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konsum posted:My favourite TV ads are still the ones by the APPD. It's too bad they became a joke after the majority of their members started taking themselves too seriously "Meine Stime für den Müll! My vote for the garbage can!" Heh.
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Aug 29, 2013 13:48
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It should, however, be noted that both the SPD and the Greens are fine cooperating with the Linke on the state level if it suits their interests. For what it's worth, the SPD/Greens in NRW even worked with the Linke under a non-coalition agreement that left the SPD/Greens as an administration without a majority in the state parliament. And I do not really buy that is has anything to do with former SED personnel, because the SPD absorbed large sways of SED remnants as well. If personnel is an issue, it's due to the WASG merger weakening the political position of the SPD and therefore the Greens back in 2007.
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Aug 29, 2013 13:49
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Randler posted:It should, however, be noted that both the SPD and the Greens are fine cooperating with the Linke on the state level if it suits their interests. For what it's worth, the SPD/Greens in NRW even worked with the Linke under a non-coalition agreement that left the SPD/Greens as an administration without a majority in the state parliament. And I do not really buy that is has anything to do with former SED personnel, because the SPD absorbed large sways of SED remnants as well. If personnel is an issue, it's due to the WASG merger weakening the political position of the SPD and therefore the Greens back in 2007.
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Aug 29, 2013 14:10
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Zohar posted:To the Germans here, how accurate is this (very negative) article about the German Greens? http://newleftreview.org/II/81/joachim-jachnow-what-s-become-of-the-german-greens No, but seriously, there is a fairly big gap between what the Greens claim to stand for in their party program (which is still fairly left-wing) and their actual policies when in power. But apart from the Greens gobbling up the concept of humanitarian interventions and obviously pandering to their (upper middle class) clientele, they still have their idealistic moments, especially when it comes to national policies. The conservative wing is getting stronger though. Still, it's nowhere near as bad as the SPD. Simply Simon posted:Everybody is against a coalition with die Linken. I think if any party would come out and say "yeah we'd consider it", they'd be decried as the worst opportunists. The problem is, I think, that die Linken make themselves almost deliberately un-coalitable by always being against everything, and having sometimes completely ludicrous positions (aka too radically left for anyone in Realpolitik to seriously consider), which you still would have to address and compromise with when leading coalition debates.
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Aug 29, 2013 14:23
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Randler posted:It should, however, be noted that both the SPD and the Greens are fine cooperating with the Linke on the state level if it suits their interests. For what it's worth, the SPD/Greens in NRW even worked with the Linke under a non-coalition agreement that left the SPD/Greens as an administration without a majority in the state parliament. And I do not really buy that is has anything to do with former SED personnel, because the SPD absorbed large sways of SED remnants as well. If personnel is an issue, it's due to the WASG merger weakening the political position of the SPD and therefore the Greens back in 2007. Oh, absolutely. As long as Lafontaine has anything to say in Die Linke there won't be a coalition with the SPD, and that feeling is very much mutual.
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Aug 29, 2013 14:26
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Well, at least now I can use those things to get a few positions out of the AfD, their official program has been utterly useless in that regard. And as it turns out they're pretty much the FDP without even their somewhat reedeming social stances. They're all "free market über alles" until it comes to things like reproductive rights or gay adoptions.
Perestroika fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 15:03
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Huh... Not really knowing much about the parties other than the very basics, I don't know if I should be surprised by the result: Pirate Party of Germany 81% GREEN 80.2% The Left 77.6% SPD 70.7% Animal Protection Party 64.7% FDP 54.3% BP 51.7% CDU / CSU 42.2%  How did I qualify as a leftist by German standards?
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Aug 29, 2013 16:55
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My Q-Face posted:How did I qualify as a leftist by German standards? You're probably a secret communist sleeper agent.  Compared to other countries current day Germany has very few polarizing issues. The big parties partly agree on many policies with only minor deviations. This means that a lot of the statements used in political questionaires such as this one will score you points for multiple parties regardless of your answer. Additionally, some statements in the questionaires are vague enough to be practically meaningless. Other statements might score you points for one political direction, despite your reason for (dis)agreeing with the statement being fundamentally different from the party's reasoning, e.g. pragmatism regarding European matters instead of actual preference for a wider and deeper union. Furthermore, the questionaires do not take into account whether parties make actually good on their alleged promises and asks few enough questions, that you might have just gotten an outlier that would not reflect your actual political leanings. (Also, the Pirate Party basically promises everything to everyone. I got them at a ridiculously high percentage as well.)
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Aug 29, 2013 21:26
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Case in point, Abgeordnetenwatch.de has a thing where you can compare statements with your direct candidates, and they're along the lines of "the police should have access to your saved internet connection data." Big surprise, every candidate replies negatively to that because they know replying positively would look bad, but when you read their responses they still cover everything from "only to help investigations in a crime" to "that shouldn't be saved in the first place." Works more or less the same with the other statements they had.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:05
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Randler posted:You're probably a secret communist sleeper agent. Yeah, while I am not really happy with our conservative government, at least we have the FDP who can prevent the worst civil liberty violations by the CDU (plus Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger is a genuinely great person). Our government is certainly a center right government, but still firmly rooted in the center. Compared to the Republicans, who seem to sprint towards the far right at an amazing pace, with the Democrats for some reason slowly following behind them. That poo poo is scary. The Greens have the problem that their main shtick was co-opted by all other parties. Even the FDP pays lip service to environmentalism. The one thing where I disagree on environmental protection, nuclear power (replacing the CO2 less nuclear pwer with more coal/oil/gas power plants while we are dangerously close to a tipping point with global warming? That's insane!), all the other parties took on the Green's position.
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Aug 30, 2013 08:38
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Torrannor posted:Yeah, while I am not really happy with our conservative government, at least we have the FDP who can prevent the worst civil liberty violations by the CDU (plus Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger is a genuinely great person). Our government is certainly a center right government, but still firmly rooted in the center. Compared to the Republicans, who seem to sprint towards the far right at an amazing pace, with the Democrats for some reason slowly following behind them. That poo poo is scary. Never thought I'd read someone wirte "At least we have the FDP". I agree on Leutheuser-Schnarrenberger, though. As for the whole nuclear question, as someone pointed out, the problem is a bit more complicated. Our nuclear plants are loving old. The newest was put online in the early 80ies. Given that most companies expect a lifetime for NPPs of 30 years and plan the write off accordingly, they are all printing money by now. There is no doubt that a modern nuclear power plant is fairly safe, but German plants aren't modern by any stretch of imagination. And no one, anywhere, is even quietly suggesting that we should start building new plants. That would be a polarizing issue the size this country hasn't seen in a while.
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Aug 30, 2013 10:39
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Unfortunately it wouldn't be polarizing at all. Almost everyone would quickly denounce it.
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Aug 30, 2013 11:02
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We can't build anything anywhere in Germany. Germany is full of NIMBYs.
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Aug 30, 2013 11:05
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ArchangeI posted:Never thought I'd read someone wirte "At least we have the FDP". I agree on Leutheuser-Schnarrenberger, though. I'm guessing you're referring to this post. Sereri posted:The problem here is that we don't have any (actually) modern nuclear plants in this country, the newest started construction in 1982. Thats 30 years. Hell, some are from the mid-70s. And if the corporations would have their way even the oldest ones would be still running because they're paid off and are making money the longer they run. And yes, nuclear plants create much less CO2. But guess what they produce, nuclear waste. And guess who's paying for it's disposal. And do you know what happens when the AKW has reached the end of it's lifetime? Regarding shutting down nuclear plants "But they produce less CO2" is really a non-issue. By the way, the Green party's plan is 100% renewable energy, gas/coal/oil is transitional at best for them.
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Aug 30, 2013 11:18
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Perestroika posted:Well, at least now I can use those things to get a few positions out of the AfD, their official program has been utterly useless in that regard. And as it turns out they're pretty much the FDP without even their somewhat reedeming social stances. They're all "free market über alles" until it comes to things like reproductive rights or gay adoptions. its certainly something when even the spot from the Zeugen Seehofers "Ah wählts mi, joa weil äh Ih kann alles!" is better than what the AfD put on show there FDP? They seem more like they are extreme right ex-CDU who are disappointed that their party moved "too far to the left" 
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Aug 30, 2013 11:43
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:We can't build anything anywhere in Germany. Germany is full of NIMBYs. I like to joke that the best way to solve the nuclear waste problem would be to host a congress of all the Bürgerbewegungen against a waste disposal site in their area, then close the doors and let them work it out. Come back the next day and clean up the bodies.
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Aug 30, 2013 12:36
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Yeah, thank god for the F—http://www.fdp-calw.de/StellHomoEhe.htm
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Aug 30, 2013 13:37
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Torrannor posted:at least we have the FDP who can prevent the worst civil liberty violations by the CDU quote:(plus Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger is a genuinely great person)
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Aug 30, 2013 14:02
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wayfinder posted:Yeah, thank god for the F—http://www.fdp-calw.de/StellHomoEhe.htm Verily, the Mainlinie is our very own Mason-Dixon line. 
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Aug 30, 2013 14:25
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And here I thought we didn't have any insane conservatives like the GOP. Turns out they are all in the liberal party! Seriously, how can that guy write that when the man who led the FDP to one of its best performances in the last twenty years is gay and married to his partner (his other abilities and successes, or lack thereof, notwithstanding)?
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Aug 30, 2013 14:48
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The good thing is that nobody elects FDP anymore because they keep making obviously bad decisions, and I am so glad so many people are finally seeing through the bullshit. It is kind of sad, though; used to be that the FDP was a coalition partner that was perfectly workable with, when "liberal" actually meant something besides "economy yo". I'd like for them to become their old self in Schmidt's time again, because I believe that if every party is "basically okay", that'd be best. Don't want to have guys who are actually getting elected because different people, different opinions, where I think they are the worst thing imaginable.
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Aug 30, 2013 14:54
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wayfinder posted:Yeah, thank god for the F—http://www.fdp-calw.de/StellHomoEhe.htm drat, that's the kind of poo poo I expect from the CSU, not from the party whose own (former) chairman is out and proud. What the gently caress is happening with the FPD?
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Aug 30, 2013 15:49
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DominoDancing posted:drat, that's the kind of poo poo I expect from the CSU, not from the party whose own (former) chairman is out and proud. What the gently caress is happening with the FPD? That's probably the FDP's own Sarrazin. Every party has one.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:31
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DominoDancing posted:drat, that's the kind of poo poo I expect from the CSU, not from the party whose own (former) chairman is out and proud. What the gently caress is happening with the FPD? Is happening? The FDP has a history of being open to right-wing shitheads, right up to after WW2 when it was almost taken over by actual fascists. And even after they stopped that, it harbored a fuckton of former NSDAP members.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:33
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parrhesia posted:And even after they stopped that, it harbored a fuckton of former NSDAP members. It's also only one backbencher with stupid opinions that go against the party platform. Every party has a few of them.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:39
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Yeah, I know. I think the FDP had a higher percentage than other major parties in Germany after war, but I can't find a source right now, so v vAnd I'm aware that every party has idiots, and this dude isn't even relevant. The FDP had more embarrassing relevant people before ('sup Mölle), but again, that makes them hardly unique as well. My main point was simply, that this isn't a new thing for the FDP. It has always harbored a fairly sizable contingent of very conservative people, even if they always were (and are) a minority in the party.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:45
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frankenfreak posted:Seriously, get that out of your head. Every other party would do the same (except the SPD w/r/t surveillance). Unlike the FDP, the other parties don't come packaged with the FDP's economic policies. The bold part is the key here. The only other possible government would have been CDU/SPD, so I am thankful that the FDP is there to stop some of that poo poo. And Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger being the justice minister is our best defense. I suspect we are heading to another grand coalition, and I don't like it at all. At least those fuckers from the CSU will lose influence if the coalition's majority in the Bundestag is big enough.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:12
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A CDU/SPD coalition will hurt the SPD. They'll still do it though.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:20
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You gotta wonder what general state a country is in if the best government it can realistically hope for is the one that occasionally fails to do the stupidest poo poo imaginable. CDU upper echelons have to be secretly hoping that the FDP doesn't make it because then they can form a coalition with the SPD who have proven themselves time and time again to be complete pushovers who believe that saying "this is a really bad law and we don't like it at all" really clearly but supporting it unanimously carries exactly the same weight as voting against the drat thing.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:22
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My Lovely Horse posted:You gotta wonder what general state a country is in if the best government it can realistically hope for is the one that occasionally fails to do the stupidest poo poo imaginable. I don't know. Having the FDP account for 15% in the Bundestag but sit a 3% in the polls means that CDU/FDP have a very solid majority, while the CDU can be absolutely certain that the FDP will always fold rather than letting the government fail and risk new elections (which would see them crushed).
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Aug 30, 2013 18:32
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Is the FDP going to get any seats in this election? I remember a bunch of state parliaments lost all the FDP seats.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:39
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Badger of Basra posted:Is the FDP going to get any seats in this election? I remember a bunch of state parliaments lost all the FDP seats. According to polls they'll make it: http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
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Aug 30, 2013 18:42
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My Lovely Horse posted:You gotta wonder what general state a country is in if the best government it can realistically hope for is the one that occasionally fails to do the stupidest poo poo imaginable. I'm sorry, did you see US political news lately? We are very fortunate that we have the parties we have. I would take a decade of CDU rule over what is going on in the US any time. Voter suppression, slashing of welfare for the most needy, a cool "flat tax" plan that would lower taxes on the rich and raise them on the poor, the health-care debacle etc. What did we have? Betreuungsgeld? I staunchly oppose it, but at worst it is an ineffectual instrument that will give a bit more money to wealthy married women to stay at home. Failure of the CSU to see reason on gay marriage? It is only a matter of time, the first time there is a government without the CDU we will have gay marriage in Germany. And no matter what the FDP may want, we won't privatize our health care system or our pensions.
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Aug 30, 2013 20:53
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Torrannor posted:no matter what the FDP may want, we won't privatize our health care system or our pensions. Oh I wouldn't be so certain about that. And it's not even the FDP. Just look at what rot grün did with agenda 2010
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Aug 31, 2013 22:25
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They literally have Stefan Raab moderating the debate. And people wonder why no one is taking politics seriously anymore.
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Sep 1, 2013 19:35
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ArchangeI posted:They literally have Stefan Raab moderating the debate. And people wonder why no one is taking politics seriously anymore. I think the politicians are doing a good enough job of ensuring no one takes them seriously by themselves. Dressing up this shitshow of canned answers in particular and these non-elections in general can't hurt. Plus, Raab is actually getting Merkel a little pissed off! e:  Steinbrück is tanking on the Europe question. "I think it's good and right of the SPD that they supported the majority of our decisions" -- Merkel. That was a really good attack there, Peer.
Smirr fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Sep 1, 2013 |
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Sep 1, 2013 19:52
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Peer Steinbrück will lose this debate and nobody will be surprised.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:03
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Not even watching this since I can't stand seeing Steinbrück's dumb face or listening to his stupid rhetoric. Yet he's gonna get my vote. Hooray for politics. 
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Sep 1, 2013 20:09
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Peer Steinbrück will lose this debate and nobody will be surprised. He really looks like a minister of finance trying to do his boss' job.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:09
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I tried watching this after the first posts hit, but I still cannot stand these duels. Especially not Maybrit Illner's attempts to do critical journalism. I can understand interrupting politicians when they are dodging an issue, but repeatedly interrupting during the first two sentences and injecting word fragments mid-statement is neither professional nor useful for getting information out of politicians. Besides, you cannot make somebody eat their words, if they are still in a position to remodel those words.ArchangeI posted:He really looks like a minister of finance trying to do his boss' job. Foreshadowing! 
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Sep 1, 2013 20:16
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