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SlightlyMadman posted:Some people found those modifications to really change the script too much so that it lost some of its original personality. I also had problems with the AI not expanding when running it, but I'm not sure why. I've settled on this script, which is just 4 variables in the settings tweaked to add ocean on the East and West edges of the map so land rarely exists along the seam: How do I use this? e: and is it BNW compatible? Gyshall fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 21:34
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I like to keep up as I can on tourism, early on because it means more culture anyway, and later means I can usually pick any ideology I want without worrying about dissidents. As soon as I have even +1 tourism I'm hitting Civs up to buy open borders for 1-2 gpt. Never give them your open borders unless it's absolutely necessary. The Parthenon can act as a time bomb for revolution once ideologies hit. E:The last full game that I played, me and Haille were autocracy bros, and Haille was going for a culture win. I had at least exotic with everyone, Haille had that or more. Commies and dirty capitalists were burning down their empires in no time! Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 21:35
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You usually need a spy or diplomat in their territory to see it happening, but it's awesome when your rivals have to contend with barbarian soldiers popping out of their own cities and attacking them.
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Aug 6, 2013 21:46
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Silvergun1000 posted:Does anybody have advice for playing Venice? I love the concept of the civ, but I feel like I'm not really playing it right (I'm new to Civ V so that's probably part of it). I just finished a Venice game on King! I think diplomatic victory is the simplest way to go. (If you go for cultural you're going to need to get a lot of wonders to have enough slots going, and I think the civ's strengths obviously play into diplomatic victory.) Your trade routes are your greatest asset, so you want to get them up and running as soon as you possibly can. The city should be on the coast, within reach of enough resources but also with a few hills for hammers or you'll have a hard time getting any wonders up. I'm not used to playing the money game either but what you really need to do is just get money production going and purchase everything you possibly can, meaning Venice should be, as much as possible, only building stuff you can't purchase. National wonders are easy to get, and your best friends (national college, oxford, east india company, ironworks etc). If there aren't any well placed CSs nearby don't be afraid to use your free Optics merchant on just grabbing influence and money to purchase things. I got it at a point where I was starved for gold so I just used it for a trade mission. Also beware of CSs producing jewelry because they lose that luxury when you puppet them with a MOV. I wound up only having two puppets by the end of the game, and ludicrous amounts of money. Happiness should basically never be an issue since you only have a few cities and loads of luxuries from your city state friends. My civics tree was Tradition->Commerce->Patronage and then Freedom (the tenet for influence from trade routes to CSs and the tenet that makes couping easier will make diplo winning even easier). Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 21:48
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You know what needs to be made more fun? Warfare. That poo poo gets boring even nearing anything large scale. You should be able to merge two units into one, gaining the abilities and strength of both. That way you wouldn't have to micromanage a poo poo ton of units just to get stuff done.
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Aug 6, 2013 21:59
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That would be fun -- combine a pracinha and a nuclear missile for instant carnival!
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Aug 6, 2013 22:01
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Kikka posted:You know what needs to be made more fun? Warfare. That poo poo gets boring even nearing anything large scale. or you could play civ 4.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:22
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Silvergun1000 posted:Does anybody have advice for playing Venice? I love the concept of the civ, but I feel like I'm not really playing it right (I'm new to Civ V so that's probably part of it). Send caravans to venice from your puppet cities, so that it grows immensely. Hammer build wonders there, ALL THE WONDERS (take tradition and the wonders pantheon if you feel like it!), and use gold to buy buildings.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:27
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You know, I think I'm done with trying to spread religion. It's just not worth it. I'm not talking about in game mechanics terms, just in terms of personal stress. The AI shits out missionaries and great prophets at such an alarming rate that even with religious texts with almost the entire continent converted, they can just undo a hundred turns of effort in an instant and make you do the stupidest missionary battles imaginable. And managing the missionaries is such a pain in the rear end. You have to move them turn by turn or else they'll inevitably turn around and pathfind into territory they'll suffer attrition in because somebody moved on top of a road 20 tiles away. There are ways to overcome this but it's such a pain in the rear end that I don't ever want to bother with it again. Everything about religious conversions have the least fun implementations possible and it's just a really terrible system all round.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:33
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KoldPT posted:Send caravans to venice from your puppet cities, so that it grows immensely. Hammer build wonders there, ALL THE WONDERS (take tradition and the wonders pantheon if you feel like it!), and use gold to buy buildings. Oh that's a great idea, I never thought of using caravans to do that. Should I be prioritizing city states or other civs with my trade routes? The city states never seem to pay as well, but they also don't benefit rival civs and it might be my imagination, bit it seems like it makes them like me more too.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:49
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City states occasionally get missions where they want you to trade with them, so that's probably what you're seeing. They also will never provide you with science for a trade route, so there's that. Trading with other civs will make them like you more, but it also leaves your trade units exposed in case they decide to get uppity. There's no better start to a war than having your GPT income drop by 75% from the loss of all of your trade routes!
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Aug 6, 2013 22:53
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You know, I think I'm done with trying to spread religion. It's just not worth it. I'm not talking about in game mechanics terms, just in terms of personal stress. The AI shits out missionaries and great prophets at such an alarming rate that even with religious texts with almost the entire continent converted, they can just undo a hundred turns of effort in an instant and make you do the stupidest missionary battles imaginable. And managing the missionaries is such a pain in the rear end. You have to move them turn by turn or else they'll inevitably turn around and pathfind into territory they'll suffer attrition in because somebody moved on top of a road 20 tiles away. There are ways to overcome this but it's such a pain in the rear end that I don't ever want to bother with it again. Everything about religious conversions have the least fun implementations possible and it's just a really terrible system all round. Try playing as Byzantine and grabbing religious texts and itinerant preachers and Borobudur. Then bee-line for printing press. If you can convert the city states around you and your four cities, you can be assured that in the next 100 turns every city will be your religion with zero effort on your part. Sure, they'll try and convert a few cities, but the 150+ pressure that every city has will mean that they'll flip back to you in no time at all. The other alternative is to convince other civs not to spread religion to you, either by asking them after they convert one of your cities or by killing them when they refuse to stop.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:56
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I can't ask them to stop converting other civ's cities. Yeah, playing as Byzantines is kind of religion easy mode, but playing as anyone else (this is as poland) trying to spread religion and stay competitive with the other religious civs is just an exercise in frustration I don't want to do again.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:01
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Verviticus posted:I don't think I've ever been warred on by a civ with a DoF. I wasn't even sure it was possible until I read this thread. SlightlyMadman posted:I tried taking Piety first in my first BNW game and even though I had desert start Morocco with Desert Folklore and Petra, I still ended up being unable to expand due to happiness cap, and could never quite catch up enough to compete. I'd personally only do it again as a second tree, if anything.  later in the game. Tradition is a very strong opener, but it can't even compete if you had to decide between the two.
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 23:02
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quote != edit
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Aug 6, 2013 23:05
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Yeah, I've seen Civs that I had a DoF with declare on me with a 'backstab' diplomatic notification. This has only happened when I had limited my military to one unit in each of my 4 cities and nothing else. I was attempting to see if you could stay friendly and at peace the entire game without building military past the classic era. I found out that even friendly AIs will take advantage of you when they feel they have a large enough military advantage.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:08
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You know, I think I'm done with trying to spread religion. It's just not worth it. I'm not talking about in game mechanics terms, just in terms of personal stress. The AI shits out missionaries and great prophets at such an alarming rate that even with religious texts with almost the entire continent converted, they can just undo a hundred turns of effort in an instant and make you do the stupidest missionary battles imaginable. And managing the missionaries is such a pain in the rear end. You have to move them turn by turn or else they'll inevitably turn around and pathfind into territory they'll suffer attrition in because somebody moved on top of a road 20 tiles away. There are ways to overcome this but it's such a pain in the rear end that I don't ever want to bother with it again. Everything about religious conversions have the least fun implementations possible and it's just a really terrible system all round. Yeah I have to agree. Trying to play the religion game is supremely unfun and unsatisfying. The benefits aren't even really that great, even if you have something like tithe.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:08
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Matrim posted:City states occasionally get missions where they want you to trade with them, so that's probably what you're seeing. They also will never provide you with science for a trade route, so there's that. Trading with other civs will make them like you more, but it also leaves your trade units exposed in case they decide to get uppity. There's no better start to a war than having your GPT income drop by 75% from the loss of all of your trade routes! That's exactly what happened to me in the game I'm currently playing. Had America do one of those 'declare war while friendship pacted' deals (to be fair, Korea warned me, but I figured they were just bitter because America had been beating them up). I think I have two active routes at the moment, which kind of hampered my brilliant 'spam-buy musketman strategy'.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:09
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The White Dragon posted:I see it happen all the time, even between AIs since the expansion. It seems like it's really started to take the location of the victim's land holdings into account now, even disregarding military strength to a certain extent. You can take a happiness religion and then spread it really fast, which will help all of your happiness issues. Ceremonial burials means that missionaries are worth 1 happiness each in the early game. +2 happiness from temples is also a good bet, as you have a bonus to building them and want them anyways with a piety start.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:09
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Silvergun1000 posted:That's exactly what happened to me in the game I'm currently playing. Had America do one of those 'declare war while friendship pacted' deals (to be fair, Korea warned me, but I figured they were just bitter because America had been beating them up). I think I have two active routes at the moment, which kind of hampered my brilliant 'spam-buy musketman strategy'. The AI can't lie to you when they come to you with information about other plotting leaders. It's just not a thing that can happen in the game. Also it should be clarified that trade routes don't actually make the AI like you more. It may make them more reluctant to declare war if the trade routes are worth a lot of money, because they don't want to lose that money. They basically like the money, not you. Their general attitude towards you doesn't get modified at all by trade routes.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:15
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The AI can't lie to you when they come to you with information about other plotting leaders. It's just not a thing that can happen in the game. Yeah, this is true. I meant to say that using the diplomatic screen to establish a trade with someone will give you a diplomatic bonus.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:43
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Investing in religion is not worth the effort, or the hammers it takes to build Borobodur or another religious Wonder. The Founder benefits simply aren't powerful enough to justify the amount of resources you're sinking into it. The bonus to Tourism you get from shared religion is just as easily obtained by allowing an AI religious leader to spread their religion to you. As a bonus the AI will do the work of spreading your religion to other civs to spread your tourism bonuses! Investing in faith, on the other hand... Holy Sites give you quite a bit of Faith and are good candidates for filling out subpar tiles that you won't be able to work properly (desert! tundra!), and the AI generally grabs the buildings for their Follower policy. So just stock up on your Faith and spend it on whatever religious building the AI gives you access to and Great People later on. I never make missionaries or inquisitors anymore, period, and any Great Prophets I get are immediately converted into holy sites.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:54
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Founder beliefs are definitely worth investing in, because often times the only investment required is getting pottery first and building a shrine. Faith from desert tiles can provide you with many thousands of points of faith just by itself. Ancient/Classic wonder production will mean that you can grab the amazing early-game wonders more reliably. 15% growth means an extra 7.5 citizens in a fifty population city by the end of the game. +1 culture from jungle tiles is incredible as either of the jungle civs. I've seen Goddess of the Hunt provide +6 food in a city for the entire game, the equivalent of having a hanging gardens. Religion is worth it, I just think that you guys are bad at religion.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:18
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What civs are best suited to a small empire? The only one I can see is India I think, but I'm very new to this game (recently bought the DLC after playing a bit at release and not enjoying it, boy is it different). I just finished a massive game with 50+ cities as Rome conquering the world, and I want to try the opposite and stay super small, I'm thinking no more than 4 cities due to Tradition's bonuses.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:22
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Matrim posted:15% growth means an extra 7.5 citizens in a fifty population city by the end of the game. The pantheon belief is actually 10%, but yeah. Also if you're not planning on spreading your religion, Faith Healers (+30 hp/turn near cities) makes your cities drat near invulnerable as your units regenerate up to more than half their health every turn. Just need to be careful it doesn't spread to any other civs you might want to conquer at some point.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:24
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CLAM DOWN posted:What civs are best suited to a small empire? The only one I can see is India I think, but I'm very new to this game (recently bought the DLC after playing a bit at release and not enjoying it, boy is it different). Poland, Venice to name a couple. India is, believe it or not, is suited towards a wider empire.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:25
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Matrim posted:Religion is worth it, I just think that you guys are bad at religion. Everything you just listed there is a Pantheon bonus, not religion. Good job typing a whole paragraph laying out your ~superior insight~ when you didn't understand the premise in the first place!
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Aug 7, 2013 00:27
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Matrim posted:Founder beliefs are definitely worth investing in, because often times the only investment required is getting pottery first and building a shrine. Faith from desert tiles can provide you with many thousands of points of faith just by itself. Ancient/Classic wonder production will mean that you can grab the amazing early-game wonders more reliably. 15% growth means an extra 7.5 citizens in a fifty population city by the end of the game. +1 culture from jungle tiles is incredible as either of the jungle civs. I've seen Goddess of the Hunt provide +6 food in a city for the entire game, the equivalent of having a hanging gardens. Pantheon beliefs (what you described above) aren't Founder beliefs (Tithe, etc).
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Aug 7, 2013 00:28
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Ulvirich posted:Poland, Venice to name a couple. India is, believe it or not, is suited towards a wider empire. poo poo, now I'm really confused, I inferred from their bonus that India was good for fewer cities. I read about Venice but being limited to 1 city looks very difficult and possibly not something I want to do until I'm better at the game. What about something like Morocco, with the trade route bonuses?
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Aug 7, 2013 00:30
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Brannock posted:Pantheon beliefs (what you described above) aren't Founder beliefs (Tithe, etc). My point is that you don't get any pantheon bonuses once you let the AI's religion wash over your land. Thus, you don't get a pantheon bonus or a founder bonus for not giving any fucks about religion.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:32
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Chomp8645 posted:Everything you just listed there is a Pantheon bonus, not religion. Good job typing a whole paragraph laying out your ~superior insight~ when you didn't understand the premise in the first place! You don't understand how religion works if this is serious reply.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:32
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CLAM DOWN posted:poo poo, now I'm really confused, I inferred from their bonus that India was good for fewer cities. I read about Venice but being limited to 1 city looks very difficult and possibly not something I want to do until I'm better at the game. Your assumption wasnt really wrong, just the way the math works on India's UA means you can do either. Ethiopia is a really good choice, and the Shoshone can really go either. In both cases you can turtle fairly easily and a larger army will have a hard time taking over.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:37
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Matrim posted:You don't understand how religion works if this is serious reply. His point is that if you don't invest anything into religion then you most likely won't be able to keep your pantheon beliefs since the AI will just convert your cities. You have to at the very least found a religion and then make sure it stays in your cities. That's not a thing that can be guaranteed every game. If you don't have any faith generation, for example, you probably won't even be able to afford inquisitors to keep missionaries at bay.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:40
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CLAM DOWN posted:poo poo, now I'm really confused, I inferred from their bonus that India was good for fewer cities. I read about Venice but being limited to 1 city looks very difficult and possibly not something I want to do until I'm better at the game. Morocco would be fine. Portugal can be good to play tall, since you can go get luxuries you don't have with feitorias. Aztecs can be a good choice, too, since Floating Gardens can really help growth.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:40
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Gyshall posted:How do I use this? Just drop it in your maps folder, and it will show up in the list (you don't even need to load with mods). And yeah, it works fine with BNW.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:41
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The White Dragon posted:I learned yesterday that Liberty seems pretty weak in the beginning of the game, but holy poo poo -5% Unhappiness will give you like 30 I feel like the Liberty tree needs something to reduce the science penalty for having more cities.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:44
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The thing about comparing Tradition vs Liberty happiness bonuses is that it's not even ground because Liberty needs that extra happiness much more due to the incredibly taxing nature of going wide. In the traditional 4-city tall strategy, Monarchy gives you much better happiness than Meritocracy would early-game and to compound that Meritocracy really needs roads to be effective, which creates a lot of tension. Roads are slow to build, Liberty wants to expand explosively. Liberty used to deal with this by going for tons of 3-pop cities that could cancel out their own unhappiness. Nowadays, it wants a ton of large, well-placed cities and can't really deal effectively with the happiness.
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Aug 7, 2013 01:19
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Religions are really useful and powerful if you actually spread them properly. I used to use missionaries to spread to my own cities and then out, but foregoing whatever religious benefits you get from that to early spread to as many civs as you can near you will yield much better results. In my last dozen games I've been getting anywhere from 120-250 gpt from tithe. That's worth a couple missionaries/prophets and rushing Borobodur (which loving owns) The computer seems to tend to try to spread as close to home as possible. If you spread out wide early on you can pretty easily take over enough space with a religion that you rarely have to deal with it being subverted. Verviticus fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 7, 2013 |
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Aug 7, 2013 01:47
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Theodora, the only person who I had good relations with, proposed a ban on salt because she was rivals with Russia and all she had was salt. I ended up conquering Russia a few turns later so then all that salt was mine. I had the votes to block it but I didn't want to take the diplomacy hit to do it so I just decided to abstain and see what happens. I was really happy to see she just didn't vote for her own proposal.
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Aug 7, 2013 01:59
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goatbeard posted:Don't forget that going Tradition also gives you up to -10% unhappiness from Aristocracy in addition to the -50% in your capital from Monarchy. Aristocracy is just a really good policy. (of course the happiness part of it only works in increments of 10 citizens, but even if you're stuck at something awkward like 19 citizens it's still higher than -5% per city). Easy. Great Scientist from the finisher!
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Aug 7, 2013 02:02
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