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OwlBot 2000 posted:Oh great, an Egyptian Obama. Hey, that's not fair, no one said the guy was a cynical liar with no views of his own.
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Jul 1, 2013 17:18
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gfanikf posted:Hey, that's not fair, no one said the guy was a cynical liar with no views of his own. I also haven't read anywhere of Morsi bombing a house full of civilians.
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Jul 1, 2013 17:35
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:I also haven't read anywhere of Morsi bombing a house full of civilians. I haven't read that about Obama either.
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Jul 1, 2013 17:53
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gfanikf posted:I haven't read that about Obama either. There's lots of fallout from his drone policy specifically because it's something like 50:1 civilian:combatant death ratio.
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Jul 1, 2013 17:56
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Lets not derail this thread.
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Jul 1, 2013 17:57
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TheBalor posted:It started out rather hopeful, but from what I understand the problem wasn't just incompetence, but the fact that it was arrogant incompetence. The MB basically acted without consulting the opinions of other parties in government on every issue, and plowed forward to push their own agenda. IIRC there was an editorial on al-jazeera that speculated this had roots in the Brotherhood's history of being a clandestine organization, rather than a political party. The leadership isn't used to consulting a broad range of interests, and opposed parties are seen in the same light that Mubarak's men were: stooges and thugs. Once again, the parallel to the current and future Republican Party remains horribly apt. (Edit - Sorry, not trying to derail. I've just mentioned it before, and the parallels keep being more and more striking.)
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Jul 1, 2013 18:08
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AJ is saying, "President Mohamed Morsi and opposition groups told they have 48 hours to calm protests, or face intervention." To calm protests? That sounds rather open-ended, and not like he has to calm them by giving them what they want.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:12
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OwlBot 2000 posted:AJ is saying, "President Mohamed Morsi and opposition groups told they have 48 hours to calm protests, or face intervention." To calm protests? That sounds rather open-ended, and not like he has to calm them by giving them what they want. They actually said 'to meet the demands of the people'. So, Al Jazeera.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:19
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OwlBot 2000 posted:AJ is saying, "President Mohamed Morsi and opposition groups told they have 48 hours to calm protests, or face intervention." To calm protests? That sounds rather open-ended, and not like he has to calm them by giving them what they want. I took it more as a message to the protestors that if they keep it up for another 2 days then the army will depose Morsi.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:20
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The Egyptian military seems like a surprisingly decent institution, as long as you let them have their corrupt business deals and contracts. I bet Morsi wishes he'd been friendlier to them now.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:36
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OwlBot 2000 posted:The Egyptian military seems like a surprisingly decent institution, as long as you let them have their corrupt business deals and contracts. I bet Morsi wishes he'd been friendlier to them now. They're the Turkish Military but without the "saving the legacy of [founding figure of the modern state]" shtick.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:47
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OwlBot 2000 posted:The Egyptian military seems like a surprisingly decent institution, as long as you let them have their corrupt business deals and contracts. I bet Morsi wishes he'd been friendlier to them now. They were plenty friendly, I'd say the heads of the military would prefer the MB had maintained power.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:53
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Ham posted:They were plenty friendly, I'd say the heads of the military would prefer the MB had maintained power. For some reason I thought he reduced their power a bit, dismissed some generals and so on. Maybe it was mere rhetoric.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:54
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He moved against Tantawi iirc.
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Jul 1, 2013 18:57
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Imapanda posted:The demographics of Egypt haven't changed much in a year. If another election is to crop up, wont the rural peasants just be able to upvote another religious conservative into power again? That's not why Morsi won. After Mubarak fell, it was a really weird transitional phase where people weren't all on the same page. Morsi brought everyone together. It was mostly through the use of buzzwords, and powerful speaking, which in hindsight, were foreshadowing for his egomaniac tendencies, and his refusal to focus on actual problems instead of his pet issues. Morsi united the revolution better than any of the other candidates. I'm glad they won't have to wait for his full term to finish before replacing him though. Now the Egyptian people are united behind not just ending the reign and culture of tyranny, but actual legitimate progress. Just a reminder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7grlfg0K2s&t=77s Volkerball fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 19:13
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I'm not Egyptian, but I really wanted Morsi to win because electing Ahmed Shafiq or Amr Moussa would have been like re-electing Mubarak, or at least Mubarak's cousin. I'm sure many Egyptians felt the same way. Also, a lot of times campaign infrastructure, electoral math and vote-splitting has as much to do with elections as "The Will of The People." If the latter exists, I think it's easier to find in mass movements and on the streets than in a polling booth.
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Jul 1, 2013 19:17
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I'm seeing reports that the army entered Maspero.
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Jul 1, 2013 19:51
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Apparently a Dutch reporter was gang-raped by five protesters. What the hell is wrong with Egyptians or their culture? 99.3% of women report sexual harassment, or worse. I know we can't blame all Egyptians for this, and many are fighting against this, but enough people are committing crimes or standing by and tolerating it to make Egypt one of the worst countries in the world to be a woman.quote:46 sexual assaults have happened in the country since Sunday in the protests. http://www.ibtimes.com/journalist-dina-zakaria-says-dutch-reporter-was-raped-tahrir-square-during-egyptian-protests-1329925 Edit: This isn't just an Egyptian issue, it's a global issue that effects India, Africa and the USA as well. I don't want to single them out because rape culture is global, but between this and the FGM statistics I've got reason to wonder if Egypt is the absolute worst. OwlBot 2000 fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 19:58
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Xandu posted:I'm seeing reports that the army entered Maspero. They sent someone to deliver the address recording personally but nothing else.
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Jul 1, 2013 20:06
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In the case of the Dutch woman, it's not been confirmed that she was raped (out of privacy) but she was sexually assaulted by a giant crowd and then carried into an ambulance. There's a news video here http://nos.nl/video/524356-nederlandse-vrouw-22-aangevallen-op-tahrirplein.html. She's only 22 years old 
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Jul 1, 2013 20:07
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Edit: This isn't just an Egyptian issue, it's a global issue that effects India, Africa and the USA as well. I don't want to single them out because rape culture is global, but between this and the FGM statistics I've got reason to wonder if Egypt is the absolute worst. It's a particularly big issue in cultures where women are so oppressed and kept seperate from men such as many of the countries in the middle east and around the Indian subcontinent. Must be absolutely horrifying for all the women that get caught up in it. Between this journalist and Lara Logan it's highlighting the particular risk they take in situations like this
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Jul 1, 2013 20:18
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I think part of it is simply that there has been a great deal of international scrutiny on Egypt foremost as an Arab-Muslim country coming off of a decade where Arab-Muslim countries had special focus as military/diplomatic targets. India is only recently getting attention despite sexual harassment and misogyny being absolutely endemic to social relations.
az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 20:41
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 Perhaps a historic image of helicopters that have started flying over Cairo carrying Egyptian flags. Also a disturbing video has surfaced of an alleged Brotherhood member being beaten up by an angry crowd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loNZWRuKByY
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Jul 1, 2013 20:45
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az jan jananam posted:I think part of it is simply that there has been a great deal of international scrutiny on Egypt foremost as a Muslim country. India is only recently getting attention despite sexual harassment and misogyny being endemic to the culture. I think it's probably less due to the fact that it's a Muslim country than the fact that it's, by regional standards, a relatively developed country. Nobody's surprised when people in a failed state like Somalia act that way, or a horrifically impoverished, war-torn place like Sierra Leone, but Egypt doesn't have quite so many excuses. India has probably gotten a pass because it's a model third-world Liberal nation that doesn't rock the boat economically. Edit: vv Is being a crossdressing man any safer than being a woman, if you're abducted by these creeps? OwlBot 2000 fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 20:46
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Apparently a Dutch reporter was gang-raped by five protesters. What the hell is wrong with Egyptians or their culture? 99.3% of women report sexual harassment, or worse. I know we can't blame all Egyptians for this, and many are fighting against this, but enough people are committing crimes or standing by and tolerating it to make Egypt one of the worst countries in the world to be a woman. There's a video in which a egyptian man cross-dressed as a woman to experience first hand all the sexual harassment women experience in Egypt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNZt1T5rAQ It was a terrifying experience for the guy such as having scores of men demand a date or stalking him for multiple blocks despite being told off.
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Jul 1, 2013 20:48
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Pieter posted:In the case of the Dutch woman, it's not been confirmed that she was raped (out of privacy) but she was sexually assaulted by a giant crowd and then carried into an ambulance. There's a news video here http://nos.nl/video/524356-nederlandse-vrouw-22-aangevallen-op-tahrirplein.html. She's only 22 years old You would think they'd stop sending young female reporters to cover the protests. In fact, I think it's dangerous for everyone right now.
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Jul 1, 2013 20:54
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I don't think she's been identified as a reporter. Who knows why she was there.
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Jul 1, 2013 20:55
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Pieter posted:I don't think she's been identified as a reporter. Who knows why she was there. Not that you're saying she deserved it or was stupid for being near the protests, but questions like whether she's a reporter or "who knows why she was there" are completely irrelevant. Whoever is elected next (Sabbahi?) I hope they'll make gender equality one of their top priorities, push for women's education and an end to FGM. There's no excuse for this barbarism in the 21st century. Phlegmish posted:You would think they'd stop sending young female reporters to cover the protests You would think they'd stop sending rapists to protest. But practically speaking, you're probably right 
OwlBot 2000 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 20:56
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"You'll never defeat my spirit" (on sexual harassment in Egypt), by Doaa Eladl "I'm a Salafi...but not like the others!" from Mohammed Baradei's FB  Protest Dog 
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Jul 1, 2013 21:13
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Phlegmish posted:You would think they'd stop sending young female reporters to cover the protests. In fact, I think it's dangerous for everyone right now. I already know of a few who decided not to go to Tahrir yesterday because of all the reports of assault.
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Jul 1, 2013 21:14
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The way women are treated is probably the worst thing about Cairo. I'd never take family or girlfriend here. It disgusts me.
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Jul 1, 2013 23:18
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So, is there any reason to believe the Army is really going to back their words? Or is just a bluff?
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Jul 2, 2013 02:09
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dinoputz posted:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Arabs Those stereotypes (and Persian ill-will towards Arabs) goes back much, much farther than the 80s. Back to the kingdom of Persia getting conquerred by Arabs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia How much that was reignited following the revolution, I do not know.
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Jul 2, 2013 02:32
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The-Mole posted:Those stereotypes (and Persian ill-will towards Arabs) goes back much, much farther than the 80s. Back to the kingdom of Persia getting conquerred by Arabs. I'd argue it goes back way further into Assyrian, etc. vs Ancient Persian conflicts and rivalries. Far before the spread of Islam.
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Jul 2, 2013 02:35
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I know this is going to sound like I'm blaming the victim here but I truly am not. The Dutch reporter/journalist whatever she was woman was insane to go to Tahrir Square. I can understand Lara Logan not knowing what she was getting into, since Tahrir wasn't exactly known as Rapetown when she was there. But it's been 2 of years of the breakdown of law and order in Egypt and the prevalence of sexual harrassment that goes on daily on the the streets of Cairo is known to pretty much everyone at this point. And even if the Dutch reporter was "sent" to Tahrir, she didn't have to go. She must have known how incredibly risky it would be.
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Jul 2, 2013 03:27
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Charliegrs posted:I know this is going to sound like I'm blaming the victim here but I truly am not. The Dutch reporter/journalist whatever she was woman was insane to go to Tahrir Square. I can understand Lara Logan not knowing what she was getting into, since Tahrir wasn't exactly known as Rapetown when she was there. But it's been 2 of years of the breakdown of law and order in Egypt and the prevalence of sexual harrassment that goes on daily on the the streets of Cairo is known to pretty much everyone at this point. And even if the Dutch reporter was "sent" to Tahrir, she didn't have to go. She must have known how incredibly risky it would be. I'm sorry, but that's classic victim blaming.
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Jul 2, 2013 04:18
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Has anyone attempted to explain why rape is so prevalent in the middle east? Is it religious/social mores? Or just the general problem of being a 3rd world poo poo-hole? In any case, it's horrifying.
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Jul 2, 2013 04:20
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It's not victim blaming. No one is saying its the fault of anyone other than the rapists but you really just shouldn't go there as a woman. There's no safety net or anything to prevent these kind of crimes right now.
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Jul 2, 2013 04:25
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I'm sorry, but that's classic victim blaming. Yeah I was waiting for someone to say it. I guess if I walked into a crazy mob of hungry people holding a bunch of loaves of bread and there was zero police presence should I really be surprised when all my bread gets stolen right out of my hands? And was I absolutely crazy for walking into that mob of hungry people? Of course I was. I really wish there was a way to articulate how I feel about the situation with the Dutch reporter that didn't make me sound like a completely cold A-hole. I feel REALLY bad for her and I hope she recovers both physically and psychologically. But she did put herself into a very dangerous situation.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:17
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Charliegrs posted:
More likely her news station did.
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