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You still get the warmonger malus, because you auto declare war on anyone who declares war on whoever you had the pact with. Which is a bit bullshit.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:52
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AngryBooch posted:My Moroccan game has gone completely off the rails. After years of "friendship" with the Mongols (i.e. them abusing my open borders to conquer the surrounding city states.) they finally declare war on me. I manage to push them back primarily due to the massive war chest accumulated from selling excess incense and awesome trade routes, and raze the Khan's third city while liberating Hong Kong and Vancouver. Ghengis realizes his error and offers a lucrative peace deal -- and the diplomatic screen still shows him as friendly. Genghis is a total bro, he goes to war for fun and if you beat him back he thinks it's the greatest thing ever. It's no wonder everyone got all mad at you, he's just the friendliest murder machine ever!
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Jul 23, 2013 20:58
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EightFlyingCars posted:Genghis is a total bro, he goes to war for fun and if you beat him back he thinks it's the greatest thing ever. It's no wonder everyone got all mad at you, he's just the friendliest murder machine ever! Does Genghis like Warmongers? I only ever see people tolerate them in the diplomacy screen but if there are civs that actually like warmongers I want to load a game up only with them and we could just have a 6000 year long brawl with no massive diplomacy implications. Does anyone know if bonuses that add movement speed to your ships also increases the range of your cargo ships? BadLlama fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 21:00
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BadLlama posted:Does Genghis like Warmongers? I only ever see people tolerate them in the diplomacy screen but if there are civs that actually like warmongers I want to load a game up only with them and we could just have a 6000 year long brawl with no massive diplomacy implications. Genghis dislikes warmongers. 
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Jul 23, 2013 21:06
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AngryBooch posted:I'm pretty much a hermit now. (Except Vancouver and Hong Kong) Huge gold income still and a huge standing army so nobody fucks with me and 3 awesome cities. Pretty much my only option is to gently caress this Earth and leave for another planet before Babylon can and before France overwhelms the world with tourism - less likely because Marrakech is a loving machine when it comes to building wonders thanks to Petra. If the other civs vote to embargo me, it's over, I'm already struggling with happiness. Use that sweet sweet cash to buy out all the city state votes and tell the other civs how it's gonna be around here from now on. quote:You still get the warmonger malus, because you auto declare war on anyone who declares war on whoever you had the pact with. Which is a bit bullshit. Yeah. I was immensely annoyed when I found that out. Shaka was bullying the persians non stop, to the point they were crippled. I wanted their luxuries and their votes, so I kept their economy afloat, gave them units, DoF'd, the works. I figured I'd use defensive pacts to make Shaka think twice about starting poo poo with them again (lol). Imagine my surprise when the whole world chain denounces me because I honored my defensive pact against a guy they all hated anyway.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:08
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Everyone dislikes warmongers, some civs do eventually straight up lose that malus on you though. E.G. after 300 turns on marathon Dido stopped hating me for murdering Cathy, whereas Polynesia hated me for the rest of the game.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:08
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Varjon posted:Yeah. I was immensely annoyed when I found that out. Shaka was bullying the persians non stop, to the point they were crippled. I wanted their luxuries and their votes, so I kept their economy afloat, gave them units, DoF'd, the works. I figured I'd use defensive pacts to make Shaka think twice about starting poo poo with them again (lol). Imagine my surprise when the whole world chain denounces me because I honored my defensive pact against a guy they all hated anyway. Yeah, it seems like declaring war is just Bad Idea now, ever, for any reason. Fortunately it's not too hard to provoke them into Pearling one's Harbor.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, it seems like declaring war is just Bad Idea now, ever, for any reason. Fortunately it's not too hard to provoke them into Pearling one's Harbor. Honestly, sometimes it's just easier to say gently caress it and take the hit once you get to ideologies, because your ideological bros will be your ideological bros no matter who you try to kill. It's a bit like Isabella in Civ 4 with religion really, as long as you weren't a heathen you could do anything in her eyes. Oh and if they can't see you? If you are isolated on an island with someone? Take those fuckers out before Astronomy. A Tartan Tory fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 21:11
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So, I was conquesting against Monty and happened across him puppeting Prague; since it was in a very good tactical location for attacking his capital I decided I'd keep it puppeted myself and liberate it once I was done with it, but now that it's technically under my control, I can't liberate it. I've never actually held onto anything like this that I didn't intend to keep for myself; can I really only liberate it when I first march on it? I wanna be friends with the city-states, not have useless puppeted/annexed ones. :c
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Jul 23, 2013 21:28
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If you can figure out some way to keep your happiness afloat domestically (i.e. keep taking cities with unique rares, keep making peace deals that demand rares), you can pretty much tell everybody else to gently caress off. Whenever i get to a situation where i can no longer consistently keep two research agreements going at once forever i typically just say 'gently caress it' and become the British Empire.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:30
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BadLlama posted:The easier way to deal with that is to just go capture the culture powerhouses capitals and then burn their two largest cities to the ground. That should teach them to keep their opinions to themselves. I was all prepared to do that, because yeah, war is my go-to response to someone tourist blasting my cities. But the Songhai were three landlocked cities on the other continent protected by mountains. Wasn't worth it. So I managed to pry a few surplus luxuries from Babylon and Carthage. They had extras and they still hated me so much that they said "nope this deal will never work" as I kept throwing gpt at them until greed finally won. In the end, the greatest force in the world is having so much money you can make anyone do anything.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:36
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My solution to Morocco almost winning the tourism game was to simultaneously nuke all his cities, bribe all the neighboring city states with a tonne of gifted units and let them take everything. It worked pretty well to stop him winning the game.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:43
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Man is it just me or is it way rarer to see science/military victories now? Seems like cultural and diplo victories come way earlier, especially since I'm swimming in gold by the endgame and there's no reason not to buy out as many city states as possible. My last game Bismarck had a ~12% tech lead over me (I was in 2nd) and I still managed to win through diplomacy, even though he was building spaceship parts before I hit the atomic era. It really doesn't help that one player getting that far ahead in science triggers the UN which means that if you have enough diplomats, you're pretty much guaranteed to win before the player can get their spaceship off. I hope they tweak some values in the future, they really need to make it so the AI is waaaay more aggressive about getting city states because right now you can get a diplo win while the AI are sitting on thousands of gold. Ideally I think they should also implement diminishing returns to gold gifts based on how many city state allies you already have, to force players going for diplo wins to actually use the diplo policies and tenets.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:51
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^^ I disable diplomacy because it is broken and is more of a who has more gold to bribe city states victory then anyone else. Or that liberty perk that give 20 influence for gifted units.Heavy Lobster posted:So, I was conquesting against Monty and happened across him puppeting Prague; since it was in a very good tactical location for attacking his capital I decided I'd keep it puppeted myself and liberate it once I was done with it, but now that it's technically under my control, I can't liberate it. I've never actually held onto anything like this that I didn't intend to keep for myself; can I really only liberate it when I first march on it? I wanna be friends with the city-states, not have useless puppeted/annexed ones. :c You can gift the city-state to an AI and they generally automatically liberate it. The City-State will hate you for awhile though.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:52
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Bro Enlai posted:Genghis dislikes warmongers. He's not AS chill about it as people like Monty but overall he's pretty lax. I started one game as Denmark where I rolled all over America and the Netherlands and he apparently thought it was completely awesome.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:55
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Starks posted:Man is it just me or is it way rarer to see science/military victories now? Seems like cultural and diplo victories come way earlier, especially since I'm swimming in gold by the endgame and there's no reason not to buy out as many city states as possible. My second game of Civ 5 I played as Greece because I saw they were the civ focused on city states and I wanted to get accustomed to the mechanics. (First game was English as a random choice just to get my feet wet, my 3rd game now is Morocco to really dive into trade routes). As soon as I hit Patronage the game was won. I was the ally of every single city state on the map. I had so much happiness from shared luxuries and mercantile cities, I had a standing army without needing to waste production on it (and a way to keep other city state allies through gifting excess units), I even had a religion with no faith generation enhancers required from the religious cities. Nobody would declare war on me because they'd have 12+ city states declare war in response. The only issue was a wonder spamming Egypt sharing a continent with a woefully backward Assyrian civ who fell behind because they couldn't steal tech from Egypt apparently. And even then, an embargo on Egypt just destroyed their economy and happiness and they weren't able to recover, especially after they chose Order versus my Greek Freedom.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:18
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Ugh i just completely lost my game to backstabbing. I had been fighting Attila to a standstill for a long time now as Poland, with Montezuma. Attila already devoured Venice, and Russia, leaving just me and Montezuma on the continent. Out of nowhere my long time friend and close ally Montezuma, just does a 180 personality wise and full on invades me. Ugh.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:36
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UberJumper posted:Ugh i just completely lost my game to backstabbing. I had been fighting Attila to a standstill for a long time now as Poland, with Montezuma. Attila already devoured Venice, and Russia, leaving just me and Montezuma on the continent. That's exactly in line with his personality and not really unexpected at all, really. So if it makes you feel better, he was probably planning it for a very long time. When you're getting close to Montezuma, you still need to guard against him. He will definitely backstab. Another prominent backstabber is Austria.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:38
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UberJumper posted:Ugh i just completely lost my game to backstabbing. I had been fighting Attila to a standstill for a long time now as Poland, with Montezuma. Attila already devoured Venice, and Russia, leaving just me and Montezuma on the continent. You where honestly expecting Montezuma, who was Attila before Attila to not stab you in the back the minute after you've finished a long drawn out war campaign? The guy's war screen has him shooting "DIE! DIE! DIE!" Blooming Brilliant fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 22:39
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I played G&K on Emperor difficulty mostly, and when I played Brave New World at first I was getting whomped by the AI at that setting. Most of my strategy involved maximizing rivers and early resource trading to buy a settler, settle near new luxuries, then selling those to snowball early with the extra science and income. With no more gold from the coast or rivers this didn't work at all and I was floundering. I finally adapted, realized how amazing trade routes are, and after dawdling a bit on King I just beat my first game on Emperor (as Venica, diplomatic). Overall I have to say that once again the third expansion has done it for an iteration of Civ. The industrial era on was incredibly boring in G&K, but now between ideologies, diplomats, trade routes, and most significantly the world congress, it's one of the most exciting periods (even if the warfare is still rather stale around this period). The world congress is an amazing addition. It rewards nearly every early investment you make. Becoming the host is hugely important, but mostly it makes Patronage practically a necessity for me. Even on Emperor I was raking in so much cash with 16 trade routes that every single city state was allies with me and I had 13,000 gold to spare. The cultural victory is really fun, but it seems back-loaded to favor the late game. In order to really pursue a cultural victory you not only need Aesthetics and at least a few of the great works wonders, you need the tourism bonuses to be additive. With so many religions it's impossible to make yours dominant over more than 1-2 additional civs unless you manage to find a continent where you can spread yours without resistance, meaning the 25% bonus doesn't occur much. It can also be hard to create trade routes with other civs before refrigeration, making another 25% unreachable until the industrial era (along with 100% from hotels and airports). The industrial era also unlocks every ideologies tourism bonus (freedom likely being the easiest especially for tall empires), and the penalty for differing ideologies is partially offset by a diplomat. If you're winning the cultural race then you might force other players to adopt your ideology anyway (Polynesia did on Emperor in my last game). This late-game tourism focus is compounded by artifacts. My first cultural win on King was as France, and I conquered my continent and had museums and cathedrals everywhere, so I just loaded them with tons of artifacts and never stopped building archaeologists. As a civ with 1-3 cities though, I found I never had enough great artists to fill my buildings, and then suddenly when I discovered archaeology I didn't have enough buildings for my artifacts. It's a frustrating inflection point and adds a kink to the otherwise very fun great work system. Overall the game is insanely fun to play, but still runs at a crawl in late eras on Standard for me. I also think naval combat is still terrible, and the AI is worse at it than they are at land combat (and I saw Genghis Khan bombard a 0 HP city state for 20 turns with a full health pikeman two tiles away fortified). I think they need to adapt a bit of air combat to naval combat and have ships create zones of control so it's not just a game of 'I went first half your fleet is dead'.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:42
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So apparently I can build the wonders that came in that wonders DLC but I do not remember every buying that DLC. Did we get them for free at some point?
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Jul 23, 2013 22:44
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That's exactly in line with his personality and not really unexpected at all, really. When you're getting close to Montezuma, you still need to guard against him. Yeah i kind of realize it was my fault for that happening. Anyways does anyone have a map recommendations? Perfect World 3 seems to be only generating a single map type, and that is one giant continent. Leaving a fairly huge amount of space between you and your neighbors. Adding more AI's seems to cause Perfect World 3 not placing them.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:56
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Is city-flipping tied to total happiness or something? I had a neighbouring civ at 'Revolutionary Wave' for about 40 turns with no consequences. Their total happiness was negative for a while but only dipped to -10 for a turn or two. I ended up winning a cultural victory a few turns before the world leader vote and still never had any cities flip.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:04
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eXXon posted:Is city-flipping tied to total happiness or something? I had a neighbouring civ at 'Revolutionary Wave' for about 40 turns with no consequences. Their total happiness was negative for a while but only dipped to -10 for a turn or two. I ended up winning a cultural victory a few turns before the world leader vote and still never had any cities flip. I don't think Cities flip until Empire happiness is -20 or more.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:06
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So basically cities will never flip on any difficulty harder than King unless you gently caress up your own empire badly. Oh, I see the bit about -20 happiness was at the end of that post on ideologies. Well, that's kind of lame. I hope they start tweaking the balance of some of the new additions in the next few months.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:09
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So uh.... The game's pathfinding did that to my galleass. There's nothing I can do to save it, right? Seems like I have to disband it because the game won't let me end the turn without moving it, but it can't move.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:11
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:So uh.... I hope you don't mind me asking but what map type did you use to generate that. It looks amazing.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:21
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Found an annoying problem with Indonesia's unique ability, if you settle one of your 3 unique resource cities on top of another resource, the existing resource is destroyed. Super annoying, because I really needed this iron on this island in the middle of nowhere, but then I had to reload and go settle 2 cities elsewhere first before I could come back and get it. Also my current game's map is SUPER dumb, I have to sail around the world to get to the other side of my continent  At least until I can get a west coast city setup after the stupid Shoshone rolled up there and declared war on me.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:23
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UberJumper posted:I hope you don't mind me asking but what map type did you use to generate that. It looks amazing. Just regular rear end continents, no special settings. I got lucky, I guess. I'm pretty pleased with the results. I especially like the large off-shoot island Maya started on, but still accessible via early boats to the rest of the continent.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:24
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Any advice on how to best develop the Zulu in the early game? It feels like I need everything.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:25
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Can you tell it to automate/explore?
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Jul 23, 2013 23:28
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I recently got Kaupang to flip on an Emperor game so I sold it back to Harald for a shitload of gold and gpt. Then the same city flipped again twenty turns later, so I sold it for the rest of his gpt and all his luxuries. Then it flipped again another twenty turns later, but he didn't have any gpt and the other civs were only willing to pay like 12 gold + 3 horses for his 14pop city (I guess they don't want the unhappiness hit either). I sold it to Venice for a terrible deal and I won a short time later so I didn't get to see if a different city would finally flip. Kaupang wasn't particularly close to my borders so I don't really know why it kept flipping or why Harald didn't switch ideologies (Washington did after I kicked his rear end in a war.) Has anyone else had similar/different experiences with culture flipping?
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Jul 23, 2013 23:34
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Jedit posted:Any advice on how to best develop the Zulu in the early game? It feels like I need everything. Beeline Pikemen eat nearest Civ, but seriously first policy is going to be either Liberty or Tradition depending on what you want to go for,then open honor get the great general from honors policy,find nearest Civ conquer them. edit: Get barracks as soon as possible.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:39
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SirKibbles posted:Beeline Pikemen eat nearest Civ, but seriously first policy is going to be either Liberty or Tradition depending on what you want to go for,then open honor get the great general from honors policy,find nearest Civ conquer them. Then aim for Impi. Because they are loving amazing. Conquer everyone else with impi and some siege weapons.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:46
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Mysteries of the Assyrian AI
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Jul 23, 2013 23:49
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Alberto Basalm posted:Mysteries of the Assyrian AI Whatever drove him to do this is probably the same thing that drove another AI to get open boarders with me and then waltz a settler right in the center of my empire where my boundaries haven't hit and plop a city right in my grill. That city did not last long.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:58
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dongsbot 9000 posted:I recently got Kaupang to flip on an Emperor game so I sold it back to Harald for a shitload of gold and gpt. Then the same city flipped again twenty turns later, so I sold it for the rest of his gpt and all his luxuries. Then it flipped again another twenty turns later, but he didn't have any gpt and the other civs were only willing to pay like 12 gold + 3 horses for his 14pop city (I guess they don't want the unhappiness hit either). I sold it to Venice for a terrible deal and I won a short time later so I didn't get to see if a different city would finally flip. Kaupang wasn't particularly close to my borders so I don't really know why it kept flipping or why Harald didn't switch ideologies (Washington did after I kicked his rear end in a war.) Has anyone else had similar/different experiences with culture flipping? How did Harald get so unhappy in the first place? Also hilarious that it flipped and he then traded away all of his luxuries to get it back.
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Jul 24, 2013 00:05
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When you try to trade a luxury resource, does it just trade one if you have two? You should only trade them if you have multiples, right? It sounds like there is a lot more war at the higher difficulties. That's just inevitable? Always have to have an army ready? I was asking before about getting denounced whenever I annihilated someone, but I guess that doesn't apply to when the AI does it?
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Jul 24, 2013 00:08
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Any thoughts on how to start Venice off? What should I be researched and what culture path should I take? I'm kinda paralyzed on where to go with it because you can't fix your gently caress ups by just expanding to a better spot. Also it seems like my start is always like 3 tiles off a much much better location.
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Jul 24, 2013 00:15
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If you have two sugar luxuries and you trade one away, you still have one. You can then trade the remaining sugar to another AI. You get 4 happiness per type of luxury, but there's no benefit to having extra copies of the same resource so you should always trade away excess resources. I wouldn't say you should only trade if you have multiples. If your happiness is at like +50 you're only getting golden age points from that and it's often worth it to put your happiness down to +20 for a ton of extra gold. Balancing these things matters a lot more in higher difficulties than lower ones due to really punishing happiness penalties. Yes, war is inevitable in higher difficulties. You will constantly need to either have a good enough army to survive or be playing AI against eachother by paying them to attack one another. Really, though, you don't need a large army to withstand early-game attacks. Nitrousoxide posted:Any thoughts on how to start Venice off? What should I be researched and what culture path should I take? I'm kinda paralyzed on where to go with it because you can't fix your gently caress ups by just expanding to a better spot. Tradition is the obvious choice for Venice culture-wise. Technologically you want big growth and big science, meaning you want a library and national college up quite early. If you're playing below Emperor you can likely safely grab the Great Library and, after researching Calendars, use the free tech to get straight to the national college. This will give you an insurmountable science lead. Otherwise, just get a library up and focus on trade. Remember that Petra (if near desert) and the Colossus are twice as good as normal for you due to giving two extra trade routes. Put excess trade routes from your puppets to Venice to feed it massive amounts of food. A big Venice is a happy Venice.
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Jul 24, 2013 00:21
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title