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UberJumper posted:I thought Slannesh was born during M30? The Rat posted:I thought that Slaanesh's birth was what blew away all the warp storms that allowed the Emperor to finally begin the great crusade.
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Sep 8, 2013 19:53
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Slaanesh has always existed, since time has no meaning in the warp, but he/she/it was also born after the fall of the Eldar. If this starts making sense, then report yourself to the Inquisition because you've become corrupted by the madness of the warp.
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Sep 8, 2013 19:54
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Kegslayer posted:I think the fluff might have changed but aren't the Chaos gods associated with life and growth as well? There was even a character in one of the warhammer fantasy army books that was a champion of Tzeentch? I think he was suppose to be an embodiment of life and change and stuff like grass was suppose to grow on his feet and plants reviving in his presence. I remember there being a piece of fluff related to the 8 pointed star and there being 4 more chaos gods.
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Sep 8, 2013 19:58
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UberJumper posted:I thought Slannesh was born during M30? Yeah, but time means little in the warp. So it's like... Slannesh existed and he had always existed at the same time. In the physical universe, his birth can be placed in M30 when the Eldar binged/tortured/murdered/raped too much one day.
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Sep 8, 2013 20:08
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Rabhadh posted:I remember there being a piece of fluff related to the 8 pointed star and there being 4 more chaos gods. Yeah there were four anti chaos gods, but they were dead/imprisoned, all sorts. It was a really crappy bit of fluff.
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Sep 8, 2013 20:15
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IIRC, there used to be more, but for various reasons there aren't any more, and there are a couple that are different in 40k versus fantasy. Malal (god of atheism) is so mired in copyright disputes (appropriately enough) that no-one can ever use him. The Horned Rat is one of the fantasy ones. There are a bunch of minor ones. Then the Eldar had I think 4 gods, of whom only two remain (the Laughing God, Khaine, the creation maiden who is now Nurgle's 'bride', and one other). There are a lot of gods, both major and minor. And that's ignoring Gork and Mork.
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Sep 8, 2013 20:56
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Yeah; within the context of Chaos, all the Ruinous Powers always have been and always will be, but in the interpretation of reality, where time gets stretched into a line that only goes one direction (i.e. reality vs. the warp), the various gods did have a 'starting' point. If Eldar accounts are true, then the first three chaos gods emerged during the time of the Eldar empire and the War In Heaven. Eldar emotions are super powerful, and they were saturating the warp with war-stuff way back when fighting against the necrons, and out comes a small but quickly growing warp storm that would eventually become Khorne, and so on. There were no doubt other early races throwing their own psychic impressions into the warp long before humanity was walking upright, the Eldar were the dominant species. I've always thought this seasons of the reasons the Emperor despised the Eldar; they're more or less the reason humanity's souls have been at risk since their first days, thus needing the E's protection, and the trouble surrounding Slaanesh's birth is what isolated and plunged humanity's awesome pre-Fall civilization into the Old Night. I can't say I'd be very fond of them after loving up humanity's glorious potential destiny so often.
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Sep 8, 2013 21:34
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I could've sworn I read something about Ghengiz Khan having something to do with Khorne?!]
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Sep 8, 2013 21:51
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Yeah I posted that above. I'll find it in LATD and StD tomorrow at work, fun lunch break.
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Sep 8, 2013 21:57
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The people in the Trad Games WH40k thread have been posting stuff about the new SM Codex and fluff changes, and this is what they had to say so far:NTRabbit posted:This is the first time I've read a lot of the 40k era SM fluff myself, rather than hearing about it second hand, but it seems like they've made a few changes, such as: Bionic Psyker posted:Black Templars also don't have (Pyro note: I think that's supposed to be "hate") all psykers anymore (it's a common misconception!) and would be open to the idea of librarians if the emperor sees fit to bless the chapter with them again.  ADB needs to go slap whoever wrote the SM Codex.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:18
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Pyrolocutus posted:ADB needs to go slap every writer except for himself, Abnett and Wraight. With a power fist. I fixed that for you.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:53
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Wow. That's dumb. The Black Templars were unique, now they're just... Another Ultramarine clone.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:59
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On the other hand, since The Templars were founded as a reaction to Guilliman imposing chapter limits, then it would be rather interesting if the Templars were secretly keeping higher-than-allowed numbers despite the official orders. Or was that speculation suggesting that the Templars' numbers are [i]smaller[\i] than previously estimated?
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Sep 8, 2013 23:35
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One Legged Cat posted:On the other hand, since The Templars were founded as a reaction to Guilliman imposing chapter limits, then it would be rather interesting if the Templars were secretly keeping higher-than-allowed numbers despite the official orders. Or was that speculation suggesting that the Templars' numbers are [i]smaller[\i] than previously estimated? The fluff up until now has strongly suggested that the Templars have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Marines, with their separate crusades a ploy to hide their true numbers. If what people are saying about the SM Codex is true, the Templars are no longer any stronger than your average chapter.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:03
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But does it really matter? Other than a rumor, what is really going to change?
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Sep 9, 2013 00:59
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berzerkmonkey posted:But does it really matter? Other than a rumor, what is really going to change? It'll make Helsreach no longer canon. Also Black Templars were one of the Big Names (alongside Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and the occasional other Chapter) that usually got their own codex alongside the generic Ultramarines, and they are pushed pretty hard by GW, marketing-wise. This is just changing fluff for the sake of changing fluff, without even a good rationale behind it. Unless GW is coming out with a new Space Marine chapter they intend to push the hell out of in place of the Black Templars, this makes no marketing sense either.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:10
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VanSandman posted:It'll make Helsreach no longer canon.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:17
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berzerkmonkey posted:How so? It's been a while since I read it, so I don't remember a whole lot about it - wasn't it just a small contingent (like a company)of BTs on the planet? It'll make Grimaldus a filthy liar, then.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:17
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Who gives a poo poo about 'canon'. Don't ever say that word again. It's a dirty, filthy, awful word.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:57
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One Legged Cat posted:There were no doubt other early races throwing their own psychic impressions into the warp long before humanity was walking upright, the Eldar were the dominant species. I've always thought this seasons of the reasons the Emperor despised the Eldar; they're more or less the reason humanity's souls have been at risk since their first days, thus needing the E's protection, and the trouble surrounding Slaanesh's birth is what isolated and plunged humanity's awesome pre-Fall civilization into the Old Night. This brings up an interesting point. What's the 40K consensus on evolution? Is the Emperor just an evolved monkey (monkeigh)?
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Sep 9, 2013 05:07
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Salamanders all have dark skin because they live in a volcanic hellhole. There were those human centaur dudes in Horus Rising. There are definitely short, stout Imperial Guard chapters because their recruiting worlds are all high-G. It's pretty clear that that humanity adapts to the planet it's on (but maybe it's just due to Magos Biologis tampering!)
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Sep 9, 2013 05:18
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Aries posted:This brings up an interesting point. What's the 40K consensus on evolution? Is the Emperor just an evolved monkey (monkeigh)? Monkey. Monkeigh. Monkeygh.  Why did I just realize this.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:22
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Who gives a poo poo about 'canon'. Don't ever say that word again. It's a dirty, filthy, awful word. Good point. As to the mon-keigh, if I recall correctly it means something along the line of stinky primitive, doesn't it?
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Sep 9, 2013 07:04
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Well yes, monkey=monkeigh, so 'damned dirty ape!' is pretty much it. Hence my wondering about evolution; is the emperor a glorified monkey?
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Sep 9, 2013 07:11
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One Legged Cat posted:Yeah; within the context of Chaos, all the Ruinous Powers always have been and always will be, but in the interpretation of reality, where time gets stretched into a line that only goes one direction (i.e. reality vs. the warp), the various gods did have a 'starting' point. If Eldar accounts are true, then the first three chaos gods emerged during the time of the Eldar empire and the War In Heaven. Eldar emotions are super powerful, and they were saturating the warp with war-stuff way back when fighting against the necrons, and out comes a small but quickly growing warp storm that would eventually become Khorne, and so on. Wait, i thought humanity was older than the Eldar? It was my impression humanity was the dominant power during the dark age of technology, with the help of the men of iron. Then when humanity fell due to the war between men of iron, the Eldar made their great empire only to fall to slaneesh?
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Sep 9, 2013 07:13
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UberJumper posted:Wait, i thought humanity was older than the Eldar? It was my impression humanity was the dominant power during the dark age of technology, with the help of the men of iron. Then when humanity fell due to the war between men of iron, the Eldar made their great empire only to fall to slaneesh? Yeah this bit isn't really explained anywhere. My theory is the two would occasionally wage huge wars, hence the Baneblade being a 'light tank' STC, but for the most part left each other alone. Unless they caused the Men of Iron thing.... Also the Eldar fought literally all of the Necrons and won, way way back when. At their height they were unimaginably powerful. They have even further than humans, and the cruelest part is many of them still remember the glory days, being immortal and all.
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Sep 9, 2013 07:23
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UberJumper posted:Wait, i thought humanity was older than the Eldar? It was my impression humanity was the dominant power during the dark age of technology, with the help of the men of iron. Then when humanity fell due to the war between men of iron, the Eldar made their great empire only to fall to slaneesh? Speaking of the great Eldar empire, how great could it have been when all their worlds were consumed by the Eye of Chaos, a region of space a fraction the size of the Imperium.
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Sep 9, 2013 07:31
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IIRC, it was already in decline when that happened.
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Sep 9, 2013 07:32
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UberJumper posted:Wait, i thought humanity was older than the Eldar? It was my impression humanity was the dominant power during the dark age of technology, with the help of the men of iron. Then when humanity fell due to the war between men of iron, the Eldar made their great empire only to fall to slaneesh? The Eldar were created by, and lived alongside, the Old Ones. As mentioned they beat the Necrons at their height. The Necrons ended up the way they are out of envy for the Eldar in their prime. If the Dark Age of Technology humans spread across the galaxy (as opposed to being the Tau to the Eldar's Imperium) then it was because the Eldar allowed it. The pointy ears were quite preoccupied with bumming themselves into Armageddon at the time. pentyne posted:Speaking of the great Eldar empire, how great could it have been when all their worlds were consumed by the Eye of Chaos, a region of space a fraction the size of the Imperium. Those where the core worlds. Centered around the homeworld. The worlds further out throughout the galaxy just ended up depopulated when the psychic shockwave hit.
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Sep 9, 2013 09:07
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Aries posted:This brings up an interesting point. What's the 40K consensus on evolution? Is the Emperor just an evolved monkey (monkeigh)? The Imperium tolerates abhumans, which makes me think they're actually OK with naturally evolved forms. It's when you throw the Warp into the mix and get totally random things like tentacles and extra mouths that they get upset. Humans are becoming more psychic but the fluff doesn't explain why this is so in a Darwinian sense. What selective advantage is there to being a psyker?
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Sep 9, 2013 10:42
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I'd wager a psyker has advantages in being able to kill with a look, manipulate reality, and a myriad of other things.
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Sep 9, 2013 11:41
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I wonder what the Eldar thought when they found out that the Mon-keighs were hiding the most powerful and wise psyker the galaxy had ever seen.
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Sep 9, 2013 14:18
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Baron Bifford posted:I wonder what the Eldar thought when they found out that the Mon-keighs were hiding the most powerful and wise psyker the galaxy had ever seen. They probably noticed as soon as the Emperor existed and decided to stay the gently caress away from Earth. Also Eldrad (more like Oldrad, am I right fellas?) says in Fulgrim that he drat well warned the Emperor about Chaos, and the Emperor didn't listen. Which is probably the dumbest thing the Emperor ever did, considering Eldrad is probably number two in terms of psyker power. Also, the Eldar are explicitly very likely to be psykers, yet other than the whole 'souls eaten by a monster created from their own hubris and indulgence' they don't seem to fall to chaos possession, unless I misremember. It seems to me that if humanity's evolutionary destiny is to all become psykers, then they'll need to evolve something like the Eldar's 'no chaos craziness' gene. Anything in the fluff about that at all? VanSandman fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 14:35
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pentyne posted:Speaking of the great Eldar empire, how great could it have been when all their worlds were consumed by the Eye of Chaos, a region of space a fraction the size of the Imperium. Quality over quantity. VanSandman posted:They probably noticed as soon as the Emperor existed and decided to stay the gently caress away from Earth. Also Eldrad (more like Oldrad, am I right fellas?) says in Fulgrim that he drat well warned the Emperor about Chaos, and the Emperor didn't listen. Which is probably the dumbest thing the Emperor ever did. Well the key is that you can never trust the Eldar because they're so manipulative and have weird ideas and are terrible at communicating, so he was probably ignored. It's sort of their own fault. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 14:36
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UberJumper posted:Wait, i thought humanity was older than the Eldar? It was my impression humanity was the dominant power during the dark age of technology, with the help of the men of iron. Then when humanity fell due to the war between men of iron, the Eldar made their great empire only to fall to slaneesh? The great days of the Eldar were like during the days of the dinosaurs on earth, so no, humanity is not even a blip on the screen compared to the eldar.
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Sep 9, 2013 14:42
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VanSandman posted:It seems to me that if humanity's evolutionary destiny is to all become psykers, then they'll need to evolve something like the Eldar's 'no chaos craziness' gene. Anything in the fluff about that at all? VanSandman posted:They probably noticed as soon as the Emperor existed and decided to stay the gently caress away from Earth. Also Eldrad (more like Oldrad, am I right fellas?) says in Fulgrim that he drat well warned the Emperor about Chaos, and the Emperor didn't listen. Which is probably the dumbest thing the Emperor ever did, considering Eldrad is probably number two in terms of psyker power. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 14:55
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VanSandman posted:Which is probably the dumbest thing the Emperor ever did Dunno, man. The "Dumb poo poo the Emperor Did" list is pretty loving long.
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Sep 9, 2013 15:26
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Just finished Wolfblade, the fourth and last Space Wolf book by William King. The series is better and cleverer than it sounds--I like how the prologue and epilogue frames the entire book as a flashback, as Ragnar reminisces about what he did before becoming a Wolf Lord. The banter is really fun and I'll miss it a lot as the last few books were done by a different author. The Emperor's Gift made me think about what makes ADB good at characterization. He does it by portraying the relationships between characters--Space Marines to normal humans especially. In Betrayer, Lorgar talks to Magnus, Angron, and Horus, and the barbs exchanged really set my teeth on edge. The companionship between the Inquisitor and Hyperion was very good, and each member of Squad Castian was unique from each other. I also thought that the reveal on Hyperion's identity was brilliant and satisfying. I wasn't too enamored of the plot, but the conflict was great.
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Sep 9, 2013 15:40
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ADB makes each character have a voice, even if that voice is filled with only hate. I'd love for him to do a short story where you get Kharn being Kharn and attacking his own allies, then a flashback to some interaction between Kharn and the dude he is stabbing in the back. Preferably pre-Angron, when the World Eaters were still the War Hounds.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:13
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Schneider Heim posted:I wasn't too enamored of the plot, but the conflict was great. Man that book could have been 350 pages of dicks and just the assault on Angron and I would have been happy. One of the greatest scenes even written by a BL author no doubt.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:39
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