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Throatwarbler posted:Well the current minivan isn't too bad, or do you mean you're looking for a real "mini" minivan? Aren't they phasing out the Caravan/Town and Country without a replacement? And yeah the only US mfrs making "real" minivans (as an 80s person would understand it) are probably Mazda, Kia, and also maybe the Ford/Nissan commercial vans in their passenger variants. I'm tentatively defining the class as being car-based vehicles with sliding rear doors and three row seating that are actually smaller than a cargo van.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:55
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Throatwarbler posted:Well the current minivan isn't too bad, or do you mean you're looking for a real "mini" minivan? Well, both. I'm currently pretty excited about the new Transit Connect long-wheelbase passenger version. It's 'the right size' in my opinion and supposedly will be rated over 30mpg highway. It also has a torque-vectoring E-diff ala Focus ST which i think is pretty pimp for a minivan.  I like the current Caravan 'ok' but i'm more enthusiastic about 3500lb vans than 4500 lb vans, as a rule.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:59
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Cream_Filling posted:Aren't they phasing out the Caravan/Town and Country without a replacement? What does Mazda make that's a minivan? The 5 is waay too small and I could have sworn they stopped making the MPV years ago.
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Sep 27, 2013 01:13
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The Mazda5 is their minivan. They did manage to cram three rows into a stretched first-gen Mazda3.
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Sep 27, 2013 01:15
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Weinertron posted:What does Mazda make that's a minivan? The 5 is waay too small and I could have sworn they stopped making the MPV years ago. The Mazda 5 is actually longer and wider than the original Dodge Caravan.
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Sep 27, 2013 01:34
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Vigo327 posted:That is downright exciting to me. I don't have any reason to think this would actually happen, but the availability of cost-effective and emissions-compliant small diesels would give compact pickups the ability to justify their own existence vs full sizes since they could actually get fuel economy sufficiently better to offset their lower truck-stuff capabilities. As for the whole minivan discussion, wouldn't the Fiat 500XL be considered a minivan with the addition of sliding doors?
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Sep 27, 2013 02:41
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Skipopatomus posted:I was just about to post this only with my added comparison  
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Sep 27, 2013 02:54
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This looks like the kind of caricature of a contemporary truck you'd find in some tongue-in-cheek futuremovie like Demolition Man or something
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Sep 27, 2013 03:00
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Cream_Filling posted:Aren't they phasing out the Caravan/Town and Country without a replacement? The word is that they are phasing one of them out and only having one minivan nameplate, and it seemed likely that Dodge would be the one to go. PRobably not a huge deal because Dodge already has a 3 row vehicle with the Journey. But then again who knows, FIAT has said a lot of poo poo and basically nothing has happened.
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Sep 27, 2013 03:14
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Snowdens Secret posted:This looks like the kind of caricature of a contemporary truck you'd find in some tongue-in-cheek futuremovie like Demolition Man or something Full size trucks have been a cartoon ever since Dodge went with the big rig front end.
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Sep 27, 2013 03:25
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VikingSkull posted:Full size trucks have been a cartoon ever since Dodge went with the big rig front end. It'll get worse when someone decides to style their truck after a diesel locomotive; its the next logical step really.
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Sep 27, 2013 03:33
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Vigo327 posted:Well, both. I'm currently pretty excited about the new Transit Connect long-wheelbase passenger version. It's 'the right size' in my opinion and supposedly will be rated over 30mpg highway. It also has a torque-vectoring E-diff ala Focus ST which i think is pretty pimp for a minivan. holy crap that's big 
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Sep 27, 2013 03:50
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VikingSkull posted:Full size trucks have been a cartoon ever since Dodge went with the big rig front end.
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Sep 27, 2013 04:12
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Cream_Filling posted:The Mazda 5 is actually longer and wider than the original Dodge Caravan. I dont know if i believe the wider part. I currently own a short wheelbase 90 model and i definitely believe the longer part. However, the mazda5 has MASSIVELY less interior room than the early caravan. I wanted to like the mazda5 a lot, and i did styling-wise, but i would have liked it a lot better if they had kept the same proportion and look and scaled it up to the size of the last-gen MPV. That's why im kind of excited about the 7 passenger transit connect. It's big enough to have 7 people in it without 5 of them hating it, but it's much smaller than the massive 'minivans' like the current Odyssey. Tekne posted:According to Allpar, such a vehicle is in the pipeline, and is going to be built in their Toluca, Mexico plant. I'm guessing it'll have a VM I4, V6, or maybe both as options. The business case for a small truck is a lot better than a midsize at this point in time. Would you believe i used to be the #2 overall poster on Allpar forums? I moved away from it when i got into the performance side of things more, but maybe now since the future of dodge is not horribly bleak i should go back and read the news/gossip over there some more.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:27
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Throatwarbler posted:I'm not gonna lie, the new GM trucks all look pretty nice on the outside, especially the Sierra Denali. To a non American these things look loving huuuuge. In Australia we might see an occasional F250 or similar but the largest truck you'll see on an everyday basis is something like a Hilux.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:33
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Aargh posted:To a non American these things look loving huuuuge. In Australia we might see an occasional F250 or similar but the largest truck you'll see on an everyday basis is something like a Hilux. America isn't all like the movies, they're huge to us too.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:35
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pik_d posted:America isn't all like the movies, they're huge to us too. Is an F150 considered huge? It definitely is elsewhere in the world (even the latest Ranger is almost comically big although with how popular they are I'm sure well get used to it)
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Sep 27, 2013 05:41
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Tekne posted:According to Allpar, such a vehicle is in the pipeline, and is going to be built in their Toluca, Mexico plant. I'm guessing it'll have a VM I4, V6, or maybe both as options. The business case for a small truck is a lot better than a midsize at this point in time. It might be in the pipeline but there's no indication that it would be in US/Canada, since FIAT does a good business in Latin America. I really don't see much of a business case for a small Ram truck, simply because they sell lots of 1500s and for the most part would be competing with themselves. The case for Toyota and Nissan is slightly better because no one buys the Tundra or Titan. If you're OK with a Dodge and want a $15k truck then they would rather sell you a 2 year old 1500 and keep the residuals high. A FWD panel van would have some traction though and help with CAFE, I think there are plans to bring the Doblo over. dissss posted:Is an F150 considered huge? It definitely is elsewhere in the world (even the latest Ranger is almost comically big although with how popular they are I'm sure well get used to it) I think it would be, it's not as if North Americans don't also buy millions of Honda Civics every year as well so they know how big things are. I mean in Canada they buy more trucks per capita than the US, and yet gas prices are significantly higher, Canadians on average make less money and the 2nd or 3rd best selling vehicle after the F150 is the Elantra.
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Sep 27, 2013 06:06
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dissss posted:Is an F150 considered huge? It definitely is elsewhere in the world (even the latest Ranger is almost comically big although with how popular they are I'm sure well get used to it) I can't really speak for other people, but I would consider a modern F150 a huge truck, and I hear a lot of agreement whenever it gets brought up when talking cars with people. Although they're laughably called compact trucks, the size of pickup that I would consider the perfect size for all around light truck duty would be the Ranger before the last face-lift (before it went away completely in 2011) and the Jeep Comanche and/or J10. Since we're on the subject; while I know a lot of people love them, I absolutely abhor extended cabs. Truck cabs are meant to end right behind the front seats with maybe just enough room between the seat and the back of the cab to fit a shovel or flat toolbox. Extended cabs not only make trucks look hideous, like some sort of perverted experiment of industry that resulted in an amalgamation of a truck and van, but it also usually results in a truck with a reduced length bed. Bed lengths in pickups are already ridiculously short without idiots doing their damnedest to find ways of making them shorter.
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Sep 27, 2013 06:10
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The King of Swag posted:Since we're on the subject; while I know a lot of people love them, I absolutely abhor extended cabs. Truck cabs are meant to end right behind the front seats with maybe just enough room between the seat and the back of the cab to fit a shovel or flat toolbox. Extended cabs not only make trucks look hideous, like some sort of perverted experiment of industry that resulted in an amalgamation of a truck and van, but it also usually results in a truck with a reduced length bed. Bed lengths in pickups are already ridiculously short without idiots doing their damnedest to find ways of making them shorter. See, there's two different body styles I've heard called "extended cab". The newer ones, with 4 doors and more legroom in the back than a Rolls? Yeah, those are a bit ridiculous, although I'm sure they're very nice. However, as a tall person, I need the older style extended cab as a bare minimum, where there's 1-2 extra feet behind the front seats. Older Toyota (hilux) and Ford small pickups I literally cannot drive the single cab versions, because either there's no room for my legs or I'm sitting with my rear end halfway up the seat back with my neck on the roof in order to work the pedals (I'm not actually exaggerating). I really do need that little bit of extra seat adjustment. That said, I know the newer Rams at least you can get with a double cab and 8 foot bed on the 2500s.
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Sep 27, 2013 07:19
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This is how I've always thought of them Single cab:  Extra/super cab:  Double cab:  A lot of modern utes are double cab only (Navara, Amorok)
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Sep 27, 2013 07:54
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Throatwarbler posted:
It's a shame that 90% of the ones that I'll end up seeing will be Black, White or Silver. No one ever goes for the best color.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:15
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. Still aplies.
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Vigo327 posted:Well, both. I'm currently pretty excited about the new Transit Connect long-wheelbase passenger version. It's 'the right size' in my opinion and supposedly will be rated over 30mpg highway. It also has a torque-vectoring E-diff ala Focus ST which i think is pretty pimp for a minivan. Thats a standard 3'd row SUV setup, I dont get the point if its not a full bench back there.  
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Sep 27, 2013 08:32
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dissss posted:This is how I've always thought of them
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Sep 27, 2013 09:46
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My dad's full-bed-length 1987 GMC Sierra 3500 with a crew-cab still wins, hands down. (except for the fact that the 454 consumes enough fuel to power a small country, especially with its high idle issues, and the steering is so loose it's frightening to drive) atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 10:44
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Vigo327 posted:Well, both. I'm currently pretty excited about the new Transit Connect long-wheelbase passenger version. It's 'the right size' in my opinion and supposedly will be rated over 30mpg highway. It also has a torque-vectoring E-diff ala Focus ST which i think is pretty pimp for a minivan. On a recent trip with my family, the 7 of us rented a 2013 Town and Country, and my god it was NICE. Power everything, seats that folded on a second's notice, smooth and quiet ride, and 260HP. It's a drat good vehicle for hauling people.
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Sep 27, 2013 12:10
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AlmightyPants posted:It's a shame that 90% of the ones that I'll end up seeing will be Black, White or Silver. No one ever goes for the best color. Laguna Seca Blue is the best blue!
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Sep 27, 2013 13:58
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I took a HS trip to Italy and saw 1 suburban and my god it looked huge in that setting. It took up like a block's worth of parking spaces.
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Sep 27, 2013 14:36
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Xguard86 posted:I took a HS trip to Italy and saw 1 suburban and my god it looked huge in that setting. It took up like a block's worth of parking spaces. It's somewhat reminiscent of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSI8nP0m24M
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Sep 27, 2013 14:52
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Throatwarbler posted:A FWD panel van would have some traction though and help with CAFE, I think there are plans to bring the Doblo over. Behold! The Ram Promaster  The King of Swag posted:Since we're on the subject; while I know a lot of people love them, I absolutely abhor extended cabs. etc etc I really LIKE extended cabs, but when you get into the true 4dr double/crew cab stuff it becomes hit and miss for me. Generally what i think of as an extended cab (which is becoming rare) still has a 6.5' bed. D C posted:Thats a standard 3'd row SUV setup, I dont get the point if its not a full bench back there. angryhampster posted:On a recent trip with my family, the 7 of us rented a 2013 Town and Country, and my god it was NICE. Power everything, seats that folded on a second's notice, smooth and quiet ride, and 260HP. It's a drat good vehicle for hauling people. Preaching to the choir, my friend! I think there is definitely a place for VERY powerful, VERY roomy minivans that avg low 20s mpg at best. I am simply more enthusiastic about the regular powerful, regular roomy, 30+hwy mpg segment that is currently basically non-existent except the upcoming Transit Connect. The new transit connect will be pretty analogous to what a Grand Caravan was from 84-95, which was roomy despite being tiny by today's minivan standards.
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Sep 27, 2013 15:13
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I love the way those images always have lines from the text to the feature it describes, but throw in a bunch of features which don't really apply to any particular spot on the vehicle. They then just put in a line pointing at some random location on the vehicle. Best in class total cost of ownership (located on the dashboard).
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Sep 27, 2013 16:13
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Vigo327 posted:Behold! The Ram Promaster FIAT Doblo is already produced in Brazil for Latin American markets and also in Turkey (same as the Transit Connect) for EU, it wouldn't be too much trouble to bring it over to compete with the TC, if indeed there is really such a big market for these things.  
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Sep 27, 2013 16:17
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Vigo327 posted:I dont know if i believe the wider part. I currently own a short wheelbase 90 model and i definitely believe the longer part. However, the mazda5 has MASSIVELY less interior room than the early caravan. I wanted to like the mazda5 a lot, and i did styling-wise, but i would have liked it a lot better if they had kept the same proportion and look and scaled it up to the size of the last-gen MPV. That's why im kind of excited about the 7 passenger transit connect. It's big enough to have 7 people in it without 5 of them hating it, but it's much smaller than the massive 'minivans' like the current Odyssey.
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Sep 27, 2013 18:13
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Too bad it is just plain awful looking.
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Sep 27, 2013 19:34
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I wish I had a million dollars right now. An old Chevy dealer has hundreds of "brand new" cars from the 40's and 50's sitting in warehouses for decades, and they are up for auction. http://autos.aol.com/article/vintage-car-auction-will-sell-off-low-mileage-gems/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000006
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Sep 27, 2013 19:42
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Going back to the huge trucks, I just have a 2wd regular cab Ram, and one of my ex-gf's and my mom both hate it. It's hard to get into if you're a bit older or very short. It sits a few inches lower than a 4x4, too. People here know they are huge. Another misconception is that everyone here drives them, and don't need them. True to a point, a ton get sold as commuter vehicles. Where I live in NY, though, is filled with farms. Having a 2500HD to tow a horse trailer, or bring your boat to the Hudson River, or tow your dirt modified to OCFS is really handy. Americans really do have a use for them and they aren't some pillar of decadence like they are made out to be. Same goes for Canada, or anyplace with miles of wide open terrain, straight roads, and hard usage rural applications exist.
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Sep 27, 2013 21:02
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I bought a extended cab Tundra (seats 5, pretty normal but a little shorter seats in the back) with a 6ft bed and I get SO MUCH poo poo for it. I use it to haul motorcycles and dirt bikes every weekend, usually with 2-4 people riding. The back seat area makes a great place to keep the gear dry on rain days and change.  None of this excludes me from catching poo poo right left and center for having a large truck. I park it on far end of lots with as many open spaces around me as I can because I know its huge and its impolite to smash it in a small parking space next to everyone else yet I still get keyed all the time. Because I'm not completely made of money and I can't always use the civic if the lady is using it, I do have to drive it around town or commute occasionally in it and OH THE RAGE of some people. Look, if I could fill it with motorcycles and use it for its purpose every day of the week I totally would but sometimes it's a Wednesday and I need to get some groceries on the way home from work... I guess I could haul fridges or something full time to satisfy those people. I didn't even get the biggest engine available! Had the Tacoma received a refresh more recently (mainly in the drive train department), or there still been a Ranger sized truck I'd have happily bought one. Tacoma prices are so stupid that it just didn't make sense. If you are a person who needs a truck but doesn't need a gently caress off size train puller, the market here basically doesn't give a poo poo about you. FlerpNerpin fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 21:41
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I get the same poo poo, even though I drive my Daytona a grand total of 14 miles most days. I get it, I'm alone in a huge truck that gets 12mpg. I totally used half the fuel the soccer mom in the Prius used on her 4th trip to the mall this week, though. Stop giving me dirty looks! 55,000 miles in 8 years really isn't as bad as 100,000 miles in 3 years in a Civic, I don't think.
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Sep 27, 2013 21:44
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AI'ers should really never be held up as typical use cases for any class of automobile
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Sep 27, 2013 21:51
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VikingSkull posted:I get the same poo poo, even though I drive my Daytona a grand total of 14 miles most days. 100000 miles in 3 years? That's like regional sales rep mileage. And not a very good one either because he's putting in all that work and still hasn't got an audi. 
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Sep 27, 2013 21:54
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