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CaptainScraps posted:poo poo yeah. Those guys are scum. At least they're not granting legitimacy to a fundamentally broken criminal justice system through their participation in it, like those public defender pigs.
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# ? Jun 13, 2013 23:21 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:34 |
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Take that PTO, BIG GOVERNMENT trying to steal my genes.
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# ? Jun 13, 2013 23:41 |
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TenementFunster posted:Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Novelty Star Trek Cufflinks and Extended Holocaust Analogies This thread. Alaemon posted:You're not alone. Insulating corporations from liability is fine for the people that do it, but I'm not one of them. I've had one corporate client and I found the experience one of the most demoralizing things I've done. I even found studying Torts was a bit soul crushing when you're reading modern cases where the insurance company is arguing to avoid having to payout. Ie: anything that wasn't a snail in a ginger beer bottle. Actually, a different type of suffering than rape. Rape just made me feel cold and taught me not to care about my clients. Well, and obviously the laws of consent. Torts just made me sad.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 00:47 |
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Alaemon posted:You're not alone. Insulating corporations from liability is fine for the people that do it, but I'm not one of them. I've had one corporate client and I found the experience one of the most demoralizing things I've done. That's what I'm doing right now, but I legitimately don't think they did anything bad so I'm ok with it. I've lucked out on not getting on the side I dislike of cases.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 00:59 |
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Tetrix posted:Take that PTO, BIG GOVERNMENT trying to steal my genes. Man if we could just straight up 101 everything, my job would be so much easier.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 01:20 |
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Man if we could just straight up 101 everything, my job would be so much easier. I just do anyway.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 01:27 |
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Man if we could just straight up 101 everything, my job would be so much easier.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 01:43 |
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gvibes posted:Fortunately, the Federal Circuit has recently clarified the scope of patentable subject matter in a recent, clear, and concise en banc opinion. I kind of like it. 101 everything and hope you draw the right circuit panel.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 03:12 |
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Sir John Falstaff posted:At least they're not granting legitimacy to a fundamentally broken criminal justice system through their participation in it, like those public defender pigs. What are you doing in my interior monologue?
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 04:44 |
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evilweasel posted:That's what I'm doing right now, but I legitimately don't think they did anything bad so I'm ok with it. I've lucked out on not getting on the side I dislike of cases. For one matter I've got I'm on a side I friggin DETEST and it's amazing how easy it gets to shut that off.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 06:16 |
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sigmachiev posted:For one matter I've got I'm on a side I friggin DETEST and it's amazing how easy it gets to shut that off. Reminds me of the colonialists in"Kung Leopold's Ghost."
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 06:50 |
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Man if we could just straight up 101 everything, my job would be so much easier. Any idea if the USPTO is going to be hiring again any time soon? I suspect with the budget cuts it's not likely. I can't find any other way to get the requisite two years of experience that every firm in the country expects me to have before they'll even let me in the door for an interview.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 14:29 |
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One of my colleagues just brought her three week old baby into the office for the day so she could clean up her files.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 15:28 |
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the milk machine posted:I believe the issue is that working insurance defense, you are sure to eventually represent a soulless corporation against an individual who legitimately got their life screwed up by that company's negligence, and probably win. So if anything, I find that plaintiffs are taking advantage of the law. It's not uncommon to find out that the guy who supposedly hurt himself on the job actually hurt himself the day before at a party and then came into work and "ow my knee!". Sometimes, it's lovely fly-by-night contractors that hire undocumented workers, give them lovely ladders and no safety equipment, and then go out of business when you sue them. But mostly it's lying liars who are trying to cash out of a backbreaking line of work. I used to do some premises work and that was a whole other ballgame. Yeah there were guys who claimed to trip over a 1/16" gap in the sidewalk and never mind my long history of knee injuries and degenerative arthritis, everything was just peachy until that dangerous sidewalk came around. But more often, it was shifty assholes running deathtrap apartment buildings, weighing the value of the most basic maintenance against how much of a hit their premiums would take if a kid falls down the garbage-strewn stairs. gently caress those guys. Omerta posted:I'm surprised he said he works great hours. The ID guys I know all worked a ton because their billable rate was crazy low -- like $130 for an equity partner.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 18:31 |
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Interlude posted:Plus, with a huge caseload, you're double, triple, or even quintuple billing a lot of the times you're in court. Isn't that an ethical violation? \/\/\/\/ Not sure you're right about that one. . . quote:The practice of "padding" billing records and "double-billing" – that is, billing the same work or time to two or more clients – is clearly prohibited. http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/professional_responsibility/when_two_plus_two.authcheckdam.pdf See: quote:In addressing the hypotheticals regarding (a) simultaneous appearance on behalf of three clients, (b) the airplane flight on behalf of one client while working on another client's matters and (c) recycled work product, it is helpful to consider these questions, not from the perspective of what a client could be forced to pay, but rather from the perspective of what the lawyer actually earned. A lawyer who spends four hours of time on behalf of three clients has not earned twelve billable hours. http://www.thenalfa.org/files/ABA_Formal_Opinion_93-379.pdf Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 14, 2013 |
# ? Jun 14, 2013 18:45 |
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Sir John Falstaff posted:Isn't that an ethical violation?
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 19:06 |
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Interlude posted:That's basically our associate rate, but it varies greatly from client to client. How the hell do you make money if you're billing associates out at 130/hour? How much do you guys pay your associates?
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 19:13 |
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HiddenReplaced posted:How the hell do you make money if you're billing associates out at 130/hour? How much do you guys pay your associates? Seriously. I'm pretty sure we bill out our paralegals at more than that.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 19:54 |
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 20:11 |
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Yeah technically by the ABA rules (which are model rules remember) if you're billing multiple clients for the same time for traveling or court appearances, you're supposed to have some kind of agreed travel rate (that is lower than your billable rate) or split the time between the clients. So if you charge $300/hr and you are in court for three hours for three different files, you should bill each client $300 ($100/hr). Obviously it can be more complicated, like if you are actually drafting a pleading for one client while traveling or are spending 1.5 hours actively arguing one case in court while the others only took 10 minutes each. But I'm pretty sure that actively double or triple billing, as in charging $900 per hour that you are in court or billing two clients for time spent on a plane--one for travel time and the other for drafting time--is unethical. Phil Moscowitz fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 14, 2013 |
# ? Jun 14, 2013 20:19 |
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crim law best law
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 20:20 |
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Kalman posted:Seriously. I'm pretty sure we bill out our paralegals at more than that. We bill our secretaries out at about 100 when they do substantive work, I think
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 20:21 |
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oh my god I just saw evidence of a secret workplace relationship between two senior attorneys in the hallway and OMG I'm a high school girl
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:04 |
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HiddenReplaced posted:How the hell do you make money if you're billing associates out at 130/hour? How much do you guys pay your associates? This is absolutely not the case at all insurance defense/coverage firms. Wilson Elser, the largest, is known for working associates into the ground for less money than we pay. However, their biggest partners rake in a lot of cash. Conversely, some plaintiff's firms I know of don't even give their associates health insurance or vacation time. Sad part is that there are people graduating T1 schools that would kill for a job at Wilson Elser.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:05 |
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I dont see how volume helps. I mean, yes, I may only have 5-10 cases at a time, but I will bill my 2000 hours a year to those cases - each one just needs more time. Case volume is completely irrelevant.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:12 |
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Yeah technically by the ABA rules (which are model rules remember) if you're billing multiple clients for the same time for traveling or court appearances, you're supposed to have some kind of agreed travel rate (that is lower than your billable rate) or split the time between the clients. So if you charge $300/hr and you are in court for three hours for three different files, you should bill each client $300 ($100/hr). Obviously it can be more complicated, like if you are actually drafting a pleading for one client while traveling or are spending 1.5 hours actively arguing one case in court while the others only took 10 minutes each.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:13 |
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Advanced Holocaust Metaphors, Cufflink Clown Chat, and Open Discussion of Ethical Violations as Accepted Business Practice.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:18 |
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Kalman posted:I dont see how volume helps. I mean, yes, I may only have 5-10 cases at a time, but I will bill my 2000 hours a year to those cases - each one just needs more time. Case volume is completely irrelevant. Using that simple math, you can pay the associate $93,166. We pay some of them half that. Do the math for what your billing rate and salary are and I figure you're at about the same percentages.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:18 |
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TenementFunster posted:Advanced Holocaust Metaphors, Cufflink Clown Chat, and Open Discussion of Ethical Violations as Accepted Business Practice.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:22 |
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"PAULA"
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:23 |
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Interlude posted:Firm minimum is 2150 per year, though most bill more due to hours bonuses. 2150x$130 = $279,500. 1/3 goes to the partners, 1/3 to operations, and 1/3 to the associate. Bonuses are paid out of excess hours billed beyond the 2150. I am not even close. I wind up bringing in closer to 4.5x as much as I'm paid, even accounting for an 80% realization rate and a lockstep bonus.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:29 |
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Soothing Vapors posted:We bill our secretaries out at about 100 when they do substantive work, I think My 1L summer (paid! We all should miss 2007) I got billed out at a touch over $100/hr. And as a 1L I was basically useless.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:31 |
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Insurance defense firms unfortunately don't have the luxury of guaranteed business from large corporations whose management can't use cheaper firms because if they lose a case they'll be held accountable by their board of directors.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:39 |
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TenementFunster posted:Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Novelty Star Trek Cufflinks and Extended Holocaust Analogies This is the best one in a while TenementFunster posted:Advanced Holocaust Metaphors, Cufflink Clown Chat, and Open Discussion of Ethical Violations as Accepted Business Practice. Hahah okay never mind this one is better
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 22:02 |
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nm posted:My 1L summer (paid! We all should miss 2007) I got billed out at a touch over $100/hr. And as a 1L I was basically useless. I am trying to imagine the reaction from a client if I actually sent them a bill with summer associate or secretarial hours on it and giggling hysterically Kalman posted:I am not even close. I wind up bringing in closer to 4.5x as much as I'm paid, even accounting for an 80% realization rate and a lockstep bonus. I just did the math and I'm at about 4.1x. Law is fun!
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 22:03 |
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Soothing Vapors posted:Hahah okay never mind this one is better
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 22:17 |
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EDIT: nevermind. I'll just say upwards of 3x.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 00:13 |
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Look at you cute kids thinking fake hours and bill padding aren't endemic to the profession. Stay young with your bright eyes and unsullied hearts. I believe I once calculated that a colleague would have needed to have approximately 13.6 billable hours everyday/365 days a year in order to hit his stated numbers one year. Let's just say I also knew he wasn't working on weekends. Or nights. He was just the worst example of what I've seen. Others "bill" far less ("only" 2500-3000 hours a year), but are also in the office far less frequently than the first guy. Let me also say, I think this profession almost pushes people to it. You're either an inhuman freak who does not mind the punishment that 2500 billable hours really represents (if it is all legitimate), or, if you're like a lot of people, you find ways around it. Still one of my favorite articles of all time about the practice of law: http://www.vallexfund.com/download/Being_Happy_Healthy_Ethical_Member.pdf SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 00:25 |
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HiddenReplaced posted:How the hell do you make money if you're billing associates out at 130/hour? How much do you guys pay your associates? At my old job, I was billed at $35 an hour.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 01:35 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:34 |
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Green Crayons posted:"Law is a Noble Profession." - Seton Hall Law Professor, Paula A. Franzese, multiple times during a BarBri lecture video. Solid Lizzie fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 02:03 |