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Crazy Ted posted:Random opinion gather: Is it just me, or would the Venice one-city mechanic make it possible to create a pretty good & playable Vatican civ? Recruit city-states with Great Prophets?
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Jul 23, 2013 18:24
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Bro Enlai posted:How do you intend to build the Satrap's Court (Bank) in a classical-era-only game? Yeah I discovered that last night, I was thinking it replaced the market for some reason. So playing as Aztecs with one thing of Honor for culture on a kill and the "Raging Barbarians" turned on is pretty much cheating.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:25
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Speaking of social policies, splitting up Commerce into a money tree and a naval tree made perfect sense to me because they didn't go together, but then I don't understand why Exploration has hidden dig sites as the finisher. It has nothing to do with the rest of the tree and feels just as randomly jammed in there as the old Commerce did. I understand they have to put it SOMEWHERE but wouldn't Aesthetics make more sense from a gameplay standpoint (though not thematically I admit)? As it stands on a pangaea culture game I have to take an entirely useless tree just for the finisher if I want more artifacts.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:34
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Yeah, that's really my biggest qualm about it. The AIs are smart enough to realize that they shouldn't switch to a different ideology than someone who has a lot of influence with them, though, so you can sometimes manipulate them in that way. But very often other civs you've been bros with from start to finish with non-stop declarations of friendships, trade routes, co-op warmongering, and so on will just decide that they'll go order when you go freedom or something else like that. And then the entire past is wiped away and they may not immediately hate your guts but they probably will eventually. Which is exactly what just happened to me in my current game. Here I am, France, going for a cultural victory - so I'm spending most of my production on wonders and archaeologists and tourism and what not and make the rookie mistake of letting my military strength fall behind. But I figure, no big deal, me and the AI have been united in our hatred of Shaka all game long. I have active declarations of friendship, research agreements, open borders and trade deals with every single one of them. But when the industrial age came along and they all started going order, and I decided to be a special snowflake and went freedom, well it was only a matter of time before three of my best buds decided to back stab me on the same turn. I only had one civilization left that I need to get influential with to win the game, but since I had to shift all of my focus to simply surviving I wasn't able to make any progress on that front, and now it looks like one of the others may squeek out a science victory. I've played Civ V for more than 600 hours, but this is the first time I'm seriously considering going nuclear. I love how exciting the late game is now.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:37
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Crazy Ted posted:Random opinion gather: Is it just me, or would the Venice one-city mechanic make it possible to create a pretty good & playable Vatican civ? Yeah I think that it'd be a great civ. It's unique units might be the Swiss Guard (Pikeman replacement that upgrades to Rifleman like the Impi) and a Papal Bishop (Great Prophet replacement that's good at spreading faith in hostile territory). Its unique ability would convert religious ascendance into cultural and diplomatic dominance - the first thought that comes to mind would be an ability to call a Crusade against a civilization that causes a significant diplomatic hit between that civ and other civs/city states with your religion. Like the Venetians, the Vatican could puppet conquered cities but not annex them - but would not have the Venetian capabilities with City-States. Kaal fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 18:39
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thehumandignity posted:Recruit city-states with Great Prophets?
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Jul 23, 2013 18:40
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Crazy Ted posted:Instead of a Missionary you get a Pope? Pop the rare Pope Urban missionary and you get 5 free units. Triple gold for sacking Constantinople.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:00
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So, I want to do a domination win next as it's the only victory condition I haven't managed yet. What do you guys think, Indonesia or England, for gimmick unit upgrades!
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Jul 23, 2013 19:01
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A Tartan Tory posted:So, I want to do a domination win next as it's the only victory condition I haven't managed yet.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:18
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Inca seems like a fun civilization but getting their unique unit right off the start kind of piss me off they just become obsolete after 70 turns. Building farms everywhere seems like you could get some pretty massive cities with the Incas but I do like the Aztecs floating gardens as well, 15% more food and 4 food production from lakes.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:24
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The terrace farms are heavily dependent on luck. But much like a perfect petra city, a perfect terrace farm city will end up a complete monster.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:30
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I think there's a bug with CS and strategic resources. I'm allied to a CS who has a mine on a hill. I research Industrialization, coal is revealed on that CS mine tile. However I am not getting the coal. It's super annoying since it would be my only source of coal, the CS interaction screen even shows that they have the coal under resources but they're not giving it to me. I think I'm gonna try going to war with them and pillage the tile, see if that fixes it. Any other suggestions/fixes?
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Jul 23, 2013 19:32
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A Tartan Tory posted:So, I want to do a domination win next as it's the only victory condition I haven't managed yet. England is pretty awesome. Assyria seems to be the win button for domination these days though.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:33
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Vodos posted:I think there's a bug with CS and strategic resources. I'm allied to a CS who has a mine on a hill. I research Industrialization, coal is revealed on that CS mine tile. However I am not getting the coal. It's super annoying since it would be my only source of coal, the CS interaction screen even shows that they have the coal under resources but they're not giving it to me. I think this happens if the city state doesn't have the tech for coal.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:34
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sdr782 posted:I think this happens if the city state doesn't have the tech for coal.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:37
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sdr782 posted:I think this happens if the city state doesn't have the tech for coal.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:41
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On the subject of strategic resources. How do you guys typically handle a throw away city used to secure a strategic resource you simply have no other way of getting? Do you try to develop the city or just deploy it on the resource then immediately lock its growth and forget about it? Just in a game right now where I badly needed Iron and the only one near my empire is in a poo poo desert and not sure what to do with the city now.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:42
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I started my first game of Brave New World as Denmark, and they started me off on an island, isolated from the other civilizations with only two city-states to keep me company, one of them being the Vatican. Because I'm playing with the Viking mindset, I overran the Vatican with my army, annexed it, and renamed it Burzum City because I am an edgy twelve year old. And because all this was on an island cut off from everyone else, no one knew about the Vatican and I didn't get any penalties for improving its name. I'm thinking next round, I'll roll Shaka, unite the other African civilizations, then destroy Europe. Just to even out all that racism I'm committing right now. That's what I like about Civilization, you can either get into the statistics and micromanage a perfectly oiled machine, or you can roleplay and see where the cards fall (only the cards are nuclear missiles and they fall everywhere I tell them to).
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Jul 23, 2013 19:42
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BadLlama posted:On the subject of strategic resources. How do you guys typically handle a throw away city used to secure a strategic resource you simply have no other way of getting? Do you try to develop the city or just deploy it on the resource then immediately lock its growth and forget about it? Just in a game right now where I badly needed Iron and the only one near my empire is in a poo poo desert and not sure what to do with the city now. I usually buy a university and whatever happiness buildings I want and then get enough pop to get all the specialists I want and feed them.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:44
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BadLlama posted:On the subject of strategic resources. How do you guys typically handle a throw away city used to secure a strategic resource you simply have no other way of getting? Do you try to develop the city or just deploy it on the resource then immediately lock its growth and forget about it? Just in a game right now where I badly needed Iron and the only one near my empire is in a poo poo desert and not sure what to do with the city now. Throw a food trade route there from my largest city twice and develop everything into farms in the vain hope I can at least buy some specialist buildings and recoup some of the happiness losses, if you go freedom this is probably the best thing to do.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:49
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Hannibal Smith posted:Yeah, I run into that problem nearly every game (seriously, I never seem to have coal in my borders). It's kind of annoying, and there's not much you can do beyond waiting the arbitrary number of turns it takes the city state to get the tech they need. This is why I like to fill out Patronage, then maybe I'll get gifted a Merchant of Venice 
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Jul 23, 2013 19:55
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A Tartan Tory posted:Throw a food trade route there from my largest city twice and develop everything into farms in the vain hope I can at least buy some specialist buildings and recoup some of the happiness losses, if you go freedom this is probably the best thing to do. Good advice I'll try that.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:55
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Bro Enlai posted:This is why I like to fill out Patronage, then maybe I'll get gifted a Merchant of Venice I actually got gifted a Merchant of Venice in my Poland game...and used it for a trade route to get 10k gold. 
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Jul 23, 2013 19:59
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In reading this thread I realize I really have no idea what I'm doing or a strategy in mind other than 'I want to try out a culture win' in my first game. I see people talking about getting the National College or Great Library like they are a no-brainer. Is Science required? In this first game I wasn't going to bother with it at all. I don't think I even built a regular library until the cool Archaeologists listed it as a pre-requisite. I'm still leading the number of technologies at turn 380, but I'm only on difficulty 3.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:00
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Science is necessary for pretty much every victory type, so you should always be trying to get your beaker output up. Having high science output means you have a more advanced military, that you can start building critical wonders before anyone else, and it gives you a better chance to unlock ideologies first and get that bonus tenet. The Great Library isn't really necessary and it's difficult to get consistently on most difficulties, so you can safely skip it. You should definitely build the National College as soon as you can though- it's such a big early boost to your science output and will help you get the technologies you need for whatever you're doing faster. If you beeline Philosophy for the National College, you can go back and finish those early techs in 2-6 turns a pop instead of the 10-12 turns it would take early on.
Hulk Krogan fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 20:04
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KingKapalone posted:Is Science required? Yeah its required for everything. If you get out teched their military will be much harder to fight if you go domination. If they go culture they will have better culture generation as well as probably snag the sweet wonders you need to get that victory. If you are going space race they will get making parts before you etc. Basically science needs to be a high priority and getting libraries up asap is a great thing. I personally don't like to use Great Scientist on research early in the game and prefer to have them build their special tile improvement. +8 Science over 400 turns beats getting a tech that probably cost 300 Beakers or something.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:11
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KingKapalone posted:In reading this thread I realize I really have no idea what I'm doing or a strategy in mind other than 'I want to try out a culture win' in my first game. When you're playing in difficulty 3, you can lead in technology by doing whatever, the AI gets big science penalties. But starting on Prince you're going to have to at least build libraries and universities earlier in the game. Usually by turn 380 I've nearly finished the tech tree, for example. Science is useful for every single victory type. If you don't go for any science, you will be beaten to every wonder, have a massively outdated army and get invaded, and will be beaten to all the big tourism producing techs. On difficulty 3 (warlord) you don't have to do that, but doing so will really speed up your victory by a lot and make you want to move up the difficulty ladder. Build libraries early in all of your most populous cities, then don't wait too long to research Philosophy and Education. Philosophy unlocks the National College which requires a library in every one of your cities, and education unlocks universities. National College increases your science output in one city by 50%, while universities increases it by another 33% but can be built in every city and also allows you to assign scientist specialists to boost your science even further. If you aren't going for a science victory you don't have to super emphasize these but trying to get them up in a reasonable time frame will will speed up any type of victory you go for. Great Library is not necessary and beyond a certain difficulty can't even be obtained, really. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 20:12
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Why is Suleiman so lovely? I like playing as him but he's so bad 
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Jul 23, 2013 20:18
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Kikka posted:Why is Suleiman so lovely? I like playing as him but he's so bad Does the map not allow you to have a giant navy? Being able to have a 3x larger navy then anyone else is pretty awesome and lets you take any coastal city in like no more then two turns. I personally like Suleiman a lot. Plus his unique units are pretty solid for holding the ground game mid game.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:24
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Him and Washington didn't pay union dues so they get shafted.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:24
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Thinking back, I think they tweaked Washington once. When Vanilla was first released, I think his land purchase discount was only 25%.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:33
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What I have learned on the step up from King -> Emperor is that you either need to invade your more technologically powerful neighbors using the lower side of the tech tree, or prioritize the top side of the tech tree for all the research improving techs so you can grab everything else. Generally that means Writing -> Philosophy -> Education -> Scientific Theory -> Industrialization (especially if going Order!) -> Plastics for a science focus, rounding to the lower side of the tech tree after the key research buildings are unlocked, usually I keep the key research ones about half an age to an age ahead of the lower part of the tree. Either that or just invade superior tech AI's and steal their buildings without researching them, whatever floats your boat. Also, the higher up in difficulty you go, the harder it is to not be aggressive against the AI, becuase even with all their bonuses you have the advantage in a war because they don't understand range units.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:35
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So it turns out that, on Prince difficulty, if another civ hates you, thinks you're a war monger, blames you for failed proposals to the world congress and is a different ideology than you, it will still vote for whatever you want if you give it at minimum 46 gold per turn. Which sounds steep unless you're a money bag superciv. I was going for a space victory when it shook out that I was the only freedom-lover, with two autocrat civs and the rest going order. I was hit pretty hard by unhappiness when the Songhai, the cultural powerhouse of the game, chose order and tanked my happiness down to -19. I thought I'd have to change ideologies again, but I really wanted to go freedom for the spaceship purchasing power. Plus I had a lot of great person tiles benefiting from the trait that adds +4 to their primary yield. So I blew through my treasury making some emergency happiness purchases and made some really lopsided deals with other civs and clawed my way back up to single digit happiness. Slowly, with a few more wonders and policy purchases I brought myself up to 30-ish happiness and could weather the ideological tide that was now firmly against me and was back on my way to Alpha Centauri when I realized that I was making 500+ gold per turn and I wondered how much gold it took to get all these fascists and commies to vote for my god-loving freedom as the United Nation's preferred ideology. Turns out the exact number is 46 gold. I bribed the civs with the highest number of delegates and was still making 300 gpt. Even as they condemned my proposal my diplomats were making the rounds and lining up the votes. Their votes plus mine made freedom the UN-sanctioned ideology and the change was pretty dramatic. My happiness shot up to the 60s, and everyone else's happiness drops to single digits. Hiawatha in particular is now in double digits unhappiness and suffering a revolution. I'd have played further to see how things went from there but I blasted off into space just as the autocrat and order civs fell into war with each other. Mr. Pumroy fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 20:36
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I wish that there was a step beyond DOF or defensive pacts that has both players in it win if one does or something. A lot of my games has me on a continent with one other civ who never works against me and always had my back and it'd be nice to have the game recognize that our nations were basically one. Not really vassalage (though I wish that'd come back too), but a semi-permanent alliance until one abandons it or something.
RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 20:41
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^^ There is a mod in the Steam Workshop that adds Vassalage back in, I think I might try it out. It really is lame its not in the base game anymore.Mr. Pumroy posted:Ideology Unhappiness The easier way to deal with that is to just go capture the culture powerhouses capitals and then burn their two largest cities to the ground. That should teach them to keep their opinions to themselves.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:42
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RBA Starblade posted:I wish that there was a step beyond DOF or defensive pacts that has both players in it win if one does or something. A lot of my games has me on a continent with one other civ who never works against me and always had my back and it'd be nice to have the game recognize that our nations were basically one. Well, you could annex them. 
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Jul 23, 2013 20:44
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My Moroccan game has gone completely off the rails. After years of "friendship" with the Mongols (i.e. them abusing my open borders to conquer the surrounding city states.) they finally declare war on me. I manage to push them back primarily due to the massive war chest accumulated from selling excess incense and awesome trade routes, and raze the Khan's third city while liberating Hong Kong and Vancouver. Ghengis realizes his error and offers a lucrative peace deal -- and the diplomatic screen still shows him as friendly.  In any case, the world congress convenes and I finally meet the rest of the world: India, Portugal, Poland, Babylon, Sweeden, France. Not long after the congress, Sweeden approaches me and wants to declare war on the Mongols, I agree. In the meantime, little do I know that the loving Mongols have become the underdog darlings of the rest of the world apparently, so after I take the Mongol capital and his 2nd city, leaving him with only a puppeted city state, the rest of the goddamn world denounces me. Even the loving Sweedes are calling me a Warmonger now! I can't sell any excess luxuries because "they are unwilling to give me a fair return," gently caress research agreements or voting with me, and they've banned gold, another luxury I rely on. I'm pretty much a hermit now. (Except Vancouver and Hong Kong) Huge gold income still and a huge standing army so nobody fucks with me and 3 awesome cities. Pretty much my only option is to gently caress this Earth and leave for another planet before Babylon can and before France overwhelms the world with tourism - less likely because Marrakech is a loving machine when it comes to building wonders thanks to Petra. If the other civs vote to embargo me, it's over, I'm already struggling with happiness.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:45
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RBA Starblade posted:I wish that there was a step beyond DOF or defensive pacts that has both players in it win if one does or something. A lot of my games has me on a continent with one other civ who never works against me and always had my back and it'd be nice to have the game recognize that our nations were basically one. Not really vassalage (though I wish that'd come back to), but a semi-permanent alliance until one abandons it or something. Heh, in my Poland game there, it was basically Dido and myself against the world. When I won my victory, they actually voted for me to be world leader, probably because during World War Seven, they got blitzed by fascist Korea and then re-liberated by me. That definitely felt cool.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:45
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So, what do defensive pacts actually do? I've had them before but tend to forget to renew them and I'm not sure what they're good for other than a diplo boost. Do they automatically make you join into wars with each other or something?
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Jul 23, 2013 20:48
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Muscle Tracer posted:So, what do defensive pacts actually do? I've had them before but tend to forget to renew them and I'm not sure what they're good for other than a diplo boost. Do they automatically make you join into wars with each other or something? Yep, that's what it is. As long as it was not a war of aggression, so watch out for those "Join us in a war?" offers since it will invalidate a defensive pact.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:51
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