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Deceitful Penguin posted:For a moment I thought you were gonna come out as Bavarian, what with the whole "Wir sind unseren eigenes Land!" and whatnot. And if you wanna say a Swabian dude doesn't have more in common with an Austrian than, say, Schleswig-Holstein I don't know what to tell you. Modern German is an artificially constructed language similar to, beh, one of the dialects, forget which one, while the country itself is an amalgamation of various counties, principalities, furstdoms and whatevers, united only 'cause of politics. And hell, you don't have to go far back when that meant something different. What a weird rant. An artificially constructed language is something like Esperanto. Without even digging too deep, I guess Switzerland (four languages!), Belgium (two), Spain (at least three), the UK, Italy etc. all do not exist either, because they either don't have their own languages or their languages are just as "artificially constructed" as German is. Deceitful Penguin posted:And people immigrate for the money. For fucks sake, people immigrate to the US, you think they wouldn't go for Germany, no matter the flaws? You think they should be happy you're letting them in at all? Be serious. What are you trying to say exactly? That they are coming for the money or not? And that they shouldn't be happy? What's the point of immigrating to a place that doesn't make you happy or give you the expectation that you're better off than before? Deceitful Penguin posted:Wow, it's like that in many other countries? Good thing we aren't in a thread, say, solely defined by it's discussion of a certain country but instead all of the major ones. Then you'd look a bit like an idiot for criticizing the discussion as overly specific instead of being flawed or wrong somehow. And if we really wanna go down that road, yeah countries, nations, all kinds of poo poo like that is pretty drat arbitrary most of the time. Well, if it's all just the same poo poo, man, then I don't know, man, why people want to deal with that poo poo, man, instead of just staying where they are, man. In any event, even in a thread about Germany specifically, it's still okay to compare Germany to other countries. You've just done that with the US. icantfindaname posted:It's almost as if the idea of a nation state is discredited and obsolete. This doesn't mean you have to open the borders to literally everyone, but it would seem to indicate that "well they don't have the same religion and aren't trying their utmost to become the most German Germans on earth" is not a valid reason to relegate an ethnic group to second class status and stuff them in ghettos for decades. The hyperbole about the cultural expectations is nice and it may be that many people regard the nation state the way you do (and I'm doing that also to a degree), but nonetheless I don't think it's so wrong to compare countries not only to some ideal utopia where no nations and borders exist, but to other existing countries and how they're handling things.
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May 12, 2013 06:04
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I still don't get what german Leitkultur is supposed to be and how those who don't follow it are refusing integration and should be deported if they do anything wrong. Cause the only thing differenciating Murat the repeat offender who doesn't feel part of Leitkultur from Punker-Kalle the repeat offender who doesn't feel part of Leitkultur is their ancestry and that sure as hell shouldn't be reason to question the germanness or even deport one and keep the other.
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May 12, 2013 18:37
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German culture should be open to all kinds of new things in order to not get stale! If people stop eating Sauerbraten and want to eat Döner instead than that's the way it is. Putting cool new things into our culture should not be feared.
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May 12, 2013 22:57
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If it reassures you guy people in France also complain about Kebab 
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May 12, 2013 23:11
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flavor posted:What a weird rant. An artificially constructed language is something like Esperanto.  Your linguistic idiocy aside, the point is yes, national identity and the concept of the nation state is a pretty recent and arbitrary concept. This isn't up for debate. You'd have to be incredibly dense not to know this, seeing as you could learn this through linguistics, civics, political science, hell, almost any social science, which all go into how fluid such an identity is, but good job on missing that I guess. The answer to my question, which was a bit too complex for you I guess, is that the the two Germans in opposite sides of the country have more in common with their neighbours in the nearby countries than their fellow German on the opposite side of the country. flavor posted:What are you trying to say exactly? That they are coming for the money or not? And that they shouldn't be happy? flavor posted:Well, if it's all just the same poo poo, man, then I don't know, man, why people want to deal with that poo poo, man, instead of just staying where they are, man. Yea, there are places more lovely economically than Germany. This is due to a little thing called "neo-colonialism" and "neo-liberalism" that perpetuates systematic inequity across the entire world. You may have heard of this, it's the reason why the West is stupidly overpaid in everything they do while the rest works for peanuts to sustain our standard of living. If you haven't been living under a rock you may have heard of it. flavor posted:In any event, even in a thread about Germany specifically, it's still okay to compare Germany to other countries. You've just done that with the US. The point wasn't "Don't compare countries", it was that your point was so badly made that, aside from being wrong, if I didn't recognize you as a regular I'd have thought it a drive-by-shitpost. Kurtofan posted:If it reassures you guy people in France also complain about Kebab
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May 13, 2013 18:11
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niethan posted:I still don't get what german Leitkultur is supposed to be and how those who don't follow it are refusing integration and should be deported if they do anything wrong. Cause the only thing differenciating Murat the repeat offender who doesn't feel part of Leitkultur from Punker-Kalle the repeat offender who doesn't feel part of Leitkultur is their ancestry and that sure as hell shouldn't be reason to question the germanness or even deport one and keep the other. Because there was a difference between those two with first generation immigrants, and since the whole issue of immigration has been basically ignored for the longest time most people's thinking has not evolved beyond ideas from the 1960s. The whole situation has dramatically changed and people refuse to acknowledge it. And it's not just politicians or even followers of a specific political ideology, society as a whole is pretty much to blame for loving this one up and now we're paying the price.
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May 13, 2013 21:09
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Dear Deceitful Penguin, you really need to learn how to not see people who disagree with you as subhuman scum, retarded or not arguing in good faith while throwing expletives, accusations and baseless speculation about their living circumstances around. If you absolutely cannot help feeling that people disagreeing with you are lower than low for it, at least keep it to yourself and let the arguments speak for themselves. People will take you more seriously and are more likely to be swayed if you keep it civil. Below is a condensed compilation of what I mean:Deceitful Penguin posted:idiocy This isn't up for debate incredibly dense hell, good job on missing that too complex for you What the gently caress Do you still live in your moms basement and spend all your money on games, weed and booze? In the adult world, poo poo poo poo Are you even capable of arguing in good faith? Are you being deliberately obtuse lovely If you haven't been living under a rock forums poster flavour a point that shouldn't be used outside of kindergarden and only then one for the developmentally differently abled I'd have thought it a drive-by-shitpost. If you would care to repost what you had to say without the abuse, then I'll reply to your points. Otherwise it would take too much of my time to dig for the arguments within it.
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May 13, 2013 23:29
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flavor posted:If you would care to repost what you had to say without the abuse, then I'll reply to your points. Otherwise it would take too much of my time to dig for the arguments within it. Looking at it again, the points were: National identity is fluid and therefore trying to talk about people not adapting can just as easily be framed as the culture, i.e. goverment/people/whatever not adapting to them and that people immigrate despite bad conditions due to simple economics. Eh. VVVVV Ahhh, do they now? I wonder when my country becomes like that, so far I've never heard anyone complain about too many foreign restaurants, maybe because Icelandic food is so terrible. Too bad there ain't a France thread though, would make an interesting read. Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 01:08 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 00:25
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
That's what I was implying. My post was supposed to be read as "racists in France also complain that there are too many Kebab restaurants"
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May 14, 2013 00:53
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Hey German thread, quick question, whats the word for ALDIs business model? I know its gently caress the workers, only 5 people in the store to do everything, crap wages, etc combined with "just in time" Cheers!
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Jul 16, 2013 10:15
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You're looking for "Discounter".
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Jul 16, 2013 10:19
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BCR posted:Hey German thread, quick question, whats the word for ALDIs business model? Cost leadership is the word for their strategy.
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Jul 16, 2013 11:17
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I'd like to take a second and, in true german fashion, complain a bit. How far have we fallen to routinely and unflinchingly use the word "shitstorm" in media and journalism now? I outright refuse to believe the german language cannot come up with a better way to describe a bunch of people spergin' on social media networks...which is already a dumb thing to report on, considering most news channels now have their own "chief social media network correspondent" or somesuch, stooping to CNN's level in the process.
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Jul 16, 2013 11:34
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I think it's symptomatic for a general uneasiness in German public discourse when dealing with social media and the internet as such. Just look at any political talk show that barely grazes this topic. It is, for the most part, painful to watch. As for the word "shitstorm": German offers great replacements, so I agree with you there. How about Scheißsturm? Or Kotgewitter?
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Jul 16, 2013 12:12
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Using uncessary foreign words is hardly unique to Germans, but it does seem to occur more often than elsewhere. I remember reading an article about Somalian islamists on Zeit.de that used the word "warlord" (which according to etymological dictionaries entered English as a calque of "Kriegsherr") and referred to the "African Union" instead of "Afrikanische Union".
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Jul 16, 2013 12:41
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parrhesia posted:Kotgewitter? Beautiful! 
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Jul 16, 2013 12:42
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Kopijeger posted:Using uncessary foreign words is hardly unique to Germans, but it does seem to occur more often than elsewhere. I remember reading an article about Somalian islamists on Zeit.de that used the word "warlord" (which according to etymological dictionaries entered English as a calque of "Kriegsherr") and referred to the "African Union" instead of "Afrikanische Union". While the African Union thing is stupid, I'll give you that, warlord is not wrong in any way. "Wikipedia posted:Warlord mit Kriegsherr zu übersetzen, ist zwar linguistisch korrekt; jedoch inhaltlich unvollständig. Der „Warlord“ ist mehr als ein Condottiere. Korrekter wäre die Übersetzung mit Kriegsfürst. Sie ist aber irreführend, weil Warlords keinem Adelsgeschlecht entstammen und nicht ausschließlich vom Kriegshandwerk leben, sondern auch in legalen und illegalen Wirtschaftszweigen aktiv sind [2]. Ein Warlord beherrscht als alleiniger Machtinhaber ein mehr oder weniger regional abgegrenztes Gebiet, das sich innerhalb eines Staatsgebietes befindet. Dies ist nur möglich, wenn der Zentralstaat einem Warlord Autonomie zugesteht oder nicht in der Lage ist, sein Gewaltmonopol gegenüber dem Warlord durchzusetzen. Darum findet man Warlords oft in Bürgerkriegsregionen. Die gegenwärtige Existenz der Warlords ist ohne die Entstaatlichung der neuen Kriege nicht denkbar. As for the shitstorm, you don't have to germanize every word, especially if the direct translation is stupid. If you're not please with the original, foreign word you might want to rephrase it, Öffentlicher Aufschrei for example. But shitstorm is shorter, sounds cooler because it's English and really, at this point most of the media doesn't have any journalistic integrity left anyway.
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Jul 16, 2013 13:07
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Wait, there are semi-serious media companies that literally use the word "shitstorm"?
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Jul 16, 2013 16:49
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ArchangeI posted:Wait, there are semi-serious media companies that literally use the word "shitstorm"? Yes and they will probably ditch the quotation marks around it soon enough, eventually using it like just another anglicism. As for why they don't have a German word for it, it's probably because the whole shitstorm use started on the internet in this mysterious "Netzkultur" of the "digital natives". Maybe the use of net lingo in the news media will go down when the next election functionally kills what's left of the Pirate Party in Germany.
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Jul 16, 2013 17:10
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Es steht neuerdings sogar im Duden. http://www.duden.de/suchen/dudenonline/shitstorm Likely not going away anytime soon. I think it's justified. "Öffentlicher Aufschrei" doesn't work for me because social media are anything but public like newspapers. Sure you can access them but the average German won't have any idea about memes like #aufschrei unless newspapers tell them about it. Using "shitstorm" as a description for stuff that enrages Twitter works fine I think. Maybe "die Sau durchs Dorf treiben" is more reflected on the fact that there's always some flavor-of-the-week scandal everyone gets agitated about and then forgets without the "internet is serious business guys" vibe you get when people report that there have been n tweets with the hashtag #XY or that some video got n hits when in reality it tells you jack poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2013 17:35
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I've come to really like Tagesschaum mit Friedrich Küppersbusch. He sometimes gets things wrong (i.e. why the Pirates aren't talking about the NSA scandal), but to me he's kinda like a super dry Jon Stewart without a budget. http://www.tagesschaum.tv/ http://www.youtube.com/user/WDRTagesschaum/videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid
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Jul 17, 2013 07:19
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parrhesia posted:I think it's symptomatic for a general uneasiness in German public discourse when dealing with social media and the internet as such. Just look at any political talk show that barely grazes this topic. It is, for the most part, painful to watch. how about Twitternado in reference to the recently released and highly acclaimed Sharknado movie #Neulandgewitter would work as well of course
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Jul 17, 2013 08:25
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Sereri posted:shitstorm is shorter, sounds cooler because it's English parrhesia posted:Kotgewitter The mighty German language always finds a way! However, media is retarded and uses words in retarded ways. Edit: Also, the usage was probably started by some intern at Spiegel Online or something who just really wanted to use shitstorm in a "serious" news situation and others followed. elbkaida fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 11:15
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the TV ads for each of the more or less major parties in the upcoming election (all in German, sorry) Piraten (Pirats) AfD (Alternative für Deutschland, neo conservative far right Anti-EU shithole party) CSU (Bavarias branch of the CDU, Christian conservatives) Linkspartei (The Left) FDP (Neoliberals) Grüne (The Greens) SPD (Wannabe social democrats) CDU (Merkels party, Christian conservatives)
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Aug 29, 2013 11:35
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And here is the Wahl-O-Mat for the election (in German): http://www.wahl-o-mat.de/bundestagswahl2013/ Just tell it what your opinion is on a bunch of topics and it tells you which parties agree with your opinions in which parties don't. You can even read the arguments of each party for every topic.
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Aug 29, 2013 11:58
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And you should definitely check out the statements regarding the individual questions by Die Partei at the end. They are absolutely hilarious.
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Aug 29, 2013 12:06
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Teron D Amun posted:the TV ads for each of the more or less major parties in the upcoming election (all in German, sorry) AFD gets the reward for most Aryan TV spot of this election. Edit: Die Partei is hilarious. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 12:09
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:And here is the Wahl-O-Mat for the election (in German): CDU / Greens, then AFD and Pirates. Turns out I'm a terrible human being and shouldn't be allowed to vote.
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Aug 29, 2013 12:12
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Sereri posted:Welp. 1) Grüne 2) Piraten 3) Die Linke 4) SPD 5) FDP 6) AfD 7) CDU/CSU
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Aug 29, 2013 12:16
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:1) Grüne Almost exactly the same except I have Pirates and Left switched. It's a bit weird that you don't seem to get a chart with all 28 parties, only with the maximum eight you chose in the preceding step.
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Aug 29, 2013 12:32
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It's a strange limitation. I'm pretty sure there is no technical reason for it. But on the other hand, who cares about the small parties? 8 is plenty enough.
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Aug 29, 2013 12:34
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To the Germans here, how accurate is this (very negative) article about the German Greens? http://newleftreview.org/II/81/joachim-jachnow-what-s-become-of-the-german-greens It's quite long but the general argument is that the deep ecologists and eco-socialists who used to be prominent in the party have been made more or less irrelevant by a right-wing faction originally led by Joschka Fischer, and the party nowadays is militantly neoliberal and interventionist ("According to a 2011 opinion poll, no segment of the German population supports military engagement more enthusiastically than the Green electorate").
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Aug 29, 2013 12:38
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:It's a strange limitation. I'm pretty sure there is no technical reason for it. But on the other hand, who cares about the small parties? 8 is plenty enough. It's funny to find out your closest fit is the animal rights party and that the two retiree parties also rank fairly high. 
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Aug 29, 2013 12:45
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:And here is the Wahl-O-Mat for the election (in German): I somehow feel this one is even worse than the ones before. It spares out a lot of important topics and still asks loaded questions to an annoying degree. It's also somewhat pointless when apparently I agree with every party I choose to something between 60 to 50 percent even after setting up important issues. (For the record, it hilariously recommended me to vote for SPD, which I swore to never do again.) Zohar posted:To the Germans here, how accurate is this (very negative) article about the German Greens? http://newleftreview.org/II/81/joachim-jachnow-what-s-become-of-the-german-greens That's a pretty accurate description. The Green party has basically become the party of the established middle-class and capitalized on themes close to that demographic, i.e. "feel good policies that do not affect my social standing or finances". A popular example for this one is Green lobbying for more wind energy and then Greens and their voters being vehement in fighting against any infrastructure for that being build close to their precious Eigenheims.
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Aug 29, 2013 12:49
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I haven't read the article, but I'm very familiar with sentiments like that. The Greens have become less idealist and radical. Some say they are more pragmatic and realistic, others say they sold out and are just paying lip service to their old values. I think the Greens had to pay the price for becoming a part of the government. If you are the smaller partner of a coalition you have to compromise a lot. Some might say it's not worth giving up your ideals for it, others might say every bit of change is worth it even if you can't achieve everything at once. I believe they still have their ideals, but they know how to pick their battles. On the other hand they are still moving in a worrying direction. If they continue on that path much further I will vote for Die Linke or Piraten instead. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 12:50
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Here's another one of these voting thingies, apparently by experts and with a different bent: http://www.parteienavi.de Green SPD Pirate Left all around 44 CDU FDP at 10 and AfD at -10 (lol).
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Aug 29, 2013 13:04
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Grim Up North posted:Here's another one of these voting thingies, apparently by experts and with a different bent: It also has the 2d political spectrum map. Quite nice. Edit: Why are the Greens so strictly against a coalition with the Left party? That really annoys me. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 13:17
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1) Linke 2) Die PARTEI 3) Grüne 4) SPD 5) FDP 6) NPD 7) CDU/CSU 8) AFD My favourite TV ads are still the ones by the APPD. It's too bad they became a joke after the majority of their members started taking themselves too seriously 1998, especially the one by Wolfgang Wendland is pretty great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNNYPf01HDM 2005  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cGIbE5_byk + their apology.
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Aug 29, 2013 13:41
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:It also has the 2d political spectrum map. Quite nice. It's kind of sad, because I do think that having a party left of the spectrum protesting some of the more ingrained values of our rather conservative country is very good in principle, but they need to become more than The Ones Who Are Always Against Everything. I'd love for a Red-Red-Green coalition some day, but it's completely impossible at the moment because die Linken are borderline lunatic with some of their demands, and acting like fussy children in the Bundestag more often than not.
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Aug 29, 2013 13:42
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:It also has the 2d political spectrum map. Quite nice. I would assume absorbing the coalition of East German civil rights activists (the "Bündnis90") makes it hard to go together with the thrice-renamed SED. Plus die Linke is running on a negotiation base not unlike the Republican Party in the US, i.e. unconditional surrender as the bare minimum. I think Die Linke is a good example of what happens if you refuse to compromise on anything and stay true to your values: You remain genuine and people know what you stand for, but you also achieve jack poo poo.
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Aug 29, 2013 13:42
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