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sicarius posted:Any suggestions on how you start with this. What do you research and what do you skip? What buildings do you focus on? Do you settle a second city at all, or just throttle out military units? This will of course only work with the AI, but the basic idea is to gently caress with its targeting by pulling aggro to a melee unit. Fight some barbarians and heal him until he's between 90 and 99 HP, then move him in to tank for your ranged units (my promotion path is Rough +20% -> Cover I -> Cover II -> Medic I -> Medic II -> w/e). You'll mostly have this guy Fortify unless he would heal to 100 by doing so, in which case you'll move him. Your loadout and the strength of your force is gonna depend on your target. For cities with no Archer yet, two Archers and one Warrior will suffice (a weapons-upgrade Spearman is optimal), but 3-4 Archers is obviously better if your economy can support it. No Archer + Hill, same story. You might need three to effectively overcome its regen per turn (you will with two Archers, but you'll be doing like 3-5 damage per turn after healing). For a city with an Archer stationed (no hill), you'll need at least four Archers. For a city on a hill with an Archer in it, you'll definitely need five Archers because of its crazy defense. A Spearman isn't completely necessary if you have enough archers, but it's optimal because you'll barely take any damage with Cover II whereas a Cover II Warrior can only tank an Archer/Hill City for about four rounds. Once Composite Bowmen come into play, this won't work any more because the AI knows it can kill your Archers in one turn and will prioritize units it can one-shot over the injured melee unit. You'll need to upgrade to Composites before you can do this any more, and Catapults are right out. I used to be a big fan, but their window of effectiveness is so small that I just refuse to now. Ever since BNW, early warmongering has taken a hit in effectiveness thanks to the percent increase per city for your science prices. I've since started outright annexing cities so I don't feel the tech hit nearly as much since puppets still count towards this increase but only produce 75% of the science a non-puppet city does. Plus you can manually focus growth. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 20:19
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sicarius posted:Any suggestions on how you start with this. What do you research and what do you skip? What buildings do you focus on? Do you settle a second city at all, or just throttle out military units? If you are someone like the huns or the mongols, straight up building a military and invading for more cities can work, though you will become a pariah and get ganged up on so don't plan on stopping until there is no one left. 5ish archers and a single melee unit to capture can take out a city state or poorly defended city. If I'm a civ without monster early UUs I will generally try to get 2 to 3 cities before I start building up for conquest, and if you are playing on deity only the most passive civs will not have some kind of defense that necessitates more units.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:04
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My only complaint about how Immortal plays out right now is that the early-game AI still has way too big of a military way too quickly. Not that they use it or anything, but it makes every game samey when warmongering just isn't an option before comp bows and abusing chokepoints and stuff. Thought I'd have a fun game as Asyria with a pretty good production/gold start, got some lucky population ruins. Swimming in gold, hit bronzeworking and siege towers quite quickly, use the 900 floating gold to rush-buy a barracks and a siege tower and crank out a few more in the following turns. Alright, we've got 2 towers and 4 spearmen all with promotions, another few on their way, let's go take Russia out-- she went full Liberty and expanded 3 times already super early, no way she's got anythi oh poo poo she has a wall of like literally 15 swordsmen, archers and catapults? And she can crank out more at 3x the speed I can make a spearman? That's not happening!
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Jul 19, 2013 21:09
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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This is just flavor, but I noticed that when you gain influential status with another civ that is a different music set from you (the generic music is divided between European/Asian/Africa-Middle East/Americas) then you'll start hearing that kind of music in addition to your own. I choose to believe it reflects immigration.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:13
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TheGame posted:My only complaint about how Immortal plays out right now is that the early-game AI still has way too big of a military way too quickly. Not that they use it or anything, but it makes every game samey when warmongering just isn't an option before comp bows and abusing chokepoints and stuff. Siege towers just make a bunch of Melee units unnecessary, they don't replace comp bows which is what will chew up their army. The towers also turn bows into mini catapults. Warfare before the renaissance is all comp bows or crossbows. You can rush swords against someone you know won't have them (Shaka, maya, India) but Catharine always gets that tech, and early, same with Rome, it's why he builds the colossus/great wall so much. Mind you I wouldn't suggest is vs Shaka so much as note that he straight techs to impi. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 21:23
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MickRaider posted:Has anyone successfully done a tourism victory in under 300 turns? I would be impressed if someone managed this on a decent difficulty. You usually get at least one AI civ that goes culture seriously, and while it's easy to overcome 90% of the AI civs in the game relatively quickly, I have needed Internet every single time to overcome the AI going culture (usually France).
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Jul 19, 2013 21:25
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Is the Honor tree worth going down to the negelect of tradition or liberty? I'm doing it on my Assyria game, emperor difficulty. I'm planning on quick rushing Egypt and Ethiopia with siege towers but was wondering if I would just be better off with liberty.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:37
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Okimin posted:Is the Honor tree worth going down to the negelect of tradition or liberty? I'm doing it on my Assyria game, emperor difficulty. I'm planning on quick rushing Egypt and Ethiopia with siege towers but was wondering if I would just be better off with liberty. I was just talking about this a page or two ago, but no, do not take solely honor, it is a complimentary tree because outside of Military Caste you have no ways of generating happiness or culture. Walls no longer providing happiness killed it as a viable solo strategy imo.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:41
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Qualify that with "unless you're Shaka." I won in the Medieval era with Shaka having solely taken honor. Granted it was a small map, but still.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:44
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I just started a new game as Pocatello on an earth map. I think I'm the only one in the Americas. I've visited the Iroquis, American, Aztec and Mayan start positions, and I've not seen any incan or Brazilian scouts either. This is on a giant 22-civ earth map. My god, it's full of ruins.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:46
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Aight cool. I'm not too far into the honor tree, could I reasonably jump into liberty from turn 60 or should I restart?
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Jul 19, 2013 21:46
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Reveilled posted:I just started a new game as Pocatello on an earth map. I think I'm the only one in the Americas. I've visited the Iroquis, American, Aztec and Mayan start positions, and I've not seen any incan or Brazilian scouts either. This is on a giant 22-civ earth map. Oh god. Civilization takes place in the future. Those ruins are our ruins.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:48
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Okimin posted:Is the Honor tree worth going down to the negelect of tradition or liberty? I'm doing it on my Assyria game, emperor difficulty. I'm planning on quick rushing Egypt and Ethiopia with siege towers but was wondering if I would just be better off with liberty. Honor Opener can be really fantastic to get you through Liberty really fast, but Discipline isn't that great until you start fielding truly large armies of melee units (which you shouldn't early on), Warrior Code gives you a great general which is cool but you'll probably get one soon enough, and ultimately you are going to be really hurting for Meritocracy (Military Caste is NOT a viable replacement, you don't want to have tons of babysitter units to try to counter unhappiness).
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Jul 19, 2013 21:50
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Fojar38 posted:Oh god. Shoshone mythology is going to be seriously hosed up by this. Every ruin they walk into either has an ancient technology, starving scared half-dead survivors of a great cataclysm desperate for rescue, and prophecies of a great man who will bring wisdom from the gods. It's a shame we're not still back in vanilla where archers could upgrade all the way to Gatling Guns from ruins. EDIT: Fukken size seven on turn 31 FUUUUUCK Reveilled fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 21:56
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Dido: We think you are settling new cities too aggressively! *is Venice*
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Jul 19, 2013 21:57
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Reveilled posted:I just started a new game as Pocatello on an earth map. I think I'm the only one in the Americas. I've visited the Iroquis, American, Aztec and Mayan start positions, and I've not seen any incan or Brazilian scouts either. This is on a giant 22-civ earth map. Earth maps don't start you in your starting location, or else Europe would be super crowded. I started roughly in Alabama as India.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:07
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RagnarokAngel posted:Earth maps don't start you in your starting location, or else Europe would be super crowded. I started roughly in Alabama as India. Maps that start you in your civ's historical starting location are probably one of the most common types of thing on the Workshop.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:11
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Tulip posted:Honor Opener can be really fantastic to get you through Liberty really fast, but Discipline isn't that great until you start fielding truly large armies of melee units (which you shouldn't early on), Warrior Code gives you a great general which is cool but you'll probably get one soon enough, and ultimately you are going to be really hurting for Meritocracy (Military Caste is NOT a viable replacement, you don't want to have tons of babysitter units to try to counter unhappiness). I still don't understand the appeal of liberty. Meritocracy is just a slightly different version of Aristocracy, except it makes sure you're broke. Maybe I'm just consistently unlucky to have my secondary luxury resources be 6 to 10 tiles away but it's frequently not worth the money drain on roads until the city is close to big enough to be hitting the Aristocracy bonus anyway. How do you play around not having any money as liberty?
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Jul 19, 2013 22:47
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Fojar38 posted:Civilization takes place in the future. Those ruins are our ruins. Nah, it's just the ruins of <4000BC civilizations. But Vanilla Civ 5 totally was. How else are you supposed to find Future Tech in ruins 
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Jul 19, 2013 22:51
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Bashez posted:I still don't understand the appeal of liberty. Meritocracy is just a slightly different version of Aristocracy, except it makes sure you're broke. Maybe I'm just consistently unlucky to have my secondary luxury resources be 6 to 10 tiles away but it's frequently not worth the money drain on roads until the city is close to big enough to be hitting the Aristocracy bonus anyway. The one good thing about Liberty is that you can use the finisher to get a free Great Prophet and found a religion fairly early without needing to invest in it. Getting the Tithe or Church Property beliefs helps a lot. That said, it's not very good otherwise. I'm making a few tweaks to Meritocracy and Republic so early expansion isn't so hard.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:55
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If my starting location isn't all that great I prefer to go Liberty rather than Tradition. The extra settler, worker and production really helps me spread out and I usually get a Great Engineer off of the finisher to grab a wonder.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:05
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Have I ever mentioned how much I HATE YOU HIAWATHA, time to burn you jerk!
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Jul 19, 2013 23:06
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Liberty is when you're beside a bunch of expansionist AI or you found The Best Petra Spot but it's 8 tiles from your starting location.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:07
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When BNW first dropped I went liberty in a lot of starts because the free settler/worker helped make up for not being able to rush buy them. Now that I've adjusted to how the early game works though I've gone back to Honor opener-->Tradition as my go-to and it seems like that's still superior except in some specific situations.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:23
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Does anyone know how many civilizations can fit comfortably into a huge game? It says 12 but from my personal experience that seems to be too few.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:23
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UberJumper posted:Does anyone know how many civilizations can fit comfortably into a huge game? It says 12 but from my personal experience that seems to be too few. 22 civs, 41 city states. Do it, you know you want to*. *Warning: Computer may turn into a pile of molten goo. Proceed at your own risk.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:27
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I always used to like honor in the base game, mostly with Montezuma. Turned enemies into a great way to get culture. I am finding I mostly just take tradition now though, unless I have a specific game plan in mind for one of the other branches. Skip building the monument. Take tradition, which gives me a bonus to capital culture. Take legalism as my first pick, for free monuments in my first four cities. It saves a good number of hammers when I would rather be building things like archers, settlers, workers, and trade poo poo. Oligarchy saves you a few coins a turn at the start, just when coins are usually at the highest premium. Tradition can be fun with the Egyptians too, for a total of +35% wonder production. Making snatching away those wonders from the AI more doable.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:35
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Even if I plan to settle more than 4 cities I find Tradition better. The early bonuses you get to your capital and free stuff makes it very easy to quickly get your civ up and running and then easier to expand since your cities are well established with large populations.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:45
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Trying to warmonger still. I just end up broke as all hell. I took 1 city and was instantly in the hole, and it just kept getting worse. I intimidated what city states I could to stay afloat, but I just can't understand why my gpt kept going down every turn when nothing new had been built and no city had grown.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:46
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Varjon posted:Trying to warmonger still. I just end up broke as all hell. I took 1 city and was instantly in the hole, and it just kept getting worse. I intimidated what city states I could to stay afloat, but I just can't understand why my gpt kept going down every turn when nothing new had been built and no city had grown. Extra units (including workers)? Also, are you making trade routes and stuff? That's important.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:48
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Trade is absolutely necessary no matter what play style you're planning on. BNW crippled a lot of the natural ways to get gold that you could rely on before, and if you don't trade you're going to end up starving for gold. On the upside, this means that you can effectively wager economic warfare on a civilization, giving you a warmongering option that you can use even if you're not keeping up with the bleeding edge of military technology.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:51
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Brannock posted:Trade is absolutely necessary no matter what play style you're planning on. BNW crippled a lot of the natural ways to get gold that you could rely on before, and if you don't trade you're going to end up starving for gold. Declaring war on Venice so you can plunder their 6 trade routes is always great.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:54
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Liberty is for when you need a swift start, Tradition scales better in the long run. Just because I could, in one of my current multiplayer games I'm playing as Gandhi with Tradition, Fertility Rites, Swords to Plowshares, Hanging Gardens and two cities supplying Delhi with food. It's pretty great.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:54
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Okimin posted:Aight cool. I'm not too far into the honor tree, could I reasonably jump into liberty from turn 60 or should I restart? Shaka, Japan, and a few others benefit from it, but in almost every game I normally open with Tradition => Legalism => Monarchy. With Poland, this sets you up pretty well if you can grab the Great Library early, you start down the Aesthetics tree pretty early.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:56
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Is there anything like the 4 city opener strat but updated for BNW? I'm still sort of new to this game and was wondering if there was a general build order that people tend to start with. The biggest change affecting this seems to be the fact that you cant sell lux resources for lump sums anymore.
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Jul 20, 2013 00:17
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I love city states and they love me. Pretty obscene resources, diplo victory next turn. King done, emperor next.
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Jul 20, 2013 00:43
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I just erased a holy city with a prophet...? It was the last city with it as a majority religion (but not the last city with followers), I dropped a prophet just to be a dick but afterwards the city no longer has the holy city designation. Bug or feature?
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Jul 20, 2013 00:49
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Gyshall posted:Shaka, Japan, and a few others benefit from it, but in almost every game I normally open with Tradition => Legalism => Monarchy. Liberty is still really good in a lot of situations. Getting out settlers early for fast land grabs is very worthwhile even if you aren't going super wide, and the free great person can be a big early game boon. GL rushes are only really viable on King difficulty or lower. It's possible on Emperor if you get very lucky but it's really unlikely, as it's usually gone by turn 45 at the latest. Liberty is just great for getting fast starts, which you really need on the higher difficulties. With that said, I probably wouldn't take Honor first unless you get a culture ruin or two. I'd rather beeline straight for collective rule as you'd probably get that faster unless you're just absolutely swarmed with barbs to kill every turn. Liberty is even pretty fun with Venice. Get your free Merchant of Venice with Optics, get another free one with Collective Rule (replaces the free settler) and get yet another free one for finishing the tree, and you end up with three city state puppets crazy fast.
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Jul 20, 2013 00:53
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gggiiimmmppp posted:I just erased a holy city with a prophet...? It was the last city with it as a majority religion (but not the last city with followers), I dropped a prophet just to be a dick but afterwards the city no longer has the holy city designation. Bug or feature? Feature but sort of neither, as soon as religious pressure or a missionary of the appropriate religion manages to place one follower of the correct religion back in that city it will become the holy city once again.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:18
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I wish swordsmen were actually relevant or had some sort of bonus. No point in them requiring iron when Pikemen are resource-free and do the job just as well. +25% to city attack maybe? I also wish I could "take over" a religion. I wiped out Portugal but took her religion and spread it among all my cities because I didn't invest in religion one bit and I wanted her religion bonuses in the meantime. Portugal is still the founder though, despite them not existing anymore and me owning Lisbon. Although, I figure this is so that a leader gets their religion back when they're liberated from death.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:21
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