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Poizen Jam posted:But it's not? I imagine it's intended, much like limited numbers of wonders, archaeology sites, and so on. I would be surprised if it's intended, but I guess it's possible.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:53
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Sacro posted:Land trade routes are poo poo. An early land route between your cities will give 4 food or production where a sea route gives double or more. Sea routes are also a hell of a lot longer especially with a harbor and the renaissance tech to increase range. yeah sea trade routes are so much better it's insane. They tend to be easier to defend too since there are way less barbarian sea units. Unfortunately sometimes you end up on an island or continent without any good coastal spots.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:53
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Sacro posted:Ignoring religion entirely seems like a good idea unless you plan on making that a big focus of your game. The bonuses are great but the AI is very aggressive about spreading their religions, unless you're parking inquisitors in all your cities and get some serious early game edge on religion spreading and hammer through world religion, you're probably better off trying for other wonders and getting tradition. You can win culture earlier than that if you know what you're doing but it's true the culture does skyrocket late game. Especially when you finally get Hotels. In my Assyrian Culture Domination last night I won just as I hit modern age due to hotels, Freedom, and control of the world congress. Having hotels when your territory is dotted with Landmarks generating 12-13 culture mixed with +34% tourism from radio towers generates lots of suitcases. Also don't forget that Great Musicians can go on concert tours in foreign lands to generate an obscene amount of tourism at once.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:54
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Waffles Inc. posted:It should just do lorem ipsum or something once it's out of pre-loaded works. "I would a muffin from the coffee shop! Mmmmmm! Actually even more so because I knew they," by Horse_ebooks, Renaissance America
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Jul 11, 2013 18:55
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Beamed posted:I would be surprised if it's intended, but I guess it's possible. Each great work has a unique name, artwork, and the books have quotes. There is naturally only a limited number of these made by Firaxis and in 22 civ games, you're going to run into that relatively quickly. It may not be balanced for high civ counts particularly well, but it's definitely intended for there to be a limit.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:59
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Each great work has a unique name, artwork, and the books have quotes. There is naturally only a limited number of these made by Firaxis and in 22 civ games, you're going to run into that relatively quickly. It may not be balanced for high civ counts particularly well, but it's definitely intended for there to be a limit. I should probably rephrase that to say I don't believe there was intended to be a practical limit, although I don't think Firaxis really designs the game for 22-civ games anyway.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:02
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Each great work has a unique name, artwork, and the books have quotes. There is naturally only a limited number of these made by Firaxis and in 22 civ games, you're going to run into that relatively quickly. It may not be balanced for high civ counts particularly well, but it's definitely intended for there to be a limit. Still, there should be some sort of counter or notification that "All unique great writers and works of art have been used up." so you don't reach this point of confusion. Also, if they were struggling for great writers, I'm sure they could imagine tossing in some stuff like movies or plays. I'd love to get George Lucas to produce "Star Wars" as a play for the Mayans in the classical era. 
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Jul 11, 2013 19:05
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Each great work has a unique name, artwork, and the books have quotes. There is naturally only a limited number of these made by Firaxis and in 22 civ games, you're going to run into that relatively quickly. It may not be balanced for high civ counts particularly well, but it's definitely intended for there to be a limit. It does still seem like an oversight though. They could just do a generic "great work 1" type thing like they do with future techs
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Jul 11, 2013 19:08
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I'm getting hosed on King difficulty. Should I pack in my game if I'm 5 techs behind at the medieval era?
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Jul 11, 2013 19:09
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Alkydere posted:Still, there should be some sort of counter or notification that "All unique great writers and works of art have been used up." so you don't reach this point of confusion. "All art has been made! Artists have only to struggle in vain..."
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Jul 11, 2013 19:10
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I couldn't figure out why I wasn't hearing any of the great works of music, then I realized I had music off. God I love that feature, you actually see/hear the work of art when you build it! My first game is with Brazil, though I was tempted to go with Poland. All the other posters saying how it wasn't until Renisance that Brazil gets good were not kidding. I went from barely 200 culture to nearly 600 a turn just by brazilwooding all the jungles. I ended up going order as my empire is just full of coal, so I can build a factory in every city (I think I have about 37 in total available to me, with a couple spots on the map I can expand to to get even more). One thing I do not like is how all the other civs need to constantly tell you that they like you, or they're happy with what your doing. Yes, I need to know that you are totally cool with giving world wonders +2 culture. I really shouldn't have done a huge map though, the game is taking forever, and I didn't want to expand like America's wasteband, so there's huge empty spots on the maps. Unless they have oil or coal.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:10
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Any goons streaming today? Only a few more hours... plus a whole work day. 
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Jul 11, 2013 19:10
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Alkydere posted:You can win culture earlier than that if you know what you're doing but it's true the culture does skyrocket late game. Especially when you finally get Hotels. In my Assyrian Culture Domination last night I won just as I hit modern age due to hotels, Freedom, and control of the world congress. Having hotels when your territory is dotted with Landmarks generating 12-13 culture mixed with +34% tourism from radio towers generates lots of suitcases. This is pretty much what I was saying, your tourism ramps up significantly after you get the relevant techs. It's hard to get tourism in the beginning of the game because culture output is also relatively low and being able to win the game in the classical era via culture would be silly. Tourism goes up very slowly then gets dramatically increased by industrial and later techs. The informaion era bonuses are incredible overkill if you know what you're doing, but they're meant to end the game and they do that very well.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:12
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WYA posted:I'm getting hosed on King difficulty. Should I pack in my game if I'm 5 techs behind at the medieval era? No - you're almost always behind in the early game on the higher difficulty levels. Abuse diplomacy and later the world council to gently caress over the leader. With some plotting you should be able to get a coalition to go to war on the runaway leader at some point, that's how I won my last King game.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:17
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Sacro posted:This is pretty much what I was saying, your tourism ramps up significantly after you get the relevant techs. It's hard to get tourism in the beginning of the game because culture output is also relatively low and being able to win the game in the classical era via culture would be silly. Tourism goes up very slowly then gets dramatically increased by industrial and later techs. The informaion era bonuses are incredible overkill if you know what you're doing, but they're meant to end the game and they do that very well. Ah, okay, I thought you were saying that you could only win late game with all that stuff. I did fairly well without most of it but that's because I dominated the gently caress out of my world's culture production (at least once Attila devoured China, my only competitor) and world congress. It's still probably the earliest non-domination victory available if you know what you're doing and get really lucky, followed by diplomacy and science. Also, do not discount Great Musicians. They create a massive glob of tourism in one turn. I'm not sure what the exact formula is but the end result is something around 10x your tourism output.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:17
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I think the earliest tourism you can get is a Reformation belief that gives 2 suitcases for every faith-purchased building, and that's if you go full Piety first.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:22
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CommonSensei posted:I think the earliest tourism you can get is a Reformation belief that gives 2 suitcases for every faith-purchased building, and that's if you go full Piety first. Eh? You can get Tourism with the Parthenon.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:23
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I stand corrected. I forgot about that because I've been beaten to it every game so far. However, I think I could amend my statement that the tourism for faith-purchased building Reformation may be the earliest sustained push you can do.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:26
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CommonSensei posted:I stand corrected. I forgot about that because I've been beaten to it every game so far. However, I think I could amend my statement that the tourism for faith-purchased building Reformation may be the earliest sustained push you can do. That's probably true. I was running +12 Tourism pretty early by maxing out specialists, but I think I functionally maxed it out by doing so.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:27
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Is there no Tourism for the Pyramids? Historically speaking it was a major tourist attraction even back in Ancient times.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:29
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twistedmentat posted:I couldn't figure out why I wasn't hearing any of the great works of music, then I realized I had music off. God I love that feature, you actually see/hear the work of art when you build it! I was really sad when I saw Persia was the one to produce Steve Reich, I really want to know what piece they used for him. I know it won't be the 9/11 one but a man can dream
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Jul 11, 2013 19:30
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Alkydere posted:You can win culture earlier than that if you know what you're doing but it's true the culture does skyrocket late game. Especially when you finally get Hotels. In my Assyrian Culture Domination last night I won just as I hit modern age due to hotels, Freedom, and control of the world congress. Having hotels when your territory is dotted with Landmarks generating 12-13 culture mixed with +34% tourism from radio towers generates lots of suitcases. And if hotels aren't enough, once you get to airports it should really be enough. And if that somehow isn't enough, there's the International games. And the National Visitor's Center. And if you're somehow still not winning by that point, you can rush The Internet. And if you're Brazil, you have a +100% modifier on demand. You're banking an Artist, right? The fact that most of those bonuses aren't necessary is probably indicative of tourism being a little bit overpowered. Maybe they should dial down tourism production a little.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:34
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Alkydere posted:Also, if they were struggling for great writers, I'm sure they could imagine tossing in some stuff like movies or plays. I'd love to get George Lucas to produce "Star Wars" as a play for the Mayans in the classical era. Man, I just hit 1977 in my Shoshone game and had this exact thought "Sure with George Lucas was a Great Writer"
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Jul 11, 2013 19:35
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Someone's bound to do a 'Great Works' mod with lots of great new choices. And someone else is bound to do a 'Great Works' mod with hilarious new choices! 
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Jul 11, 2013 19:45
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Countdown till Mein Kampf is added by some nerd.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:46
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Good God, this Morocco start!  The only way it could have been better, was to get culture from the ancient ruins, as is I got Gold/Faith/Free Mining tech. 
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Jul 11, 2013 19:46
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Davincie posted:Is there no Tourism for the Pyramids? Historically speaking it was a major tourist attraction even back in Ancient times. Having a hotel, airport, or the national visitor center will give you tourism from having the Pyramids in the city.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:49
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jivjov posted:Man, I just hit 1977 in my Shoshone game and had this exact thought "Sure with George Lucas was a Great Writer" Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing, last time I watched a Star Wars movie.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:57
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jivjov posted:Man, I just hit 1977 in my Shoshone game and had this exact thought "Sure with George Lucas was a Great Writer" Meanwhile, in my Assyria playthrough, things are still looking closer to being my second victory with a BNW civ than another Brazil incident. My empire is thriving and contributed the most to the world's fair, leaving the only problem being expansionists on my borders. Arabia is continuing an unhealthy amount of city-making GBS threads in spite of presumably remembering the early game ram slam between us. Still, he's my biggest trading partner in this game and keeps backing me in the world congress, so I'm afraid to actually go to war with him over some piddly seven-tile cities being dropped all around the plains above my desert paradise. On yet another hand, though, he's gone from Friendly to Guarded, so I'm building up troops just in case it all hits the fan. As for Greece, though? Alex needs to back off or I'm going to pummel him back to their far-away island capital.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:00
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Varjon posted:I was really sad when I saw Persia was the one to produce Steve Reich, I really want to know what piece they used for him. I know it won't be the 9/11 one but a man can dream I was actually wondering how late the artworks went, like is there rock songs? I'm only at 1890. Something that did annoy me is i started getting great artists long before I had any place to put them. And when I get an archeological site, is it better to make a landmark or stick it in a museum? I love how it says "plundered by", very apt for early archeology.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:02
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The Eiffel Tower produces its own tourism, though. Heh.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:11
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I played Civ 4 a little but somehow I didn't really "get" it. Why people find these games appealing? What makes them fun? Should I give a chance to Civ 5? I mainly felt disappointed at Civ 4 because I had just read Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel" and I was really bummed when the game wasn't about realistic civilization building at all. 
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Jul 11, 2013 20:13
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twistedmentat posted:I was actually wondering how late the artworks went, like is there rock songs? I'm only at 1890. It all depends. Archeological sites for ancient/classical eras can produce HUGE amounts of culture, which can then be converted into HUGE amounts of tourism by hotels and airports. With the right World Council or Tenets they can produce even more culture. If they're near your cities, go ahead, just remember they're only good for tourism if you have the proper buildings in your cities.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:15
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Fossilized Rappy posted:As for Greece, though? Alex needs to back off or I'm going to pummel him back to their far-away island capital. I make it a point in every game in which Greece appears as an AI to make Alexander miserable. Playing as the Shoshone I ended up with Greece to my north, the Inca to my east, Siam to my south, and Austria to my west. Since I know from past experience that Alexander is a douchebag, I made sure to cut off his access to good city sites in the northwest, with the Inca and the ocean boxing him in on the other side. Then I set up early trade routes with the other 3 civs and made sure to gift generously, building a nice coalition of people with no patience for his bullshit. The first time he got a little uppity he found himself in a real short war with me, Austria, and the Inca which ended up with me owning Athens and him stuck in a single lovely city on a narrow strip of land. There's a great spot for a city just next-door which will ensure he can't leave his own borders except by boat. Assuming the Inca don't swallow him up first, that is. gently caress Alexander, is what I'm saying.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:21
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ManOfTheYear posted:I played Civ 4 a little but somehow I didn't really "get" it. Why people find these games appealing? What makes them fun? Should I give a chance to Civ 5? It's about as accurate a simulation of history as Risk is a simulation of the first World War. It's probably closer to the truth to say that it resembles history.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:21
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ManOfTheYear posted:I played Civ 4 a little but somehow I didn't really "get" it. Why people find these games appealing? What makes them fun? Should I give a chance to Civ 5? You may be mistaken on what constitutes "realistic" civilization building. Civilization is fundamentally a game. The mechanics approximate reality, but game balance is generally given precedence. Civ 5 is pretty different from Civ 4 though, try out the demo or something. Edit: You should also read a different book if you are interested in anthropology.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:22
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You Us guys have any tips for a EU dude that you wish you knew about for the first few games? New UI shortcuts, tips, quirky and backstabby new AI leaders or something?
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Jul 11, 2013 20:25
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ManOfTheYear posted:I played Civ 4 a little but somehow I didn't really "get" it. Why people find these games appealing? What makes them fun? Should I give a chance to Civ 5? It's goofy and abstract. There's currently no remotely 'realistic' civilization building games at all. Europa Universalis is probably the 'best' approximation and it's so absurd that i recommend social scientists not touch that game for fear of aneurysm.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:27
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Dongattack posted:You Us guys have any tips for a EU dude that you wish you knew about for the first few games? New UI shortcuts, tips, quirky and backstabby new AI leaders or something? Religion seems to spread way slower than before. You actually have to make an effort with missionaries as opposed to just letting iterant preachers do all the work. Other civs are also more aggressive with spreading their religion than before.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:28
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If you want a (semi-)realistic civilization building game, check out Paradox Interactive's games. They take a more simulation-y approach. But Civ has always been like a super-complex board game that uses history as decorum and props. If that's not what you want you would be disappointed with Civ V too, even though it's a great game. Tulip posted:It's goofy and abstract. There's currently no remotely 'realistic' civilization building games at all. Europa Universalis is probably the 'best' approximation and it's so absurd that i recommend social scientists not touch that game for fear of aneurysm. Europa Universalis is the most board game-y PI game. In fact, it was originally a board game. But Victoria 2? That's a different story. Even though it has it's own game-isms, it has the most complex and realistic economy system I've ever seen from a video game (short of some player-driven MMOs like EVE). fspades fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 20:28
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