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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Yeah but that was early on, at this point there's literally no way you're going to convince any 3rd party to spend any amount of extra time and money on a WiiU port, which is going to continue the rapid decline in 3rd party support of even the most bare-bones, outsourced ports. The only way is for Nintendo to supplement or subsidize 3rd party projects ala Platinum or buy up companies like Atlus and build up in-house IPs and pump out software. Again, they can afford it, they have a metric fuckton of money they need to spend.
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Aug 1, 2013 23:04
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Strange Matter posted:That's a fair enough comparison, but it's a little silly nonetheless because it's not like it's the benchmark for an observably trend given that it's happened exactly once, with the Dreamcast itself. Three times. Dreamcast, Jaguar, 3DO. Only console in history a Naughty Dog game failed to help. Strange Matter posted:As Greatn said I was referring to the 32x in particular, but if that's not enough of its own console you can staple the Sega CD to that as well, which together make up enough failed ventures to at least equal one Virtual Boy.
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Aug 1, 2013 23:39
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abagofcheetos posted:Also, we really need to stop comparing the Wii U to the Dreamcast, because the comparison isn't even close. For example, at this point, the Dreamcast had the following games: Totally off topic but: Holy poo poo. I don't remember the DC having so many awesome games by the end of its first year. Pretty insane it still failed.
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Aug 1, 2013 23:56
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Totally off topic but: I remember being turned off by it because of the lack of games brought over during the Saturn era (seriously, they were dicks) and it being kind of pushed as the sports/bro console in commercials.
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Aug 2, 2013 00:02
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Totally off topic but: The Dreamcast is my favorite console, bar none. I wish the Playstation 2 hadn't killed it.
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Aug 2, 2013 00:07
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midwat posted:The Dreamcast is my favorite console, bar none. I wish the Playstation 2 hadn't killed it. To be fair, wasn't PS2 the most successful console ever?
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Aug 2, 2013 00:08
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To be fair, as awesome as the Dreamcast is, fuckin PS2 man. Holy poo poo. I'm still buying games for it, and I still play it often. I'm pretty sure I put more hours into my PS2 now than I have in the 360, PS3, and Wii ever.
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Aug 2, 2013 00:17
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Snix posted:To be fair, as awesome as the Dreamcast is, fuckin PS2 man. Holy poo poo. I'm still buying games for it, and I still play it often. I'm pretty sure I put more hours into my PS2 now than I have in the 360, PS3, and Wii ever. The PS2 had a great run, no one's disputing that. If the WiiU is in a downward spiral of "low sales caused by lack of support caused by low sales," then the PS2 is the textbook example of the opposite. The Dreamcast's run, though, was brief and spectacular - it had basically every team at Sega hitting their creative peaks at the same time. After it, quality Sega games came few and far between.
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Aug 2, 2013 00:46
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I really doubt that the Dreamcast could have supported its quality long-term. In a way, its probably better that it managed to go the way it did. It was Segas last triumphant hurrah in consoles - a flame that burned briefly, but oh so bright. Better that than having a good opening, but having support drop away and being left to stagnate for 5 years before being discontinued.
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Aug 2, 2013 01:32
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Snix posted:To be fair, as awesome as the Dreamcast is, fuckin PS2 man. Holy poo poo. I'm still buying games for it, and I still play it often. I'm pretty sure I put more hours into my PS2 now than I have in the 360, PS3, and Wii ever. The PS2 is probably the best example of what consoles should aspire to. It's library was huge, you can't even make a proper top ten list because every genre had at least 10 really good worthwhile games. I've got a little over 300 games for the system myself because for a good long while a lot of quality games were going for a dollar or so and then you had sales like the Gamestop buy 5 game get 5 free or buy one used PS2 game get 10 free. Now things are getting back up there in price, the entire .hack series will probably run you close to 300-400 bucks. With the X-Box One, Nintendo probably might still have a chance to seize the number 2 spot. But they need games, like shitloads of games coming out. Because Sony seems to be recreating the PS2 with the PS4 and they're getting everyone under the sun to develop for the system. The PS2 was one of the largest launch libraries a system had too and the PS4 is set to rival it if everything stays on target. I'd really like the Wii-U to at least be doing better than the Xbox One. Microsoft blundered which really shook my confidence in the company as far as long term decisions were made. I want to see a 3DS style turnaround for the Wii-U, I still don't get why they can make such good decisions for their handhelds but seem unable to do the same for their consoles. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 02:18
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WendigoJohnson posted:I'd really like the Wii-U to at least be doing better than the Xbox One. Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is very willing to spend money and I'd imagine they'd spend their entire warchest to avoid such an embarrassment.
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Aug 2, 2013 02:35
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WiiU is doomed to compete with the Vita, of all things.
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Aug 2, 2013 02:37
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OatmealRaisin posted:WiiU is doomed to compete with the Vita, of all things. Why do third parties continue to produce expensive looking games for the Vita, by the way? It just seems weird, the sales can't be that much higher.
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Aug 2, 2013 02:59
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greatn posted:Why do third parties continue to produce expensive looking games for the Vita, by the way? It just seems weird, the sales can't be that much higher. They kind of don't. The Vita is suffering a pretty big drought of games. Soul Sacrifice is probably the biggest one and Sony specifically pushed to get that made. Valhalla Knights 3 is a good seller recently but that really isn't big budget. Most of the big budget titles you see for the Vita are ones Sony is helping push/Sony IPs. It's doing better than the Wii U in that it gets PS3 cross-ports and that the PSP and that, like the 3DS, it's pretty welcoming to low-budget titles. However most of the third parties really interested in the Vita are Japanese, likely owing to the PSP's massive popularity in Japan. The best stuff they've gotten lately has been Indie and that is because Sony has engaged in a massive Indie outreach program with the PS4/Vita. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 03:02
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greatn posted:Why do third parties continue to produce expensive looking games for the Vita, by the way? It just seems weird, the sales can't be that much higher. The majority of games lately have been more indie games. Stuff like Hotline Miami, Thomas Was Alone, Limbo, Stealth Inc., and so on.
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Aug 2, 2013 03:04
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Space Racist posted:Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is very willing to spend money and I'd imagine they'd spend their entire warchest to avoid such an embarrassment.
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Aug 2, 2013 03:09
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Totally off topic but:
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Aug 2, 2013 03:13
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OatmealRaisin posted:WiiU is doomed to compete with the Vita, of all things.
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Aug 2, 2013 03:53
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CapnAndy posted:The Dreamcast was an amazing, amazing machine. It was just three years ahead of its time and made by a company that couldn't afford to prop it up long enough for the world to catch up. Crying goddamn shame. Wasn't a part of the DC failing due to the Sony hype machine surrounding the PS2 as well?
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Aug 2, 2013 04:01
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J-Spot posted:I actually feel like the Vita has a better chance of turning its fortunes around than the U does at this point, but Sony doesn't seem interested in bothering. Between it and the PS4 it will offer a more compelling second screen experience than the U, and with PS+ getting free games like Uncharted and Gravity Rush is a hell of a lot better than Nintendo offering up the crappy NES port of Donkey Kong for thirty cents. The funny thing is that the Wii already has a ton of great games on the VC. If they wanted to, they could just put up a handful of the N64 big hitters on the WiiU VC (Zeldas, Mario 64, StarFox, etc.) for sale and it would do pretty well, not to mention give owners something to loving do. But they won't because.... And you see, the reason they're trickling out one virtual console release per week is extremebuff fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 04:03
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J-Spot posted:I actually feel like the Vita has a better chance of turning its fortunes around than the U does at this point, but Sony doesn't seem interested in bothering. Between it and the PS4 it will offer a more compelling second screen experience than the U, and with PS+ getting free games like Uncharted and Gravity Rush is a hell of a lot better than Nintendo offering up the crappy NES port of Donkey Kong for thirty cents. Sony could turn it around if they offered to help localize stuff in the west. (hint hint: Tales Hearts/Innocence) The Wii U looks to have some decent games over the horizon, there aren't a lot of them, but they are there. I can't say the same for the Vita, all I see is Ys.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:07
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CapnAndy posted:The Dreamcast was an amazing, amazing machine. It was just three years ahead of its time and made by a company that couldn't afford to prop it up long enough for the world to catch up. Crying goddamn shame. That year I had the Dreamcast before the PS2 launched was pretty magical. People in my dorm i didn't even know stopped by just to catch a glimpse of Soul Calibur; it was so beyond anything else available at the time. It's too bad the Wii U didn't get a year like that before the PS4 and Xbone came out. At this rate, I wonder if it will ever get a title graphically on par with an Uncharted or The Last of Us.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:08
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Probably not. A self imposed "cartoony only" style will mean that even on hardware as meager as what the WiiU has, they likely won't tap its full potential. Unless they attempt for a "grown up" Zelda like with Twilight Princess again, but if so we still wouldn't see it til 2016.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:27
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DarkSol posted:Wasn't a part of the DC failing due to the Sony hype machine surrounding the PS2 as well? Really, Xbox was basically Dreamcast, except released when people were ready for those ideas and backed by a company with the money to make it stick.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:33
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Fulchrum posted:Probably not. A self imposed "cartoony only" style will mean that even on hardware as meager as what the WiiU has, they likely won't tap its full potential. There is nothing wrong with stylized graphics.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:46
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CapnAndy posted:Yeah, partly. Nothing was gonna win against the PS2. Being up against arguably the greatest console of all time is just hard luck. But I gotta think that if Sega had the cash and the will to keep the Dreamcast in the ring and punching for a few years, it could have smothered the Xbox in its crib and won a hard-fought second place. Oh please. Argue that it could have competed all you want, but absolutely nothing was gonna stop Halo. The game that singlehandedly sold the Xbox wouldn't have been shut down by the Dreamcast. Far more likely it would have just thrown the Gamecube into fourth place, and made it even less relevant than it already was. Syfe posted:There is nothing wrong with stylized graphics. Did I say there was? Please stop putting words into my mouth. The guy asked if they would ever make a game that looks as realistically beautiful as Uncharted 2 or The Last Of Us. If they focus exclusively on stylization, no.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:48
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CapnAndy posted:Really, Xbox was basically Dreamcast, except released when people were ready for those ideas and backed by a company with the money to make it stick. The Xbox really did seem like the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast for a while, with the Shenmue, Jet Set Radio and Panzer Dragoon sequels. Also Peter Moore running both for a time.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:52
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I feel like the thread title should be changed to "Is the Wii U Nintendo's Gamecube (again)?"
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Aug 2, 2013 04:54
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Fulchrum posted:Did I say there was? Please stop putting words into my mouth. Sorry, I mistook your intent. That said, my hope with the Wii U, for whatever it may be, wasn't hyper realistic graphics. I'd hope for more stylized games, and hope that in the coming years, just like with the Wii, that companies might utilize the Wii U to create games on a smaller budget rather than with the bloated budgets games have today. I have a PS4 on preorder and own every console out at the moment, but nothing bothers me more than runaway budgets that do nothing for the games themselves, creating unrealistic sales expectations for games.
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Aug 2, 2013 05:04
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We already have an answer to that. Its called the indie scene.
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Aug 2, 2013 05:08
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Fulchrum posted:We already have an answer to that. Its called the indie scene. I think it alleviates it somewhat, but doesn't solve it completely. It's a step in the right direction, so long as it doesn't create some bizarre class division, which was pretty visible last generation. Indie games can be great, but to some degree we've lost a bit of the middleground, you see indie games and AAA titles, we need to have more variety, the PS2 for instance had a great variety of games that had varying budgets and styles. It was great, right now we have AAA titles, shovelware and indies (with the Wii making up the slack a bit for middleground with games like Last Story and Xenoblade, great games but not technically impressive.) Maybe I'm wrong, but this is how it feels to me. Of course, a lot of the middleground has moved to handhelds, which is bothersome in it's own right.
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Aug 2, 2013 05:13
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What about stuff like The Puppeteer?
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Aug 2, 2013 05:19
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I'm not saying that they don't exist, but that they're getting smaller or axed by companies in favour of safe bet AAA titles (or safe bet phone shovelware/ports). I'm really happy to see Sony doing things like Knack, I think it gives some hope for the gaming industry to expand and relax a little bit from everything needing to be AAA all the time, maybe then we'll actually see more variety in games that has been sorely missing this previous generation.
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Aug 2, 2013 05:22
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CapnAndy posted:Yeah, partly. Nothing was gonna win against the PS2. Being up against arguably the greatest console of all time is just hard luck. But I gotta think that if Sega had the cash and the will to keep the Dreamcast in the ring and punching for a few years, it could have smothered the Xbox in its crib and won a hard-fought second place. But you're looking back at what the PS2 was with the benefit of hindsight. When it debuted, no one "knew" it was going to be the greatest system of all time. Sony and the gaming media hyped the poo poo out of their console and they won the war due to propaganda. Also, it didn't help that the PS2 had a DVD player included right around the time that DVDs were getting huge. If the Dreamcast had a DVD player too, I'm willing to bet it would have had a much stronger fighting chance in the market.
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Aug 2, 2013 05:37
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I don't think a DVD player was going to save the Dreamcast. That console was just very poorly marketed, no one wanted to buy one.
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Aug 2, 2013 05:41
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Bobnumerotres posted:The funny thing is that the Wii already has a ton of great games on the VC. If they wanted to, they could just put up a handful of the N64 big hitters on the WiiU VC (Zeldas, Mario 64, StarFox, etc.) for sale and it would do pretty well, not to mention give owners something to loving do. They could, but I seriously doubt thats going to shift any noticable amount of WiiUs. The idea that Nintendos first party titles shift consoles is a massive exaggeration and has been from the N64 onwards. Nintendo's problem is that they cannot market or give a compelling reason for people who do not care about the handful of franchises they update every generation to buy their consoles. A new Mario/Zelda/Starfox/Smash Bros gets you N64 and Gamecube levels of sales, the Wii was so successful because of it's appeal to a wider audience. Releasing more stuff on the VC is just going to placate the small group of people who bought or would buy a WiiU anyway. Why they don't though is still a complete mystery.
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Aug 2, 2013 06:09
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What I don't get is why there isn't parity between VCs? People obviously still play with the original Wii and Nintendo hasn't shuttered the online service for the Wii. Using Earthbound as an example, it would easily sell more on the Wii because there is a much bigger user base on the Wii than on the WiiU, yet only the dismal number of WiiU owners will get to play it legally outside of buying the original cart and a SNES.
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Aug 2, 2013 06:18
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DarkSol posted:What I don't get is why there isn't parity between VCs? People obviously still play with the original Wii and Nintendo hasn't shuttered the online service for the Wii. Using Earthbound as an example, it would easily sell more on the Wii because there is a much bigger user base on the Wii than on the WiiU, yet only the dismal number of WiiU owners will get to play it legally outside of buying the original cart and a SNES. Why release something desirable for a console that is, not just on it's way out but more or less gone? Besides, the Wii U may have backwards compatibility but it's a pain to boot into (at least I hate doing so.)
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Aug 2, 2013 06:24
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I said come in! posted:I don't think a DVD player was going to save the Dreamcast. That console was just very poorly marketed, no one wanted to buy one. People may not remember this nowadays, but after the ps2 lauched the most common item purchased along with it were dvds. The ps2, like the ps3 was to bluray, was the cheapest player at launch. The main difference being that people actually bought and wanted dvds ofcourse.
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Aug 2, 2013 06:26
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I said come in! posted:I don't think a DVD player was going to save the Dreamcast. That console was just very poorly marketed, no one wanted to buy one. Lets not forget how pitifully easy it was to pirate on the thing. Even still, what I would give if they ported the DC version of Soul Reaver to other platforms.
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Aug 2, 2013 06:36
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