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S.J. posted:Nah, there was an early and later one, though I don't remember the exact times. Unless they have separate rules for those events, the steamroller document only says that they recommend you use a painted army for Masters, it doesn't require it.
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Aug 20, 2013 17:49
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As much as I love painted games that look rad, I would have thought pure sperg tourneys would be more about who is the best at the game. I say this as someone that doesn't enjoy playing against bare metal armies.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:27
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Khisanth Magus posted:Unless they have separate rules for those events, the steamroller document only says that they recommend you use a painted army for Masters, it doesn't require it. Right, but that's not the point. There are plenty of masters events that require you to have painted figs. The TO of a given masters gets to decide whether or not he wants to do this.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:48
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:As much as I love painted games that look rad, I would have thought pure sperg tourneys would be more about who is the best at the game. I say this as someone that doesn't enjoy playing against bare metal armies. I certainly appreciate painted armies, good or bad, but I just hate doing it  I've been fixing all my old Cryx stuff lately, I think if it's Undead I'm just going to spray paint it green and wash it in darker green.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:51
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:As much as I love painted games that look rad, I would have thought pure sperg tourneys would be more about who is the best at the game. I say this as someone that doesn't enjoy playing against bare metal armies. My completely subjective and irrelevant opinion is that I'm curious as to why anyone devoted enough to the game to reach that level of competitive skill wouldn't have completely painted lists, even at the bare minimum of 'reasonable diversity of color' basecoats with sand/flock bases. Sab669 posted:I certainly appreciate painted armies, good or bad, but I just hate doing it My point exactly. There are plenty of effective shortcuts for those who don't like the painting, but just want something that will look decent on the tabletop. Quick suggestion: Top them off with a quick and dirty drybrush of a lighter green, just to give them a bit of extra depth and 'pop' on the table. Paper Kaiju fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 20, 2013 |
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Aug 20, 2013 19:00
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:As much as I love painted games that look rad, I would have thought pure sperg tourneys would be more about who is the best at the game. I say this as someone that doesn't enjoy playing against bare metal armies. Man I hate guys like that. Especially when the models they use are challenging to assemble as well. Like playing against the metal torso of eGaspy glued flat onto a medium base with gluey spots where his various bits fell off is just the worst.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:33
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Paper Kaiju posted:My completely subjective and irrelevant opinion is that I'm curious as to why anyone devoted enough to the game to reach that level of competitive skill wouldn't have completely painted lists, even at the bare minimum of 'reasonable diversity of color' basecoats with sand/flock bases. THIS. I mean, come the gently caress on. You don't have to have golden demon winning infantry; but some color is necessary. It helps differentiate models from their background (e.g its much easier to see what is what when its painted then when it's a black sprayed heap. In these timed events it could matter). It also drastically improves visibility; they cannot use photo's as advertisement if you just have a bunch of bases with metal glued on them. So painted armies in tournaments = better exposure for the game. Painting encourages new players to take a look at the game much more than unpainted models. Everyone has had someone pick their favorite dragon of the battlefield and admired it before they broke the wings/dropped it on its head/etc, that's generating interest. I don't care if you suck at paining; you painted all your khador guys red and their guns silver and their flesh flesh? Glob of baking soda on the base? Good enough for me; everything is clear what its supposed to be and when I look at the table, it looks like a cool looking battlefield. If you compete at a (high level) tournament, then you've clearly spend enough time learning the game etc to have had the time to at least color in your models. Especially with jacks its easy as gently caress. /rant
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Aug 20, 2013 19:35
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I play with unpainted armies cause I like the game and hate the hobby, eat poo poo nerds.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:39
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I should not have even brought it up. I know you have no reason to listen to me, but if you are going to get into this lovely debate please use the thread on the pp forums about it, I'd rather not have this thread shitted up on a "debate" that always gets wildly out of control with people on both sides being way to passionate about how they view the correct way to play with our little metal and plastic men.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:44
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If you hate painting send me your mans, I will paint them badly and send them back to you. Maybe glue googly eyes to them, it depends how I'm feeling.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:52
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Ashcans posted:Maybe glue googly eyes to them, it depends how I'm feeling. I'd pay extra for that
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Aug 20, 2013 20:02
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gobbledygoat posted:I play with unpainted armies cause I like the game and hate the hobby, eat poo poo nerds. gently caress yeaaahhh (I enjoy painting but also don't give a poo poo)
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Aug 20, 2013 20:06
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I give way less of a poo poo in this game than I did in 40k. Green tide of 300 goddamn sprue-grey ork torsos can eat a dick. Oh sure I'm sure you remember exactly which of your identical goddamn models was in each unit. At that point it's like playing against a guy who's Magic deck is clearly marked by years of bending and it's equally clear he can read the cards from the marks. But he's "all about the gaaaaaaaaaame, man gently caress your sense of proper gameplay" while he's cheating happily away. In summation, I only care insofar as I don't want to waste my timed turn asking what your ugly lumps of grey poo poo are. Make it so I don't have to and we can play happily.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:21
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This debate actually raises a question of mine: I've played with friends a couple of times, some painted, some unpainted. Picked up my own battle box and started painting. I've loved painting, so this isn't a question of "Man, how do I get out of painting?" It's more like, I'm sure my paintjobs look amateurish and lovely, and also, they take me a long time. Question is, how important is painting to the game? If I were to roll with an Army to a store with a lovely paint job...I'm sure people won't be dicks, but, seriously, am I going to get judged? Am I going to think back on this moment with embarrassment?
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Aug 20, 2013 22:04
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Bingarosso posted:This debate actually raises a question of mine: I've played with friends a couple of times, some painted, some unpainted. Picked up my own battle box and started painting. I've loved painting, so this isn't a question of "Man, how do I get out of painting?" It's more like, I'm sure my paintjobs look amateurish and lovely, and also, they take me a long time. For the most part most people are not going to care if your stuff is not painted, or painted well, at your store. There are apparently some people(that I didn't even know existed prior to that thread on the PP board, and the fact they do exist kind of disturbs me) who will refuse to play against someone without a fully painted army, but I personally in all the stores I've played at have never encountered someone like that. The worst that will happen, in my experience at my stores, if you do a pretty lovely paintjob is that people will give you actual helpful criticism of your paint job and give suggestions on how to fix it. I've learned quite a bit from having the other people at the store criticize my work. It really does seem like this is a ymmv thing though. Unless you live in France or Germany. Then your poo poo better be painted, painted well, and preferably an awesome conversion as well. They are kind of nuts over there.
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Aug 20, 2013 22:10
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Bingarosso posted:This debate actually raises a question of mine: I've played with friends a couple of times, some painted, some unpainted. Picked up my own battle box and started painting. I've loved painting, so this isn't a question of "Man, how do I get out of painting?" It's more like, I'm sure my paintjobs look amateurish and lovely, and also, they take me a long time. The nerd social contract confirms that no one will be mean to you about your paintjob in person. In fact, it guarantees that five years from now you'll have hilarious pictures to post online with a header of "look at this hilarious poo poo I did! What was I thinking?" It's a clear winner to paint your models early and often as an investment in future forum gold.
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Aug 20, 2013 22:13
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Painting is super important when people only play with casino dice that fly like god drat shurikens and slice metal limbs and paint jobs apart. Painting is super great for immersion though and fully painted armies look incredible.
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Aug 20, 2013 22:31
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Flipswitch posted:Painting is super important when people only play with casino dice that fly like god drat shurikens and slice metal limbs and paint jobs apart. I have been known to reach in and swat a guy's dice away like serving a drat volleyball if he insists on rolling them at my models repeatedly. There's a whole big table! This game doesn't have scatter die parallax issues!
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Aug 20, 2013 22:44
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Flipswitch posted:Painting is super important when people only play with casino dice that fly like god drat shurikens and slice metal limbs and paint jobs apart. On the (maybe boring) topic of dice: I find it much much slower to calculate results on dice with pips. This is reason enough to never use casino dice, I like to see numbers.
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Aug 20, 2013 23:01
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I used to hate painting and have mountains of unpainted models. Now I like it a lot and 90% of my collection is painted. That said I completely understand why people don't like painting or don't have time to paint or just don't feel good enough about the results to do it. There are enough barriers to entry in this game as it is. Painting shouldn't be mandatory, imo; having a painted army is its own reward and I don't mind playing against bare metal as long as it's all assembled. Frankly, every hour of painting is a game you aren't playing, and lots of us really don't have that many hours. Incidentally I've been painting a loving TON. Fixed every chip on every model and I'm currenty working on base markings and bases for everything, too.
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Aug 20, 2013 23:11
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I have a new set of the PP dice and and old PP pipped dice set. I like pips but the new warmachine dice are so much nicer. Also I won't play without having my army fully painted, but I could care less what I play against. A painted army makes good conversation over the game, even if it's poorly painted. I am the only one at my FLGS with a fully painted army. My paintjobs suck too. So I always chat about painting strats while I'm at my FLGS and it's helped my skills develop.   I hate the LOTF's "horns" so I threw them in my bits box.
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Aug 20, 2013 23:19
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Gay Polymers posted:Huge fan of that thread. Huge.  Flipswitch posted:Painting is super important when people only play with casino dice that fly like god drat shurikens and slice metal limbs and paint jobs apart.
Pierzak fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 20, 2013 23:57
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Pierzak posted:Link? I need some "stupid people" material http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?173171-Painted-or-Unpainted-Armies There's also two whiny threads about how Khador is misunderstood and Cygnar is actually bone-chillingly evil, respectively. I think the Khador one was sampled by the grognards.txt thread.
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Aug 21, 2013 00:06
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Personally I'm way more annoyed about the culture of weirdo dice and crap markers than I am about anything related to painting. Please use dice that have a 6 and a 1 side on them instead of squiggly impossible-to-read runes. I also really hate the dry-erase spell markers - I realise it's totally to your advantage to have black-marker-on-dark-green-plastic illegible squiggles to represent what upkeep's where in a timed situation, but I wish people would have larger and legible markers.
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Aug 21, 2013 00:08
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Just some random pics of games at my place. Trying to actually get back to painting dudes, tired of seeing bare metal and primer.     
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Aug 21, 2013 00:09
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I got into this because I wanted to try painting and continue because of this rule I have for myself that I can only play painted models (has not had the desired effect) and also because I can salve my wounds and think to myself when I lose to a partially-painted opponent that at least my stuff looked arguably better. Arguably.
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Aug 21, 2013 00:11
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evenworse username posted:I got into this because I wanted to try painting and continue because of this rule I have for myself that I can only play painted models (has not had the desired effect) and also because I can salve my wounds and think to myself when I lose to a partially-painted opponent that at least my stuff looked arguably better. I just started, but I set a rule of I need to paint what I have before I buy more stuff. I really wanted to avoid the Warhammer 40k/Fantasy debacle that was like 4 armies totaling who knows how far over 10,000 points with less than 2000 points painted.
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Aug 21, 2013 00:24
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evenworse username posted:I got into this because I wanted to try painting and continue because of this rule I have for myself that I can only play painted models (has not had the desired effect) and also because I can salve my wounds and think to myself when I lose to a partially-painted opponent that at least my stuff looked arguably better. Amen. I have pretty much managed to paint all my warmahordes stuff before playing with it so far, but the unpainted Tau on my shelf from like eleven years ago just stare down and judge me.
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Aug 21, 2013 01:01
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Karnegal posted:I just started, but I set a rule of I need to paint what I have before I buy more stuff. I really wanted to avoid the Warhammer 40k/Fantasy debacle that was like 4 armies totaling who knows how far over 10,000 points with less than 2000 points painted. I mentioned this a few pages ago but at the moment my rule for myself (meaning the rule I've negotiated with my fiancee, I guess!) is the following: When I paint a model/unit, I get its value in points. When I buy a new model, I expend its points cost. And then it's Warlock for Warlock. (I'm trying to grind my unpainted stuff into dust so models I buy at this time, when painted, generate zero points, but that's an easy thing to change if you're not winding down your collection.) Models I receive as gifts or get as/with prizes are "free" and also generate points. In effect, the only way for me to be able to expand past a certain point (locked by my existing, diminishing mountain of unpainted dudes) is to win tournaments and have sympathetic friends at birthdays and Christmas. Or by painting stuff for other people. I currently have 29 points saved up in the bank, 30 points of points-generating stuff unpainted, 25 points of unpainted stuff that will not generate points, and a couple of warcasters/warlocks. Not bad at all when you consider I had at least triple that back in December. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 01:01
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I've probably been the biggest rear end in a top hat about painting in this thread, but I'd never turn down a game with someone or be rude to them because they have unpainted models. I think most of that talk is just internet tough guys who would wilt away if they had to have such a confrontation in real life. Now friends of mine who play unpainted will get trolled to hell and back, but that's out of love. (How's those Cygnar coming, PaintVagrant? <3 ) I profess I can't quite understand how people could play unpainted (let alone with half-assembled or broken models), as to me it's as much about the spectacle and the satisfaction of fielding something painted. But even though this is the internet I can agree to disagree. I recognize I'm not going to change anyone's mind, nor will anyone change mine. Everyone should just play sweet games and have lots of fun with cool bros.  
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Aug 21, 2013 01:18
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Karnegal posted:I just started, but I set a rule of I need to paint what I have before I buy more stuff. I really wanted to avoid the Warhammer 40k/Fantasy debacle that was like 4 armies totaling who knows how far over 10,000 points with less than 2000 points painted. Yeah this is what I *should* have done, because although I always play painted armies, I have a box of shame full of unpainted stuff praying for rescue. I am pretty much going to rip off Sulecrist's idea going forward, except I think I should paint the box of shame first.
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Aug 21, 2013 01:19
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Why did we bring the painting argument here?!?! I already hate having to moderate it on the Privateer boards... The correct answer is: they're your models, do what you want with them. Some formats do require you to paint, so if you don't paint, just accept that you can't play in those formats. Boom. Done.
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Aug 21, 2013 02:02
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evenworse username posted:Yeah this is what I *should* have done, because although I always play painted armies, I have a box of shame full of unpainted stuff praying for rescue. Start it now! I think keeping track of and rewarding yourself for even small improvements will make that box of shame go down a lot faster. And there's nothing better than realizing some new warcaster or unit is coming out in a week and crashing through a couple of trolls or whatever on raw greedy motivation.
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Aug 21, 2013 02:33
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Syntherion is primed, I am hoping to get the rest of my battle box painted by the end of the week. I can't help but laugh at the fact that I took metal wiring, primed it, and am now going to paint it its original colour.
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Aug 21, 2013 02:42
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Having played 40k for about 15 years now, I think the time has come to branch out into a game that doesn't require its own seatbelt when packed into my car. I've watched some random Warmachine youtubes and poked through the rules, and it seems pretty great. Where does one begin? Are some of the factions easier to start with than others, or should I just pick the one that I enjoy the look of the best and start rolling? I've got to find a local group that plays as well, hopefully get a trial game in.
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Aug 21, 2013 03:05
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Zhent posted:Having played 40k for about 15 years now, I think the time has come to branch out into a game that doesn't require its own seatbelt when packed into my car. I've watched some random Warmachine youtubes and poked through the rules, and it seems pretty great. Where does one begin? Are some of the factions easier to start with than others, or should I just pick the one that I enjoy the look of the best and start rolling? I've got to find a local group that plays as well, hopefully get a trial game in. The factions are reasonably balanced so really just pick the ones you think look the most awesome or that you like the background for, or even poke around a bit (I think Battle College, used carefully, is great for this) to find a faction you think has fun sounding rules. Then if you can find somewhere that is running a Journeyman League I think that's a great way to start with a small force (one of the prepackaged battleboxes) and gradually build up. Sulecrist posted:Start it now! I think keeping track of and rewarding yourself for even small improvements will make that box of shame go down a lot faster. And there's nothing better than realizing some new warcaster or unit is coming out in a week and crashing through a couple of trolls or whatever on raw greedy motivation. Yeah, I don't want to miss out on the Riphorn and the Trample Bird.
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Aug 21, 2013 03:21
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Zhent posted:Having played 40k for about 15 years now, I think the time has come to branch out into a game that doesn't require its own seatbelt when packed into my car. I've watched some random Warmachine youtubes and poked through the rules, and it seems pretty great. Where does one begin? Are some of the factions easier to start with than others, or should I just pick the one that I enjoy the look of the best and start rolling? I've got to find a local group that plays as well, hopefully get a trial game in. The factions are all pretty well balanced, and while they do have their own distinct overall feels, you can generally put together the kind of list you want, from a melee slugfest to a combined arms approach to a gunline. There are some power gradients within factions as far as warcasters/warlocks, warjacks/warbeasts, units, and solos go, but everything's really quite playable. I would highly recommend you decide which faction you like the aesthetic of best, and ask us if you can do a playstyle you prefer with that faction, and how to start with that faction. Also be advised that while warjacks and warbeasts are probably the most iconic part, Hordes armies have an easier time of running multiple warbeasts than Warmachine armies do of running multiple 'jacks. Not that it's impossible, but something to take under advisement.
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Aug 21, 2013 03:24
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Won two more games with Syntherion tonight, making me 4-0 with him so far. After playing Retribution for several years, it is a very strange feeling to run 6 jacks (not including the Corollary) at peak efficiency and still having more focus than I know what to do with.
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Aug 21, 2013 03:54
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Zhent posted:Having played 40k for about 15 years now, I think the time has come to branch out into a game that doesn't require its own seatbelt when packed into my car. I've watched some random Warmachine youtubes and poked through the rules, and it seems pretty great. Where does one begin? Are some of the factions easier to start with than others, or should I just pick the one that I enjoy the look of the best and start rolling? I've got to find a local group that plays as well, hopefully get a trial game in. The biggest difference between starting 40k and starting this is that in 40k jumping in the deep end as far as size of games go (1000, 1500, maybe even 2000) at the very beginning is both standard and encouraged, since you can't take the cool stuff at 500 and it's much easier in 40k to learn, even on like ten things at once, by doing. Here, because each individual model has so much synergistic potential (even if its special rules don't seem that complicated by themselves) you really want to start small and steady. Don't buy a 50-point army to start out even if it "feels" like only 750 points or whatever of 40k. If you have a pretty free supply of disposable income (I'm guessing you do, since you played 40k for about fifteen years  ) and you're confident you like the look and feel of a faction at least enough to keep it for painting's sake, you can theoretically get as much as 2-3 warlocks/warcasters and maybe 25-35 points of very flexible core models. By core I don't mean basic, I mean relatively easy to use and presenting high utility in a variety of different kinds of lists. Ask us for help with this! A good rule of thumb is that you can make absolutely anything work, but you can't necessarily make any two given things work together. Diving in this way shouldn't cost more than $150 (if you're spending more than $150, you're doing it wrong, or at least shopping at the wrong place) and don't buy a single additional thing until you've played at least 5-10 small games (battlebox, 15-point, or 25-point). And don't feel obligated to actually spend $150 and get all of the stuff I mentioned. I started this game with a 25-point army comprised of fewer than 10 models, most of them these little pointy rock things, and it cost well under $100.If you're at the other end of the spectrum, and you want to start slow and cautiously, just get a Battlebox (I can't remember the exact lingo but I mean the starter set things). Then play ten games with its contents and nothing else. And have fun! This is a wonderful game with wonderful people making, selling, playing, and sharing it, and I love it very much. EDIT: One other thing. The sooner you hear this, the better. You're going to lose a lot. Depending on whether you're playing other total newbies or people with even slightly more experience than you, this will probably range from 50-100% of your first 20 games. Do not lose heart. Do not blame your models. Do not blame luck. It is your fault, but you will get better. If you can endure, and play on, and take risks but recognize that you're taking risks, and learn from a good opponent and smile through an unsporting one, by the time you get to game #20 you'll be better equipped than a huge percentage of the player base. And you'll start winning. Not every game, but here and there. And then a bit more. You'll start to realize what people mean when they say this is a deep game. You'll start to realize that it doesn't actually matter if you win or lose--that the fun happens in the late game and it doesn't matter which side you're on. And that's when this whole thing cranks to eleven. That's when you'll really start enjoying yourself. And that also happens to be when you'll mysteriously stop losing quite so frequently. Please, for your own sake, trust me. It's worth the wait. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 04:04
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I feel you should always aim to have your stuff painted, because unpainted Gorman De Wulf hanging out with an unpainted WG Deathstar is really loving hard to pick out and I feel like it's fair play to have poo poo easy to identify
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Aug 21, 2013 04:53
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