|
Art is a strong selling point in gaming, and artists definitely got to eat. I'm a strong proponent of the 'gently caress you; pay me' philosophy of wage negotiation for 'creatives'. There are limits, though. Those companies who put out thick tomes that drip with art from every page, that cost northward of fifty, sixty bucks for a corebook, or the ones that sell boutique editions for upward of a hundred a shot? They're not just selling art, or even rules: they're leveraging names that already echo through nerd-caves everywhere, and reputations for selling things that are worth paying top dollar for. A Kickstarter by a bunch of amateurs who are dead-set on making something as pretty as a D&D, or Pathfinder, or Rogue Trader book... is not. Even if unformatted playtest information is disseminated, they're trying to sell a pig in a poke. Those professionally produced books sell for so much not just because of our friend, inflation, but because people can flip through them at the store. Because there are reviews from reputable people, and word of mouth from the rest. A Kickstarter offers little tangible, but asks a lot... especially when it's asking close to fifty bucks for a couple of PDFs. There are companies that ask for twenty-plus for PDFs, sure. Again, they're established publishers, and I still hesitate to fork out that much even then.
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:09 |
|
|
I don't consider art when I think of buying a PDF. If I buy a PDF I just want to check out the game, skim it, and see if it looks good. If I want to run it, I'll buy the book. If I think the art is great and the game is great, I'll buy the book to have on my shelf. But really, I care so little about art in a PDF that I'm certainly not going to pay $40 for a pdf (or a pair of pdfs) even if you reanimate Leonardo Da Vinci and get him to sketch you some cool airships. For me, art is all about the physical copies.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:58
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:I don't consider art when I think of buying a PDF. If I buy a PDF I just want to check out the game, skim it, and see if it looks good. If I want to run it, I'll buy the book. If I think the art is great and the game is great, I'll buy the book to have on my shelf. But really, I care so little about art in a PDF that I'm certainly not going to pay $40 for a pdf (or a pair of pdfs) even if you reanimate Leonardo Da Vinci and get him to sketch you some cool airships. Yeah, this is basically my approach. It's why I went in for hardbacks of stuff like Fate of the Norns: Ragnarok and New Fire. Those are GORGEOUS books and I'm really glad I picked them up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:25
|
|
|
Speaking of expensive PDFs, what do people here think of this (now-funded) project? It's 6 separate games, with separate $19 PDF tiers for each (plus a single $14 tier for any of them so you can get one cheaper) and then it has other tiers like $50 for a PDF and softcover copy of the same game. I saw it when it first went up and I was interested, but it seemed ridiculously expensive so I never put any money in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
That seems kind of cool, but I think he priced himself out of any sort of success. What does it mean when seven people in the whole world are willing to pay $19 for a PDF of one of your games? (You shouldn't charge $19.) I look at PDFs as something to browse until the real book arrives, as "icing" on top of an already great deal, or as something to push me over the fence if I'm sitting on it. They're kinda' useless for running a game and the art's lost on my tablet. The only time I've put noticeable money into a PDF is when $30 into Accursed, and that's because the Accursed Scroll level is essentially a down-payment on the PoD.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 02:17
|
|
|
You're asking $10 for a postcard. That is insane. EDIT: This is referring to Beyonder. VoodooXT fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Sep 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 02:29
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:For me, art is all about the physical copies. Back to PDF pricing... Even if your awesome rpg is somehow worth $40 for a PDF (it's not, but it's not like I could think of any pdfs that would be), I'm not going to sink that much money into it blind, while not knowing how the rules will be, the setting, the writing quality, if it will ever be finished, etc. Or, not until I see reviews by people I trust. At least, that's where I am.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 02:45
|
|
|
I'll just note that almost every RPG Kickstarter I have backed with very few exceptions (and those exceptions coming with pedigree I -know- I dig) I've done at an average price of $10 per PDF, with a few $15s and a few even cheaper. Past that it's just not impulse purchase territory and if I don't know your work I look at the likelihood of your product getting into play (I have dozens if not hundreds of RPGs and get through maybe one a year max if I'm lucky, so, near zero) and skip it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 04:04
|
|
|
There have been very successful Kickstarters that charged thirty, forty bucks for their .pdfs. However, these tend to be big-name companies who aren't really trying to sell the .pdfs. They're trying to sell the hard copies, and the .pdf sales on those tend to be abysmal. Like everyone else has said, ten or twenty bucks is the usual price of a .pdf for a game. Yeah, you still have expenses like paying the artists, but the costs of distribution and physical production are non-factors. You're an unknown. You need people willing to impulse buy your product. You can't effectively charge low enough for your book to do that; there are going to be fewer people willing to take you at your word on the product. But a ten, twenty buck .pdf? People are more likely to take the chance on it. And they're more likely to tell their friends about the book, or try and get them to play the game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 04:30
|
|
|
 Just a Facebook page, but these folks have been at this since this summer so it's legit. Some prototype figs from Gencon this year: 
Al Baron fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Sep 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 08:18
|
|
|
Al Baron posted:Megaman Board Game I don't understand kickstarters for licensed properties. Will companies license their IP to just any random fool who walks in the door? Don't they require potential licensors to show that they're actually capable of producing a product on their own before they'll make a deal?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 10:57
|
|
|
Question that I'll happily move to the State of Tradgames thread if it's too off-topic for this one, but why wouldn't companies be happy to let anyone with the money pay for a license so long as they agree also to be bound by the terms of whatever license agreement exists, which in many (I would guess nearly all) cases likely have some sort of parent-company review/approval clause which means that if you produce something that the license-holder thinks could harm the brand they can go "no dice buddy"? I'm sure it has to be a more complex process than that, but I'm neither a person who holds valuable IP or tries making licensed stuff for sale so.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 11:02
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:I don't understand kickstarters for licensed properties. Will companies license their IP to just any random fool who walks in the door? Don't they require potential licensors to show that they're actually capable of producing a product on their own before they'll make a deal? They may have to show that their product will be good, but actually being able to produce it is a secondary consideration. If the Kickstarter fails and the licensees can't produce the game, the rights will revert and the IP holders will essentially have been given free money.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 11:05
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Question that I'll happily move to the State of Tradgames thread if it's too off-topic for this one, but why wouldn't companies be happy to let anyone with the money pay for a license so long as they agree also to be bound by the terms of whatever license agreement exists, which in many (I would guess nearly all) cases likely have some sort of parent-company review/approval clause which means that if you produce something that the license-holder thinks could harm the brand they can go "no dice buddy"? I'm sure it has to be a more complex process than that, but I'm neither a person who holds valuable IP or tries making licensed stuff for sale so. Well in my experience licenses are almost always exclusive for a product type. So if I license my IP to somebody to make boardgames, they're the only ones who can make board games for my IP. So licensing to somebody who can't make a product is tying up that license that could be out there making you money and expanding your brand. I know that a lot of the big IP holders like Disney and Marvel will license anyone for just about any type of product (party hats and plates come to mind) but I always thought they at least made sure the company was capable of producing the product they made the deal for.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 11:16
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:Well in my experience licenses are almost always exclusive for a product type. So if I license my IP to somebody to make boardgames, they're the only ones who can make board games for my IP. So licensing to somebody who can't make a product is tying up that license that could be out there making you money and expanding your brand. I would have assumed that license-holders would have some sort of early termination clause if the licensee is a total fuckup just squatting on it but then I remember the state of affairs with the D&D video game license and, welp, I guess maybe not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 11:20
|
|
|
Are there any good miniatures KS currently seeking funding? I have some money saved up for KS this month and I'd like to fund a miniature related one. Any suggestions?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 12:37
|
|
|
What Jedit said. Party hats are cheap and easy; nobody's going to care how lousy they are. People dropping big money on a tie-in that turns out to be hot garbage, or not doing so (see the D&D movies) can be downright poisonous to later attempts. Not enough people will notice or care that lovely Megaman Game was made by lovely Company, and New Megaman Game is made by New Company-- they're just going to remember how lovely the whole thing was before. Plus licensing can be really goddamn weird. Before they imploded, Interplay sued the owners of the Star Trek IP because they claimed that the low quality/popularity of the related TV shows and lack of new movies was harming their bottom line as the video game licensor. Nevermind that their offerings themselves were often iffy at best to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 12:49
|
|
|
If their responses on the Facebook page are to be believed, they can produce something on their own, they just want to take it to Kickstarter to add in more features than they could afford to with their current funding.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:07
|
|
|
radlum posted:Are there any good miniatures KS currently seeking funding? I have some money saved up for KS this month and I'd like to fund a miniature related one. Any suggestions? Mars Attacks from Mantic is up in 9 days if you can wait that long, though the minis are all single piece and non posable.  On the other hand they look like that 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:09
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:Mars Attacks from Mantic is up in 9 days if you can wait that long, though the minis are all single piece and non posable. Oh my. That looks cool...
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:32
|
|
|
They're too tall! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 14:13
|
|
|
There's a cool Winter War miniatures kickstarter up, Finns against onion-hat Red Army. The £60 platoon is probably the best deal, where you get your choice of either of the following:   (Samples of Finnish sholdiers) The quality isn't spectacular but it's competent, and the stretch goals have already blown it into a great value-for-cost if you do wargaming in that period. (Or WWII if you don't mind the wrong hats on your Soviets.) And no Christopher Lee, either.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 14:25
|
|
|
radlum posted:Are there any good miniatures KS currently seeking funding? I have some money saved up for KS this month and I'd like to fund a miniature related one. Any suggestions? The new Reaper: Bones campaign should be starting relatively soon. There is also this one. Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Sep 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 14:37
|
|
|
radlum posted:Are there any good miniatures KS currently seeking funding? I have some money saved up for KS this month and I'd like to fund a miniature related one. Any suggestions? I would just save it for the Reaper one and get wayyyy more minis. Edit: damnit
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 14:39
|
|
|
Bieeardo posted:Plus licensing can be really goddamn weird. Before they imploded, Interplay sued the owners of the Star Trek IP because they claimed that the low quality/popularity of the related TV shows and lack of new movies was harming their bottom line as the video game licensor. Nevermind that their offerings themselves were often iffy at best to begin with. It really can't be understated how pants-on-head-crazy Interplay has been lately when using them as an example. Also, has anybody heard anything about OVA? There was an update about them likely missing their projected August release date, then... nothing. Probably the TT kickstarter I'm most worried about at this point. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 15:05
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:It really can't be understated how pants-on-head-crazy Interplay has been lately when using them as an example. The most recent thing is a forum post by the developer on September 6th: Clay Gardner posted:I'm still working hard on the book. I'll post more specific news when I have it, but getting great art pieces all the time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 15:18
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:The new Reaper: Bones campaign should be starting relatively soon. Thanks for the suggestion. Their previous project look interesting; I guess I'll wait. If I ever bring ponies to my gaming group I'm pretty sure I'd have to look for a new gaming group...
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 16:14
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:Mars Attacks from Mantic is up in 9 days if you can wait that long, though the minis are all single piece and non posable. Any idea what scale they are? the look a little long to be 28mm?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 22:53
|
|
|
They're going to be 28mm, but Mantic tends to use more realistic (?) proportions so their stuff looks less chunky than a lot of other companies. This image just got posted. The bases are 25mm, or about the same as a GW round base.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 23:36
|
|
|
Arg... looks like I'll be buying into another game  Not sure I like the terrain, its using the same system as Deadzone, but with a modern aesthetic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 00:02
|
|
|
radlum posted:Are there any good miniatures KS currently seeking funding? I have some money saved up for KS this month and I'd like to fund a miniature related one. Any suggestions? There's also Fairytale Games. I saw it yesterday when I was browsing the games section and it looks kind of interesting but there's also a ton of words and I couldn't really parse what all the reward levels are so it might actually just be a terrible kickstarter based on a good idea. edit - I really wish kickstarters that have a ton of stuff in the reward tiers would use more plain language instead of trying to create weird terminology for each pledge level. Or at the very least have a FAQ answer for "what do I pledge to get all the minis". So many times I see a project where I'd love to pledge to the "get one of everything" level but I can't figure out which level that is so I just don't bother.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
I'm actually very excited about the Mars Attacks terrain and will probably order way too many extras of it. And then I build Stalingrad. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 00:19
|
|
|
Apologies for the miscommunication there: we have stayed firmly away from any themes of sexual assault in this game. We could possibly introduce some in a very thoughtful context that took into account the weight of that theme, but would of course label it with clear trigger warnings. (The goblin reproduction we mention actually refers to a nasty little blood ritual -- suitably dark and unique to our setting, but it sticks to good ol' fashioned ritualistic themes.) I do want to say, though -- thank you for bringing that up! Not just because it's good to be checked on this front, but because it makes us REALLY happy to see awareness of sexual assault and rape culture becoming more prevalent in the gaming community. We still have a ways to go in terms of not objectifying/sexualizing women, of course, but it's so good to see that the RPG community is making steps. :-)
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 00:58
|
|
|
Oh, awesome. I think it says something about the state of the RPG industry that I just assumed the worst. I like you. Bring out a $10 or $15 black and white/line art/no art PDF or other stripped down version, and you've got my pledge.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 01:11
|
|
|
This makes me want to get into wargaming.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 01:12
|
|
|
TheFlyingNightBear posted:Apologies for the miscommunication there: we have stayed firmly away from any themes of sexual assault in this game. We could possibly introduce some in a very thoughtful context that took into account the weight of that theme, but would of course label it with clear trigger warnings. (The goblin reproduction we mention actually refers to a nasty little blood ritual -- suitably dark and unique to our setting, but it sticks to good ol' fashioned ritualistic themes.) Oh man, I think I was the one who pointed that out to demota as worrying, and seeing this kind of attitude makes me more inclined to pledge to Beyonder. (Or, I mean, it would, if the PDFs were cheaper, because I'm not really sitting on $40 of cash to spend based on feelings of goodwill, but still, if I have a sudden windfall, maybe).
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 01:15
|
|
|
TheFlyingNightBear posted:Apologies for the miscommunication there: we have stayed firmly away from any themes of sexual assault in this game. We could possibly introduce some in a very thoughtful context that took into account the weight of that theme, but would of course label it with clear trigger warnings. (The goblin reproduction we mention actually refers to a nasty little blood ritual -- suitably dark and unique to our setting, but it sticks to good ol' fashioned ritualistic themes.) Here, take my forty dollars and a promise to back any future projects you undertake.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 01:27
|
|
|
cyberia posted:There's also Fairytale Games. People will throw Slenderman into almost anything won't they?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 04:02
|
|
|
thiswayliesmadness posted:People will throw Slenderman into almost anything won't they? To be fair, he is a modern day fairy tale monster. A faceless being that stalks children who stray too far into the woods at night and takes them away to God knows where is something right out of a fairy tale. My main complaint about the minis is just that their Jabberwocky is so...plain. It's just a dragon. I don't know; maybe its because the poem is made of nonsense words, but I imagined the beast to be more unique.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 04:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:09 |
|
|
I thought Slender only preyed upon manchildren. I've always liked the Jabberwock they had on an episode of the Muppet Show; it was quite similar to the original drawing, coloured an unwholesome green and with bared buck teeth that almost gave me nightmares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGCJFFxoHJ4
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 04:46
|
|