p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

no that was tbc

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:42

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# ? May 26, 2024 14:36

Posting Principle: Dec 10, 2011; by Ralp

Tiny Bug Child posted:

you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. i do not parse broken XML, scrub. i am the broken XML. some affiliate makes a request to our stats API and can't parse it and you think that of me? no. i am the one who doesn't validate

lmao

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:44

opt: Oct 10, 2007

i write internal only services so i dont have to worry about any of this spergy poo poo hth

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:44

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

it's still important to use a good web service standard for your internal services so that any new internal services can crank up a client with the flick of a switch

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:48

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

fyi you aren't limited to soap if u use wsdl. it just describes what things your web service expects. this is 2013, u don't need to write the protocols of how ur program speaks to a web service in 2013.

what problems does providing ur own ButtClient solve that an automatically generated wsdl does not?

look, its a matter of separation of concerns. the people who write the service infrastructure can deal with it however they want. They can use wsdl if they want or whatever else tickles their fancy, and we just drop a library in our project without adding some wdsl code generator or whatever else into our already complex build system

its a perfectly valid division of labor and it have no downside over directly using wdsl because everything on both side is c++ anyway

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:49

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

i am the one who NAKs

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:50

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

it's still important to use a good web service standard for your internal services so that any new internal services can crank up a client with the flick of a switch

it's more important to be well-behaved when creating internal services, because if you create terrible ones, people can use the company directory to find you

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:52

Johnny Cache Hit: Oct 17, 2011

opt posted:

i write internal only services so i dont have to worry about anything except being the first to get fired because i bring almost nothing to the company, im basically obsolete and a cost sink, hth

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:53

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

prefect posted:

it's more important to be well-behaved when creating internal services, because if you create terrible ones, people can use the company directory to find you

not if ur the person who wrote the company directory lol owned

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:56

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

not if ur the person who wrote the company directory lol owned

in an internal application i used to work on, i had to query a secret mirror of the company directory setup by a consultant from a storage firm because the main directory was so useless

it was exactly the same data just you wouldn't get angry phone calls if your query rate went over 1/minute

the best part was that nobody had a contact for the "secret" mirror, and we all suspected it was running unsupported

# ? Sep 25, 2013 16:58

opt: Oct 10, 2007

prefect posted:

it's more important to be well-behaved when creating internal services, because if you create terrible ones, people can use the company directory to find you

Well yea but if you aren't using something that does all this poo poo automatically then lol

# ? Sep 25, 2013 17:01

opt: Oct 10, 2007

Johnny Cache Hit posted:

Idgi

# ? Sep 25, 2013 17:02

uG: Apr 23, 2003; by Ralp

some people think that their use of computers adds any sort of real value to society. these people are only fooling themselves

# ? Sep 25, 2013 17:20

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

so if your xml implementation has a DOM and you use the DOM and you choose the right interface you get ordered output

gotcha

clearly xs:sequence is an overrated choice in schemas. i should just assume all readers have chosen to take all my child elements as ordered because they hypothetically could

it's pretty loving fundamental property of a structured document format that your parser doesn't randomly shuffle the structure of your document when you try to read it

and xs:sequence doesn't do what you think it does. it says that your well-formed xml won't pass validation if all <name/> elements are not in front of every <address/> element for example, but it doesn't say that the <name/> elements are ordered in some way in relation to each other

because you get them in document order already

Edit: or I may be thinking the DTD here

Max Facetime fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 25, 2013

# ? Sep 25, 2013 18:57

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

it's still important to use a good web service standard for your internal services so that any new internal services can crank up a client with the flick of a switch

my standard is always guided by resume driven development

# ? Sep 25, 2013 18:59

double riveting: Jul 5, 2013; look at them go

Max Facetime posted:

it's pretty loving fundamental property of a structured document format that your parser doesn't randomly shuffle the structure of your document when you try to read it

and xs:sequence doesn't do what you think it does. it says that your well-formed xml won't pass validation if all <name/> elements are not in front of every <address/> element for example, but it doesn't say that the <name/> elements are ordered in some way in relation to each other

in fact, it appears to be so loving fundamental that the XML spec doesn't need to state it; at least i can't find it.
neither does the WXS spec seem to say whether the farts in the below example may be returned in any order by the processor.

code:

<complexType>
  <sequence>
    <element name="fart" maxOccurs="unbounded">
    <element name="poo poo">
  </sequence>
</complexType>

so somebody was saying something about JSON being poorly specified?
not to mention that an 8-page RFC is actually readable, in contrast to the convoluted mumbo-jumbo the W3C jerkoffs like to put out.

# ? Sep 25, 2013 20:28

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Shaggar posted:

yeah its the world outside p-langs where the tools are designed around doing it right so the laziest people can get it working. you really have to work at it to do xml wrong in java and expecially c#

(these were java and c# web services. they worked pretty hard)

# ? Sep 26, 2013 01:26

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Of course the elements are ordered. They're in document order. XML is a document standard, not a parser standard. It happens to be a relatively good document standard, but the answer to "what order do I get these elements?" is "whatever the parser does with them". Does the parser have a spec?

It's called separation of concerns and it's a pretty important part of software engineering, guys.

# ? Sep 26, 2013 01:32

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

Nomnom Cookie posted:

Of course the elements are ordered. They're in document order. XML is a document standard, not a parser standard. It happens to be a relatively good document standard, but the answer to "what order do I get these elements?" is "whatever the parser does with them". Does the parser have a spec?

It's called separation of concerns and it's a pretty important part of software engineering, guys.

nope because we googled "xml library for ruby" and grabbed the first one its github page has a realy nice readme tho

# ? Sep 26, 2013 02:32

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

Bloody posted:

nope because we googled "xml library for ruby" and grabbed the first one its github page has a realy nice readme tho

Nokogiri?

# ? Sep 26, 2013 02:44

double riveting: Jul 5, 2013; look at them go

Nomnom Cookie posted:

It's called separation of concerns and it's a pretty important part of software engineering, guys.

Actually, it's called semantics. What are the semantics of the example I posted? An unordered set of farts or an ordered sequence of farts? If the answer is "implementation-defined", where is this specified (the fact that it would be implementation-defined, that is)?

# ? Sep 26, 2013 02:52

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

gucci void main posted:

Nokogiri?

ugh what the gently caress

# ? Sep 26, 2013 02:53

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

double riveting posted:

Actually, it's called semantics. What are the semantics of the example I posted? An unordered set of farts or an ordered sequence of farts? If the answer is "implementation-defined", where is this specified (the fact that it would be implementation-defined, that is)?

The semantics are it's a document. You're asking what the parser will do with it.

# ? Sep 26, 2013 02:55

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

i have 3 versions of visual studio installed

cant wait for 2013 to come out

# ? Sep 26, 2013 02:57

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

I would have 5 but vc80 doesn't build anything remotely useful, I'm surprised Boost is only removing vc70 support:

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# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:05

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

tef posted:

(these were java and c# web services. they worked pretty hard)

# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:06

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

i would use c#, but that requires using windows.

# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:09

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Mono, it's used in production (ask how I know).

# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:11

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

Nomnom Cookie posted:

Mono, it's used in production (ask how I know).

how do u know

# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:12

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Another group is migrating away from it. Probably because it's poo poo. It's definitely poo poo but I'm just guessing that's the reason they're migrating.

# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:14

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

Nomnom Cookie posted:

Another group is migrating away from it. Probably because it's poo poo. It's definitely poo poo but I'm just guessing that's the reason they're migrating.

didn't have to tell me that but yeah.

# ? Sep 26, 2013 03:15