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Counterpoint, Exerelin is really fun since it adds depth to the game outside of "badass spaceship battles ad infinitum". You can only get so much momentum out of pretty lasers and explosions. Being able to carve out my own little empire is what made Mount and Blade so fun. Heck, early on, the mods that let you do that worked about the same. So hopefully the mod scene continues to get more popular and someone builds on what's present there a bit more.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:16
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Could one of you articulate why Exerelin is (not) bad and dumb? I got Starsector a few days back and have started to mod it, but don't want to jump through a bunch of hoops to get everything functioning harmoniously if it's not really worth it.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:43
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It's just pretty tedious to play compared to installing a bunch of mods without it.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:45
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jBrereton posted:Could one of you articulate why Exerelin is (not) bad and dumb?
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Sep 26, 2013 22:12
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The idea behind it is great, but right now, it's an unfun mess you shouldn't bother with because it breaks everything and poops on your front porch. For those who haven't installed it, you start out in the dick-end of a system (for the love of god don't make a system bigger than "small"), get to spend a minute flying with the shift key held down to a station to capture it, and then you're left with your starting frigate, your starter creds, but there are no ships to buy (your faction builds them slowly and randomly, so a 190000 credit carrier did me jack when what I really needed was a freighter and some frigates), a prayer your faction's AI isn't pants-on-head retarded and can get its poo poo together BUT WAIT the enemy is already building fleets with four or five battlecruisers leading them, and I think I stopped playing then.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:22
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Archonex posted:Counterpoint, Exerelin is really fun since it adds depth to the game outside of "badass spaceship battles ad infinitum". You can only get so much momentum out of pretty lasers and explosions. It would be really cool if it actually functioned like this, and I really like the idea, but the way it plays out now is you just sit around holding the shift key for about 70% of the time you play. It needs like a solid month of dev time adding features and fixing that you can't mine anything and making stations actually do anything but just spawn random fleets that mill around or mine asteroids so that the station can spawn more fleets. It's about exactly the same as the base game except it completely removes the ability for you to easily buy ships that aren't of the faction you choose at chargen and you also get 1000 credits per week. It also takes waaaaay longer for fleets to actually be around for you to fight so if you pick a poorly thought out starting ship that has like, 10 cargo max (re: all of the hiigaran ones, most of the bushi ones, etc) you can easily gently caress yourself to the point where your weekly wages barely cover the supplies necessary to keep you floating in one spot, and you are tethered to your starting station for 10 supply days in any direction.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:36
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Uh, how do I sell a specific number of things at once? Shift-clicking for one at a time is tedious.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:46
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eXXon posted:Uh, how do I sell a specific number of things at once? Shift-clicking for one at a time is tedious. Hold shift and you can drag out the amount you want to buy/sell.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:48
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If you're playing with kadur, remember to bring your freighters and tankers into battle, they'll probably mount more missles than anything else in your fleet and can destroy weak rear end poo poo like dominator cruisers in a single, 3 ship volley of 40 missles.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:49
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The Good Professor posted:Or specific descriptions of what is overpowered about them/which ones are overpowered? I was trying for long-reload alpha strike/ranged support weapons and aiming for balance parity with vanilla, so if you think they're horribly out of equilibrium I'd like to know why.  Double the DPS, 20% more range, effectively 50% more ammo - tradeoffs are 50% more flux and accuracy is only pinpoint instead of laser-sharp... all for 1 OrdPoint cheaper. I mean, i love the twinned railguns, but they most definitely are not at parity with vanilla.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:19
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Ceebees posted:
Counterpoint is the flux per second. High fps on Kadur ships isn't a small thing to overlook.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:32
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Ceebees posted:
That DPS figure is ignoring the 200 EMP damage per shot. Edit: oh he removed the double damage to shields. Well that's not great for a kinetic weapon anymore since kinetic sucks against armor.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:32
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Yeah, the twinned heavy railguns seem to be the biggest offender. I'm dropping their damage, turn rate, and range all a little for the next update, hopefully that will bring them a little more in line. Some similarly minor weapon nerfs in the pipeline for other stuff, too. Interesting thing I've noticed in Vanilla: For small ballistics, kinetic damage is clearly dominant. From the dual light machine gun to the dual autocannon to the light needler, you have plenty of options and they deal higher DPS than any of the HE choices. In medium, the reverse is true -- you have Arbalests and Heavy Autocannons at the low end but at the high end of the OP scale the Heavy Mauler clearly outclasses any of the Kinetic weapons, at least in my opinion. Its real competition, the Hypervelocity Driver, is less of a kinetic weapon and more of a long-ranged EMP. The Heavy Needler seems honestly overcosted, OP-wise, for what it is. This is what gave rise to the twinned heavy railgun being so overpowered, I think. My original intention was for the heavy railgun to be a sidegrade from the light needler, and for the twinned assault coilgun to be a sidegrade from the heavy mauler, and then for there to be high explosive/kinetic "variants" of each, respectively. The problem being that the damage types aren't valued equally, and their value seems to change across weapon sizes, which threw me. Sorry, that got a little long-winded. 
Vayra fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 00:57
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It's a little sad, too, because the heavy needler is the ideal for me of "projectile death" weapons, overwhelming them with a hail of lead 
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Sep 27, 2013 01:00
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I haven't played this since back when it was still going by Starfarer and was at version 0.3a or something like that. How developed is the campaign portion of the game nowadays?
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Sep 27, 2013 03:15
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Two starsystems instead of one, basically nothing.
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Sep 27, 2013 04:18
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The other issue with Twin Railguns is that they have attributes that combine together to make them ridiculously powerful in ways that don't necessarily appear on paper. Burst damage is, in general, more powerful than similar amounts of sustained DPS, because it means you can just unload onto something and blow them the gently caress up before they really get to start their fight and you only need a momentary opportunity to do your damage. There's a reason that most high-alpha weapons in vanilla have substantial limitations; AM Blasters have terrible range and monstrous flux inefficiency, missiles basically need your target to already be set up to connect with anything approaching reliability and have sharply limited ammunition(exception: VLRMs  ), and burst weapons in general often suffer from mediocre projectile speeds and high OP costs compared to other weapons in their class, like the Plasma Cannons.Twin Railguns have excellent burst damage with no downside on top of a bunch of other soft advantages. They're very accurate, turn almost like PD weapons, have phenomenal range, and most importantly, they have an absurdly fast projectile. High alpha with fast projectiles on top of good range means any ship using them has a 1200 meter Get hosed Frigates zone, which is hugely overpowered for something that is just an ordinary medium mount weapon. It also means they're viciously difficult to play against in general because the target has no opportunity to react against a huge burst of incoming kinetic damage. If you're at high flux and you ever raise your shields with Railguns on the field, you're going to get your rear end overloaded in a heartbeat. For reference, a Falchion destroyer with a pair of Dual Railguns will bring a standard AI controlled Hammerhead to the brink of overloading in ~two volleys (slightly over a second after starting the fight). Then you dump a tornado of incredibly responsive LRMs at him and if he even thinks about trying to raise his shields about it then you blap him again and he's just hosed. That is way, way too much manhandling for an even-weight fight.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:21
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This is just my two cents, and I'm not the world's best guy for game balance, but I'd rather see a happy middle ground between the Dual Railgun getting its points increased and its stats nerfed. Rather than just nerf it severely, which is what you seemed to imply in your last post, Professor, and again this is just me, I'd rather it was only moderately nerfed and made 2-3 OP more expensive. I really -like- having Ballistic weapons with good projectile speeds and I think it makes sense that a faction that's been honing ranged warfare due to having shite shielding and maneuver so they suck at close quarters having developed faster traveling projectiles makes sense. So I'd love it if that could remain the same at least. Cause yeah the Hyper Velocity Driver has slower projectile, but it's also shorter ranged, and some of the Large Ballistic weapons the Kadur get have really long range, fitting with their military doctrine. If you nerf the speed of their projectiles down, then it becomes increasingly hard to hit at range against anything with a modicum of speed or maneuverability because of the travel time, and unlike missiles they can't correct their course once fired.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:44
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Okay, what the hell is with the pirate plunder fleet? I destroyed their destroyers and most of their frigates in the first combat with it. Then they mothballed all of their fighter and bomber wings and a few frigates. All they have left is four freighters, but whenever I enter combat with them, they leave almost as soon as my ship leave the burn stage, so I don't even get a chance to see them let alone fight them. Then for some reason the dialog options keep saying that their fleet is aggressive and looking for combat even though they keep retreating. Eventually I just ran out of CR and supplies and they happily went back on their way. The gently caress is that?
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Sep 27, 2013 07:45
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That is a bug that has been addressed in the upcoming 6.1 version where freighters wont engage even though they are supposed to. In the mean time, just choose harry over and over till they are at 0 CR. You will have to chase down the fleet over and over though. This should also prevent the mothballed ships from activating as well. The large number of mothballed ships in the plunder fleets are caused by the maximum fleet size value being much smaller than the minimum mandatory ship spawns of the plunder fleet. The spawn function has a whole list of hulls/variants with a minimum and maximum individual number but on average, the spawned fleet almost triples the 200 value allotment.
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Sep 27, 2013 08:48
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Trying out Exerelin for the first time and so far I like it, but I cannot figure out for the life of me how to capture an enemy station. I got the Atlas and a troop transport with about 600 marines and when I can get my ship to stay over the enemy station long enough it just says "x marines lost". Do I need to be bringing more than that or just stick on the thing a bunch of times til it's worn down?.
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Sep 27, 2013 09:13
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:
Kharak is burning...
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Sep 27, 2013 09:18
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Leif. posted:Kharak is burning... Hiigaran mod trip report: You need to buy the badges at Angel Moon station ASAP ($30k => $120k => $600k), otherwise the supply convoy will make them disappear. Currently the supply convoy stops supplying Hiigaran weapons after a while - just crew, supplies and fuel. It's annoying but not game breaking. The sustained beam weapons are pretty brutal for their OP cost and flux. In general the energy and missile weapons from the mod are nicer than the vanilla counterparts (mostly more ammo with missles) but not overwhelmingy better. The small flak cannon is a bit much mainly because of it's range, but it produces a ton of flux. Most of the Hiigaran ships are pretty nice - especially the destroyers and frigates. While their stats are good they tend to not to have omni hardpoints or mixed types of hardpoints. Some of the ships have a ridiculous built-in beam weapon with melts everything, except the Paragon. It just bounces of the Paragon's shields. The fighters range from brutal to insane (Blaze interceptors melt anything without shields very quickly). Favourite ship is the Vaahrok gunship and the Faal-Corum drone ship is pretty neat. Definitely worth adding in, even if it's just to blow up some different ships. Better than the Gedune mod in my mind.
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Sep 27, 2013 09:57
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While not technically a Hiigaran spacecraft, I do miss the Ion Array Frigate. I hope at some point there are possible ship animations for activating ship subsystems. Maybe there is, now!
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Sep 27, 2013 10:57
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The Hiigaran ships are pretty lacklustre but if you pair the hiigaran beam weapons to a neutrino hull, then that becomes game breaking. An Unsung (Neutrino Battleship) with its 6 large universals populated with large Sustained Ion Beams will cut through other capital ships in seconds from off screen. Same goes with Kadur Lance and Francisca VLRMS on a Neutrino Vice hull. Too many mod authors balance their weapons according to the hulls as opposed to balancing Flux/DPS/Ammo/OP. Its fine though as you can simply avoid making the game breaking variant but after using Hiigaran beams and Kadur missiles, all other 'vanilla balanced' weapons in the game just feel absolutely puny. Bell_ posted:While not technically a Hiigaran spacecraft, I do miss the Ion Array Frigate. I hope at some point there are possible ship animations for activating ship subsystems. Maybe there is, now! There are animation possibilities but it'd be very clumsy to add in. Essentially you could make the animation be a weapon sprite that does something on the recoil animation, overlapping the ship model. Otherwise, you can do glow effects. The Ion Array Frigate is probably possible as a forward facing, 0 arc mount on the back of the ship with a comically oversized weapon sprite. Aenslaed fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 10:58
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Bell_ posted:While not technically a Hiigaran spacecraft, I do miss the Ion Array Frigate. I hope at some point there are possible ship animations for activating ship subsystems. Maybe there is, now!
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Sep 27, 2013 11:21
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Aenslaed posted:That is a bug that has been addressed in the upcoming 6.1 version where freighters wont engage even though they are supposed to. In the mean time, just choose harry over and over till they are at 0 CR. You will have to chase down the fleet over and over though. This should also prevent the mothballed ships from activating as well. I'll have to check again but I don't recall being given the option to harry them - it kept giving me dialog options as if they hadn't lost the battle and weren't trying to flee.
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Sep 27, 2013 16:04
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eXXon posted:I'll have to check again but I don't recall being given the option to harry them - it kept giving me dialog options as if they hadn't lost the battle and weren't trying to flee. If it's just the freighters trying to engage you, you can send out a single low CR/deployment frigate or a fighter wing - they'll retreat right away, then you can just ESC out and then Harry them. Repeat that every time they come around for another engagement, and when they try to disengage you can send out your remaining frigates and fighters. They won't be able to put up any sort of fight at that point because none of them will be combat ready.
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Sep 27, 2013 16:36
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Anyone that got the Kadur theocracy to work properly with Exerelin? I can start a new game and fight the Kadur etc, but I constantly get corrupted saves. Could someone who got it to work upload the ExerelinData.java file so I can compare it with mine? Also, I used a text editor to change it, that is all that would be needed right?
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Sep 27, 2013 16:43
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Retro42 posted:Counterpoint is the flux per second. High fps on Kadur ships isn't a small thing to overlook. But given that it's a similar value of flux:damage thats marginally less of an issue. My problem with the Kadur weapons is that their range is just flat out better and the damage per shot is better (this is an issue because it means you can just instagib things as soon as they drop their shield the like) and while the flux per shot is higher, in terms of flux efficiency they're similar to the vanilla ones which means if you've got two ships with the same capacity for flux, the kadur weapons are flat out better because they boast higher ranges and higher accuracy but still putting out the same damage over time as the stock weapons will. Things I would suggest to fix the kadur ballistic weapons: 1. Make them track MUCH slower. The accuracy is fine and the range is fine if they have an obvious downside like not being able to travesrse fast enough to hit things reliably in knife fight range. Currently you can just slam as many railguns or coilguns onto a ship as you can fit and you can reliably shoot down entire flights of interceptors and bombers when they get in range. 2. Make the flux:damage ratio lower if you don't want to do that. Example would be to make the dual railgun flux/second more like 350-400, same with the coilguns. This makes them feel more like alpha strike weapons instead of the "better than the stock stuff" catagory that they fit into now. 3. Lower the ammo by like 2/3rds. They have way to much ammo.
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Sep 27, 2013 17:01
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Zudgemud posted:Anyone that got the Kadur theocracy to work properly with Exerelin? I can start a new game and fight the Kadur etc, but I constantly get corrupted saves. It's been reported in both mods threads that they aren't compatible yet, as it does make for corrupted saves.
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Sep 27, 2013 17:03
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  Blackrock for 0.6a is coming.Aiming to have it out this weekend
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Sep 27, 2013 17:22
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:
Yesssssssssssssss. Looking forward to stomping with the new capital. 
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Sep 27, 2013 17:32
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Are those huge triple barrel cannons from your mod? Cause I need them in my life.
Insert name here fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 17:38
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Everything in the gif except for the Lasher is from my mod. Why is every single gif we have of this game so far about some poor frigate getting hypermurdered? 
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Sep 27, 2013 17:43
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Everything in the gif except for the Lasher is from my mod. I have an neutrino battleship with 6 neutron lances? I can make a gif of an Onslaught getting hypermurdered if youd like?
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Sep 27, 2013 18:49
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Drone_Fragger posted:But given that it's a similar value of flux:damage thats marginally less of an issue. My problem with the Kadur weapons is that their range is just flat out better and the damage per shot is better (this is an issue because it means you can just instagib things as soon as they drop their shield the like) and while the flux per shot is higher, in terms of flux efficiency they're similar to the vanilla ones which means if you've got two ships with the same capacity for flux, the kadur weapons are flat out better because they boast higher ranges and higher accuracy but still putting out the same damage over time as the stock weapons will. The slower tracking is already in for the next update, have no fear. I'm cutting the small non-PD ballistics turn rates verbatim in half, and the medium ones even more than that. I might yet put in the other things you suggested as well, though those would probably be smaller changes. As for it corrupting Exerelin saves, I have no idea what's causing that  If anyone here has a working knowledge of Javascript I'd love it if they could take a look and try to figure it out, because bugfixing beyond the simplest "oh, it says there's a problem with this specific thing right here" is beyond my meager capabilities.How are you guys making .gifs? Just mashing the screenshot key, or..?
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Sep 27, 2013 19:45
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The Good Professor posted:How are you guys making .gifs? Just mashing the screenshot key, or..?
 Otherwise I'd have totally made a gif of me blowing up an enemy Battlecruiser or Battleship (can't remember which) that was running and combat ineffective and having it take out my full health destroyer in the explosion.
Insert name here fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 19:52
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:
Oh god.  There goes my productivity for the next few weeks.
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Sep 27, 2013 20:18
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Why is every single gif we have of this game so far about some poor frigate getting hypermurdered? Because the opposite, watching a Tempest slowly kite and whittle down an Onslaught, would probably take five minutes or more?
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Sep 27, 2013 20:37
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