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caberham posted:Yeah but you also majored in linguistics and studied Japanese for 3 years. I also never heard you use Mandarin in higher level conversations ever I think this deserves a  and quite possibly an 
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Sep 27, 2013 05:28
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Bloodnose posted:I went from knowing gently caress-all Chinese to reading comic books and talking politics in Mandarin in about 6 months. caberham posted:Yeah but you also majored in linguistics and studied Japanese for 3 years. I also never heard you use Mandarin in higher level conversations ever Dirty whore, went and copied me I see  Blood pact, check Linguistics major, check 3 years of Japanese, check quote:edit: I was gonna type I was basically pro prc but deleted it and added that chinaboo stuff but I just saw properk's post GET OUT OF MY BRAIN srsly though, my bloodpact was pretty awesome. 3 teachers (all linguistics phd), 3 tutors (all linguistics masters students), all to myself as the only student. Including the drat author of the textbook series personally teaching me for the last month because he wanted to use me as part of an acquisition study. The best part was getting bitched at for "thinking" in not-Chinese. Pro-PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 05:41
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LimburgLimbo posted:Wait if Bloodnose studied Japanese for a year then why did he keep, for a period, coming into the Japanese chat thread and complain about us using Japanese I did 4 semesters of Japanese in college but I've forgotten most of it. Now when I read Japanese, I read the kana all normal-like, but read kanji with Chinese readings and then guess from there. But I complain about people using Chinese here too. It's just cliquey and makes it difficult for illiterates to join our cool kids' club. As for my Mandarin, that's declined a ton since I moved to Hong Kong three years ago. I also dated a local girl for 20 months who would scold me for speaking Mandarin, watching anything in Mandarin, talking to a mainlander, mentioning a mainlander, or living in a Special Administrative Region of the PRC. Why did I put up with that for so long  But in the time right after I finished those six months in Beijing I was basically a Chinese genius and I wore changshan and quoted Confucius every couple of minutes. edit: I was gonna type I was basically pro prc but deleted it and added that chinaboo stuff but I just saw properk's post 
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Sep 27, 2013 05:41
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caberham posted:Bloodnose is still awesome. He writes better Cantonese than I do. Why doesn't anyone want to speak Mandarin with me Quoting for posterity; a HK'er complaining that he can't find enough mandarin speakers! For shame! When I use putonghua in class the local HK kids give me dirty looks, and the mainland guys start spazzing out with excitement.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:49
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Grand Fromage posted:Yea, the four ultra-hards they list are Arabic, Mandarin, Japanese, and Korean. Japanese usually wins as the hardest for English speakers because it has all the oddities of Korean plus you have to learn kanji to read. Japanese was easier for me than French or German. Two irregular verbs, no cases or genders, and pretty much all the grammar you need to know is embodied by a handful of particles and (IIRC) 14 verb endings. It's easier to read than Korean because kanji removes ambiguities, but doesn't comprise the entirety of the text like Chinese. It has all the ADVANTAGES of Korean, minus Korean's English-esque spelling bullshit, combined with the advantages of Chinese.
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Sep 27, 2013 06:11
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I found Chinese easier than French and some other languages I have toyed with, but this was in great part because of full-on no English speaking immersion I think. Additionally i can still speak Chinese and rebuild pretty quickly (working on characters again now), but other langauges are pretty much gone for some reason. In six months you should be able to have some very specific conversations in ok depth, but if the subject strays much... Well, it will suddenly be like they are speaking a foreign language. Get the tones and habits right from the beginning though. Record and listen to yourself, with something for comparison if at all possible. For instance get some stupid dialogue with pauses for the purpose of repeating and then record the whole process. Listen to it. (You may wish to be fairly drunk the first few times you do this.) You said you had two classes a week set up. This is just enough to be depressing. Take at least one class a day and as much additional study as you can get in for as long as you can stand it. If you can spend more time in class at the beginning that is better. Set up some longer classes at the weekend, etc. Forebear even passive English if possible. That includes reading and media to whatever extent possible. Find some things that simply require Chinese. (People will give you many creative suggestions for this I am sure.)
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Sep 27, 2013 06:25
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Thanks. I will speak to the Mandarin teacher here and see if she can up my lessons to every day. Is there any benefit to watching Mandarin movies with English subtitles? Could always smash through a couple of those a week too.
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Sep 27, 2013 07:31
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BadAstronaut posted:Is there any benefit to watching Mandarin movies with English subtitles? Could always smash through a couple of those a week too. That depends. Do you like slapstick and/or historical melodrama?
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Sep 27, 2013 07:35
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Arglebargle III posted:That depends. Do you like slapstick and/or historical melodrama? UPDATE: Teacher here can see me 4 or 5 times per week depending on her schedule, so I'm at minimum doubling my lessons.
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Sep 27, 2013 07:37
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I'm working through the Rosetta Stone mandarin and it's pretty solid for learning and practicing vocabulary. It kinda blows for grammar though.
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Sep 27, 2013 07:47
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BadAstronaut posted:Thanks. I will speak to the Mandarin teacher here and see if she can up my lessons to every day. There's more than a few good documentaries you could try this with, like Last Train Home. That's definitely worth watching regardless. While not a documentary, Riding Alone for Thousands of Miles is interesting too, if a bit hokey in places (Chinese cinema for you). There are some goons kicking around here with far more knowledge of Chinese film, like Rabelais D. They could probably point you toward some quality stuff.
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Sep 27, 2013 07:52
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Woodsy Owl posted:I'm working through the Rosetta Stone mandarin and it's pretty solid for learning and practicing vocabulary. It kinda blows for grammar though. Cool thing is if I have something to improve my vocabulary, I can always get grammar and tonal pronunciation help in my lessons four times a week - plus I work in an office with like 50 people who I can embarass myself in front of while they laugh and mock and eventually correct me.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:11
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There's definitely a benefit to watching as much stuff in Mandarin as you possibly can. I got into Chinese film back in 2001 when I was still in university and I reckon it helped me a poo poo ton. TV basically sucks - I mean, all the dramas are absolute shite and the acting is just gobsmackingly terrible, but the panel shows and popularity contests are OK for passing the time - The Voice of China 中国好声音 on ZJTV 浙江卫视, I think it's Jiangsu TV that has the popular 'pick a new boyfriend' show with hilariously dolled-up floozies, it's called 非诚勿扰, I believe. Movies are better. But the docs are kinda heavy going and lots of the actual 'quality cinema' is artsy stuff. I suggest you find yourself a box set of Stephen Chow 周星驰 DVDs, should be easy enough in any corner DVD shop (do they still have those!?), they'll have subtitles and mandarin audio too. The guy who dubs Stephen Chow (HK actor) into Mandarin has a better voice than Chow does himself, so mandarin is actually preferred when watching the Chowster. He has so many good films there's no point in going over them all, but some gems are: 食神 The God of Cookery (traditional riches to rags to kung fu enlightenment tale of a guy who cooks pissing shrimp balls that bounce) 少林足球 Shaolin Soccer (team of kung fu monks who kick rear end at football; the team they play at the end of the tournament is called 'Evil Team' - best sports film ever? Yep!) 国产凌凌漆 From Beijing With Love (James Bond spoof; Chow is a philandering pork vendor that can kill house flies with throwing knives; also his shoe doubles as an electric razor - or it a blow dryer?) 西游记 (two films, A Chinese Odyssey parts 1 & 2), generally considered to be Chow's best films, but you may need some knowledge of A Journey to the West to get the most out of these) 喜剧之王 The King of Comedy (I still sometimes break into the 我开奔驰。你挖鼻屎 'I drive a Mercedes; you're just picking your nose' song) Anyone else a fan of Chow?
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Sep 27, 2013 08:25
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I literally can't believe you just said the Mandarin dubs of Stephen Chow movies are better. 
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Sep 27, 2013 08:28
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Wait, that's not an objective fact?!?
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Sep 27, 2013 08:29
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If Mandarin is the dub, what is the original language?
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Sep 27, 2013 08:31
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Get your numbers down, it's very useful. 一，二，三，四，五, 六，七，八，九，十。Write each character 20 times into a copy book and have it in your muscle memory. You don't want to be that clueless guy who can't read any numbers. I don't even care if you can't say hello, how are you? in Mandarin. Don't be that dude who spent 3 months of private tutoring but still can't read/write any numbers. You can carry a calculator with you wherever you go, but.... Anyways, report to the Chinese language thread and just ask a bajillion questions like you do here and you will be in good shape. MeramJert posted:I literally can't believe you just said the Mandarin dubs of Stephen Chow movies are better.  Rabelais D posted:Wait, that's not an objective fact?!?  And I thought, man I haven't seen this goon for ages, let's hang out. MeramJert, please come to HK and take his place, thanks in advance.Rabelais D posted:Cantonese, which is just some crappy dialect of the glorious standard language anyway.  I'm going to suffer a heart attack.
caberham fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 08:32
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Cantonese, which is just some crappy dialect of the glorious standard language anyway.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:32
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caberham posted:report to the Chinese language thread and just ask a bajillion questions like you do here Oh please, you exaggerate sir. I doubt I've asked even half a bajillion questions at the outside most. Rabelais D posted:Cantonese, which is just some crappy dialect of the glorious standard language anyway. Yes, I have heard that as far as languages go, it's widely considered one of the worst.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:40
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caberham posted:
Well, to become good at (Mandarin) Chinese, you need to think like the (mainland Han) Chinese...
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Sep 27, 2013 08:49
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caberham posted:Get your numbers down, it's very useful. 一，二，三，四，五, 六，七，八，九，十。Write each character 20 times into a copy book and have it in your muscle memory. You don't want to be that clueless guy who can't read any numbers. I don't even care if you can't say hello, how are you? in Mandarin. Pretty much the first characters I learned after 中, 国, 美, and 人, heh. Then I discovered that pretty much everywhere you go in China numbers are in Arabic form anyway.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:52
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blinkyzero posted:Then I discovered that pretty much everywhere you go in China numbers are in Arabic form anyway. The stairwells of some old buildings in Hong Kong will be labeled like 7/F in Arabic but then 八樓 (eighth floor) in Chinese. It was explained to me this happens because Chinese doesn't have a G floor. WELL THEN WHY DOES ENGLISH HAVE ONE? I get very mad about British-style floor numbering in Hong Kong.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:58
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My village house is listed as 1/f, 2/f, 3/f with no Ground floor while every other high rise has a G floor. hosed up imo
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Sep 27, 2013 09:06
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I heard Cantonese is just like Mandarin but louder, faster, and whinier? C/D
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Sep 27, 2013 09:16
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caberham posted:Anyways, report to the Chinese language thread and just ask a bajillion questions like you do here and you will be in good shape. Is that thread any good? I've gone over there three different times, wanting to discuss ancient Chinese idioms and expressions that Chinese has that other languages don't and gotten pretty much nothing at all for answers. One guy did suggest I had alternate motives for it, like homework for some class or something. I guess that's what I get for expressing an interest in the language. Anyway, bottom line, that thread left me with a ridiculous sour taste in my mouth and I just ask my Chinese friends for help or suggestions.
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Sep 27, 2013 09:19
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synertia posted:My village house is listed as 1/f, 2/f, 3/f with no Ground floor while every other high rise has a G floor. hosed up imo Why are the floors numbered at all? Is the house subdivided? peanut posted:I heard Cantonese is just like Mandarin but louder, faster, and whinier? C/D
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Sep 27, 2013 09:21
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goldboilermark posted:Anyway, bottom line, that thread left me with a ridiculous sour taste in my mouth That is just the aftertaste from drinking the north west wind.
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Sep 27, 2013 09:25
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Leave TV/radio/stream on running in Mandarin. Put up characters all over your flat, particularly places like your fridge and doors, but really all around. Cover your fridge with food characters next to pictures of the food, for instance. Watching several movies a week is great passive learning, but of course passive learning only does so much. Run patterns before you go to sleep. Lots and lots of patterns right before you sleep. Develop a habit of working on characters first thing in the morning instead of reading a newspaper or (cough) forum. You will know this is working when you begin to dream in the language or encounter the language in your dreams. All the ordered music stuff (e.g. Bach, well tempered clavier, Glenn Gould is amazing anyway) works to some extent as well (as does hypnotism) though not exactly in a direct way. If this is beginning to sound like you are some sort of eccentric batshit crazy person then you are going in the right direction. Oh... Chinese games in Chinese of course. My era was actually coins in a machine video games in gaming joints so I am not sure now about which games. People must have recommendations though. Not from your flat though. Go find the net cafe with at least one giant room of compiters hidden away on the second or third floor of some building near you. For French I played a poo poo ton of FPS on LANs in cafe's. This had the advantage of also meeting a bunch people who had no interest in speaking English with me and used all sorts of nifty street language to learn. If you are any good at the game it also cuts through all sorts of otherwise relatively impermeable cultural stuff. I did this in Turkey as well. Same people tend to play at the same cafe during the same time of day, so you get to know them. Sports are good for this too if you play any. I used football (soccer) in both France and Turkey (when my knees still worked). Initially in China I used Taiji and Chan in a similar way, but back them almost no one spoke English anyway. Sogol fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 09:28
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I was under the impression that I should focus all my energy into learning to speak the language before I even try learning to read? VVV  I was trying to reach a bajillion questions in this thread. Thanks a lot, guy.
BadAstronaut fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 09:34
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Just go to the language thread.
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Sep 27, 2013 09:37
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^^^that. One more thing. Talk to yourself, in your head, in Chinese, all the time like a little kid. This means you have to see the world around you. 'That is blue. She is wearing a blue sweater. I like blue. Blue is like the sky (most places outside of Chinese cities)’.
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Sep 27, 2013 09:44
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Arglebargle III posted:Bar street. Every night. And I think you mean THE MOUNTAIN. I never went on the Ferris wheel. Too Soviet. So I got out of going to the zoo (I think because its raining a lil), and we went downtown to the big pedestrian mall. I dunno how long its been since you were here, but its*all* torn up because they are building four subway lines at once. There is a cityblock wide ~20 story deep pit where that papajohns used to be, kattykorner to the walmart. And then a massive trench right up the mall. Would be really hard to do that kind of project in the states these days, but here they are just "gently caress your businesses, we're building a subway. All the subways. At once." Pretty impressive. THE MOUNTAIN, hehe. The grandparents were all excited because the views were gonna be awesome at the top, and then we get up there and of course the visibility is like 200 feet. They were all 
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Sep 27, 2013 09:49
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Bloodnose posted:The stairwells of some old buildings in Hong Kong will be labeled like 7/F in Arabic but then 八樓 (eighth floor) in Chinese. It was explained to me this happens because Chinese doesn't have a G floor. My hotel in London a couple weeks ago numbered the floors: G, 2, 3, 4
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Sep 27, 2013 09:53
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Bloodnose posted:Why are the floors numbered at all? Is the house subdivided? Yes most of them are unless you want to pay upwards of 18k a month mr. fancy pants
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Sep 27, 2013 09:55
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That is the exact number I paid for my place in Hung Hom 
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Sep 27, 2013 10:00
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Baddog posted:So I got out of going to the zoo (I think because its raining a lil), and we went downtown to the big pedestrian mall. I dunno how long its been since you were here, but its*all* torn up because they are building four subway lines at once. There is a cityblock wide ~20 story deep pit where that papajohns used to be, kattykorner to the walmart. And then a massive trench right up the mall. Would be really hard to do that kind of project in the states these days, but here they are just "gently caress your businesses, we're building a subway. All the subways. At once." Pretty impressive. They started tearing up Walking Street (every city has one of these) in the last months of me living there. Not surprised to hear it's all a huge pit now, but surely somehow they must have accommodated the Laodong street underpass? It's a pity because Changsha's walking street was actually pretty great before all the construction. The statues and street-level shops/restaurants and constant little things happening made it a place you would actually go to just to see what was up. In contrast Chengdu's Walking Street is pretty soulless with just mall front after mall front. In Changsha the malls were all tucked away directly adjacent to but not actually fronting onto the main thoroughfare. It was nice.
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Sep 27, 2013 10:06
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FearCotton posted:So yeah, zoos = sadness.
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Sep 27, 2013 10:15
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Chinese zoos: imagine going on a tour of Auschwitz except there are still prisoners there, and the visitors are throwing poo poo at them whilst laughing. China: Man's inhumanity to EVERYTHING
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Sep 27, 2013 10:29
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I wonder what the average Chinese tour to Auschwitz looks like.
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Sep 27, 2013 10:57
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I read about one in one of those ever so common "Chinese tourists are terrible" articles. Pretty much what you would expect. Disrespectful boisterousness, smiley peace sign pictures in front of furnaces and gas chambers, etc
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Sep 27, 2013 11:16
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