|
I'm watching the votes come in live here in Darmstadt and the win is switching every few minutes between Charles M. Huber of "Der Alte" fame and Brigitte Zypries. This is amazing.
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 15:06 |
|
|
Randler posted:I'm probably biased because I hail from the black heart of Westphalia, but the Junge Union is way more organized and accessible than their SPD counterpart. The fact that the JuSos are generally way more radical in their politics probably does not really help them attracting young people in a country where the political mainstream is dominated by middle-of-the-road positions. Interesting. I'm from a country where youth parties are a bit of a joke and don't play a hugely important role in recruiting voters (Switzerland), so I hadn't thought of this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:25
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the English word "majority" already mean what we call "absolute Mehrheit" in German? and the only way to break the CDU majority is if the AfD manages to hop over the 5% barrier...
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:26
|
|
|
So what policies are the CDU/CSU government likely to pursue? Anything unusual or the typical liberal stuff. (Also chalk another person up for being amazed at the amount of younger people supporting the CDU.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:26
|
|
|
Greyhawk posted:I'm watching the votes come in live here in Darmstadt and the win is switching every few minutes between Charles M. Huber of "Der Alte" fame and Brigitte Zypries. This is amazing. Could you post some kind of periodic update on this here? I can't be there live and can't find a live ticker for it, either. And I want to see how it turns out. Also, I am super conflicted about the results right now. Absolute majority for the CDU on the one hand, FDP and AfD out on the other. I think I might need a beer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
Teron D Amun posted:and the only way to break the CDU majority is if the AfD manages to hop over the 5% barrier... Yeah, I don't even know how to take this. Should I hope the AfD gets in to prevent the CDU from governing alone? Am I relieved that these crazies did not get in? Am I sad that the FDP did not make it into the Bundestag? Just wow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
parrhesia posted:Could you post some kind of periodic update on this here? I can't be there live and can't find a live ticker for it, either. And I want to see how it turns out. You can watch the individual results come in here http://www.darmstadt.de/software/wahlen/BW/2013/BW13186WK/BW13186WK/index.html
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the English word "majority" already mean what we call "absolute Mehrheit"? quote:At least the majority in the Bundesrat is still held by the left. If all goes right we might even expand our votes if we get Hessen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:31
|
|
|
Geokinesis posted:(Also chalk another person up for being amazed at the amount of younger people supporting the CDU.) My hippie vegan girlfriend whose hot-button issue is green energy didn't vote for CDU, but isn't unhappy that they're going to win again. "At least Angela Merkel will be chancellor." 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
Geokinesis posted:So what policies are the CDU/CSU government likely to pursue?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
Hahaha, Seehofer saying such a majority should be the exception in a democracy. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
frankenfreak posted:Hahaha, Seehofer saying such a majority should be the exception in a democracy. Bavaria isn't really a democracy though. Heh.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
die Zeugen Seehofers would disagree with you there 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Yeah, I don't even know how to take this. Should I hope the AfD gets in to prevent the CDU from governing alone? Am I relieved that these crazies did not get in? Am I sad that the FDP did not make it into the Bundestag? Just wow. It's probably for the better if they stay out. Even a majority-CDU will pretty much just stay the course and maintain the status quo whereas the AfD has the potential to become actively harmful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
frankenfreak posted:Nothing new. Just continuation of what we've seen in the last four years. Maybe the pressure will get high enough to finally introduce a real minimum wage and maaayyybeee Seehofer gets his stupid PKW-Maut. Would love to see Seehofer argue that before the EuGH.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
frankenfreak posted:Nothing new. Just continuation of what we've seen in the last four years. Maybe the pressure will get high enough to finally introduce a real minimum wage and maaayyybeee Seehofer gets his stupid PKW-Maut. I do find it strange the younger voters not voting more for parties that had actually backed the idea of a proper minimum wage. edit: (Then again it is hardly exceptional what with the UK's last election leading to such a shitshow of a govt.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:42
|
|
|
It's a trend throughout Northern Europe, I think. The youth is becoming conservative, probably because of the relatively easy times that we're having and the perceived obsolescence of the welfare state. The only stable European country that I *think* bucks this trend is France, and French politics have always been weird.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:49
|
|
|
Geokinesis posted:I do find it strange the younger voters not voting more for parties that had actually backed the idea of a proper minimum wage. Proper minimum wage is somewhat misleading, though. While there is no universal statute setting a minimum wage, there are a lot of situations where minimum wages already exist. For example the Arbeitnehmer-Entsendegesetz, Tarifverträge and the Berufsbildungsgesetz explicitly or implicitly set minimum wages even before you consider that German civil law also bans exploitatory wages. Personally, I think the problem is less the lack of a universal minimum wage and more with the state encouraging "400 Euro Job". (Thanks, SPD!  )
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:It's a trend throughout Northern Europe, I think. The youth is becoming conservative, probably because of the relatively easy times that we're having and the perceived obsolescence of the welfare state. The only stable European country that I *think* bucks this trend is France, and French politics have always been weird. Does France count as "Northern Europe" anyway? It's not Southern Europe, but it seems very different from all the other Northern countries, to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:It's probably for the better if they stay out. Even a majority-CDU will pretty much just stay the course and maintain the status quo whereas the AfD has the potential to become actively harmful. and then they have nobody else to blame but themselves should they lose the next election in 2017 just kidding, we all know Merkel could succesfully convince everyone that it was all the CSUs fault and get reelected again and again
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
Yeah, France is weird. I just felt I should include it since that's the major country that's been going against the prevailing liberal-conservative trend in Europe.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
Geokinesis posted:I do find it strange the younger voters not voting more for parties that had actually backed the idea of a proper minimum wage. Why is it so surprising that a minimum wage is not universally considered a good idea in a country with such huge diversity in income and cost-of-life such as in Germany? Angela Merkel, once again, has done an excellent job in bringing across that yes, they do want a minimum wage but no, not the same minimum wage for every job and every region. But sure, everyone should have enough to live. And just like that Merkel had once again won the argument, Steinbrück did not counter this point which is just shameful for any SPD politician. Bottomline, Steinbrück was not nearly a good enough politician to win against Merkel. She is an excellent politican, true, but Steinbrück was no match.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:53
|
|
|
Christ, only 51 % of eligible voters in my district went and voted. It's less than 400 meters from anywhere to the booth, you fat fucks. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:55
|
|
|
I keep on hearing about this 'demographic timebomb' on the bbc and im wondering what germans actually think of it. I already know that you guys have a really crappy fertility rate but I was under the impression that the only people who actually cared about were  types.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:55
|
|
|
Lawman 0 posted:I keep on hearing about this 'demographic timebomb' on the bbc and im wondering what germans actually think of it. Literally the TV debate: Steinbrück: "Gonna be a huge problem, here are some numbers, we really need to change things. We will have concrete problems in ten years in the following prog..." Merkel: "Actually, we are in the best postition to counter this problem ever before. We will figure it out when it comes, just like we do now. Germany is better off than ever before. This is out doing. With us, we can solve this problem, if anyone can it's us. Because we are so well off right now. Did you notice how good everything goes right now? Do you NOT want this to continue?" *Germans go and vote Merkel* Repeat this for literally any topic
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:00
|
|
|
Randler posted:I'm probably biased because I hail from the black heart of Westphalia, but the Junge Union is way more organized and accessible than their SPD counterpart. The fact that the JuSos are generally way more radical in their politics probably does not really help them attracting young people in a country where the political mainstream is dominated by middle-of-the-road positions. As someone from Paderborn, the CDU could probably enter a broom with a wig and would still win every single time..
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:03
|
|
|
Lawman 0 posted:I keep on hearing about this 'demographic timebomb' on the bbc and im wondering what germans actually think of it. Well we would have to make up the shortfall with immigration (uhhhhhh...) give the immigrants jobs (uhhhhhh....) and we would have to educate the children of these immigrants in are schools (uhhhhhhh...) so they can have jobs, too. The german pension system is set up so money payed today is payed to pensioners directly, so when the number of payers shrinks while the number of pensioners grows, we have a problem. It is really not just a 14 words thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:04
|
|
|
Lawman 0 posted:I keep on hearing about this 'demographic timebomb' on the bbc and im wondering what germans actually think of it. The way Germany's pension system is structured, the currently working population is paying for the currently retired people. As long as there e are significantly more young than old people, it's a good system, but since out society becomes rapidly older, they have to constantly lower the pension while increasing the age by which you can receive payments. Though I generally thought while they didn't solve the problem, it is not as dire as it looked a few years back. And didn't our birth rate actually increase?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:06
|
|
|
Reminder that Germany is so immigration friendly, it actually wanted to send back the immigrants from the 50's to their respective countries as late as in the 70's. Yeah. e X posted:
uuuuuhhh under Merkel, surely we have already solved this minor issue uuuuhhh
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:06
|
|
|
e X posted:The way Germany's pension system is structured, the currently working population is paying for the currently retired people. As long as there e are significantly more young than old people, it's a good system, but since out society becomes rapidly older, they have to constantly lower the pension while increasing the age by which you can receive payments. I just looked it up and its. quote:Rank Country Fr Replacement rate for developed countries is about 2.1 so yeah you guys are not having enough kids.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:13
|
|
|
Lawman 0 posted:I just looked it up and its. Yeah but basically no western nation is. France and America are the highest but just below 2.1
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:20
|
|
|
What is really troubling is that if the CDU/CSU has the majority, the CSU is now practically the coalition partner. What this means is that Bavaria now has a direct influence in the Bundestag, as single state. That means more than just Ramsauer building most infrastructure in the South. It means the democratic system of Germany is out of whack.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:25
|
|
|
Lawman 0 posted:Replacement rate for developed countries is about 2.1 so yeah you guys are not having enough kids. Well yeah, because no adequate political solution that allows people to have a career AND raise a family has yet been implemented. It's a huge problem here in Switzerland too. Having a kid shouldn't be economic suicide, but it is, especially for those who the state wants to reproduce the most (i. e. university graduates).
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:36
|
|
|
Lawman 0 posted:
Something to outsource to Africa and South-East-Asia. Yeah, that's why I find all the anti-immigration rhetoric and legislation in Europe so ridiculous. We are one or two decades away from begging the kids of the guys we now send back to please come to us and live in the empty cities and care for a couple of nations full of old farts. Or develop robots.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:44
|
|
|
quote:Bundesland Bayern Wahlkreis 227 - Deggendorf Come on, you guys. Stop trolling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:48
|
|
|
Decius posted:Or develop robots. Literally what Japan is planning http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/07/19/203372076/will-robot-nannies-save-japans-economy quote:In other countries, childcare jobs are often done in part by immigrants. But Japan has very few foreign-born workers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:50
|
|
|
Newest numbers small parties: Piraten 2.2%, Freie Wähler 0.8%, NPD 1.5%. AfD has twice the votes than the Piraten! I mean the Piraten were a disorganized mess, not fit to govern anything, but this surely is true of the AfD as well? At least the AfD is still under the 5% threshold. Just a question, did they need Bundesrat approval to get the LKW-Maut enacted? Because I cannot see a PKW-Maut getting a majority there. Edit: Obama would probably weep with joy if he had approval numbers like Angela Merkel. Number of people who said she did a good job: 80%! Torrannor fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Sep 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:05
|
|
|
I'm not complaining, but how did the FDP lose so many votes? Did their previous voters go to CDU/CSU and AfD?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:11
|
|
|
Velho! posted:I'm not complaining, but how did the FDP lose so many votes? Did their previous voters go to CDU/CSU and AfD? Didn't Merkel basically tell people to vote for the CDU/CSU and not the FDP?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 15:06 |
|
|
Velho! posted:I'm not complaining, but how did the FDP lose so many votes? Did their previous voters go to CDU/CSU and AfD? I think them getting so many votes last time was just lucky and the fact that a lot of people ran away from the two big parties. But then they embarrassed themselves right out of the gate by blatantly giving handouts to certain businesses that sponsored them. Probably they also got a bunch of young voters back then who realized they were actually poo poo (and not really liberal but just neocon) and went on to other parties (probably CDU). AfD sucked some voters away and the FDP just never did anything to really win some voters back (that I can think of).
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:23
|
|