, then what they showed instead was the equivalent of sending some Marines over in helicopters, with the implication that Kirk's action was better. Except it wasn't that much better, especially compared to going up the chain of command to point out that he was given an illegal order - or to refuse to execute the order period. Maybe in the next film we'll see Kirk being chewed out for landing on Kronos and kicking off the hot war that Robocop wanted; what irony. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:30
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:It would be nice if they'd just give Shatner a cameo just so he could shut the hell up about it. They wrote a really nice cameo for him in the original film but it ended up being nixed, you can read the scene online though.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
I've never watched Star Trek outside of these two films, but I'd like the next one to be more about the Prime Directive. Have a dude going around to different undeveloped civilizations and playing God to them for the fun of it while Kirk and crew try to stop him. I'm not entirely sure if that would work, but it'd be a fun way to explore a few different settings and worlds.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 19:50
|
|
|
Asiina posted:Also completely unrelated, but with all the gravity nonsense how did that tribble stay on the table? Tribbles are perfectly capable of sticking to walls.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
Was it me or did the base that Scotty went to where the Dreadnought was being housed look exactly like a Borg "Cube"?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
Guilty posted:I can't believe that I'd actually see the day when some sci-fi nerd would actually complain about warp travel and how it takes seconds to cross Space in movies.... computer parts posted:Because this is a galaxy full of strange alien creatures and savages that want to murder you. In fact, the savages are probably the best case scenario since you know how to deal with them instead of space magic or whatever was featured in TOS. Also, Spock showing "restraint" has to be seen in the context of Spock showing emotion. Isn't it so that it's less him restraining himself from killing Khan, but rather him becoming angry enough to beat him up? Also, it's delightful to see how we've now had two movies of Spock beating up and Kirk getting beaten up.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 20:43
|
|
|
Chewbacca posted:That was the Getty? How did I miss that? I caught the lobby of the CAA building in the footchase, at least. Century City being prime sci-fi street scene location shooting, after all. I'm not too sure about the foot chase part of the movie, I don't think they landed near Federation headquarters, but the beginning of the movie was so clearly the Getty, that as a previous poster mentioned, it jarred me out of the movie. I think for a lot of scenes they didn't even bother to decorate it. Captain Pike's office is just a lobby to the right of the main entrance hall. And at the end, Kirk's speech is given in front of one of the wings of the Getty
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 20:57
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:It would be nice if they'd just give Shatner a cameo just so he could shut the hell up about it. How they could have done it would be the radiation ages Kirk in seconds, gradually morphing him into William Shatner. End of the film, Kirk decides he needs to jump rope for a while...
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:02
|
|
|
In the previous Abrams film, after Kirk wins the Kobayashi Maru by cheating, he is tried in a big hall in front of the entire student body. Is this standard practice for military academies? In my school and the place I work at, guilt and punishment are decided in private sessions.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:24
|
|
|
Democratic Pirate posted:I've never watched Star Trek outside of these two films, but I'd like the next one to be more about the Prime Directive. Have a dude going around to different undeveloped civilizations and playing God to them for the fun of it while Kirk and crew try to stop him. I'm not entirely sure if that would work, but it'd be a fun way to explore a few different settings and worlds.  Asiina posted:Honestly, the It's not necessarily wrong, it's just two different schools of design from two different centuries approaching two different problems. The Defiant was a ship built specifically to take out a known threat: the Borg. The Vengeance was built to take out unknown possible future threats of big fuckoff poo poo like the Nerada showing up randomly because holy poo poo, THAT's what's out there? 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:28
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:"Going 100x the speed of light? No biggie. Going 10000x the speed of light? MY SUSPENSE OF DISBELIEF" Yeah its incredibly odd that people would gripe about this. I mean, there's only so much screen time you can have for your movie, you aren't gonna waste it trying to establish proper time frames for magic space travel. People also never take time to poop in Star Trek, priority of screen time trumps minutiae.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:32
|
|
|
Asiina posted:Honestly, the The Defiant is almost too powerful for its size even in that era, though. It can barely keep itself together for all the power running through it.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:32
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:In the previous Abrams film, after Kirk wins the Kobayashi Maru by cheating, he is tried in a big hall in front of the entire student body. Is this standard practice for military academies? In my school and the place I work at, guilt and punishment are decided in private sessions. I've only heard of it, because I'm in a different branch, but the navy has what's called the captain's mast. Where someone is put in front of everyone else and gets in trouble or something.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
Asiina posted:Honestly, the Yeah, this bugged me too. On one hand, they wanted it to be bigger and more imposing so the audience would go "ohhh, that's the bad guy ship!" but it was kinda stupid to have the ship be that big when it could be controlled by one guy and had a skeleton crew.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, this bugged me too. On one hand, they wanted it to be bigger and more imposing so the audience would go "ohhh, that's the bad guy ship!" but it was kinda stupid to have the ship be that big when it could be controlled by one guy and had a skeleton crew. Just because it could be run by a bare crew doesn't mean it was intended to be all the time. Once it became public knowledge they could scale it up to a full crew and operate it at full efficiency, the skeleton crew would just be a security precaution to make sure you can use the thing but there aren't many flapping jaws to worry about giving it away until you're ready.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:36
|
|
|
Astroman posted:It's not necessarily wrong, it's just two different schools of design from two different centuries approaching two different problems. The Defiant was a ship built specifically to take out a known threat: the Borg. The Vengeance was built to take out unknown possible future threats of big fuckoff poo poo like the Nerada showing up randomly because holy poo poo, THAT's what's out there? I actually thought the Vengeance was supposed to be Abrams take on the Excelsior class. That would've been more understandable for why it was so large.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:40
|
|
|
Just got back from the movie and I liked it. I thought it was better than Trek09.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:47
|
|
|
Oops. Double post.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 16:23 |
|
|
Great_Gerbil posted:I couldn't really have summed it up better than PeterWeller did earlier: Thanks man. I really think it's a poignant and important message, and it speaks directly to the American audience in a way that is blunt but not insulting. I don't know what to say about how well the film conveys that message. I found it obvious, but I was expecting an allegory, and some of my buddies didn't see it until I pointed it out.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 22:05
|
|
