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Varjon posted:Is this really doable? I can see not building a barracks in every city, but you kind of have to build temples, monuments, libraries, and universities in order to get the national wonders, and then every city should probably have a granary and a water mill if possible. And if you're going to be using gold/research focus, wouldn't it make sense to get a workshop? And unless you've got something else going on you'll need happiness buildings in each city you found...I'm not seeing where the room is to not build stuff The national wonders frequently aren't worth it in larger wide empires. Granary and water mill aren't desirable if you want to keep a city small. Workshops are really just a building that you build to build other buildings, so that's circular logic (if you don't need many other buildings, you don't need a workshop). Happiness buildings can only provide up to the city's pop, so a small city only needs one or two. So yeah, there's plenty of room not to build stuff if you go wide and have cities that you want to keep small and specialize. Even for a tall empire where you'd theoretically want to build everything, you'll still frequently need a catapult more than a workshop at any given moment. It's not so much about "is this useful" as "is this the most useful thing I can build right now."
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Jul 17, 2013 17:50
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Saltin posted:I would bet the first time you'll see a modest sale on Steam will be the winter sale. The GMG offer is extremely good if it works.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:53
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SlightlyMadman posted:The national wonders frequently aren't worth it in larger wide empires. Granary and water mill aren't desirable if you want to keep a city small. Workshops are really just a building that you build to build other buildings, so that's circular logic (if you don't need many other buildings, you don't need a workshop). Happiness buildings can only provide up to the city's pop, so a small city only needs one or two. So yeah, there's plenty of room not to build stuff if you go wide and have cities that you want to keep small and specialize. Most notably, if you're going full wide you're probably never going to want to build culture buildings beyond a monument and if you're not going wide Piety you probably won't want temples either (shrines are a maybe.) Also your filler cities aren't going to be casting a wide net to catch a bunch of bonus resources so most of the situational resource buildings are off the table (except circuses, because free happiness never hurts.)
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Jul 17, 2013 17:54
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Varjon posted:Is this really doable? I can see not building a barracks in every city, but you kind of have to build temples, monuments, libraries, and universities in order to get the national wonders, and then every city should probably have a granary and a water mill if possible. And if you're going to be using gold/research focus, wouldn't it make sense to get a workshop? And unless you've got something else going on you'll need happiness buildings in each city you found...I'm not seeing where the room is to not build stuff You don't need max food in all of your cities if you are going wide. Granary and water mill are for the good cities; the mediocre/lovely ones should just maximize production or gold and stagnate at a relatively low pop. If you try to grow 8+ cities at once you will lose control of happiness even with good religious picks. Monuments are cheap. Shrines/Temples are usually half price with a piety pick if you are going religious. The only drags are building up the science buildings, though I try to fund those by being a shithead to my neighbors and bullying city states.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:56
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Oh and I didn't think to mention this but obviously don't build gardens in a city that will never be huge, but that should be a loving no-brainer.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:09
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Is it best practice to not go for founding a religion as Indonesia on account of their UB? I'm trying them out for the first time at the moment, and it's hard to push away building a shrine because there are two religious natural wonders within spitting distance of my capital.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:25
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Is it best practice to not go for founding a religion as Indonesia on account of their UB? I'm trying them out for the first time at the moment, and it's hard to push away building a shrine because there are two religious natural wonders within spitting distance of my capital. If you set up a trade route with a city where another religion is heavily entrenched, you will basically always have 1 or 2 followers of that religion in a big city, even if it's your holy city, because of how much religious pressure they eventually provide. It will end up being something like 24 to the holy city's 40 pressure, so it won't ever be enough to overcome your religion, but it should work for Indonesia's purposes. Finding multiple religions to trade with should be easy enough once you get harbours, assuming Jakarta is a coastal city in your game.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:27
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Is it best practice to not go for founding a religion as Indonesia on account of their UB? I'm trying them out for the first time at the moment, and it's hard to push away building a shrine because there are two religious natural wonders within spitting distance of my capital. I'd probably found the religion but not spread it very hard (this would probably be a good opportunity to try an enhancer other than Religious Texts/Itinerant Preachers.)
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Jul 17, 2013 18:28
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^^^ Holy orders for cheaper science spam would be perfect. Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Is it best practice to not go for founding a religion as Indonesia on account of their UB? I'm trying them out for the first time at the moment, and it's hard to push away building a shrine because there are two religious natural wonders within spitting distance of my capital. Assume you meant Polynesia. No reason one of the religions in your city can't be yours. If possible, interfaith dialogue and a religious building or something would be great for Polynesia. Buy up the religious buildings, and then use piety for free sci.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:31
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Assume you meant Polynesia. ...why would you make that assumption  Candi, the Indonesian UB posted:+2 faith
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Jul 17, 2013 18:33
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Muscle Tracer posted:...why would you make that assumption Because I am backwards. 
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Jul 17, 2013 18:34
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Does it make me an rear end in a top hat if I build up a huge stockpile of nukes, then ram through a Nuclear Non-Proliferation proposal in the UN? Because I did. And it made Shaka Afraid status. 
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Jul 17, 2013 18:34
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Gabriel Pope posted:I'd probably found the religion but not spread it very hard (this would probably be a good opportunity to try an enhancer other than Religious Texts/Itinerant Preachers.) Defender of the Faith is always a good one. drat, the balance patch hit the Mac. Good: Iron revealed at bronze working. "Arg:" The nerfs to several founder beliefs. Not just ceremonial burial, but peace loving and pilgrimage too.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:42
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Gabriel Pope posted:Most notably, if you're going full wide you're probably never going to want to build culture buildings beyond a monument I disagree. With the new culure mechanics if you go full wide and don't have tons of culture buildings you get absolutely hosed late game by the culture rear end in a top hat. If you agree with their ideology then I guess its not a problem but if you want to run a wide civ with a diff ideology you are going to need culture sources to counter that assholes tourism.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:49
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My first game against Shaka, not having played as him yet, I figured I couldn't engage his impi and teched past him to rifling, and then I was utterly confused how he has so many rifleman himself and no lancers. Then I checked, and sure enough, impi upgrade into rifleman. So a quick bulb and a beeline later, and I took the fight to the skies. Turns out throwing spears at airplanes doesn't work. He reminds me of Civ 4 Shaka, the best warmonger hands down, but not good at teching. He's apparently pissed so many people off the developers are going to redesign Germany and Japan, because they simply can't compete. Hopefully America gets something else too, their UA lacks any kind of clear focus or ability to leverage. Then again, it could be worse, they might wind up like France.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:53
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Kyrosiris posted:Does it make me an rear end in a top hat if I build up a huge stockpile of nukes, then ram through a Nuclear Non-Proliferation proposal in the UN? It makes you American. 
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Jul 17, 2013 19:00
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I just took out Shaka in my game and holy gently caress his Impis. They were evenly matched against Swordsman, Longswordsman, Musketman, and Rifleman.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:02
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BadLlama posted:I disagree. With the new culure mechanics if you go full wide and don't have tons of culture buildings you get absolutely hosed late game by the culture rear end in a top hat. If you agree with their ideology then I guess its not a problem but if you want to run a wide civ with a diff ideology you are going to need culture sources to counter that assholes tourism. Drop the iron curtain and you can shut down their influence. 
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Jul 17, 2013 19:06
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Just bought this yesterday on summer sale. I was really bummed out by Civ4 and came in not expecting much and HOLY poo poo THIS GAME  I bought the gold upgrade sight unseen based on how much fun I had just in the tutorial. Quick question about the tutorial though. Is that not a proper winnable game? I crushed everyone save for one or two barbarians that eluded me, ran the clock all the way up to 2050 and didn't "win" anything. I still had a good time crushing my one opponent, but it would have been nice to know that "hey this is a tutorial don't bother playing this through once you figured out the basics".
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Jul 17, 2013 19:07
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Am I weird for playing the whole game in the board game view? It's the first thing I do every time I turn it on. I can't even read the map in the normal view.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:11
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Heart Attacks posted:Am I weird for playing the whole game in the board game view? But it's so pretty! You can just turn on the resource overlay w/ Alt+R.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:12
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Heart Attacks posted:Am I weird for playing the whole game in the board game view? I tend to do this during wars because it speeds things up quite a bit, but otherwise, normal view is more fun, and it's easier to see what multiple cities are building at a glance.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:12
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Heart Attacks posted:Am I weird for playing the whole game in the board game view? If I wanted to play a game in that view, I'd play Settlers of Catan.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:14
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I can't have any of the overlays on, I tried but they didn't show me anything I couldn't already see without having glaring icons everywhere.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:16
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thehumandignity posted:I can't really think of anything uniquely American enough to make sense. Maybe a unique Courthouse called a Blacksite that shifts your unhappiness from occupied citizens to other civilizations. Mall - replaces Hospital - +4 food, +1 culture, 2 slots for great works of music, +2 happiness if both slots filled. +25% to great musician generation. It does more than most UBs but it is industrial era so it has a much shorter time to deliver returns.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:16
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Geokinesis posted:I can't have any of the overlays on, I tried but they didn't show me anything I couldn't already see without having glaring icons everywhere. I would do this, get 3/4 of the game and go "gently caress I have no X" and then realize I have 3 of them undeveloped after wasting the effort to go take it from someone else.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:17
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Reveilled posted:Mall - replaces Hospital Sounds about right.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:19
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Reveilled posted:Mall - replaces Hospital - +4 food, +1 culture, 2 slots for great works of music, +2 happiness if both slots filled. +25% to great musician generation. Actually, I'm somewhat okay with this.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:21
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Marketing New Brain posted:He reminds me of Civ 4 Shaka, the best warmonger hands down, but not good at teching. He's apparently pissed so many people off the developers are going to redesign Germany and Japan, because they simply can't compete. Hopefully America gets something else too, their UA lacks any kind of clear focus or ability to leverage. Then again, it could be worse, they might wind up like France. Not calling you out, but I'd love to see where you heard this. A lot of people had their fingers crossed up until the release of BNW that these guys would see a change, but outside of Arabia there wasn't the types of adjustments people were hoping for. Offhand, but has anyone tried Arabia with the new UA? How effective is it?
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Jul 17, 2013 19:22
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Nuclearmonkee posted:I would do this, get 3/4 of the game and go "gently caress I have no X" and then realize I have 3 of them undeveloped after wasting the effort to go take it from someone else. Everytime I get a resource tech I spend the time looking over the map for them so I know who has/could have access to what, also I always make workers improve conquered stuff straight away. 
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Jul 17, 2013 19:22
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Marketing New Brain posted:Hopefully America gets something else too, their UA lacks any kind of clear focus or ability to leverage. Then again, it could be worse, they might wind up like France. America is well designed for aggressive expansion. +1 vision lets them explore territory really well and keep barbarians away, and the cheap tile buying is enormously useful for getting new cities useful quickly and denying other civs territory. Then you use your massive empire for a huge industrial-era push - Minutemen are amazingly strong when combined with wonders like Alhambra or Brandenburg, with eventual backup from legions of B-17 bombers. America is a lot better in practice than it looks on paper, cheap tile buying is really useful, and their unique units come late, but dominate the industrial era on. Minutemen upgrade extremely well.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:27
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Periodiko posted:America is well designed for aggressive expansion. +1 vision lets them explore territory really well and keep barbarians away, and the cheap tile buying is enormously useful for getting new cities useful quickly and denying other civs territory. Then you use your massive empire for a huge industrial-era push - Minutemen are amazingly strong when combined with wonders like Alhambra or Brandenburg, with eventual backup from legions of B-17 bombers. America is a lot better in practice than it looks on paper, cheap tile buying is really useful, and their unique units come late, but dominate the industrial era on. Minutemen upgrade extremely well. Problem is the Shoshone do it way better and for free. If they also had the ability to buy tiles owned by another civ/city state, they would at least have something unique and awesome. As is, they are just shittier Shoshone.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:30
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Problem is the Shoshone do it way better and for free. If they also had the ability to buy tiles owned by another civ/city state, they would at least have something unique and awesome. As is, they are just shittier Shoshone. Pioneer Fort, unique improvement, claims the tile its on as part of your territory. Diplomatic hit as appropriate.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:34
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Might be interesting to have a unique Citadel replacement that claims two tiles out instead of just one.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:35
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SlightlyMadman posted:Might be interesting to have a unique Citadel replacement that claims two tiles out instead of just one. Citadel replacement that doesn't have to be in/adjacent to your borders.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:42
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Fryhtaning posted:If I wanted to play a game in that view, I'd play Settlers of Catan. It gets so you don't even see the code. I just see Zulu, Spaniard, Polynesian...
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Jul 17, 2013 19:44
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Problem is the Shoshone do it way better and for free. If they also had the ability to buy tiles owned by another civ/city state, they would at least have something unique and awesome. As is, they are just shittier Shoshone. Shoshone don't get Minutemen or B-17 Bombers, though. In fact, Comanche Raiders are a terrible unique unit. I do think the Shoshone are better overall because Pathfinders are really, really good, and the defense bonus is legit but it's not that cut and dried. On balance, I think the Americans make a much stronger invasion force because of the aforementioned units and the fact that +1 sight is legitimately useful during invasions.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:45
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Comanche Riders go well with the Shoshone's unique promotion. It's a little-known secret that cavalry are the best defensive units.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:48
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SlightlyMadman posted:Might be interesting to have a unique Citadel replacement that claims two tiles out instead of just one. That would fit England more I think though. Despite america's modern reputation in the scheme of things they are not the world's biggest colonizers.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:48
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Periodiko posted:Shoshone don't get Minutemen or B-17 Bombers, though. In fact, Comanche Raiders are a terrible unique unit. I do think the Shoshone are better overall because Pathfinders are really, really good, and the defense bonus is legit but it's not that cut and dried. On balance, I think the Americans make a much stronger invasion force because of the aforementioned units and the fact that +1 sight is legitimately useful during invasions. Minutemen are good, and work well with the +1 sight, but B-17s are a complete waste. By the time Bombers are out, you're either just mopping up or won't win anyways. RagnarokAngel posted:That would fit England more I think though. Despite america's modern reputation in the scheme of things they are not the world's biggest colonizers. The suggestion of placing them outside of your territory might fit England more (although if you want to go that route, I'd give England some sort of special puppet status like Venice), but military encampments pushing out your borders is a perfect replay of American history. I say ditch the B-17 and tile purchase discounts, and put in the unique 2-ring citadel. SlightlyMadman fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 19:50
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