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I like Redshirts quite a bit, but it wasn't really a great novel. Of the books nominated I haven't read Blackout, so I can't say anything about it, but the other three were good, but not really better, and like Redshirts not great either. Throne of the Crescent Moon was a good first book and Ahmed looks an incredibly promising writer, but too slow at places and with a few minor stumbles along the way in my opinion. Really love Vorkosigan, but Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance wasn't really a stand-out book inside the series. Didn't like 2312 at all, but I think I have to give up on Robinson, nothing since Years of Rice & Salt appealed much to me. Rather a weak year for (nominated) novels once again. Decius fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 12:31
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Megazver posted:So Scalzi won the Best Novel Hugo for Redshirts. Is Redshirts any good? I've read most of his stuff until Fuzzy Nation, and then I just gave up. I didn't really want to read another book where the main protagonist was a smug bastard. Also if I remember correctly, Scalzi's books have a higher pricing and I didn't want to pay that. Finally, the Hugo Awards seem rather pretentious to me and I haven't been interested in that many of the winning books. Although I find it fairly suspicious that mediocre books by Stross and Scalzi are nominated. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire won it one year, FFS. I like Stross, and have read most of his stuff, but not all of his books are that good. Cardiac fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 14:39
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Cardiac posted:Is Redshirts any good? It's a fun short story stretched out into a novella, with three short story "codas" in the end to pad it out into something people wouldn't stab you in the face for selling as a novel.
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Sep 2, 2013 15:11
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Speaking of the Hugos, occasional thread poster Citizen Insane just missed the nomination for Best New Writer by three votes. I don't know if this is cause for celebration or agony but 
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Sep 2, 2013 16:40
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Ornamented Death posted:I'm not saying your point is (necessarily) wrong, but at least one of your examples is. All of Abercrombie's work matches with regards to publication and internal chronology. I'm also drawing a blank on Stross, but he has more books out so its possible I'm forgetting one. My mistake on Abercrombie. Stross just wrapped up a complete re-write of the Merchant Princes series where he went back and added a bunch of stuff that the publishers originally had him axe due to contract issues.
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Sep 2, 2013 17:11
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Scalzi seems to be much better at publicizing himself than he is at writing. I enjoyed reading the first book of the Old Man's War series, but he hasn't seemed to have grown as a writer since then.
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Sep 2, 2013 17:21
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Cardiac posted:Is Redshirts any good? No, pretty clearly an award for having the right enemies. People voting "Thank you for having a good blog, and pushing through new anti-creeper convention policy, and for being the adult in the room when the dirty old creepers pushed back", rather than "I sure am glad I read a one-line joke padded out into a novel, with three codas"
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Sep 2, 2013 17:22
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Fallom posted:Scalzi seems to be much better at publicizing himself than he is at writing. I enjoyed reading the first book of the Old Man's War series, but he hasn't seemed to have grown as a writer since then. He did in The Android's Dream. It's his best work by far. Still kindof a mashup of Vernor Vinge and Douglas Adams, but sharp, fast-moving, and hilarious. Unfortunately the market seems to want more and more and more retreads of the Old Man's War universe, not comic SF. Scalzi's at his best writing humor. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 17:46
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Cardiac posted:Is Redshirts any good? The main story is amusing, but its the sort of thing a kid might come up with playing with his action figures. It seems like a fun idea to play around with, but you can't take it very far. It looks like Scalzi figured that out while he was writing, and he decided to just sorta, push his way though. He tacked on a bunch of stuff to make the story 'mean' something. It wasn't bad. It was entertaining, but it isn't anything special. Borrow it from a library or something if you're really really bored.
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Sep 2, 2013 17:48
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Fried Chicken posted:My mistake on Abercrombie. Stross just wrapped up a complete re-write of the Merchant Princes series where he went back and added a bunch of stuff that the publishers originally had him axe due to contract issues. I bought the first two books of Merchant Princes just last week (the original editions). How do I go from there? I'm already almost done with the first book. Should I grab the combined editions of books 3+4 and 5+6 instead of the old separate editions?
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Sep 2, 2013 17:52
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Oh lord, there's a complete Merchant Princes rewrite? I don't want to buy like twelve more books!
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Sep 2, 2013 17:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh lord, there's a complete Merchant Princes rewrite? I don't want to buy like twelve more books! Antti posted:I bought the first two books of Merchant Princes just last week (the original editions). How do I go from there? I'm already almost done with the first book. Should I grab the combined editions of books 3+4 and 5+6 instead of the old separate editions? He reworked a lot of stuff, especially the first two books, as he was forced by contract to take a hatchet to something that was supposed to be one book. The pacing is better, the books fit together better, he corrected some inconsistencies and made the whole thing flow better. But the basic structure and story is the same. It was mostly because he is writing a second series set after the first series about the severe fallout and extreme changes of the events of the first series. However the reworked series is rather cheaply available: http://goo.gl/oZqRnB http://goo.gl/4Y5e2V http://goo.gl/ElYbc2 I would go for the new versions over the old versions. Decius fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 18:45
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Full list of Hugo & Campbell winners here: http://www.locusmag.com/News/2013/09/2013-hugo-and-campbell-award-winners-in-progress/. Nice to see Pat Cadigan win Best Novelette; I haven't heard of her in years.General Battuta posted:Speaking of the Hugos, occasional thread poster Citizen Insane just missed the nomination for Best New Writer by three votes. I don't know if this is cause for celebration or agony but Congratulations!/Commiserations!(delete as applicable). I didn't realise there were so many published goons or I'd've put a section in the OP. specklebang posted:The drawing I attached are the (drafts) of the ones that adorn the interior pages of Scrivener's Moon. Mr. Reeve drew these in my copy as part of the auction agreement. This is Shrike (or Grike) with my 3 cats. I've only read the (published) first, but 
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Sep 2, 2013 19:01
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Decius posted:However the reworked series is rather cheaply available:
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Sep 2, 2013 19:30
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Decius posted:He reworked a lot of stuff, especially the first two books, as he was forced by contract to take a hatchet to something that was supposed to be one book. The pacing is better, the books fit together better, he corrected some inconsistencies and made the whole thing flow better. But the basic structure and story is the same. I'm neither American nor do I have a Kindle.  The omnibuses are up on bookdepository for 10 euros a piece or so, but I don't think I can really afford to buy the first two books all over again. However, it will be cheaper to buy the redone part 2 and 3. I'd get the first part from the library, but there's no way they'll be available within the next six months and I'm halfway through The Family Trade. If I hadn't bought book #2 I'd have bitten the bullet maybe. Edit: I did the math and since I only paid 6 euros for book #2, I'll get all three omnibus editions. Book #1 I won't give up because it's a souvenir. I was ready to pay 6 euros a piece for all six books, so paying 44 for the lot isn't that bad, especially if I can get some money back for book #2. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 20:09
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Cardiac posted:Is Redshirts any good? As a story its pretty middle of the road. Others here summed it up well. As a meta examination of writing focusing on plot, pacing, characterization, and point of view it is really good. It is more about examining writing and serving as a vehicle for criticism of how to write rather than examining the story, if that makes sense. There are digressions about tropes not matching up with motivations and goals, or deaths and actions having meaning, and flow of dialogue. The point of the codas wasn't to pad it out, it was to examine the earlier points on writing technique as they applied to different point of view. It's like "Be Kind, Rewind", but for writing rather than film making. EDIT: Better comparison - if you read the webcomic Order of the Stick, it has for the past few years been an extended lesson on writing, particularly villains, with the background of your standard D&D backed fantasy as the framework it is all hung on. That is basically Redshirts as well - very basic plot framework, from which he goes into stuff on writing better. Now that may or may not be your cup of tea, but it is why the book gets the credit it does, rather than just being that Scalzi promotes himself well. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 21:35
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Fried Chicken posted:As a story its pretty middle of the road. Others here summed it up well. As a meta examination of writing focusing on plot, pacing, characterization, and point of view it is really good. It is more about examining writing and serving as a vehicle for criticism of how to write rather than examining the story, if that makes sense. There are digressions about tropes not matching up with motivations and goals, or deaths and actions having meaning, and flow of dialogue. The point of the codas wasn't to pad it out, it was to examine the earlier points on writing technique as they applied to different point of view. It was kinda bullshit from the in-setting perspective. "Yeah, now that we know the scripts that we film for our lovely Star Trek ripoff tv show actually affect an alternate universe we're not going to use this knowledge with any kind of responsibility and maybe give them free energy sources, immortality drugs and pet giraffes or even have them stumble onto Planet Every Redshirt Out Of Hundreds We Casually Killed Is Resurrected Because Omnipotent Aliens, but instead we'll keep doing the exact same thing because, um, *hand waving* this is all a metaphorrrrr for writing something, except writers don't actually slaughter real people when they make their characters suffer."
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Sep 2, 2013 21:44
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House Louse posted:
Ah well, one man's meat is another man's poison. The 7 books are among my favorites but you don't like them. Maybe you would have enjoyed Mortal Engines more if you had started with Fever Crumb and didn't have to go through that huge suspension of disbelief the mobile cities may have challenged. Just as I can't stand certain greatly loved authors that others may rave about. Still, I check out almost every suggestion made here - often I don't find myself interested - but sometimes you get a match-up. So, has anybody read Liminal States by Zack Parsons (one of the owners or affiliated with this forum)?
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Sep 3, 2013 01:49
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specklebang posted:Ah well, one man's meat is another man's poison. The 7 books are among my favorites but you don't like them. Maybe you would have enjoyed Mortal Engines more if you had started with Fever Crumb and didn't have to go through that huge suspension of disbelief the mobile cities may have challenged. That's a cat face, dude, not an expression of dislike for the book. He's communicating adoration for the cat illustration you posted.
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Sep 3, 2013 01:53
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specklebang posted:So, has anybody read Liminal States by Zack Parsons (one of the owners or affiliated with this forum)?
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Sep 3, 2013 03:15
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House Louse posted:Full list of Hugo & Campbell winners here: http://www.locusmag.com/News/2013/09/2013-hugo-and-campbell-award-winners-in-progress/. Nice to see Pat Cadigan win Best Novelette; I haven't heard of her in years. I'm reading the 2013 Campbellian Pre-Reading Anthology brought up by the previous thread (it still looks up so get it if you haven't). Mur Lafferty's good, but I really liked Zen Cho's story about the aunts. Also, Southeast Asian fantasy! I loved The Emperor's Soul. Glad to see it win.
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Sep 3, 2013 03:15
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Fred Pohl passed away today. I don't know what his output was like in more recent years, but I may have to find the box I put Gateway into and give it a re-read.
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Sep 3, 2013 05:04
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General Battuta posted:That's a cat face, dude, not an expression of dislike for the book. He's communicating adoration for the cat illustration you posted. Ooops. Sorry. I'm low vision and misread what I thought I saw. Thought it was a scowl.
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Sep 3, 2013 05:26
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Word of warning, while the main character of 2312, Swan, is a self indulgent little spoiled poo poo (at 130 odd years old!) don't let it turn you off the book. It has a great and actually plausible solar system that is just lovely to get lost in. Also, Swan can be seen as a warning of dangers of a post-scarcity hedonist lifestyle. Earth is hosed though.
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Sep 3, 2013 06:40
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Kalman posted:Fred Pohl passed away today. I don't know what his output was like in more recent years, but I may have to find the box I put Gateway into and give it a re-read. That's too bad. Gateway was a good read, and from what I read of it (I think I got to book 3) the rest of the series is good too.
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Sep 3, 2013 06:51
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Apologies in advance for the low-content post; I (and by extension my wife, the high-school teacher) wanted to thank you all for the numerous recommendations a few pages back, we've now got a laundry list of examples and - from a purely selfish perspective - I've got a whole lot of books to try out! Locke Lamora seems to be a big favourite with the class currently, so I guess the kids these days aren't all bad.
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Sep 3, 2013 07:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:He did in The Android's Dream. It's his best work by far. Still kindof a mashup of Vernor Vinge and Douglas Adams, but sharp, fast-moving, and hilarious. Yeah, Old man's war and Ghost brigades was fun, even though it was a new version of Starship Troopers. The series then took a turn for the worse, and became boring and werewolves. He writes OK fiction, but all his protagonists are too smug for me at least. The God Engines is probably his most interesting work, and it is a pity it wasn't expanded upon.
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Sep 3, 2013 08:53
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Kalman posted:Fred Pohl passed away today. I don't know what his output was like in more recent years, but I may have to find the box I put Gateway into and give it a re-read. He mostly blogged. He seemed like a nice old guy.
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Sep 3, 2013 09:17
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Megazver posted:It was kinda bullshit from the in-setting perspective. I think Scalzi's at his best when he's writing characters. I wouldn't expect him to sit down and write a Serious People Novel About Social Issues, but in this case especially, bearing in mind the kind of story he's clearly been inspired by, it wouldn't make sense. I'm curious to know how many episodes of classic Star Trek you've watched if you're raising questions like this about a book that winds up being one part Trekkie homage and one part love story.
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Sep 3, 2013 10:05
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buildmorefarms posted:Locke Lamora seems to be a big favourite with the class currently, so I guess the kids these days aren't all bad. They won't be so keen when you ask for an essay comparing it with Oliver Twist.  And the book is basically about Oliver Twist when he grows up, if you stop to think. Locke is the Artful Dodger, Jean is Oliver and the Thiefmaker is Fagin.
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Sep 3, 2013 10:27
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Jedit posted:They won't be so keen when you ask for an essay comparing it with Oliver Twist. There's definitely some influences and allusions there but I think it's more complex than a strict 1 on 1 comparison. Even the clearest of those (Fagin=Thiefmaker) is somewhat complicated because Father Chains does the same job just more positively. The interesting comparison to write there would be a comparison of the two work's attitude towards social class and thieving. Oliver Twist represents thieving as an evil and the upper class as nearly synonymous with virtue; Locke Lamora makes that a fair bit more complicated. What'll make that kind of comparison really interesting is if we ever find out any information about Locke's parents (is his father still alive?) and family.
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Sep 3, 2013 14:43
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specklebang posted:Ah well, one man's meat is another man's poison. The 7 books are among my favorites but you don't like them. Maybe you would have enjoyed Mortal Engines more if you had started with Fever Crumb and didn't have to go through that huge suspension of disbelief the mobile cities may have challenged. No, I enjoyed the first book a lot, I thought the mobile cities were a really neat denunciation of gently caress You Got Mine-esque capitalism (:marx: - don't theye evn call it Municipal Darwinism?) and also cool to think about as if they were real; it's just that there's too many books, and so little time. Maybe one day I'll re-read them. And I also wanted to say that I liked your post that I replied to - it was heartfelt and convincing and had cute cats in it. Thanks. buildmorefarms posted:Apologies in advance for the low-content post; I (and by extension my wife, the high-school teacher) wanted to thank you all for the numerous recommendations a few pages back, we've now got a laundry list of examples and - from a purely selfish perspective - I've got a whole lot of books to try out! Do let us know how it goes.
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Sep 3, 2013 15:04
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Grimwall posted:Word of warning, while the main character of 2312, Swan, is a self indulgent little spoiled poo poo (at 130 odd years old!) don't let it turn you off the book. It has a great and actually plausible solar system that is just lovely to get lost in. Also, Swan can be seen as a warning of dangers of a post-scarcity hedonist lifestyle. There's also Wahram. Of course, I am not the author so maybe KSR had his reasons, but Wahram should have been the primary protagonist. I don't think I could have made it without Wahram.
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Sep 3, 2013 15:19
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I definitely almost put 2312 down a few times because of Swan, but I'm glad I didn't, because it was an overall great story with some interesting propositions. Even Swan really came alive during the animal sequences, reading about the animals coming back to earth floating down in bubbles, I just had a big grin on my face from ear to ear, it was an amazingly fantastical idea and done so well. The ending was just kinda bad though, it basically ends like Holy Grail with everyone being duly arrested by the authorities.
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Sep 3, 2013 20:47
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Loving Life Partner posted:
That is a tremendous comparison that retroactively improves my enjoyment of the ending of 2312.
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Sep 3, 2013 23:23
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Antti posted:There's also Wahram. Of course, I am not the author so maybe KSR had his reasons, but Wahram should have been the primary protagonist. I don't think I could have made it without Wahram. I actually enjoyed the contrast between Swan and Wahram quite a bit. One side showing the self-indulgence that a post-scarcity society could allow, the other showing the selfless devotion to causes enabled by the same thing. The Culture novels sometimes play on this as well. EDIT: Loving Life Partner posted:The ending was just kinda bad though, it basically ends like Holy Grail with everyone being duly arrested by the authorities. I had a moment of complete confusion there until I realized you meant Monty Python and not Indiana Jones  . There WAS a bunch of talk about immortality...Vinterstum fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 23:25
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Vinterstum posted:I actually enjoyed the contrast between Swan and Wahram quite a bit. One side showing the self-indulgence that a post-scarcity society could allow, the other showing the selfless devotion to causes enabled by the same thing. The Culture novels sometimes play on this as well. I think this nails it. Calling it a contrast between mercurial and saturnine temperaments is way off mark, even if that's what the author intended. Willy Wonka is mercurial, Swan is self-indulgent and immature (by our standards, and based on everyone else she pisses off throughout the story by their standards too).
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Sep 3, 2013 23:40
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I thought Swan was a well-realized character that didn't actually fit the role the plot wanted her to play. From the beginning of the story it's clear that her grandmother's faction (correctly!) don't really trust her, yet she still gets everything she wants and frequently seems to have dozens of people just waiting to follow her orders. More generally the book was really fuzzy about how resources were allocated by the spacer communities, which is an unusually big liability in a book which talks so much smack about Earth's capitalism (the biggest offense is at the end when the inspector, who has just spent most of the book acting like he works for a Space Interpol with a wide ambit but little actual power or authority, casually confiscates a moon-sized spaceship from an uninvolved faction and laughs off sensible objections). I really liked the world building for the most part but unfortunately the plot ends up depending on the inspector's ludicrous idea that somehow quantum computer AIs are pretty much OK if they are in a computer cluster somewhere but are unimaginably more dangerous entities when they are housed within a Cylon-style human replica body, as if a T-800 is somehow more dangerous than Skynet.
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Sep 4, 2013 01:07
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On my phone so no link but John "I like nazis and rape" ringo has decided to pick a fight with John scalzi over winning the Hugo. Interestingly, he says the exact same things as posters in this thread, almost verbatim
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Sep 4, 2013 01:37
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I feel that I can sum that up as "Even a broken clock is right twice a day", frankly.
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Sep 4, 2013 01:47
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