|
Great_Gerbil posted:It doesn't even make sense to have a standing force guarding Earth. If you have a force there, you have to have one over Vulcan (and maybe there used to be one), over Betazed, over Andor... Well, you get the picture. I've never run out of resources in my videogames. That's why my house is designed to be fortified with automated M134 emplacements, and hired marksmen will be on rotation to keep out the thugs. That's the point, after all: to win, and to win by beating. When I watch Star Trek, the characters lose - and the whole movie loses. I'm just beating the entire time, and I win.
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 02:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Great_Gerbil posted:Unless you're at war, it's a tremendous waste of resources to have anything more than a few ships at a time just hanging around space dock. The Starfleet guy is literally trying to incite an immediate war with the most warrior-focused guys in the universe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 14:26
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:The Starfleet guy is literally trying to incite an immediate war with the most warrior-focused guys in the universe. So why not have the fleet deployed in tactically significant positions? The Klingons have never been betrayed as significantly lacking in strategic thought. Marcus is also specifically worried about two (or three?) Klingon incursions into Federation space, annexing planets that were ostensibly Federation worlds. It's stated explicitly in the movie but it's covered more significantly in the prequel and sequel comics and some of the viral marketing information so it's easy to miss.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 15:03
|
|
|
A new 7 minute Plinkett review of ST:ID https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeyLm-pLVm4
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 15:08
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:The Starfleet guy is literally trying to incite an immediate war with the most warrior-focused guys in the universe. He's secretly trying to incite a war. Parking a battle group (does Starfleet even have such a thing?) over Earth would give away the game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 17:39
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:He's secretly trying to incite a war. Parking a battle group (does Starfleet even have such a thing?) over Earth would give away the game. Parking it over the Klingon homeworld would have done that too 
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
It doesn't bug me that there was no Earth defense fleet but I do wish there was more civilian activity around the solar system. That secret Jupiter base bugged me because it should be like building a secret military installation in New York harbor. You'd never get away with it with all the ships passing by and seeing it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 20:00
|
|
|
The Jupiter base seemed like a quick little 2001 goof to me. A black, monolithic structure, but this time representing a militaristic evolution within Starfleet. Or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
tractor fanatic posted:It doesn't bug me that there was no Earth defense fleet but I do wish there was more civilian activity around the solar system. That secret Jupiter base bugged me because it should be like building a secret military installation in New York harbor. You'd never get away with it with all the ships passing by and seeing it. Khan made a cloaking device for the construction base to go with the torpedoes and super-Enterprise. He also added more licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 21:09
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:He also added more licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. He stored his crew within the Tootsie Pops in an attempt to smuggle them to freedom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 21:23
|
|
|
tractor fanatic posted:It doesn't bug me that there was no Earth defense fleet but I do wish there was more civilian activity around the solar system. That secret Jupiter base bugged me because it should be like building a secret military installation in New York harbor. You'd never get away with it with all the ships passing by and seeing it. I'm not really sure that comparing Jupiter to New York works. Space is big, really big, and full of big empty spaces that no one would bother looking at. The solar system is big and 3d and the flight paths probably change every time the planets spin. A better comparison would be that randomly hanging around Jupiter is like randomly hanging around like Tristan da Cunha. Sure, you COULD go there, but how often? Who cares about it? No one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 21:38
|
|
|
I like the movie, I think it's really okay. However, I still don't see this "genius" -thing people keep talking about when they mention Abrams. The guy is a great world builder, but I absolutely hate the stories of most, if not all, of his productions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 22:06
|
|
|
Batham posted:I like the movie, I think it's really okay. However, I still don't see this "genius" -thing people keep talking about when they mention Abrams. The guy is a great world builder, but I absolutely hate the stories of most, if not all, of his productions. Plot isn't the only thing that's important about filmmaking. And besides, what bad stories are we talking about? I thoroughly enjoyed MI3, Super 8, and the 2 Star Treks. Pretty good track record there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
He's great at making very average, mostly forgettable movies. He doesn't gently caress it up, he generally gets good performances out of his cast and is competent at shooting, but I find him completely boring as a director. He hasn't made a single movie that I would go out of my to buy and keep on my shelf. MI:3, its alright, pretty drat good at points, then fizzles out in the 3rd Act. Same problem with Super 8, a mashup of 2 different movie genres that don't work together the way he combines them (each individual "sub-movie" in it is fine, but they don't mix well). Star Trek and STID are sprited and energetic, and both kind of fall apart in the 3rd act (STID much moreso in my opinion). That's not a track record worth praising, certainly not worthy of his crazy status right now. He's much closer to a Brett Ratner, job for hire guy, than people seem to realize. bullet3 fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 22:49
|
|
|
bullet3 posted:He hasn't made a single movie that I would go out of my to buy and keep on my shelf. That is fine and all but you are in the minority opinion on that one. Don't act like you're delivering some kind of objective fact that his films are forgettable just because you personally don't line up with the majority opinion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 22:50
|
|
|
"Genius" is probably going too far, I'd say, but he's very good at what he does. He writes strong emotional beats that are really easy to grab on to, and his handling of action scenes is very strong- he can do all the big sweeping camera moves and handheld stuff that blockbuster audiences expect but there's usually a good foundation and establishment of spatial relationships- poo poo isn't just popping up at random. I'd rank Nolan higher overall but as Big Name Directors go he's one of the better ones.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
Every person who is successful enough at what they do to become a household name is hailed as a genius at some point or another. I wouldn't worry about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 00:00
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:"Genius" is probably going too far, I'd say, but he's very good at what he does. He writes strong emotional beats that are really easy to grab on to, and his handling of action scenes is very strong- he can do all the big sweeping camera moves and handheld stuff that blockbuster audiences expect but there's usually a good foundation and establishment of spatial relationships- poo poo isn't just popping up at random. If the word "genius" gets attributed to him at all, it's not solely for his directorial skills. The dude is a wicked salesman, both in the way of world building for consumers and (successfully) pitching ideas to executives.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 00:04
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:Parking it over the Klingon homeworld would have done that too Winning usually does give away the game 
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:I'm not really sure that comparing Jupiter to New York works. Space is big, really big, and full of big empty spaces that no one would bother looking at. The solar system is big and 3d and the flight paths probably change every time the planets spin. So how did they find Khan?  EDIT: And also how did they defrost Khan? I thought it was beyond Federation technology to defrost them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 04:36
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:
Imagine there was an album that was recorded on an 8-track, and you found it. Would it be legitimate to say that your car doesn't possess the technology to play it? Yes. Would it be legitimate to say that the technology is impossible to decode? No.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 04:50
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Imagine there was an album that was recorded on an 8-track, and you found it. Would it be legitimate to say that your car doesn't possess the technology to play it? Yes. 1) "Hey boss, I found some people who were frozen in the early 1700s, maybe they'd be able to help design cutting-edge weapons and our new flagship." 2) Why didn't Khan defrost his followers since he had access? The guy designing cutting-edge technology couldn't figure out what Starfleet did? And that still doesn't answer how, if space is big, they found Khan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 05:00
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:1) "Hey boss, I found some people who were frozen in the early 1700s, maybe they'd be able to help design cutting-edge weapons and our new flagship." Late 1900s, which doesn't make sense but it's Trek canon so roll with it. quote:2) Why didn't Khan defrost his followers since he had access? The guy designing cutting-edge technology couldn't figure out what Starfleet did? quote:And that still doesn't answer how, if space is big, they found Khan. Random chance and/or the military did a sweep of everything bigger than x and found it but didn't share it with the public (researchers today already do the scanning part with Asteroids).
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
What is Star Trek? What is Star Trek 'about'?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 07:30
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What is Star Trek? It's Wagontrain to the stars. Bonanza in space. Kirk is canadian John Wayne.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 07:37
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:So how did they find Khan? How did they find anything in space at all? For a story. Showing weeks and weeks and months of scanning empty space until finding something that stands out would be realistic and boring. The Jupiter analogy also works for something naval today. If your ships and subs are scouring the Pacific looking for a Japanese bomber or something, they're not going to scan New York harbor for anything. Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Jun 3, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 09:47
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What is Star Trek? Phalluses, of course. As for the Jupiter installation, wasn't an obvious Borg cube fakeout?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 09:57
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What is Star Trek? To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilisations, to boldly go where no one has gone before! Unironically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 10:31
|
|
|
qntm posted:To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilisations, to boldly go where no one has gone before! Technically this movie had a new civilization (that we learned almost nothing about). Other than that the last three movies had none of these things. On the one hand I generally believe in judging a story for what it is, but I do think it's fair to expect a film to include certain elements when it's trying to cash in on the Star Trek brand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 11:18
|
|
|
Star Trek is...
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 12:23
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Technically this movie had a new civilization (that we learned almost nothing about). Other than that the last three movies had none of these things. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 TOS movies that don't feature new civilizations either (II, III, IV, VI).
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 12:51
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Off the top of my head I can think of 4 TOS movies that don't feature new civilizations either (II, III, IV, VI). Moreso than anything in V ... God isn't a civilzation, he's just some dude. But the only ST movies where new, alien civilizations are important are I and Insurrection.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 13:01
|
|
|
I feel like the Nibiru segment manages to tell us more about the Nibiruans by showing, in those few minutes, than pretty much any of the TOS movies with any associated "new civilizations" in whatever their entire runtimes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 14:13
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:Phalluses, of course. The movie used the Borg imagery as a direct comparison to and criticism of the Federation, which is pretty much the reason the Borg were created in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 14:28
|
|
|
api call girl posted:I feel like the Nibiru segment manages to tell us more about the Nibiruans by showing, in those few minutes, than pretty much any of the TOS movies with any associated "new civilizations" in whatever their entire runtimes. That's why TNG is the best trek.  Cingulate posted:But the only ST movies where new, alien civilizations are important are I and Insurrection. The Nexus in Generations should probably qualify, and First Contact had, well, the first contact.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 14:46
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:How did they find anything in space at all? For a story. Showing weeks and weeks and months of scanning empty space until finding something that stands out would be realistic and boring. So let me understand: - the reason that nobody found the base where the Vengeance was being constructed (next to Jupiter) was because space is big. - the reason that nobody saw the battle between the Enterprise and the Vengeance next to the Moon was because space is big. - the reason the Klingons didn't see the Enterprise right next to their homeworld was because space is big. - the reason a small ship that Khan was on is found was because space is big. Please explain this to me.  computer parts posted:Late 1900s, which doesn't make sense but it's Trek canon so roll with it. Perhaps I didn't explain the analogy very well. In the film, they say Khan was frozen 300 years before. The equivalent would be us finding someone who was frozen in the early 1700s. Unless you woke up DaVinci (yes I know earlier time), why would you say "hey, you'd be useful for designing our new starship"? Khan was a ruler, not a techie. Khan being intelligent does not mean that he would be useful for weapons design. As a warlord, you might co-opt him for (say) propaganda campaigns to get the Federation to want to declare war on the Klingons without a proper casus belli, or have him be an administrator or something. VVVV - but that doesn't mean he would be any good at it. We know he is because there are long-range torpedoes and a giant starship. "More intelligent" does not translate to being better at everything since there are many different kinds of intelligence. If he's supposed to be a genius at tech stuff, why couldn't he figure out how to defrost his followers? monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jun 3, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 15:00
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:Unless you woke up DaVinci (yes I know earlier time), why would you say "hey, you'd be useful for designing our new starship"? Khan was a ruler, not a techie. Khan being intelligent does not mean that he would be useful for weapons design. As a warlord, you might co-opt him for (say) propaganda campaigns to get the Federation to want to declare war on the Klingons without a proper casus belli, or have him be an administrator or something. Khan straight up says that he is better at everything. That his limitless potential was used on weapon development says more about Admiral Robocop than it does about him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 15:38
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:So how did they find Khan? It's all about moving the plot. I mean how many episodes where there when the Enterprise is just chillin across the universe when they find X that has Y inside it? ie: Masks(S7E17)or Transfigurations (S3E25) As for defrosting him I would guess since he had access to so many scientists / researchers they just figured it out? monster on a stick posted:- the reason that nobody found the base where the Vengeance was being constructed (next to Jupiter) was because space is big. I'd imagine some people probably saw it but do we know if the area was restricted for civilian travel? The officer that arranged it could've made it look like the facility was for some other kind of weapons project / research. I mean it looks like his area of expertise was geared towards weapons development so it would be plausible that he would want a facility that was away from the earth and other StarFleet facilities.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:So let me understand: I think you're just being deliberately obtuse for some reason, so I don't really think I need to go into detail. The only point I was making was about the Vengeance construction and Khan, none of the rest. Did you not understand the naval analogy that if you're searching unknown and enemy territory, you are probably NOT searching next door as well?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
monster on a stick posted:Please explain this to me. For some issues the vastness of space is a perfectly reasonable explanation. Combine that with a limitation of sensor capabilities and you have an excuse for a lot of things. JJTrek ships don't seem to have the TNG style "know everything that is happening within a dozen light years" sensors. The ships in the movies only seem to know what's going on in their immediate vicinity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2013 15:53
|
|