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Diplomacy would be almost instantly fixed if buying out a city state wasn't instant, but rather +influence over a set amount of turns that decreases the further along in eras you go (similar to how World Congress frequency works). Quest rewards would still be instant influence, thus incentivizing you to do quests even lategame when you have thousands of gold.
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Jul 15, 2013 07:35
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I also still think some variant of instant runoff voting would also make world congress way better.
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Jul 15, 2013 07:48
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Wow the Zulu are so intense. They tore through half a continent in my latest playthrough. But when they started getting close to my border, I called for a general trade embargo and they went -150 GPT in the hole. Poor Shaka.Brannock posted:Diplomacy would be almost instantly fixed if buying out a city state wasn't instant, but rather +influence over a set amount of turns that decreases the further along in eras you go (similar to how World Congress frequency works). I was thinking the exact same thing. The problem with the current system is how it gives city-states such an inordinate impact over the world congress, and yet allows players to instantly exploit that advantage whenever they want to (like the turn before the vote). It feels more like bribing the city-state than developing a relationship with one. And because they're so much cheaper and easier to deal with than other civilizations, you have very little incentive to actually negotiate with the other civs. Kaal fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 07:48
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Well, this is a nailbiter. I have 34 delegates and just noticed about 15 turns before the UN vote that I need 40, whereas I thought it was 30. I declared war on England and liberated three capitals from her. Hopefully "recalled to life" status is enough to get other civs to vote for me. If it is, the game's in the bag; they have 6, 4, and 4 delegates. If not, well, Elizabeth's city-state allies declared war on me, revealing them to me on the map (Before that I was allied with every city-state known to me), so I'm expending my remaining gold and using Treaty Organization and Arsenal of Democracy to try to court some of them. I've made a few friends but I don't have the cash to flip Lizzie's deep-seated alliances over a couple of turns, if the civs I just liberated don't come through for me on this vote I'll just have to hope the next one comes around before Suleiman completes his spaceship. e: I scraped together another 1000 gold and sent it to Singapore and made one more ally one turn before the vote. Now as long as one other civ votes for me, I'm good. 
TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 08:07
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Playing without aiming for a religion and avoiding one on purpose is an interesting look at how the AI prioritizes spreading religion unrestrained. My third game in BNW (first Brazil, second Poland) as Venice had me aim for a Freedom Culture victory while also getting the Venice-specific achievement of conquering the holy city of the religion that Venice follows. It flipped between Iroquois and Persian control with constant prophet bombs and missionaries running amok my puppeted CS empire, as I burned my GPs on holy sites to fund any potential faith buildings I'd receive. I lucked out on buying these faith buildings as the AI kept swapping what religion of the day the Venetian territories would be following that decade. The fun came in timing the push for the achievement. Persia had solid religious control over Venice proper after the Iroquois ran out of prophets, but Darius had pushed an early war against China and had good amounts of territory and technology compared to my other neighbors. With the exception of marginalized China, everyone on my continent was friendly with each other, but Darius was too trusting and too greedy. He saw in me a religious ally, I saw in him a mark just waiting for a knife in the ribs. During the modern era, after numerous Declarations of Friendship and Research Agreements were concluded, I bribed Darius up to 25 GPT per civ to declare war on everyone in the world. He had RAs and DOFs with many of them and got a nasty backstabber label, which suited me just fine. My own DOF with Persia had run out and I could stand to lose progress on an RA that was still active. Then, the finest Declaration of War I could ever hope for: Darius, now at war with the world thanks to promises of gold in the future from the lips of an old, blind Venetian Duke, is told by my emissary that Venice declares war against him on the same turn, nullifying the GPT agreements and getting no warmongering penalty since I was DOWing a backstabbing monster. Persepolis and the rest of the Persian empire fell to Venetian arms, and absolutely none of my friends (or neutral acquaintances) gave me the warmongering menace penalty after the final Persian city was looted and puppeted. The Great Betrayal, indeed, Steam. Olive Branch fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 08:13
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I just realised that I could mass-delete my entire army and air force for about 4000 gold, which was enough to buy all the delegates I needed. Re: civilization-specific achievements, I was not able to get mine because Portugal was not on the map.  Olive Branch posted:The Great Betrayal, indeed, Steam.  Is your name supposed to be some kind of joke? TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 08:18
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thehumandignity posted:I just realised that I could mass-delete my entire army and air force for about 4000 gold, which was enough to buy all the delegates I needed. Did any of the liberated civs end up voting for you? I'm wondering if that's a viable way to gain votes.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:24
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Did any of the liberated civs end up voting for you? I'm wondering if that's a viable way to gain votes. Yes. I won with 54/40 votes. I just wanted to be extra-safe. Note that two other civs for whom I liberated their capitals did not vote for me. Only the ones that were completely annihilated. So when the Aztecs lost their booming metropolis on the mainland and were left in exile on their island colonies for centuries and then came back thanks to me? No, they flushed their four delegates on voting for themselves. Carthage gets some lovely city back with a composite bowman and four citizens in 1975 AD, they vote for me.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:26
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Olive Branch posted:The Great Betrayal, indeed, Steam. I had absolutely no idea you could utilize the diplomacy system like that. Goddamn.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:29
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Something I’ve noticed is that unlike the culture cost penalty, the 5% increase in tech costs for each city you own decreases if you get rid of cities. In games where I do a lot of conquering, I’ve taken to pulling up the city economic overview and trading away crappy cities to friendly AIs. If you’ve revived an AI, they’re perfect for this. You have permanent open borders with them, they’ll love you forever, and if they stop loving you, what are they going to do about it? Attack your battleships with triremes? It’s probably possible to abuse the tech cost scaling by trading all of your cities immediately before popping great scientists. The number of beakers you receive is based on your last eight turns of science, when you had lots of cities, but the tech costs instantly decrease when you trade them all away. Theoretically you’d get twice as many techs as you should if you had twenty cities and traded away everything but your four core cities. That said, I haven’t actually tried it.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:33
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Losing your cities seems like an awful big loss for just a Great Scientist.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:41
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Kaal posted:Wow the Zulu are so intense. They tore through half a continent in my latest playthrough. But when they started getting close to my border, I called for a general trade embargo and they went -150 GPT in the hole. Poor Shaka. Gold production is so dependent on trade in BNW that I strongly suspect that if you get embargoed, you may as well just quit unless you're about to win the game anyway.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:42
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RagnarokAngel posted:Losing your cities seems like an awful big loss for just a Great Scientist. Yeah, since you spend the last few turns of a science victory building spaceship parts in half a dozen cities anyways trimming yourself down doesn't really accomplish anything. Might be a neat way to win a diplo victory really fast though, selling your cities for gold so the AI's can't bribe you can guarantee a win and let you beaker to globalization faster.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:43
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At first I was thinking that Indonesia looked really lackluster with their marginalised melee units that may or may not turn out to be pieces of poo poo (It's also possible that they get great promotions, but that doesn't stack up well against the Impi, a UU that's an improvement on what is probably going to be the backbone of your earliest armies anyway, and is basically guaranteed to get great promotions instead of playing a lottery for them). Then I remembered that you're basically guaranteed to have 1 or 2 followers of a religion if you trade with a deeply religious city. I guess they could be pretty good if you got trade routes and gardens early.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:45
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RagnarokAngel posted:Losing your cities seems like an awful big loss for just a Great Scientist. The idea would be to pop several great scientists at the same time to clinch a science victory. The Freedom policy allowing you to buy spaceship parts with gold would help, as would all the gold you’d get for selling the cities to friends.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:46
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thehumandignity posted:At first I was thinking that Indonesia looked really lackluster with their marginalised melee units that may or may not turn out to be pieces of poo poo (It's also possible that they get great promotions, but that doesn't stack up well against the Impi, a UU that's an improvement on what is probably going to be the backbone of your earliest armies anyway, and is basically guaranteed to get great promotions instead of playing a lottery for them). Then I remembered that you're basically guaranteed to have 1 or 2 followers of a religion if you trade with a deeply religious city. I guess they could be pretty good if you got trade routes and gardens early. Indonesia's real strength is getting three cities that are happiness neutral and come with a luxury to sell. Given that Jakarta's likely coastal and your free cities will likely be coastal too, you can sell the bonus luxuries for GPT to keep your economy sane and use trade ships to pump food and hammers into Jakarta and make it a monstrously huge city. The Kris Swordsmen are fun, but not really essential. I give the ones that get the lovely promotions to a CS.
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Jul 15, 2013 09:12
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I decided to start a game as the Shoshone. Got a pretty good start. I picked the Shoshone because, naturlich, I still wanted to play a new guy, and this time I decided to be a sprawling order militarised rear end in a top hat and the Shoshone seem like a well-rounded civ suited to whatever so I went with them. Holy poo poo, though, I neglected to look at their unique ability and had no idea this would happen. Like I said, good start. I take a look at it, and think, of course getting that wheat farmed should be my priority. Then maybe I'll try to get mines built but I want to get horseback riding and trapping, too, so I can diversify my resources and set up a lucrative trade route. A nebulous opening strategy in mind, I click the found city button.  Goddrat. I'm probably the last person in the thread who doesn't know this at this point, but the Shoshone's unique ability is starting every city with extra territory. I could pick extra population from my first ruin and assign it to that copper hill and have some decent income right off the bat if I wanted. And I thought their unique units were good. poo poo. e: That patch of grassland on the left does not extend into its adjacent wheat. Boooooooo.
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Jul 15, 2013 09:17
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I was wondering if BNW is backwards-compatible with non BNW-owners? It seems like Civ5 would be the sort of series to allow it... really hoping
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Jul 15, 2013 09:29
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Jedit posted:Gold production is so dependent on trade in BNW that I strongly suspect that if you get embargoed, you may as well just quit unless you're about to win the game anyway. There should be an option to nationalize everything as a big "gently caress you" to everyone and to counteract how lovely being embargoed is. Like, you're making enough gold to be self-sufficient, but that's at the cost of diplomacy and influence towards a cultural victory (from lost trade routes).
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Jul 15, 2013 09:38
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truther posted:I was wondering if BNW is backwards-compatible with non BNW-owners? Do you mean in multiplayer? If so you goto the dlc menu and disable Brave New World before setting up the game.
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Jul 15, 2013 09:50
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Yeah, multiplayer. Bugger, no chance he'll be buying the expansion. Thanks anyway
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Jul 15, 2013 10:04
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RagnarokAngel posted:Do you mean in multiplayer? If so you goto the dlc menu and disable Brave New World before setting up the game. No, it'll switch in the lobby. When I first started BNW I accidentally loaded my GNK multiplayer 'save', friends joined the lobby and it had switched to GNK completely. New civs weren't available, etc.
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Jul 15, 2013 10:20
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I have this tactic that i've fallen for and i'm trying to perfect. Was wondering if i could get some tips from some of the more experienced CivGoons! Basically i love big empires, i love the way they look, but i also like to have strong culture growth for stronger military policies and etc... Domination victory. So i get four really strong cities up, grow them large, get to around composite bowmen and at that point i usually have a few angry glares or declerations of war. So i start puppeting their entire empires except the capitals that i assume direct control over, but i eventually run into happiness problems. I've been managing to pull myself out of them, but they slow me down significantly at times. The civ i'm using for it is the Inca, really love the defensible, but still good/great cities due to terrace farming and the mountain movement is such a tactical advantage it almost feels like cheating at times.
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Jul 15, 2013 10:21
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Uh oh, looks like we found someone doing the "4 city cheater rush". God have mercy on his soul. If I take over a civ early I usually get out a bunch of workers and just pick the cities one by one, work the poo poo out of them until they're going to be really productive, and then annex them. Use trade routes to make them grow, depending on finances.
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Jul 15, 2013 10:29
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thehumandignity posted:I decided to start a game as the Shoshone. Got a pretty good start. I picked the Shoshone because, naturlich, I still wanted to play a new guy, and this time I decided to be a sprawling order militarised rear end in a top hat and the Shoshone seem like a well-rounded civ suited to whatever so I went with them. Holy poo poo, though, I neglected to look at their unique ability and had no idea this would happen. Yep. Eight free tiles per city. And they're true free tiles, your first cultural expansion is still just 15 culture. Shoshone kind of reinforce just how important border growth is. The ability to settle a city in what would otherwise be a slow developing area and be able to instantly get access to all of its good tiles is just really awesome.
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Jul 15, 2013 10:52
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I ran into a ruin on the very first turn. 2 population from turn 1.
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Jul 15, 2013 11:03
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Dongattack posted:I have this tactic that i've fallen for and i'm trying to perfect. Was wondering if i could get some tips from some of the more experienced CivGoons! The happiness mechanic still really frustrates me. I feel like the player simply can't expand as fast the AI can. I hate having an army wait around while I desperately scrounge for more happiness. I feel like I would really enjoy a game that just doubled the happiness bonuses from everything, but I have no idea if that would be balanced. Right now the happiness system is stifling until late game, when ideologies with shitloads of happy kick in.
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Jul 15, 2013 11:07
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thehumandignity posted:I ran into a ruin on the very first turn. 2 population from turn 1. Grab culture with that and find a pop one for 2-3. You can almost always guarantee at least three huts so you can go culture, pop (at the same time or just after you take your policy) and then tech once your first tech pops. If you get lucky, culture/religion/pop/tech can get you a ridiculous start. for illustration 
Verviticus fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 11:14
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I'm really loving how all the mechanics from G&K and BNW are coming together strategically. I rushed a city on Mount Sinai to start off my first game as the Inca, then used the faith to found a quick Sikhism with Holy Warriors (using the Pantheon bonus of extra faith from natural wonders, meaning +12 faith per turn from the Mount Sinai tile - faith that turns into units with Holy Warriors). The faith-purchased military units combined with the Terracotta Army let me pull a huge force out of my rear end, and I grabbed the quick Great General from early in the honor policy tree. That made it easy to steamroll my neighbor, Sweden, and settle/conquer half of the continent for myself. Once my borders butted up with the other three continental civs, I enhanced my religion with Just War (+20% combat strength near enemy cities with my religion) and used my next great prophet to prepare the way for my shiny new/upgraded medieval army of Longswords and Trebuchets. My economy survived this storm of troops because I'm paying basically nothing in tile maintenance thanks to the Inca special ability for free roads on hills, yet am raking in a whopping 175 gold per turn just from city connections to my capitol. Not to mention that there are like 20 cities on the continent and I took Initiation Rights, which means +100 gold every time one of those cities converts to my religion for the first time. And since I can afford garrisons from all that gold income, my happiness and cultural development stayed on track thanks to the policy that grants happiness and culture for garrison units. It also helped that maxing honor towards the end of the wars also gave me a ton of gold for killing units, which let me bribe several mercantile city states for their sweet unique luxury goods. Having conquered the entire continent and killed off four civs, I'm planning to aim for a conquest win. Gotta get over the ocean to the other continent though, which contains 3 civs that are marginally ahead of me technologically (at least until my infrastructure catches up to my conquests). By the time my transport tech lines up I'll have ~3 great prophets ready to justify my upcoming war by converting my entire target civ. I got Unity of the Prophets for my reformation belief (Prophets and Inquisitors only remove half your religion rather than all of it), which means that I shouldn't just get Inquisitored-out while I'm prophet-bombing the new world. Going to holy war everyone's faces off after that. This is a really fun game. e: My religion, Sikhism, is entirely composed of beliefs that I've literally never taken before, and the fact that it's working feels awesome to me. Totally different from my usual builder playstyle: - One With Nature - Initiation Rights - Holy Warriors - Asceticism - Just War - Unity of the Prophets Corbeau fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 11:14
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splifyphus posted:The happiness mechanic still really frustrates me. I feel like the player simply can't expand as fast the AI can. I hate having an army wait around while I desperately scrounge for more happiness. Find and work really hard to befriend a mercantile city state. They are worth a shitton of happiness, and if they gift you a redundant asset, trade it.
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Jul 15, 2013 11:15
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I like the conundrum in my current game (ten civs, small continents). Augustus and Askia are dominating technologically and militarily, while Askia is also leading culturally. The twist is that they're sitting on the same small continent alone in the center of the map, and the only thing stopping them from becoming unstoppable is each other. They fight to a standstill, make peace, rebuild their armies and fight to another standstill. Meanwhile, Genghis Khan is a little behind them but slowly expanding on a continent a little to their west. I'm on an island east of Augustus (as the Shoshone) and I think Askia's the only thing stopping him from toppling my place of peace. I'm playing for a faith-based cultural victory and basically need to overtake Askia's cultural lead and avoid war with Augustus. I'm trying to decide how best to handle this situation without tipping the scales in anyone's favor but my own. Augustus has enough delegates to virtually control the World Congress, so I'm gonna hope he proposes an Askia embargo, then I'll pay Genghis to capture Askia's cities once he's financially crippled, and then coast to a cultural victory while Genghis and Augustus blow each other up until the end of days. Strategizing is fun.
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Jul 15, 2013 12:16
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Playing as Venice, I played probably one of my best games ever on King level - I got lucky with my initial city placement as I had 7 city states around on the same continent. I focused on economy and wonders first up and surprisingly having one city seemed to be a boon rather then a weakness as I could just focus on min/maxing the city for wonders/great people while I steadily pumped out great merchants to buy all the city states around me. I had an insane amount of gold and culture throughout the game and in the Medieval era decided to go for a tourism/culture victory. Meanwhile on the other continent Alexander was laying waste to everything and being perma-allied with his satellite of city states meant that he was someone to keep at bay....his military hopelessly outnumbered all other nations. In the late game he had the majority in the world congress due to having all the city states as allies, every now and then I'd be able to pick one off but due to the voting mechanics he was able to keep throwing up resolutions that actively hindered my progress. I was able to hold him off on the first World leader vote by buying off some of the nations in the hope that I could clinch the culture victory unfortunately he voted himself in the 2nd time around and the other nations decided not to allow me to bribe them.  I'm not sure if their sudden change of heart was the nukes I was stockpiling as a deterrant to Alexander (He was constantly mocking our comparative military disparity) or they 'knew' that I was 5-6 turns from cultural domination. At the end game I had an impressive 700 Tourism coming each turn. Overall the game apparently took 25hrs, though I'm pretty sure I idled a lot of the time doing RL poo poo, but I really enjoyed Venice and would recommend the cultural/tourism/great person build. I actually never went to war once in the entire game - I think that's a first for me as well.
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Jul 15, 2013 12:32
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So I'm now up to 3 victories, 2 via culture and 1 via diplomacy (a culture win would have been inevitable in another 10-20 turns in that one). I still haven't seen a single city flip. Either I'm doing something wrong or I'm just not lucky enough.
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Jul 15, 2013 13:31
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Verviticus posted:Grab culture with that and find a pop one for 2-3. You can almost always guarantee at least three huts so you can go culture, pop (at the same time or just after you take your policy) and then tech once your first tech pops. If you get lucky, culture/religion/pop/tech can get you a ridiculous start. Shoshone are by far the best civ right now. Extra land, combat bonus and the totally ridiculous choosing of your rewards from ancient ruins means you can almost certainly be off to a great early game, which then snowballs into a great late game. Played my first full game of BNW this weekend as Shoshone (Emperor, 11 civ, large pangaea), went for a culture victory, as that was my preferred playstyle, and the changes seemed to offer a fresh challenge. Went for my usual 4 city tall build, and I had snowballed so much from the early game that I could have won under any victory condition I felt like (other than diplomatic). Had a huge lead on tech and army, and my culture/tourism overwhelmed all but 1 civ, who I decided to destroy and pick up the win early, rather than wait for them to succumb. It was probably the most dominant game I've had in Civ 5 since release. The AI also seem more aggressive towards city states, so I picked up quite a few allies just by liberating them, and spending my gold to improve my super cities, and pick up units.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:27
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I like the new Culture Victory system, but it seems like you need to be so loving powerful to win a culture game any other victory would work as well. You need trade routes to every civ to get a quick victory, you need to research at least up to the national visitor center, you need to beeline several wonders, you need a good amount of delegates to vote for the appropriate resolutions and stop embargoes against you, and you need a bunch of military to keep AI's from invading and wrecking your poo poo. All these things lead to you having a good amount of tech, military and delegates, so you can kind of choose your victory. Also, it's easier to dominate the weakest cultural civs culturally, and the stronger cultural civs militarily, turning all culture wins into semi-militaristic ones. Which is kinda neat, as they seem to have modeled culture victories on the spread of Americanism in the '50/'60's. Flipping of AI cities does not really happen that much unfortunately, as the AI seemingly still gets a bunch of happiness bonuses. I really liked playing as Venice as well, double amounts of trade routes is obscene, pulling in hundreds of gold by the medieval era pretty much breaks the game.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:42
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Samopsa posted:I like the new Culture Victory system, but it seems like you need to be so loving powerful to win a culture game any other victory would work as well. In my Venice game on king - I rushed GL and Optics (to puppet my nearest city-state as early as possible) and wound up way in the lead the entire game to the point that I was 2 eras ahead of everyone else at end game every wonder that I started I finished, and I won both the Worlds Fair and International Games races. Even though I was seriously tech/science-focused, by the time I had 5/6 spaceship parts I had also strong allied control of 7/8 remaining city-states (the last one I hadn't even discovered because it had become territory locked) and culture influence over 6/7 of the other civs, with the last at 90%. Had I focused on either diplomatic or culture victories 50 turns prior to winning, I probably would have won the game 20 turns before I did On a slightly different note, does anyone know if it's possible for Diplomats to buy World Leader votes?
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Jul 15, 2013 15:03
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I'm trying to win culturally as France but even pumping out 650 tourism/turn after building the world's fair in the early atomic era, I have 450 turns to go before Siam gets flipped culturally. It would take a massive payment of resources to even get open borders with him and concert tours have no hope of making up the difference. I guess it's time for a diplomatic victory then. Also, I'm starting to really enjoy giving away conquered cities to weakling civs. I crushed Shoshone after he unwisely sent all of his forces to take Thebes. I couldn't keep all of the cities for happiness reasons, so I donated a 17 pop city to Ramesses and he, uh, burned it to the ground. Okay then, way to treat that nice gift I gave you.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:08
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Have I ruined my game? I'm playing as Alexander on King. Maximum computer players, huge map, epic speed, Earth. I chose as opponents a bunch of aggressive nations, such as Mongolia, Aztecs, Japan, Rome and France. Computer tossed me in a good land, actually. Few opponents close by, I had a lot of space to send my settlers to. So many barbarians, though, it feels like I'm playing with raging barbarians on. And they're pretty smart, too, the AI is much improved in this expansion. Anyway, along comes a Moroccan settler and build a city RIGHT NEXT to my second city, grabbing 3 silver veins at once. I move my troops next to him and he questions why there are so many soldiers at his borders. I reply with "just passing through", since I was still spawning troops. Some 20 turns later, I attack him and destroy his douchebag city. Now I am marked with the Seal of Traitorous Shame. Everyone seems to hate my guts. Is there any way to turn this around?
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Jul 15, 2013 15:12
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You'll keep that malus for a looooong time, if not forever. Just roll with it, you're Alexander, so just be an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:14
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I've never listened to the Civ 5 soundtrack before but I've been playing with it on lately and drat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMbl_atF3Wo
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Jul 15, 2013 15:17
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