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Looks like they just posted this: http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/we-were-wrong quote:Where does this leave us?
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Jun 21, 2013 16:35
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Nikaer Drekin posted:Looks like they just posted this: Welp, I was wrong: Snowglobe of Doom posted:I bet that KS will just hunker down and ride it out. I guess when CNN starts reporting that you made it possible for a rape guide to get published it's a little hard to shrug it off. It sucks that the funding went through but I'm glad they decided to publicly admit that project was hosed up.
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Jun 21, 2013 16:52
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Welp, I was wrong: Reports from creators say it takes several weeks to get paid from Kickstarter, so I think they're not being entirely honest in their apology. They're doing it after the fact, so they get their cut, and hope it blows over. This way they get their money and look good. The damage has already been done.
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Jun 21, 2013 17:05
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Verdugo posted:Reports from creators say it takes several weeks to get paid from Kickstarter, so I think they're not being entirely honest in their apology. They're doing it after the fact, so they get their cut, and hope it blows over. This way they get their money and look good. The damage has already been done. Their cut is much less than the $25,000 they're donating to RAINN so it's obviously not JUST about the money, taking their cut they get to come out about $23,000 out of pocket rather than $25,000. Being charitable, while it may take several weeks for the cheques to be mailed, there may be some legal/bookkeeping reason not to just refund everyone, that is to say perhaps they now essentially have a legally binding contract to forward the money to the creator even if the actual act of doing the wire transfer or cutting a cheque hasn't happened. Maybe it's legally HIS money now, and refunding it would be stealing. I dunno if that's the case, but it's a possibility, sometimes once things are in motion you can't reasonably stop them without breaching a contract.
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Jun 21, 2013 17:09
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Behold, a kickstarter for... coin purses! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/407556923/sacco-first-coin-sack-on-kickstarter?ref=home_popular quote:Coins...Coins...Coins...are everywhere with us but in the era of minimalistic wallets we keep forgetting about them... but our coins are worth really money...parking meters accept coins....you can pay for the bus ticket...various vending machines coffee, coke...and the list is endless...So here we have Sacco a handful coin sack. It'll look marvelous with my wallet chain. 
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Jun 21, 2013 17:14
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Manifest posted:Behold, a kickstarter for... coin purses! He does know that small leather pouches already exist right? It irritates me to see people presenting their kickstarters as innovative new solutions to problems, problems that have already been solved....with the exact same solution! Just say that you're making a regular leather pouch but this one is nicer than the ones you can already get because it uses better materials/has better crafting/is cheaper/is more ethical or whatever. Don't pretend to have invented the wheel!
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Jun 21, 2013 17:19
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Fatkraken posted:He does know that small leather pouches already exist right? I have a nearly identical pouch that I keep my dignity and D&D dice in.
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Jun 21, 2013 17:20
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Verdugo posted:Gawker Media is an entertainment site, not a news site. It only serves to drive business for this guy. What exactly is your point? It brought wide attention to the issue before "news sites" did, but it doesn't count because it's "entertainment"? Who cares?
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Jun 21, 2013 17:42
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Verdugo posted:Reports from creators say it takes several weeks to get paid from Kickstarter, so I think they're not being entirely honest in their apology. They're doing it after the fact, so they get their cut, and hope it blows over. This way they get their money and look good. The damage has already been done. I would think the issue is that Kickstarter is a middleman between the project and Amazon payments. The project completes and I get an immediate notification from Amazon that I paid the project. I'm not sure Kickstarter even has the ability to reverse those transactions. How does Kickstarter get their cut anyways?
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Jun 21, 2013 18:00
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Leather? Man, I've moved on to canvas.
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Jun 21, 2013 18:15
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Verdugo posted:Gawker Media is an entertainment site, not a news site. It only serves to drive business for this guy. For better or worse (for worse), news and entertainment are the same thing now in our culture  .
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Jun 21, 2013 18:22
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Verdugo posted:Gawker Media is an entertainment site, not a news site. It only serves to drive business for this guy. Everyone should call out abhorrent views when they see them. News, entertainment, whatever, the author kicked off a shitstorm that got Kickstarter to publicly reject PUAs. The guy in question will likely benefit from the attention, but Kickstarter (and probably a lot of other sites who saw this happen) won't put up with his bullshit anymore.
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Jun 21, 2013 18:33
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Nikaer Drekin posted:Looks like they just posted this: Well that's a pleasant surprise. It's rare to see a company go from handwaving PR-speak to apologies, charitable donations, and panic in the course of a single day. I guess when Al Jazeera takes time away from reporting on government corruption, war, and poverty to write about your dumb, nerdy website stirring up a sexism shitstorm, it might be time to rethink your policies. That must feel like when a professor stops in the middle of working out a huge problem on the whiteboard just to turn around and stare at you with disgust. However, I refuse to believe that kickstarter only was notified 2 hours before the end of the project. I bet they had a thousand people report that campaign well before it blew up in the media.
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Jun 21, 2013 18:34
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Drunk Tomato posted:What exactly is your point? It brought wide attention to the issue before "news sites" did, but it doesn't count because it's "entertainment"? Who cares? My point is [and I said it pretty clearly in my original post] that all this posting served to do was bring attention to the book, and drive the guy's sales numbers. The creator WANTED negative coverage in Jezebel to help drive sales, to the point of harassing the writer, and they did it for him. She only wrote the entertainment piece because she was pissed off (or a willing collaborator). Are all entertainment bloggers news sources? They'd love to think so, I'm sure, but they aren't. PostNouveau posted:Everyone should call out abhorrent views when they see them. News, entertainment, whatever, the author kicked off a shitstorm that got Kickstarter to publicly reject PUAs. The guy in question will likely benefit from the attention, but Kickstarter (and probably a lot of other sites who saw this happen) won't put up with his bullshit anymore. Pickup artists and seddit and other reprehensible bullshit has existed for ages before this kickstarter, with similar outrage and then nothing. Once the media storm blows over, it's going to lapse back into disinterest. Sites have put up with this bullshit for years, and "reporting" on it hasn't made one iota of difference. All it serves in the long run is putting money in these slimeballs' pockets. Verdugo has a new favorite as of 19:05 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 19:01
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Verdugo posted:Pickup artists and seddit and other reprehensible bullshit has existed for ages before this kickstarter, with similar outrage and then nothing. Once the media storm blows over, it's going to lapse back into disinterest. Because the past has never changed, why would the future? That's the point you are making and I hope that putting it into plain words shows you how dumb it is.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:25
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Verdugo posted:My point is [and I said it pretty clearly in my original post] that all this posting served to do was bring attention to the book, and drive the guy's sales numbers. The creator WANTED negative coverage in Jezebel to help drive sales, to the point of harassing the writer, and they did it for him. She only wrote the entertainment piece because she was pissed off (or a willing collaborator). They've thrived for a pretty long time without any real coverage besides the books themselves. I'm pretty okay with people making articles about how lovely these people are.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:28
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Manifest posted:Behold, a kickstarter for... coin purses! It'll be perfect for when I travel to yon general store to buy potions and a +3 helm of wolf slaying.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:31
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JossiRossi posted:Because the past has never changed, why would the future? That's the point you are making and I hope that putting it into plain words shows you how dumb it is. I do not like thing, so we should run all sorts of infotainment articles about it, so people get mad, and so the thing gets even more publicity and makes the creator extra money, and it will have no net effect in the long run. I hope that putting that into plain words shows you how dumb it is after you drop your SJW pretense about this whole thing.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:41
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Verdugo posted:I do not like thing, so we should run all sorts of infotainment articles about it, so people get mad, and so the thing gets even more publicity and makes the creator extra money, and it will have no net effect in the long run. I hope that putting that into plain words shows you how dumb it is after you drop your SJW pretense about this whole thing. You are saying this literally right after Kickstarter took down the project page so he can't make anymore money and then donated $25k to a charity due to it. But yes, nothing at all positive has come out of it. Let's all just ignore problems because that's the best way to make them go away.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:43
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Verdugo posted:I do not like thing, so we should run all sorts of infotainment articles about it, so people get mad, and so the thing gets even more publicity and makes the creator extra money, and it will have no net effect in the long run. I hope that putting that into plain words shows you how dumb it is after you drop your SJW pretense about this whole thing. Did you forget the part where this guy has this incident following him forever, kickstarter has changed its policies to not allow seduction guides, and the money they're donating to charity? No but nobody should have reported it because one rear end in a top hat might get more money.  E: f. b. Sortof.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:47
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Verdugo posted:My point is [and I said it pretty clearly in my original post] that all this posting served to do was bring attention to the book, and drive the guy's sales numbers. The creator WANTED negative coverage in Jezebel to help drive sales, to the point of harassing the writer, and they did it for him. She only wrote the entertainment piece because she was pissed off (or a willing collaborator). I always dislike this argument. Yea every oh so edgy idiot who doesn't grasp that there's good and bad attention loves it when someone writes an article saying 'this guy's a huge rear end in a top hat', so what? A good article showing how lovely this book is could help others see 'oh yea this is a horrible way to view women'.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:48
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prahanormal posted:Did you forget the part where this guy has this incident following him forever, kickstarter has changed its policies to not allow seduction guides, and the money they're donating to charity? The guy doesn't CARE that he has the incident following him, he himself told Jezebel about it and wanted them to cover it with an angry article. Kickstarter changed its policies, but he doesn't care, because they let him through. And they are allegedly donating money to charity because of the backlash. So yay, they raised 25k for a rapist scumbag pickup artist, but they are giving 25k to charity TOO so it's ok! Tatum Girlparts posted:I always dislike this argument. Yea every oh so edgy idiot who doesn't grasp that there's good and bad attention loves it when someone writes an article saying 'this guy's a huge rear end in a top hat', so what? A good article showing how lovely this book is could help others see 'oh yea this is a horrible way to view women'. This loser subscribes to the "no such thing as bad publicity" angle, and it worked for him. Is there really a need to raise consciousness that "rape is wrong, pickup techniques are slimy?" Because people know that already. So it did absolutely nothing in the long run.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:26
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Verdugo posted:This loser subscribes to the "no such thing as bad publicity" angle, and it worked for him. Is there really a need to raise consciousness that "rape is wrong, pickup techniques are slimy?" quote:Because people know that already. So it did absolutely nothing in the long run.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:33
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PostNouveau posted:Everyone should call out abhorrent views when they see them. News, entertainment, whatever, the author kicked off a shitstorm that got Kickstarter to publicly reject PUAs. The guy in question will likely benefit from the attention, but Kickstarter (and probably a lot of other sites who saw this happen) won't put up with his bullshit anymore. I agree that people should call out abhorrent views but be careful with trying to get a mob going. http://arstechnica.com/staff/2013/03/donglegate-is-classic-overreaction-and-everyone-pays/ Edit: I am in no way relating the sexual assualt do it yourself book to the above posted incident. Im just commenting on how everyone calling out , waht to them is abhorrent view, can backfire if people do an immediate knee jerk reaction. Exmond has a new favorite as of 21:56 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 21:44
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Verdugo posted:So it did absolutely nothing in the long run. What part of "nobody will ever, eveeeeer be able to make a PUA kickstarter again" can't you understand? Or "We donated $25,000" to charity? How is that nothing? One guy got his money. The coverage didn't change that. But there's more to the story than that, which you are being deliberately ignorant of.
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Jun 21, 2013 22:24
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DStecks posted:What part of "nobody will ever, eveeeeer be able to make a PUA kickstarter again" can't you understand? Or "We donated $25,000" to charity? How is that nothing? Please read my previous post, and understand it before you give a knee jerk Social Justice Warrior reply. "The guy doesn't CARE that he has the incident following him, he himself told Jezebel about it and wanted them to cover it with an angry article. Kickstarter changed its policies, but he doesn't care, because they let him through. And they are allegedly donating money to charity because of the backlash. So yay, they raised 25k for a rapist scumbag pickup artist, but they are giving 25k to charity TOO so it's ok!" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 21, 2013 22:33
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Hey man, not all of us who are against books on how to rape people are 'social justice warriors', kind of obnoxious of you to keep throwing that around. Also your post makes no sense at all, you're still deliberately ignoring the rest of the content of the post.
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Jun 21, 2013 22:43
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Exmond posted:I agree that people should call out abhorrent views but be careful with trying to get a mob going. Vigorous discussion of social issues is always a good thing. But, sure, people should think it over carefully before they decide what corrective actions should be taken. It's not the discussion that caused all the trouble in that case; it was overreactions like publishing photos of people, firing employees and DDOS attacks. I can sympathize with Kickstarter's lack of time on this one. Two hours doesn't seem like enough time for a firm to adjust its policies, and eventually they came to the right decision.
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Jun 21, 2013 23:05
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Verdugo posted:"The guy doesn't CARE that he has the incident following him, he himself told Jezebel about it and wanted them to cover it with an angry article. Kickstarter changed its policies, but he doesn't care, because they let him through. And they are allegedly donating money to charity because of the backlash. So yay, they raised 25k for a rapist scumbag pickup artist, but they are giving 25k to charity TOO so it's ok!" What the gently caress does it matter what he cares? He may have won the battle for PUA, but he cost them the war. Ultimately, he is just one instance of a greater problem, one that is being brought to light by people publicizing this incident. So gently caress it, give him the 25k! His kickstarter has helped to publicize how skeevy the PUA community is in the mainstream, by showing everybody just how close it is to being straight-up rape. Verdugo posted:And they are allegedly donating money to charity because of the backlash. So yay, they raised 25k for a rapist scumbag pickup artist, but they are giving 25k to charity TOO so it's ok!" First of all, they didn't raise the money for him, he did. They have zero obligation to donate the money, money which, unlike the money that went to him, is coming directly out of Kickstarter's pocket. You refuse to acknowledge that good has come of this because it doesn't fit your neat little worldview where publicizing issues is just feeding the flames, and that problems will just resolve themselves given time; a situation which has happened precisely zero times. Workers rights only came about because the unions raised a stink. Women got the vote because the suffrage movement raised a stink. Civil Rights came about because MLK and other activists raised a stink. Gay rights are only coming about because people are raising a stink. Get real.
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Jun 21, 2013 23:11
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm Why would you want this? Even if you think it's a cool tech app, why? Grab a cockroach, cut off its antennae, attach a microcontroller to its back, and make it move left and right for ten minutes?
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Jun 21, 2013 23:22
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Exmond posted:I agree that people should call out abhorrent views but be careful with trying to get a mob going. I stopped reading this article here: quote:The "Boy’s Club” mentality is thankfully no longer acceptable in tech
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Jun 21, 2013 23:25
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:I stopped reading this article here: I assume they meant it as "no longer openly acceptable, kinda"
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Jun 21, 2013 23:46
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:I stopped reading this article here:
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Jun 21, 2013 23:48
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Sono posted:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm I think you have the wrong thread, mister. That right there is pretty great.
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Jun 21, 2013 23:52
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:If people haven't been reading the other thread here's an article about KS's response to the backlash and their explanation as to why they didn't shut it down before it ended. Basically the guy kept the really creepy stuff out of the KS description and they decided that they couldn't use off-site stuff to influence their decision. Weeeeeeaksauce. Saying they couldn't use offsite info is pretty flimsy. If You look at a KS and see the one running it has posted Date Rape advice elsewhere and is raising money for a 'seduction' guide on your site, you shut them the gently caress down as a safety precaution. Even if they were making something legitimate it's the same reason why you'd distance yourself from hate groups. Their eventual apology doesn't excuse them in the slightest for being this stupid. The General posted:I'm not sure what any of this means other than KSs official policy is "We don't give a poo poo, because we get money." Pretty much. People can argue that pulling it down even if they only knew with two hours to go (which is a bullshit excuse) could have been negative for them if they hosed up, but sometimes you need to err on the side of caution. If they had been wrong then the worst case scenario is they say they had pulled it due to concerns over the topic and then roll out the "we're not allowing these guides, sorry" information. PostNouveau posted:Ugh. That's pretty much exactly what that tool wants, more publicity. He asked a Jezebel author to call him out when he started the Kickstarter. I hope he gets doxx'd and followed around for awhile at bars and clubs so that he can get charged for his next assault, or he puts the wrong person's hand on his dick and they rip it right off his body. TheJoker138 posted:You are saying this literally right after Kickstarter took down the project page so he can't make anymore money and then donated $25k to a charity due to it. But yes, nothing at all positive has come out of it. Let's all just ignore problems because that's the best way to make them go away. He couldn't make more money from it because the kickstarter ended and he got all the money it raised. He also now has a lot of articles on various websites to essentially advertise him to the PUA community that doesn't already live on reddit. Maybe one day this guy might care about this incident but don't hold your breath on it being some horrible loss for him. Having it 'ruin' his life would be more likely to make him popular in that community as some lovely martyr, a victim of the fempire.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:01
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Orzo posted:Why? They're right: it is no longer acceptable, but is unfortunately still common. Which is exactly what the article says. If people say it's unacceptable, but it's still a commonplace thing, then yes, it clearly is considered acceptable. Actions speak louder than words.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:21
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prahanormal posted:I think you have the wrong thread, mister. That right there is pretty great. While indeed it's pretty great from the technological point of view, I feel queasy about the application. What is the purpose of this, what kind of sense does it have - why would you order something like that? If you'll indeed need it, as you're delving into world of neurology, and yes, if it actually serves a purpose I might be fine with it. Otherwise, no, not really - and I guess the problem I've got here mostly is that people will use these things for fun.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:32
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TheJoker138 posted:You are saying this literally right after Kickstarter took down the project page so he can't make anymore money and then donated $25k to a charity due to it. But yes, nothing at all positive has come out of it. Let's all just ignore problems because that's the best way to make them go away. Technically speaking they donated it to RAINN. EDIT: Disappointing that they missed the window of opportunity to shitcan the project, given the public outcry to that tentacle trading card game. StevenM has a new favorite as of 00:55 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 00:43
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StevenM posted:Technically speaking they donated it to RAINN. Oh good, some MRA bullshit. Just what this thread needed. In more on-topic news, someone gave $600 to this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taeshi/not-enough-rings-a-sonic-the-hedgehog-parody-comic?ref=recently_launched  Responding to the obvious question, isn't this infringement: quote:Is this cool, legally speaking?
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Jun 22, 2013 01:14
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DStecks posted:What the gently caress does it matter what he cares? He may have won the battle for PUA, but he cost them the war. Ultimately, he is just one instance of a greater problem, one that is being brought to light by people publicizing this incident. So gently caress it, give him the 25k! His kickstarter has helped to publicize how skeevy the PUA community is in the mainstream, by showing everybody just how close it is to being straight-up rape. Another positive outcome is that PUA techniques only have a chance of working (apparently they work occasionally) if the women being targeted aren't familiar with them. Thanks to the mass media reporting on this Kickstarter project there's been possibly hundreds of thousands of woman who have been alerted to PUA techniques for the first time and now know to shut these guys down immediately when they spot them. We've even had a few goons over in the other thread go "Huh, so that explains that one time that a guy said these really weird things to me."
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Jun 22, 2013 02:52
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