Let's solve a 40 year old unsolved treasure hunt!

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Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Typh posted:

Cask 9 - THE LAMP IS NOT UNIQUE
Confirmed via the vector artist that copies of the lamp base exist in Palermo, Sicily.

These things could be everywhere.

Great work, thank you.

My sister is currently in Berlin, but will be in Florence next week. She didn't recognize the motif, but she'll look around a bit.

What bugs me about this is that I know I've seen it (the legeater) somewhere, but can't remember where. I visited Montreal with my family when I was 9 but I'm sure we didn't go to the Mount Stephen Club. My wife also recognized it (but also can't figure out where) and she's never been to Montreal.

I knew it couldn't be unique, but I couldn't figure out where else they were.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:13

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 13:03

xie: Jul 29, 2004; I GET UPSET WHEN PEOPLE SPEND THEIR MONEY ON WASTEFUL THINGS THAT I DONT APPROVE OF

Boston - Image 11/Verse 3I think that the face the water/back to the stairs/feel at home thing is pretty good. The Chicago verse contained such a similar clue to a bordering street, and this one really rings similarly.

Digging locations are omni directional, it doesn't matter what way you face to dig a hole. However, facing Waterhouse St is the only way to see the Sheraton Commander sign. If you've seen the sign & are a believer in the site, it's hard to imagine it being anything else.

The only location I could find yesterday was by the Civil War Memorial. That's the best spot to see both the sign & the correct angle of the church. Actually, it's a bit north of it. Tree cover has changed dramatically in 30 years, so you have to extrapolate how it looks in Autumn.

There are also stairs on the memorial, and a small 2 bush island right next to it which may be a candidate, though it's not grass.

The lighting in the park is 100% different than it was in the 70s at least, and some of the lamps are very recent LEDs. I can't find anything that may have been a green tower, but pics from the 80s seem to be hard to come by.

It is possible that the Church of Christ Scientist building is the tower, but I haven't seen it at night and tend to doubt it, as lights is plural. Maybe, I need to see it at night.

I have no problem with any other line in the poem except the obvious T/X part which is really really difficult to try and assign to anything.

I imagine there is no specific reason for the green tower of lights to also be the 'lit by lamplight' - they could be different.

xie fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 24, 2013

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:25

einTier: Sep 25, 2003; Charming, friendly, and possessed by demons.
Approach with caution.

Typh posted:

Dick Mothafuckin' Tracy

It's poo poo like this that makes me love these forums. There may be a lot misdirection and squabbling and a lot to read over these past few pages, but we've got some dedicated and tenacious internet detectives here.

If the SA forums can't find a cask, I doubt they'll ever be found.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:30

The Monkey Man: Jun 10, 2012; HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT

It's entirely possible that there was a legeater near cask 9 that isn't there anymore. Still, I wouldn't rule Montreal out- I'd just keep an eye out for some others.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:32

rookhunter: Jun 14, 2013

MassaShowtime posted:

That's awesome work.

Yep. It's crazy to see the legeater in all those spots!

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:42

Bard: May 18, 2007; A little of this, a little of that...

Cask 2 - Charleston

There's a large bridge in Charleston that crosses the Cooper River, which was built in 2002 to replace the Pearman brige. Connection with the pear in the image? The Pearman bridge was torn down in 2005, however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ravenel_Jr._Bridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silas_N._Pearman_Bridge

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:58

Nesetril: Sep 7, 2005

Boston

I think we are getting close on this one. Here are a couple of random things I found:

There is a granite marker in the cemetery that borders CC, which says: "8 miles to Boston 1734 A.1". I don't know how this could work, but I'm still trying to figure out "five steps" from Boston or whatever.
The route that Dawes took is pretty much the opposite of our version of the path corresponding to the coliseum. He went from Boston to Lexington.
Cambridge Historical Society flickr. Maybe something can be mined out of it.

Right now my pet theory is that the oculus matches one of the cannon muzzles. I can only find pictures of two of three muzzles; one is smooth and one is scuffed up. The third one that I can't find a picture for points at the church with the lamp logo. A clue like this could potentially make the digging site somewhere in the southern part of CC, opposite the church.

Perhaps, we should start thinking about GPRing a few spots in the park?

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:21

Urban Smurf: Jun 12, 2013; Take this avatar, rotate it 180 degrees, mirror it, mark a point from the tip of the dogs noses and you will see it will line up to this image of the centaurs tail "exactly."

Bard posted:

Cask 2 - Charleston

There's a large bridge in Charleston that crosses the Cooper River, which was built in 2002 to replace the Pearman brige. Connection with the pear in the image? The Pearman bridge was torn down in 2005, however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ravenel_Jr._Bridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silas_N._Pearman_Bridge

I discovered something of possible connection to the line in verse 6 "Or May 1913".

The Pearman Bridge was built as an expansion to run alongside the John P. Grace Memorial Bridge. John P. Grace was Mayor from 1911 to 1915. I've wondered if the line is to be read as [Charleston] "Mayor 1913". Could the Pearman Bridge be a neighbor clue to the John P. Grace? I couldn't turn up anything noteworthy on this, maybe someone else might.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:26

Merlot Brougham: Dec 16, 2004; The White Darryl Strawberry; Salad Prong

Cask 9, Montreal(?)

The Monkey Man posted:

It's entirely possible that there was a legeater near cask 9 that isn't there anymore. Still, I wouldn't rule Montreal out- I'd just keep an eye out for some others.

I agree that this is exciting news and opens up new possibilities.

There are a few things we need to remember in light of this discovery. Namely, Preiss said that there was a cask in Canada, and the coordinates in the image still strongly suggest Montreal.

I'm open to other possibilities for sure, but if another North American legeater is discovered, it's likely to be in Canada, or more specifically, Montreal. If it turns up elsewhere, then we need to start reassessing which image matches up with Canada.

Time to revive the Terry Fox/legeater, sleeping giant in Thunder Bay, Ontario/ridges on his hat theory. Smurf, you got my back?

I'm still inclined to lean on Montreal as the best option given current evidence, but I'd really like to see another legeater in North America.

Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 24, 2013

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:27

Guuse: May 11, 2009

Typh posted:

Cask 9 - THE LEGEATER IS NOT UNIQUE
Confirmed via the vector artist that copies of the lamp base exist in Palermo, Sicily.

These things could be everywhere.

Wow, that came together quick. Pretty awesome work!

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:28

Corek: May 11, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:

xie may be a bit surprised since I spent most of our time together shooting down this idea, but the more that I think about it the more that it has to recommend it. There certainly ARE a lot of things around the Common that fit both picture 11 and verse 3. I think that if there were one or two more things that we could piece together I would be more sure that we even have the right city.

Here are my thoughts. The two most Boston clues are the Xenophon/Thucydides and the 18 day 12th hour quote. Her left side hair also has what appears to be wharves and looking through all the major port cities in the US and Canada for anything that is an exact match (or even a better match) finds nothing in 2013. It seems that this may be a port city from this. 42 latitude can be seen on her left armband and the top of her right panel can be made into a 71, giving long/lat though obviously not a slam dunk.

Verse 3

I cannot fit the five steps in. I cannot figure out the green tower of lights. The Coliseum could be the Harvard Coliseum with its metal fence along North Harvard Street. The middle section could be the Dawes Island/Cambridge Common which is between major streets. Waterhouse is the street on the north of the Commons which could fit with face the water and feel at home. There is also a baseball diamond which could be "feel at home." There are a lot of steps around so that's not helpful but there's a lot of choices. The 18th day 12th hour could just mean the Revere quote or could be related to Longfellow himself - a relative designed a gate a Harvard and his "letters" are stored at the Houghton library a short distance away. Likewise, there is a large sign (Sheraton Commander) that could be "all the letters" related. The Common/island is across the street from the first Universalist Unitarian church with the lamp as its logo. This is all right across the street from a Harvard gate with John 8:38 and the baseball diamond is right next to a Washington memorial (the exact "in truth, be free" was in a writing dedicated to him). Lincoln also has a monument so he is another truth contender.

Image 11

I think that if I had one more fit I would be happier here. There is the "4" in similar font to the east bordering the park. There is a similar set of towers on top of the Entworth Methodist Church on the northeast corner. The design on the fairy wings is common but shows up several places around the area (on the Unitarian Church and on the street lamps). The checkerboard motif and the striped arch show up on lots of architecture. There are some suggestions in the picture but no other exact matches. The light area on her right sleeve could be home plate. The wing of the hawk could be the shape of the Dawes Island.

I would like to think that several aspects of the painting have meaning. The 112(2). The hawk. The oculus. The globes. The design on her dress. The bubbles. Maybe with this information someone else can match something in the area.

I can confirm that there is a Mississippi Kite at the Harvard Museum of Natural History, which was asked about earlier. There are also many other hawks and eagles there. I also visited the closed gate with the bible verse; the ground is rather lumpy all around it, but that could be nothing. They just remodeled the Science Plaza next to the gate. The gate faces stairs to a dorm building.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:32

Nesetril: Sep 7, 2005

TotalHell posted:

this post and some preceding ones

The Pearman bridge has been brought up before. Just wanted to point this out, in case you missed it.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:33

Urban Smurf: Jun 12, 2013; Take this avatar, rotate it 180 degrees, mirror it, mark a point from the tip of the dogs noses and you will see it will line up to this image of the centaurs tail "exactly."

Cask 9 Verse 10, Crazy Vancouver BC theory (6/24/13)

Sorry Merlot, I can't back you up on that, I'm more inclined to go with the Terry Gilliam/Midgets Abounding through Time and Napoleon's checkers playing robotic monkey idea.

In response to the non-Montreal specific Legeater theory, if it is indeed just a Cougar-head gobbling the leg of a deer/goat, you might like the significant story about the Cougar of Stanley Park which was eating their prize angora goats. See the chapter in this PDF on the particulars: http://archive.org/details/ByShoreAndTrailInStanleyPark

And check out this sort of final area where lots of things come together. I feel this is close to the cask. There's three giant outdoor checkerboards that aren't easy to see from the street.

From a polaroid from the street perspective, that roofline fits perfectly the shoulders.

I have ideas on the Natives and Hard word. Hard and Harding aren't so different, you can add -ing to anything right?

This cover is only a visual aid. It's actually from 1997.

and this,

The Harding memorial in Stanley Park was dedicated by the Kiwanis organization. Kiwanis is a Native American word for "we meet/share". The verse very accurately describes this location: The natives still remember / Him of Hard word in 3 Vol. I think I might have already posted the link about this firm connection to the 3 volume set of presidential speeches. http://www.amazon.com/Messages-Presidents-1790-1966-Complete-Volume/dp/B000IJRZ56

this is the Lumberman's Arch, it has been discussed at Q4T that it isn't an exact match, and I agree, yet it still draws me in like the Palencar flower has somekind of fingerprint of this tree base. Upper left is from 1967, upper right is from 2010.

Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:34

SixFigureSandwich: Oct 30, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Merlot Brougham posted:

Montreal

The coordinates of Montreal have been pointed out in the image, but some people seem to disagree. I am firmly in the Montreal camp.

Also, the Boer War monument in Dorchester Square for the Netherlands connection.

In the decade following World War II, about 550,000 Dutch people emigrated to Canada, Australia and New Zealand, so there's another (somewhat tenuous) connection.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:36

The Monkey Man: Jun 10, 2012; HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT

Canadian troops also liberated Holland in World War II, so there's another connection.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:56

Nesetril: Sep 7, 2005

Montreal - checkerboard

I realize that much better interpretations of the checkerboard have been proposed, but in the interest of being exhaustive, it is also a road sign.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 22:56

Urban Smurf: Jun 12, 2013; Take this avatar, rotate it 180 degrees, mirror it, mark a point from the tip of the dogs noses and you will see it will line up to this image of the centaurs tail "exactly."

Nesetril posted:

Montreal - checkerboard

I realize that much better interpretations of the checkerboard have been proposed, but in the interest of being exhaustive, it is also a road sign.

I found two reasons for the checkers gameboards in Vancouver: 1) there are three together forming a "V" and there's three distinct checkers areas on the man's robe, 2) simple roots in soil = squares, being that square roots are the simplest of the roots X^1/n where n=2 and n>2 is harder, so when I see squares in the dirt, I've got something better than a street sign on a pole.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 23:08

xie: Jul 29, 2004; I GET UPSET WHEN PEOPLE SPEND THEIR MONEY ON WASTEFUL THINGS THAT I DONT APPROVE OF

Saying that Preiss said there's one in Canada is totally useless, as he also said the same about St. Louis. Either could be true, neither could be true, or both could be true somehow. It's ridiculous to say "St. Louis means Louis Armstrong, but he definitely was serious about Canada."

Canada also doesn't mean Montreal, and as we're now down to 0-.5 images (the legeater may not be unique, but it has been spotted in Montreal) there isn't a lot tying it there for real.

There's no need to dig through pictures of things on Cambridge Common, I can go there any day of the week (was there again yesterday just showing a friend around Harvard) and take whatever pictures you'd like.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 23:24

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

McIneri posted:

The black thing was built during WW2 so we are ok there. It's part of the modernization efforts they made to our coastal defenses at the time.

You're talking about the huge black structure in the middle, right? The website for Fort Sumter says it was built in 1898.

xie posted:

I have no problem with any other line in the poem except the obvious T/X part which is really really difficult to try and assign to anything.

Where the two names appear, where are they in respect to each other? Is Thucydides north of Xenophon? If not, how are they oriented and would anything line up if you rotated the map so that Thucydides was due north of Xenophon?

# ? Jun 24, 2013 23:31

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

xie posted:

Saying that Preiss said there's one in Canada is totally useless, as he also said the same about St. Louis. Either could be true, neither could be true, or both could be true somehow. It's ridiculous to say "St. Louis means Louis Armstrong, but he definitely was serious about Canada."

Canada also doesn't mean Montreal, and as we're now down to 0-.5 images (the legeater may not be unique, but it has been spotted in Montreal) there isn't a lot tying it there for real.

There's no need to dig through pictures of things on Cambridge Common, I can go there any day of the week (was there again yesterday just showing a friend around Harvard) and take whatever pictures you'd like.

The book makes a big deal out of Vancouver. That would be my first pick for a Canadian city.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 23:35

wa27: Jan 15, 2007

Urban Smurf posted:

In response to the non-Montreal specific Legeater theory, if it is indeed just a Cougar-head gobbling the leg of a deer/goat, you might like the significant story about the Cougar of Stanley Park which was eating their prize angora goats. See the chapter in this PDF on the particulars: http://archive.org/details/ByShoreAndTrailInStanleyPark

It's pretty obvious that the legeater in the drawing is a reference to a physical legeater (probably on the base of a lamp), even if it's not the one in Montreal. There's no way it was drawn as a vague reference to some story about a cougar eating goats, but just so happened to end up looking exactly like a piece of metalwork.

Unless that park used to have a legeater lamp in it.

edit:

Urban Smurf posted:

I found two reasons for the checkers gameboards in Vancouver: 1) there are three together forming a "V" and there's three distinct checkers areas on the man's robe, 2) simple roots in soil = squares, being that square roots are the simplest of the roots X^1/n where n=2 and n>2 is harder, so when I see squares in the dirt, I've got something better than a street sign on a pole.

Well this is just hilarious. Never stop posting your theories in here.

wa27 fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 24, 2013

# ? Jun 24, 2013 23:36

I. M. Gei: Jun 26, 2005; CHIEFS

BITCH

rebounded posted:

If you are contracting a company to do this for you, I think you should have some expectations of cost. If your contractor isn't responsible for a report, permits, or any insurance requirements; if they're local & don't have anything better to do, expect a $150/hr ballpark. Anyone busy is going to charge a half-day minimum. If you're a good salesman maybe you can talk them into doing it for free as a marketing item, but I doubt it.

Not trying to be a jerk, but if someone called me and said they were looking for a treasure and wanted a "GPR scan" I'd require cash up front and really drive home how limited this can be - it isn't a silver bullet. I've done this looking for a county courthouse's lost time capsules, Cortez's gold and Japanese caches in the Philippines. "Treasure hunts" we always groan about and get paid in advance. Good luck, just wanted to warn you ahead of time.

You can rent the gear for a few hundred bucks a day, if you know how to use it and have some insurance or will sign a lease contract and offer a deposit.

Yeah, I just tried calling a guy and he said it'd be something like $2000 to scan over an area of around 500 sq ft. Sooo that sucks. :smith:

rookhunter posted:

Maybe a local school with a GPR might be willing to do a scan for us.

I'm starting to think this may be the avenue to look into.

einTier posted:

bunch of stuff

Wow you are making it really hard for me to keep a lid on myself here.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:03

Abugadu: Jul 12, 2004; 1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

wa27 posted:

It's pretty obvious that the legeater in the drawing is a reference to a physical legeater (probably on the base of a lamp), even if it's not the one in Montreal. There's no way it was drawn as a vague reference to some story about a cougar eating goats, but just so happened to end up looking exactly like a piece of metalwork.

Unless that park used to have a legeater lamp in it.

edit:

Well this is just hilarious. Never stop posting your theories in here.

Meh, the checkerboard stuff in Vancouver looks 10x more promising than anything the Montreal proposals have put together, in my mind. Montreal's progress has basically been legeater + jamming square pegs into round holes for clues, and now we know the legeater isn't unique, so....

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:14

The Monkey Man: Jun 10, 2012; HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT

Did we get a good estimate of when the legeater lamp was built? Wikipedia says that Vancouver wasn't even incorporated as a city until 1886. If Cask 9 is in Vancouver and the legeater's a specific clue, it would probably be in the oldest part of town. And the legeater may be a clue that's not there anymore.

EDIT: George Vancouver, the city's namesake, was of Dutch origin. I should've guessed from the "Van."

Oh, and the square that the legeater cuts through also resembles this monument in Vancouver that Urban Smurf posted earlier. The legeater cuts through the square at about the same point as the monument, and it was erected in 1980, so it would've been pretty new when Preiss wrote the book.

The Monkey Man fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:20

einTier: Sep 25, 2003; Charming, friendly, and possessed by demons.
Approach with caution.

Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

Wow you are making it really hard for me to keep a lid on myself here.

Sent you a message. I'm willing to help and not leak if that's what you want. But absent any information, I have to go with what I think is likely, and Rice University just doesn't make sense to me.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:28

wa27: Jan 15, 2007

Abugadu posted:

Meh, the checkerboard stuff in Vancouver looks 10x more promising than anything the Montreal proposals have put together, in my mind. Montreal's progress has basically been legeater + jamming square pegs into round holes for clues, and now we know the legeater isn't unique, so....

I agree that Vancouver is no worse of a theory than Montreal after the multiple-legeater discovery. The cougar eating goats connection and checkerboard->squares->square roots->tree roots->squares in dirt are huge stretches, though.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:34

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

The Monkey Man posted:

Did we get a good estimate of when the legeater lamp was built? Wikipedia says that Vancouver wasn't even incorporated as a city until 1886. If Cask 9 is in Vancouver and the legeater's a specific clue, it would probably be in the oldest part of town. And the legeater may be a clue that's not there anymore.

EDIT: George Vancouver, the city's namesake, was of Dutch origin. I should've guessed from the "Van."

Oh, and the square that the legeater cuts through also resembles this monument in Vancouver that Urban Smurf posted earlier. The legeater cuts through the square at about the same point as the monument, and it was erected in 1980, so it would've been pretty new when Preiss wrote the book.

It doesn't have to be old. It could be somebody creating Italian ambiance at a restaurant or resort with discarded lamps from Italy, or even by making new castings from old shapes in the '40s or '50s. It might not even be a street lamp.

It's a bit like working a crossword puzzle - you have to keep a lot of possibilities in the air at once without fixating on any one choice until they all start coming together. The legeater as a design motif could theoretically appear in almost anything from any time period.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:44

Merlot Brougham: Dec 16, 2004; The White Darryl Strawberry; Salad Prong

wa27 posted:

I agree that Vancouver is no worse of a theory than Montreal after the multiple-legeater discovery. The cougar eating goats connection and checkerboard->squares->square roots->tree roots->squares in dirt are huge stretches, though.

Other than the numbers in the image seemingly giving the coordinates of Montreal.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:46

Raccoon Leaf: Jul 5, 2005; It's like 60 Minutes on acid.

einTier posted:

I'm not 100% sold on it myself. Every time I look over the Hermann Park solution, I am drawn to that damned 982 locomotive and I love the "small of scale, step across" referring to the miniature trains. I can't tell you how much those things call to me.

...and yet, nothing else really seems to fit. Sure, the rhino and camel could refer to the zoo, but if so, why are they different? Why does nothing else in the image fit anywhere in Hermann Park without some serious mental gymnastics? Seriously, in every image that's been solved so far, there's always been very relevant imagery that shows you exactly where the cask is and some very important landmarks to get you in the general vicinity. If the 982 is so goddamn important, where is it in the image? Where are the columns? What's with the columns in the background? Where's the Djinn? The water/smoke/whatever under him?

There's not much in the image, but we can't even seem to definitively match anything there. Long parts of the verse go unmatched. I also think that originally Preiss was helping wilhouse out -- "don't dig there" -- but wilhouse was so stuck on Hermann Park and the Children's Zoo in particular, I don't think he could have been deterred unless Preiss said outright "you will not find it in the zoo or Hermann Park". I still think that his last comments about the dig in the CZ not being a waste but no guarantees about what would be found were a subtle hope that he would finally give up the fool's errand of the park and zoo and look elsewhere -- "all I can say is I". Wilhouse never did figure out what that meant and eventually discarded it even though Preiss apparently thought it was a pretty strong push and important enough to state despite the fact he'd never given such overt hints for other casks.

I've also got some weak theories about it being at Johnson Space Center, but I really can't substantiate them at this time and I'm aware I may just be reaching because I've been looking at space stuff so much in relation to Tranquility Park.

It's not just 982 and the zoo.

There's this:

And the fact that this:

Was written by Herman(n) Melville.

The problem can be attributed to one thing: time. The reason why Hermann Park doesn't fit is because it's gone through major renovations. No theory is going to be airtight.

rookhunter posted:

I called the park and they told me the spouts were installed in the 90s. I few residents I spoke with said they remember no spout and added that the lake was stagnant in the 80s.

1970s

1980s

1990s

Something was in that lake at its west shoreline. It's not in the same spot where the fountain is today, but it definitely looks like a fountain shooting up when you look at the picture from the 90s. There's definitely a shadow. My theory is that is the fountain that's in the picture I posted, which was from 1991. New fountains were put in the lake in its current spot in the 90s or 00s. I'm not saying that I'm right. I'm not hoping I'm right; my theory is that the cask is destroyed. But since you're not saying anything to anyone but Gitmo Moneyson, nobody can check your work.

I'm willing to share what I've found, and I've found more stuff:

I've been trying to figure out what "four alike" could mean, and I think I've found something. There were four bushes or something around the Sam Houston monument.

I'm going to go back and look at the pictures I took around the Sam Houston monument, but I don't remember anything significant.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 00:59

Guuse: May 11, 2009

The Monkey Man posted:

Did we get a good estimate of when the legeater lamp was built? Wikipedia says that Vancouver wasn't even incorporated as a city until 1886. If Cask 9 is in Vancouver and the legeater's a specific clue, it would probably be in the oldest part of town. And the legeater may be a clue that's not there anymore.

The house was built between 1880 - 1883, so that's about the right time period. I guess any Italianate house, other building, park or whatever would be the best suspect to have one. I found a Florentine, lion paw version without leg eaters outside the Astoria, Oregon post office Googling around last night, so assuming they're all just variations on the same general style one could pop up just about anywhere with Victorian-era buildings. I'd also guess that there's a good chance that survived until 1982 would be protected as a historic location, but who knows.

Merlot Brougham posted:

Other than the numbers in the image seemingly giving the coordinates of Montreal.

Plus maybe the river match, but I don't recall how good that was. Also, I think there was talk about the badge with the X and runes working as eXpo 67. And I suppose the blocky thing being evocative of Habitat 67 as something to point to Montreal generally like how the rock with prison windows is thought to point to Alcatraz in the San Fran picture, but that's probably a bit thin.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 01:19

einTier: Sep 25, 2003; Charming, friendly, and possessed by demons.
Approach with caution.

Raccoon Leaf posted:

It's not just 982 and the zoo.

There's this:

Except that area didn't look like that in 1982. It looks so nice today and such a perfect fit that I also ignored the problems for a long time.

1978 on left, 1989 on right.

Unknown when these images were taken, but one is obviously pre-2004 and the other is something much more recent.

Yes, the ball is the right size and the length right, but remember that in 1982, someone couldn't be expected to easily do this overlay like we can today. Even still, the main reason it matches today is because the reflecting pond has been expanded and updated and there's a lot more definition to it. Previously, it didn't tie to the circle nearly so well, and doesn't really look like a ball on a pillar like it does today. There also wasn't as much at the bottom to form a "base", which is part of why it fits so well today. Your gif also expands the pole all the way down to the pond, when it didn't extend nearly that far. Without expanding it that far, it fits the circle less well.

Remember, look at things as they were, not as they are. Plus, previous map correlations aren't large images in the foreground, they're maps lurking in the background and fairly indistinct at that. Perhaps he changed it up for this image, but I think we're looking for a pretty common "globe on a pole" motief. It likely fits in a lot of places.

quote:

And the fact that this:

Was written by Herman(n) Melville.

There's also a Hermann Square near Tranquility Park. I'm currently reading Pierre, wondering why he chose to quote from it. I don't think it's as simple as "Herman Melville" = "Hermann Park".

quote:

The problem can be attributed to one thing: time. The reason why Hermann Park doesn't fit is because it's gone through major renovations. No theory is going to be airtight.

I'm willing to share what I've found, and I've found more stuff:

I've been trying to figure out what "four alike" could mean, and I think I've found something. There were four bushes or something around the Sam Houston monument.

I'm going to go back and look at the pictures I took around the Sam Houston monument, but I don't remember anything significant.

Sure, I get that. But many major markers haven't changed that much and the ones that have, we do have historic photos of them. Where's the identifiers?

The "four alike" we've discussed before. It's possible, but where's the "three winged and slight?" Is it the traffic circle? What image tells us to dig at Sam Houston's statue?

There's a lot of problems with the Hermann Park solution and people want to accept it as if it's gospel. I liked it too, I really did. I was convinced for a while, though never about the Children's Zoo. But the more I read through the original reasoning at Q4T and looked for the evidence in the image, the less sure I became. Considering all the work that's been done in and around that park, I think we've convinced ourselves of something that just isn't true and we keep saying, "but it has to be" because we've already confirmed to ourselves that it must be true.

Hell, there's a little question mark next to my post. Click it and you'll see all the posts I've made in this thread. You'll see where I was so certain the cask was in Hermann Park, but what I keep finding is that to remain convinced its there, I'm starting with the "you're in the right area" clues and then when trying to build a case to the more specific stuff there's just nothing that fits. Everything that should be leading you to the specific area is a reach and only narrows things down to very large and general areas. Granted, some things shouldn't make sense at this date, but you should be able to piece together more than a line or two. Hermann Park is a reach.

Where's the Djinn?
Where's the pillars (foreground)?
Where's the pillars (background)?
Where's the water spout (or whatever it is) under the Djinn?
Where's the paving stones?
Where's that odd shaped block in the background -- and no, Miller Auditorium's anchors don't fit, their slope reaches the ground.
Where's the fortress?
Friendship?
Small, split, three winged and slight?
Tower of delight? Falling in December night?

Seriously, the Hermann Park solution leaves more questions than it has answers.

einTier fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 01:39

Abugadu: Jul 12, 2004; 1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

Merlot Brougham posted:

Other than the numbers in the image seemingly giving the coordinates of Montreal.

no.

Montreal = 45N 73W

Numbers in image - 67 (with the 6 having a 4 coming out the top using the 7's crossbar), and then a backwards 9 (could be an odd 4) and 7.

No fives, no threes.

edit: 47N 97W puts you near Grand Forks, ND.

47N 79W and 47N 74W put you in rural Canada.

Abugadu fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 01:54

Merlot Brougham: Dec 16, 2004; The White Darryl Strawberry; Salad Prong

Abugadu posted:

no.

Montreal = 45N 73W

Numbers in image - 67 (with the 6 having a 4 coming out the top using the 7's crossbar), and then a backwards 9 (could be an odd 4) and 7.

No fives, no threes.

The 73 is in his hair.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 01:57

Abugadu: Jul 12, 2004; 1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

Merlot Brougham posted:

The 73 is in his hair.

I've never been sold on that, as it's a generous interpretation of a hair curl, and there's two sets of perfectly obvious numbers already in the picture.

edit: no 5's either, and Montreal sits dead in the center of the 45th parallel.

double edit: If I try to force fit Vancouver, I read that first set as a 49 (flipping the 6 upside down), and interpret that same hair chunk as being '23' instead of '73', with any of the straight pieces acting as the '1' in front of it, giving me 49N 123W. This, however, also ignores the second set of numbers, and suffers from the same problem as the Montreal coordinates.

Abugadu fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 02:05

Guuse: May 11, 2009

Abugadu posted:

no.

Montreal = 45N 73W

Numbers in image - 67 (with the 6 having a 4 coming out the top using the 7's crossbar), and then a backwards 9 (could be an odd 4) and 7.

No fives, no threes.

Not saying this is meant to be a slam dunk because they aren't 100% perfect and I recall it being debated at the time, but this is where the numbers came from earlier in the thread. And even the runes/flower bit require a bit of manipulation to get some of those numbers.

To me, the 3 looks clear, 7 less so and 5... takes effort. More like an S if anything, but still kind of recognizable and if it is meant to be a number than I'd say 5 would be closest.

Not my work, it was done by someone else way back here. I'm just bringing it forward so that folks know exactly what we're talking about.

Abugadu posted:

I've never been sold on that, as it's a generous interpretation of a hair curl, and there's two sets of perfectly obvious numbers already in the picture.

edit: no 5's either, and Montreal sits dead in the center of the 45th parallel.

double edit: If I try to force fit Vancouver, I read that first set as a 49 (flipping the 6 upside down), and interpret that same hair chunk as being '23' instead of '73', with any of the straight pieces acting as the '1' in front of it, giving me 49N 123W. This, however, also ignores the second set of numbers, and suffers from the same problem as the Montreal coordinates.

Whoops, I didn't get my post off fast enough. I still like Montreal, but honestly I wouldn't be upset if it ended up elsewhere. And nobody here is preventing anyone else from working on Vancouver or St. Louis in regards to this picture if that's what they want to do.

Guuse fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 02:36

Abugadu: Jul 12, 2004; 1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

Ok, so I'm venturing into Smurf land, but matching up Stanley Park and the checkerboard theory with the verse thought to go with New York takes care of the 'north to the Isle of B' would match up with the park being directly south of the Inlet of Burrard. The Grey Giant could be the Hollow Tree, with a road right next to it where cars go by. Not sure what shape the tree was in back in 1982, or if it had a branch that pointed down towards Rawlings trail.

edit: Hollow Tree probably wasn't that grey in 1982. Hrm.

Abugadu fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 02:43

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Guuse posted:

Not saying this is meant to be a slam dunk because they aren't 100% perfect and I recall it being debated at the time, but this is where the numbers came from earlier in the thread. And even the runes/flower bit require a bit of manipulation to get some of those numbers.

To me, the 3 looks clear, 7 less so and 5... takes effort. More like an S if anything, but still kind of recognizable and if it is meant to be a number than I'd say 5 would be closest.

Not my work, it was done by someone else way back here. I'm just bringing it forward so that folks know exactly what we're talking about.

Whoops, I didn't get my post off fast enough. I still like Montreal, but honestly I wouldn't be upset if it ended up elsewhere. And nobody here is preventing anyone else from working on Vancouver or St. Louis in regards to this picture if that's what they want to do.

For me, the problem is that any numbers I think I recognize pretty clearly put me in the middle of nowhere no matter how I mix them around. It's only after I pick a city and know it's latitude and longitude that I can go find something that looks like what I want.

I could probably find some squiggle that I can make into the coordinates of any city in the world.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 02:44

Urban Smurf: Jun 12, 2013; Take this avatar, rotate it 180 degrees, mirror it, mark a point from the tip of the dogs noses and you will see it will line up to this image of the centaurs tail "exactly."

Abugadu posted:

Ok, so I'm venturing into Smurf land, but matching up Stanley Park and the checkerboard theory with the verse thought to go with New York takes care of the 'north to the Isle of B' would match up with the park being directly south of the Inlet of Burrard. The Grey Giant could be the Hollow Tree, with a road right next to it where cars go by. Not sure what shape the tree was in back in 1982, or if it had a branch that pointed down towards Rawlings trail.

That bothers me. An Isle isn't an Inlet. There is Bowen Island, but that's a bit far west although it is north in latitude. If Preiss buried it near the checkerboards, I'm would be suprised he new they were there. They're just in the weeds behind the trees. If you study a road or park map today you won't see mention of them. My 1976 road map has Vancouver magnified on one side and actually shows a mark on the map for the checkerboards next to Pipeline Rd. The thing that seemed the least forced fit is the use of the park feature called the Nine O'Clock Gun as the key to walking twice as many steps as the hour. Most everything else I could come up with reads loosely like a forced-fit park tour.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 02:57

HappyBee: Oct 3, 2006; The happiest bee in all the land

John Dough posted:

In the decade following World War II, about 550,000 Dutch people emigrated to Canada, Australia and New Zealand, so there's another (somewhat tenuous) connection.

The Dutch royal family took refuge in Ottawa during the war, and Princess Margriet was born there. Apparently the maternity ward she was born in was even declared to be temporarily international territory so that she would be considered Dutch only, and not Dutch-Canadian. Also, Ottawa has a yearly tulip festival that stems from the yearly tulip donations the royal family would send as thanks. It's not Montreal, but there's your Dutch connection.

# ? Jun 25, 2013 02:59

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 13:03

Guuse: May 11, 2009

Deteriorata posted:

For me, the problem is that any numbers I think I recognize pretty clearly put me in the middle of nowhere no matter how I mix them around. It's only after I pick a city and know it's latitude and longitude that I can go find something that looks like what I want.

I could probably find some squiggle that I can make into the coordinates of any city in the world.

Yeah, and it's probably made worse by the other vague stuff in the picture. Checkers are just checkers and you can probably find some within a couple blocks of whatever location you're at in a major city. Maybe the 'steps' are a part of it, but some people seem to think that their asymmetry is just a perspective thing and that they match symmetrical roof facades (i.e. the Trafalgar School in Montreal). Or that the fact that the checkers themselves don't include the same perspective means that you're literally looking for steps that are different on each side. Or maybe it's the colors, but unless they're tiles they're likely to be repainted.

I guess the legeater is the surest thing, but it isn't unique. The asymmetrical collar has to be something, but the artist doesn't exactly have the best record with duplicating details. Ditto with the blocky thing next to the leg eater. What from the painting is meant to be matched, and how literally?

Guuse fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jun 25, 2013

# ? Jun 25, 2013 03:15

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Let's solve a 40 year old unsolved treasure hunt!

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