|
Watched this last night (in non-3D) with my partner and holy poo poo did a guy sitting two rows in front of us lose his poo poo when Kirk died , big rear end tears and sobbing. It certainly added to the atmosphere at the time. He had the look of a Trekkie and old enough to have watched Wrath of Khan the first time around, so he would have known the outcome . Overall, as a non-Star Trek enthusiast, I liked it.
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 09:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 01:44 |
|
|
Mr. Jive posted:Can't disagree with you strongly enough here. A lot of Engineering sections, especially the outside of the warp engines, were filmed at the National Ignition Facility in California, which does research on hydrogen fusion and tests nuclear weaponry. It's one of the most futuristic places on the planet. Those crazy complicated pipe thingys surrounding the warp core are real particle accelerators and giant lasers. Except I didn't say it looked hokey or poorly built, did I; futuristic "because it has lasers" does not mean that it fits the aesthetic of the film. Look, this guy gets it: Vhak lord of hate posted:I think that his point was that in a ship that has a very pulp sci-fi feel with bright colors and rounded edges the engineering room looks like the engineering room of what a real ship might look like, not the classy stylized feel of the rest of Enterprise. As another poster pointed out (sorry, can't find your quote) the interior set - as opposed to the exterior location - might have been based roughly on the real whateveritis but they still extrapolated the design out to feel like the rest of the film - an exaggerated, over-sized, swooshing bit of design that's more jet age conceptual than hard science. The brewery location for Engineering from the first film looks to be back in this one, mixed with the NIF for the actual core. Some people like that look, some don't - for better or worse it does make the ship feel huge and and a bit tinplate. It doesn't really work for me because it's so incongruous. They have blended it slightly better this time around, though. An interesting Engineering set tends to be more use in the TV shows than the films, but it would be nice to see them update the typical design with the overall style that the new films are using. Even from a non-design point of view, the location stuff like that tends to have an immediate effect on things like lighting and camera movements, and how actors can - or can't - interact with the sets. There's an amazing (for a TOS film) shot in The Undiscovered Country where the camera travels down the warp core vertically as stuff goes off all around; it'd be nice to see them move towards a traditional Engineering set if only to get more shots like that, which line up with all the dramatic blocking and direction you get on the bridge, the corridors, etc. I'd much more enjoy some kind of glowing abstract thing with loads of buttresses and flashing red bits than the locations they use. It's really not about realism I guess! edit: for example, a lot of purist types complained about the upright barcode scanner-y things they seem to have dressed onto a lot of the consoles. I don't really get it but I love them! I want more flashy bold lens-flarey stuff rather than 'real' locations. Boring! echoplex fucked around with this message at 09:56 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 09:54
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:I figure naming the ship Vengeance, in-universe, made sense. Say Admiral Robocop gets his war. He gets to tell everyone that the Enterprise, filled with the bright up-and-commers in Starfleet, was brutally destroyed by the Klingons. Fortunately, there was this prototype warship Starfleet was making. It was going to be called Justice or or something, but in honor of the Enterprise crew, we're going to call it Vengeance. Vengeance against the Klingons! Vengeance for the Enterprise crew! This cafel posted:I honestly felt like the weakest part was Cumberbatch, but I think that's just because I'm too nostalgic for Ricardo Montalban's performance. Cold British menace is not a proper stand in for Mexican passionate anger in the role of Khan. And this. The old Khan was just the right amount of menacing balanced with charming to be legitimately terrifying. Cumberbatch? Plenty cold. Not enough hot. Although he did go pretty apeshit in the end which kind of made up for it. cafel posted:Also being the giant nerd that I am I felt like there could have been a bit more space combat, but that's just a personal preference. The distances involved were really off-putting. Someone needs to explain to Hollywood just how goddamn big space is. I like all the pretty backdrops and all but  
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 09:58
|
|
|
You know, it didn't even have to be Kronos they went to. Marcus says the Klingons had taken over a few worlds, already. Have Harrison go to a world closer to Earth/Federation space that the Klingons have claimed dominion over in the last few years. It's still somewhere Starfleet cannot openly go without creating an incident, but the aftermath probably could play a lot better by framing it around a failed mission for former Federation citizens trapped under Klingon rule, or the a mission to neutralize a sensitive Starfleet resource that was left on the planet, that resulted in a harsh Klingon response. That could be enough to spark a war between the powers.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 10:29
|
|
|
1st AD posted:1)There is a Star Trek episode where a dude with black face on the left and white face on the right is mad at a guy with white face on the left and black face on the right. That is quintessential Star Trek, ham-fisting morality up the viewers' asses. That is not quintessential Star Trek, it is generally considered a bad and completely unsubtle episode of the original series.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 10:32
|
|
|
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is hot garbage and is not wholly indicative of TOS Star Trek.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 10:40
|
|
|
JediTalentAgent posted:You know, it didn't even have to be Kronos they went to. Marcus says the Klingons had taken over a few worlds, already. Have Harrison go to a world closer to Earth/Federation space that the Klingons have claimed dominion over in the last few years. There's literally no reason for him to go anywhere near Klingon space except to be incredibly convenient for Marcus's plot. He knows precisely where the Vengeance is, he should have just beamed onto it and stolen it.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 10:51
|
|
|
Beach Bum posted:And this. The old Khan was just the right amount of menacing balanced with charming to be legitimately terrifying. Cumberbatch? Plenty cold. Not enough hot. Although he did go pretty apeshit in the end which kind of made up for it. Thinking about it it might be less Cumberbatch's fault and more on the script. In WoK, Khan isn't concerned with plot points involving Starfleet or his genetic superiority, it's rage against Kirk. Both Khan and Kirk get very Captain Ahab with each other to the point where the script explicitly references Moby Dick. This just makes for a more compelling tension then we get this time around. As you point out at the very end Cumberbatch gets to go a bit nuts and Spock does the same and to me it felt like the most compelling part of the plot in terms of intensity. If Cumberbatch had been given more time to be emotive and less time as a mysterious plot point I'd have probably enjoyed his portrayal a lot more. quote:The distances involved were really off-putting. Someone needs to explain to Hollywood just how goddamn big space is. I like all the pretty backdrops and all but That may be, but I can't get enough of the turreted pew-pew phasers and I don't recall the Enterprise ever actually firing hers at any point, which is a bit of a let down.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 11:12
|
|
|
cafel posted:That may be, but I can't get enough of the turreted pew-pew phasers and I don't recall the Enterprise ever actually firing hers at any point, which is a bit of a let down. That is also something I really enjoyed, coming as a Kirk era fan (the rest of ST doesn't really pull me). WoK had that very brutal scene in Engineering with one of the new cadets, and with Abrams' stuff, while not as graphic, poo poo is being blown to smithereens and people are being sucked out into space. Is it just me or in TOS/Movies, phasers do mostly burn/thermal damage but in this one the phaser type weapons are literally ripping chunks out of Enterprise? Near the end I noticed a significant section of the main disc missing and that was before any substantial weaponry had been discharged
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 11:27
|
|
|
I saw it yesterday, and while for the most part I enjoyed it, I also could not roll my eyes enough at the ridiculously lazy low-hanging fruit of a mcguffin introduced in the first few minutes. I was really hoping the whole deal with Khan's blood at the beginning was just a red herring and Abrams and crew wouldn't go for that, but they did, and wow did it rub me the wrong way. Come the hell on. This is the 23rd century, and we have been writing Trek episodes for how long? Don't be so drat lazy.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 12:00
|
|
|
Wow, they actually one-upped the hull breach scene from the first movie: the Vengeance catching up with the Enterprise, making that horrible buzzing noise, blowing chunks out of the hull and crewmembers being sucked out at warp. Holy poo poo ...
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 12:37
|
|
|
Myrmidongs posted:I saw it yesterday, and while for the most part I enjoyed it, I also could not roll my eyes enough at the ridiculously lazy low-hanging fruit of a mcguffin introduced in the first few minutes. I was really hoping the whole deal with Khan's blood at the beginning was just a red herring and Abrams and crew wouldn't go for that, but they did, and wow did it rub me the wrong way. Come the hell on. This is the 23rd century, and we have been writing Trek episodes for how long? Don't be so drat lazy. I didn't see the scene with the lead actor "dying" right after we've been shown the resurrection serum twice as being in any way about the actual resurrection (neither the method, nor the question of if at all). Rather, it's there to give Spock a reason to Hulk out at Khan. Khan's been shown to be totally superior to anybody else at any form of combat. So Spock needs the motivation boost from seeing Kirk die to be able to take him on. That's the point of Kirk dying; not to make us worry for Kirk, but to make us worry for KHAN. And then, even the brother's bond isn't strong enough, we need the girlfriend to save the day.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 12:46
|
|
|
Which, it probably should have been Uhura's near-death to drive him into a murder frenzy. Spock was helpless in the last film at watching his mother die, a powerful and positive link to his past life taken away. Now he could helpless watch Uhura die, the woman who he thought to be his connection towards a positive future. Into Darkness is a movie I enjoyed, but drat if the story and script don't leave me wanting to have seen a lot of changes and improvements.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 13:02
|
|
|
penismightier posted:I'm glad you said that about the teasers because that obnoxiously coy marketing angle really worked against the film. If they had just given us the plot from the beginning the reveal would've worked much better. I'm anxious to watch this one in a few years out of the shadow of those posters and stuff. It's JJ Abrams and his 'mystery box' stuff. I get not wanting to spoil things for audiences these days in the age of 'show everything' trailers. But look at Iron Man 3. They genuinely caught people off guard and the reason they did that is by not showing their hand at all. The obnoxious thing about the Abrams stuff is that they WANT you to know there's something they're hiding. It's a tease that doesn't work, more so given that it was obvious a while ago what their big surprise was.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 13:37
|
|
|
It's pretty obvious why Rowboat cop would put all the bodies in the torpedoes. It's an old PI trick.. I enjoyed the movie overall, but I was really annoyed when a wall of lava of all things had a REEEAARRRRAOOOOOOWWWWW noise attached to it. Edit: Also, there is someone they could have easily thrown into the warp core and that person is Welshy. WELSHY NOOOOOOOOO! Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 14:06
|
|
|
No-one seems to have mentioned the sound design much, which was legit flawless. And everyone using their communicators like they were iPhones was brilliant.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 14:35
|
|
|
Hot Sexy Jupiter posted:Wow, they actually one-upped the hull breach scene from the first movie: the Vengeance catching up with the Enterprise, making that horrible buzzing noise, blowing chunks out of the hull and crewmembers being sucked out at warp. Holy poo poo ... Yeah, that was totally awesome. Sounded like a horde of angry buzzing mechano-wasps coming to destroy you. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:14
|
|
|
Upon further reflection, I really enjoy the theme of crew as family. Khan's motivated by revenge when he believes his crew is dead and, to protect them, demands the sacrifice of others. Admiral Marcus, ultimately, is demanding the sacrifice of other for what he perceives as the "greater good." Which, implicitly, is his daughter (his literal family) and Starfleet (his "crew"). Kirk, on the other hand, sacrifices himself twice. He sacrifices himself metaphorically by endangering his career to save Spock. Spock doesn't understand this sacrifice and even questions it, without accepting the answer from Kirk. This serves as a mirror, later, when Kirk ultimately sacrifices himself for his crew--his family--and Spock relents to Kirk's reason for saving him in the volcano. Three characters motivated by the same desire. Two decend "into darkness." I couldn't really have summed it up better than PeterWeller did earlier: PeterWeller posted:The film makes an explicit condemnation of post-911 post-Bush America and reminds not just Kirk but all of us that we are to be "explorers, not soldiers." We're supposed to be the Starfleet our ideals compel us to be, not the one we may feel inevitably drawn towards because of the depravities of certain actors and the realities of a complex world. I feel that is the same kind of idea that has always made Trek compelling and meaningful. Yes, I liked that so much I saved it.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:20
|
|
|
I'm not sure how convincing the movie is at making that statement. It probably depends on whom you're asking, but I'm sure most people watching this will quite enjoy the action scenes - most of which are, of course, scenes of war and violence. So, how genuine is the statement that Star Fleet (Star Trek) should be about exploration rather than fighting? I mean, this thread has seen two major hopes expressed for the next one: either the 5-year mission, exploration and wonder ... or the Klingon war.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
Great_Gerbil posted:Kirk, on the other hand, sacrifices himself twice. He sacrifices himself metaphorically by endangering his career to save Spock. Spock doesn't understand this sacrifice and even questions it, without accepting the answer from Kirk. This serves as a mirror, later, when Kirk ultimately sacrifices himself for his crew--his family--and Spock relents to Kirk's reason for saving him in the volcano.  , but the opening scene really bugged me. I get why he saved Spock and the overarching theme to it all, but the fact that a primitive civilization was irrevocably changed to save him was a bit unnerving. And I'm usually the one to NOT give a poo poo about these kinds of things.
Gio fucked around with this message at 15:32 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:29
|
|
|
JediTalentAgent posted:Now that San Francisco half destroyed by a terrorist does this mean the universe might diverge into the Babylon 5 timeline? That was San Diego in Babylon 5.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
Eiba posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance The British have had a number of fantastically 'gently caress you' ship names throughout history. http://www.demosnews.com/piece.php?8.11 The HMS Tormentor is my favorite. I mean, come on, you can name a warship something like the Flower Child, but that isn't going to make the people on the receiving end of your weapons payload feel any better about their situation. British names are just honest. Gio posted:Maybe this is a bit of That's the thing about the Prime Directive, though. Sure, they may have altered the future of those people, but had they followed the Prime Directive by the book those very same people would be dead. They were never even supposed to try and stop the volcano from exploding. Kirk already broke the rules by intervening, he just broke them further by revealing the Enterprise in his rescue of Spock. Kangra posted:One question I had about Carol Marcus. There were two very quick shots that suggested to me that she's already pregnant. Was that meant to be implied? I have no idea what shots you are talking about and I'm positive they weren't implying what you think they're implying. There's no reason for it, really. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
One question I had about Carol Marcus. There were two very quick shots that suggested to me that she's already pregnant. Was that meant to be implied? This version of Trek either isn't consistent with the old one respect to the passage of time in warp, or just cuts those bits out, so it was hard to tell when that might have happened. Obviously by the end of the film, there is time for it to happen later. Or not happen it all, but with all the other references, why skip that one?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:45
|
|
|
echoplex posted:And everyone using their communicators like they were iPhones was brilliant. I was glad that they actually went to the trouble to demonstrate that, despite all of our advances in mobile communications technology, Star Trek communicators are still light years ahead of any iPhone: namely, that one scene where Kirk phones Scotty up even though Scotty is in a bar in a completely different star system.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
Just saw this yesterday and loved it. I really enjoyed that they decided to have another "growth" movie for Kirk and the rest of the crew before transitioning to the five year mission. By the end of the first film, this timeline's Kirk still hadn't begun listening to the better angels of his nature enough to have earned it, so it was good that this film explicitly dealt with him growing up a little more and tempering his recklessness with a little high minded idealism. Gives me faith that they're going at least try to keep the series aligned with the moral and ethical messages Trek at its best has tried to convey. The opening bits were like if Indiana Jones and TOS had a baby and it was amazing.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 15:58
|
|
|
Kangra posted:One question I had about Carol Marcus. There were two very quick shots that suggested to me that she's already pregnant. Was that meant to be implied? This version of Trek either isn't consistent with the old one respect to the passage of time in warp, or just cuts those bits out, so it was hard to tell when that might have happened. Obviously by the end of the film, there is time for it to happen later. Or not happen it all, but with all the other references, why skip that one? Khan kicks her in the gut at one point, and then when she's back on the Enterprise she's holding her stomach and I remember thinking, "Holy poo poo did Khan kick her in the stomach while she was pregnant?"
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:19
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I'm not sure how convincing the movie is at making that statement. It probably depends on whom you're asking, but I'm sure most people watching this will quite enjoy the action scenes - most of which are, of course, scenes of war and violence. Exploration relies a hell of a lot on violence, the whole point of exploring the unknown is that you don't know what's out there. And really the most "action packed' part of the film has Kirk doing something wholly nonviolent to anyone but himself - he's saving the Enterprise from destruction.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:22
|
|
|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:I also got that impression. I'm pretty sure he stomped on one of her limbs. There was a gross bone-cracking sound and everything.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:24
|
|
|
jivjov posted:I'm pretty sure he stomped on one of her limbs. There was a gross bone-cracking sound and everything. Yeah I think he broke her kneecap. He kicked Kirk in the stomach.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:25
|
|
|
I posted this in the TVIV thread but have (voluntarily) chosen to respect Aatrek's previous posting embargo-- JJ Trek is really ADD, which is a good and a bad thing. The Good--it makes the action come to life in a way Trek action never has, where you feel the impact of the phasers, torpedoes, punches, whatever. The scene where the Dreadnought attacks the Enterprise at warp is like this and man is it awesome. The Bad--Sorkin-esque dialogue, people running all the time, terrible pacing, and lack of intrigue. It takes a total of thirty seconds to go from Earth to Kronos, apparently. Visually it's gorgeous and the action is great, but I think both are...not as great as they could be? That is, if it were more deliberately paced, you could better take in the visuals and not feel desensitized to the action on screen by the middle of the film.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:29
|
|
|
Gio posted:lack of intrigue I'd argue that isn't entirely fair to this film. This movie does a really good job at keeping you wondering exactly what the hell is going on. It doesn't rely on it's high profile reveal of Khan to carry the story. It uses it as a way to further the mystery of the facts surrounding their mission. The Khan reveal doesn't make you uneasy about Khan being there, it makes you uneasy about what his presence implies about the current situation. Then Admiral Banzai shows up and things start to go south incredibly fast. EDIT: And I know it's mostly personal preference, but I thought the pacing was wonderful. There were no moments where I was like, "Okay, get on with it", and the movie felt a lot shorter than it actually was. I think the mysteriously short travel times were worth the increased pacing in the film. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Exploration relies a hell of a lot on violence, the whole point of exploring the unknown is that you don't know what's out there. While historically, much exploration has been exploitation and violent, I don't see how it must be so in space. computer parts posted:And really the most "action packed' part of the film has Kirk doing something wholly nonviolent [spoiler] to anyone but himself - he's saving the Enterprise from destruction.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:50
|
|
|
penismightier posted:Yeah I think he broke her kneecap. He kicked Kirk in the stomach. Maybe I'm mis-remembering. It would be a neat twist, though.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
After being in the military for so long, I'm inclined to believe that the admin guy doing his paperwork misheard Kahn as John and he never bothered correcting it.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
Retardog posted:After being in the military for so long, I'm inclined to believe that the admin guy doing his paperwork misheard Kahn as John and he never bothered correcting it. I can see that. I know a guy who's name is hosed up in every single system there is. It's always different. His name starts with "Mc" and sometimes there's a space between the two, like on one of his name tags. Some times that's his last name, the rest of his last name is his first name and his first name is his middle initial. The incompetence of government records keeping knows no bounds.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
DFu4ever posted:I'd argue that isn't entirely fair to this film. This movie does a really good job at keeping you wondering exactly what the hell is going on. It doesn't rely on it's high profile reveal of Khan to carry the story. It uses it as a way to further the mystery of the facts surrounding their mission. The Khan reveal doesn't make you uneasy about Khan being there, it makes you uneasy about what his presence implies about the current situation. Then Admiral Banzai shows up and things start to go south incredibly fast.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:00
|
|
|
The people that think old Trek material is free of holes need to take off their rose-colored glasses. In previous material, Kirk yelled "KHAAAN" even though he knew he'd be saved by Spock in a little while anyways. They had PLANNED this rescue. Why would Kirk be so mad when he knew he was being rescued? Of course, you can say Kirk was hamming it up, but it still diminishes the intent of the yell. The new movie has a much better motivation for yelling at Khan. WoK's Spock death was much more unexpected, I'll give it that. The Kirk death fit well with the reciprocity in the movie. In WoK, the Enterprise was hiding on the other side of the planet and wasn't detected by the Reliant. Maybe there was a gravatransmetric field shielding the Enterprise in WoK, but you can see why the Klingons might've not been able to detect them. I find the lack of a response from Starfleet to a battle occurring between the Moon and Earth quite odd and its hard to justify except that Abrams wanted the Enterprise plummeting to Earth and he wanted the Vengeance to take out SF. I think the new Khan is a much better general, all purpose villan than WoK's. WoK's was a great foil to Kirk because of prior history. ID's had great motivation to go after Starfleet and a much better one than Nero. Do you want a villain today quoting Paradise Lost and Moby Dick? ID had a hard time replicating any of the tension in cat and mouse game at the end of WoK, though. They moved from one setpiece to another. I miss some of the strategizing sessions to take a break for a minute, even present in the first one.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:03
|
|
|
DFu4ever posted:I'd argue that isn't entirely fair to this film. This movie does a really good job at keeping you wondering exactly what the hell is going on. It doesn't rely on it's high profile reveal of Khan to carry the story. It uses it as a way to further the mystery of the facts surrounding their mission. The Khan reveal doesn't make you uneasy about Khan being there, it makes you uneasy about what his presence implies about the current situation. Then Admiral Banzai shows up and things start to go south incredibly fast. No, it's really, really obvious what's going on. Characters even stop at certain points during the film to announce precisely what is about to go wrong and why. Everyone pointing out that going to Kronos will spark a war, Khan pointing out that the Enterprise is stuck in the Neutral zone, Spock pointing out that Khan will betray Kirk the moment they take over the Venegance. You are never in any doubt as to what's going to happen. There is zero intrigue.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:06
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:No, it's really, really obvious what's going on. Characters even stop at certain points during the film to announce precisely what is about to go wrong and why. Everyone pointing out that going to Kronos will spark a war, Khan pointing out that the Enterprise is stuck in the Neutral zone, Spock pointing out that Khan will betray Kirk the moment they take over the Venegance. You are never in any doubt as to what's going to happen. I disagree with this. Maybe I'm a bit dense, but I didn't see the Khan reveal coming. I was definitely wondering who he was and why he surrendered. I think after that reveal, though, you are right and there is little to no intrigue. Like I said, I was hoping for a more original premise.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 01:44 |
|
|
Wasn't there a promotional image of a Bird of Prey released sometime before the premier? Or did I dream that up?Gio posted:I disagree with this. Maybe I'm a bit dense, but I didn't see the Khan reveal coming. I was definitely wondering who he was and why he surrendered. I think after that reveal, though, you are right and there is little to no intrigue.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2013 17:15
|
|