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ManOfTheYear posted:I guess that's a bit of shame, then. A lot of games are easy to grasp but become super complicated if you dwell deep enough into them, like Street Fighter or World of Warcraft. Sure they're not a strategy games, but you get the idea. Maybe different kinda packaging would help: a lot of screenshots from PI games are basically map of Europe with stock market info in it. That's a little intimidating, but maybe I'll give a shot for them in the near future. Street Fighter doesn't ever get too complicated. You're confusing complexity with game depth and are making assumptions about the nature of complexity in games based on simple yet deep games. The Street Fighter games are relatively simple and approachable yet a lot of depth can arise from those simple rulesets. That's not the same as complexity. This isn't just semantics, I point this out because if you want to have a realistic representation of history, it just absolutely cannot be simple. SF and Civilization are not equivalent at all. There are a lot of ways you can mitigate the ease of use problems inherent in complex games, but that ultimately only goes so far and the more realistic a historical strategy game gets, the more complex the game mechanics are going to have to be in order to represent that, and the harder to learn it will be by its nature. Civilization 5 tries to avoid being overly complex by simplifying the rules, and this has the unavoidable side effect of being heavily unrealistic. But I'd argue that there's still an interesting amount of complexity in there, especially with the additions the expansions make, and it can get pretty deep the more you get into it. It has that same "relatively easy to grasp but gets real deep as you get better" quality that you attribute to Street Fighter. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 23:35
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dangerous.hotdog posted:The AI feels so much more passive now. I kind of miss the early wars and aggression. Playing on Deity, sandwiched between China and Iroquois and we've been BFFs forever. Even settling in their face doesn't get a reaction from them. I finally got DoW'ed on at around turn 125 from Boudicca (south of me, further than both China or Iroquois). Could have just been a fluke though. I observed the same thing but maybe the AI is much smarter with declaring wars than in G&K. If you have trade routes with them then they have an economic incentive to keep the peace. They become much friendlier and this, combined with chain declarations of friendship turns the whole game into a happy circle-jerk. That said, I've also seen them dogpile on weaker, diplomatically isolated civs. In my game Napoleon was eaten by three separate civs and they also proposed to embargo him in World Congress. Contest Winner posted:I was only playing on the middle difficulty level but the AI seemed a lot more ready to jump into a winning fight to try and snipe a city or two out from under you. The AI civs are still jerks. But they are a smarter kind of jerk now. fspades fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 23:40
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I think that's the deal, is the AI will no longer attack if they actually can't win, while previously they'd attack just because they hate you.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:48
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Just won a culture victory with Brazil. It's a lot better than the old culture game, but man getting that last civ, the one that's also going culture, is a real bastard. I like how towards the end of the tech tree there's just a whole bunch of buildings and techs basically meant to throw the culture victory your way if things slow to a crawl. Like the national visitor center or the internet. Swapping works to create themes is fun and all though, and scrabbling for artifacts is a cool way to keep you engaged with the rest of the world. Had an archaeologist dig up an artifact in Zulu land and Shaka was pissed and it amused me that one of the responses available to you was something like "we're sorry we didn't mean to offend you by stealing your cultural heritage" and that's the nice option. It looked like the civs were getting ready to draw up impromptu alliances along ideological lines, but the game was already getting wrapped up by then, since I was so far ahead of everyone that I had to wait for them to catch up. I think thar's a sign to finally come to graduate up to King.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:57
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Third game was a wash. Trying to go wide with Assyria just got my teeth caved in by basically every civ in the game. Once I researched physics, no more siege towers, and poof! My military advantage disappeared. It only took a few turns for the rest of the world, angry at my warmongering, to declare on me all at once. It was the Shoshone that did me in though. The carpet those motherfuckers can field is obscene, and it didn't help that I was fighting muskets with composite bows. Happiness and gold problems were brutal, and made me realize that I really don't know how to go wide anymore in BNW. I took liberty and it was loving useless, definitely the weakest of the four initial trees right now IMO. emTme3 fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 00:03
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I couldn't find a solution to the problem where you give a unit a go-to order and a couple turns later you want to see where its going but there's no way to do that so you have to give it the order again, so I made a mod to do so. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=159352948 It doesn't show the pathing but it'll highlight the destination for a unit. I think it's useful, if not perfect, and I like it for moving a bunch of armies around or occasionally sending a unit across the entire map but I can't remember where I sent this particular guy. At some point I hope to put pathing in (there's actually commented out stub code in the game files for this) but it looks like it doesn't really work right, it's not really in the API, and I think it gets recalculated every turn so anything it *did* display wouldn't necessarily be accurate. I'll try to figure out how to do it though. It's an alpha right now with no guarantees not to destroy your game, but it's a pretty tiny script that doesn't do all that much so I think it should be pretty safe. I have no ego about this stupid thing so feel free to tell me why it sucks and how it could be better, I'd just like it to be useful to people.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:04
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Steam in the UK is reporting the game is available to play, but it's not downloading. Remind me, is there something special that needs to be done?
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Jul 12, 2013 00:05
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Have the same problem here in Norway. I managed to download the game earlier through VPN, and I got the directx install etc on the 9th, so I hoped it would be just for me to fire it up now. Guess not. The dll is missing from expansion2 and I tried deleting the blob file. Also tried restarting Steam 4-5 times and rebooting my computer. Guess I really have to wait 'till morning.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:12
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Gonna stream some Brave New World. On king difficulty and I think I'm doing really badly, okay! Add me on steam if you guys ever want to play some mplayer https://www.twitch.tv/dickboss/
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Jul 12, 2013 00:12
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Street Fighter doesn't ever get too complicated. You're confusing complexity with game depth and are making assumptions about the nature of complexity in games based on simple yet deep games. The Street Fighter games are relatively simple and approachable yet a lot of depth can arise from those simple rulesets. That's not the same as complexity. This isn't just semantics, I point this out because if you want to have a realistic representation of history, it just absolutely cannot be simple. SF and Civilization are not equivalent at all. There are a lot of ways you can mitigate the ease of use problems inherent in complex games, but that ultimately only goes so far and the more realistic a historical strategy game gets, the more complex the game mechanics are going to have to be in order to represent that, and the harder to learn it will be by its nature. In my mind I've been using the word "complexity" as a synonym for the word "depth" because of my native language, so I think you got me here. I was thinking more about a game being visually inviting, which is what I meant about my last post about stock market info. A game can have as much depth as possible, but if it looks like a science project rather than some fun pastime, it can be a little off-putting at first. I don't know how realistic or complex you'd rate Sim City, but it still keeps at least the illusion of realism in it while still being appealing.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:13
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WYA posted:Gonna stream some Brave New World. On king difficulty and I think I'm doing really badly, okay! Add me on steam if you guys ever want to play some mplayer What's your name on Steam? By the way, do we have a group going yet?
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Jul 12, 2013 00:13
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^^^^^ Uncivilized Goons. Joining Group Chat should get you an invite if anyone's online.Jedit posted:Steam in the UK is reporting the game is available to play, but it's not downloading. Remind me, is there something special that needs to be done? No-one in Europe seems to be able to play the game, at least not on Windows.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:15
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Well, between the summer sale and the international release of BNW it looks like the Steam store is completely down. Edit: oh, no, it's back now. Hope you international folk get it soon.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:15
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The other problem with 'realism' in particularly a game like Civ is that if they start 'realistically' portraying the Catholic church for example, people are going to get upset, no matter how they portray the Catholic church. Unlike the PI games, Civ moves into the 'present' and 2k/firaxis doesn't need all that churn. And yeah, you are not going to get a 'realistic' game that is not complex because honestly reality is complex, particularly if you are looking at some point in time and going forward.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:16
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Jolan posted:
Yea there's a 97 page in english on the steam forum, then a similar one in German and Russian. How very annoying!
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Jul 12, 2013 00:20
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It just downloaded a 9mb patch for me. e: no BNW yet though!
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Jul 12, 2013 00:21
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Guess it's the dull old world after all 
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Jul 12, 2013 00:23
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The fact that BNW is refusing to download is really pissing me off now.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:25
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Did it download straight away for the US release or did they get a similar waiting period after it was deemed unlocked on steam?
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Jul 12, 2013 00:28
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It's a pain but at the same time I find entertainment in reading forums where people are shouting rational things like "This is SimCity all over again" and "I wonder if they're going to give us an extra civ or something for this fiasco".
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Jul 12, 2013 00:28
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Captain Fargle posted:The fact that BNW is refusing to download is really pissing me off now. It is quite annoying, considering how few people will be on doing it at this time of night.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:29
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Steam servers in general are probably making GBS threads themselves because of the sale. Give it time.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:30
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Yeah I specifically stayed up until midnight so I could set it to download as I sleep and play in the morning. Hope it comes on soon...
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Jul 12, 2013 00:31
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Erakko posted:Steam servers in general are probably making GBS threads themselves because of the sale. Give it time. We already gave it 3 days. 
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Jul 12, 2013 00:31
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My download just started.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:31
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Reveilled posted:My download just started. Still nothing here, but at least now I'm getting an error message. I think what is annoying is that because it's DLC unless you boot up the game you really don't know if it's worked or not.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:33
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I'm in-game 
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Jul 12, 2013 00:33
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Yeah my download also just started.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:34
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TjyvTompa posted:Yeah my download also just started. Same here. Slow as balls but it's downloading.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:35
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Civ V: Brave New World: Tell us how your download is going
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Jul 12, 2013 00:35
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I verified the game cache earlier so I probably downloaded it then, was wondering why it took so long. It's beautiful. 
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Jul 12, 2013 00:36
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Try restarting steam and/or verify cache, worked for me just now.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:36
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 Just restarted steam now, and BNW started downloading at once.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:39
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Finally. The wait is over. Now I can start waiting for DuckTales in HD to be released for XBLA.
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Jul 12, 2013 00:43
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I just won a crushing scientific victory as Assyria on Emperor  I did Prince - Poland - Cultural, won that and then went King - Portugal - Diplomatic, won that with difficulty, then decided to try Emperor. I had a great starting location and lucked out by being on a continent with two other civs instead of the other continent that had the remaining five. I quickly conquered the two other civs with the power of the Siege Tower and landing the Terracotta Army early to double my army in size. I had intended to then take this army across the ocean and continue warmongering, my plan being to conquer cities and then give them back to steal techs, but I never had to do that. Oh, and I totally forgot about properly curating my Royal Libraries to get the XP bonus! I managed to pull off the conquest of my continent quickly enough that the only other civ who spotted my treachery was Morocco who, annoyingly enough, got a freaking Trireme into line of sight just as I squashed the last city on my continent. Apparently 'hates you for being a terrible Warmonger' does wear off, because we were eventually bros. In fact, possibly on account of not being on their continent and having border friction, I was almost immediately buddy-buddy with everyone else, and because of my fast start (I even nailed the Great Library early on!), I remained in the lead slightly for a good part of the game, and then gradually pulled away as my puppeted cities grew and were improved by a worker army that had a lot of ground to cover. I played politics and gave gifts to stay friendly with everyone, and world peace didn't break down until ideologies entered the picture - I didn't piss anyone off or get denounced until very late when I was using my diplomatic muscle to ram unpopular policies through the U.N. As per usual with a Scentific victory, I could have won about 35 turns earlier with a Diplomatic victory on the first U.N. world leader vote, because by that point I already had every single city state in the world as my best bud on account of having insane gold production by that point in the game. One amusing gameplay quirk: I wanted to maintain research agreements with every other civ to cement my scientific lead, but to do so, I had to occasionally give the AI gold so they would have enough to open the agreement with me! Pretty silly. And I got a nice diplomatic boost for being a nice guy for giving them gold  Still, that was my first Emperor win, I'm surprised it went as well as it did. I suppose if I dare to try Immortal I should go for an early game military win, it's the only victory type I haven't tried in BNW yet. victrix fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 00:50
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fspades posted:I'm really starting to think that Rev3Games reviewer was right and this game urgently needs some balancing. Well Assyria gets a unique unit in the classical era that attacks enemy cities with a combat power of 24, plus they give each other a 50% bonus if nearby. So, yeah. I'm not sure if this was a bug that already existed or was just introduced, but if a city-state starts a culture competition on the same turn that you adopt a new policy, the game will accidentally count your entire sum total of culture for the quest. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 01:03
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Can someone explain the unhappyness/revolt mechanic to me? I'm a bit unsure. I have a MASSIVE tourism thing going on with 206 a turn. Ethopia is the only one I'm not influential with yet, and he's way behind on 54 a turn. However, I've decided to become a glorious dictatorship of the proletariat while he clings to his guns and religions and his stupid Freedom. No matter, I am happier and have more tourism going. However, I notice in the culture victory screen has has some unhappiness of about -8. Is that directly related to my happiness? Or is it just a small bit because of my happiness? Like, if I make my citizens even happier will his become increasingly unhappy, or is that number just a set value of 8 based on where we are in the game? I want to know if I should invest in making my citizens even happier than they are now, or if that effort is best directed towards science or something. Thanks!
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Jul 12, 2013 01:10
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My observations of the new civilizations so far: * Assyria, Shoshone, and Zulu are really strong. Ashurbanipal can give Attila a run for his money and Shaka is as bloodthirsty as Monty. Pocatello's a bro, but he's also very strong early in the game and you absolutely want to kill him early if he's nearby, lest he gobble up all the territory he can find. * Venice either does great or terrible. If Enrico can eat a few city-states and set up his trade routes, he's well on his way to having approximately all the money. If he gets hit early, there's not a whole lot he can do. * Maria, true to life, is a nutcase. She'll be your best friend one moment, screaming bloody murder the next. Freitorias are irritating if you're going for city-states. * Pedro's pretty chill, but he's similar to Darius in that his UA runs on golden ages. Brazil's a later bloomer than Persia, but can be a major problem on higher difficulties if you're going for a culture win. * Indonesia is weird. All of their special stuff is interesting, but none of it seems to really gel. Kris can be amazing or lame. Gajah does better on island maps or at least island starts where his UA is more applicable. * Not very impressed with Poland. Solidarity, the ducal stable, and winged hussars all seem to fall under the heading of "nice to have, but nothing to build a strategy around." * Morocco is another odd case. Their UA benefits both them and other civs, and Ahmad seems to be laid-back. Berber cavalry are nothing special, but kasbahs are interesting. Not quite a private Petra, but nevertheless very helpful in the desert. Haven't seen AI Morocco do much of note.
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Jul 12, 2013 01:16
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Really liking all the changes and additions with BNW. I love that Firaxis is still supporting this game so well, I hope it continues. I know if they make more DLC I would gladly continue to throw money at them. Just one more turn... I just had my first scarey moment with the World Congress. That jerk Alexander tried to pass a trade embargo against me, thankfully it failed. Had that passed... well, I just don't know. 
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Jul 12, 2013 01:20
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Cythereal posted:* Not very impressed with Poland. Solidarity, the ducal stable, and winged hussars all seem to fall under the heading of "nice to have, but nothing to build a strategy around." I disagree. While the hussars fall under "Lol, lancers" the stable is REALLY good if you have any sort of the necessary resources around. And your UA basically reads "Get a free social policy tree" by the time you reach lategame. You aren't getting those policies all at once, but you ARE getting 5-6 more than all the other civs in the game. Having an Oracle effect every time you enter a new era is amazing and I love Poland so much for it.
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Jul 12, 2013 01:20
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