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So Japan is getting a seafaring bonus too now? I like that. The real impressive thing here is that being culturally dominant on other nations lets you conquer them more easily. That's actually pretty goddamn cool, it means that I can play Napoleon as he was intended to be: the warrior-artist! Yeaaaah! It also means that cultural victory as Autocracy just got a lot sweeter too, especially with the boost to Futurism. Germany becoming an industrial powerhouse the more trade routes they've got is pretty fascinating too. Landsnekts being purchaseable for anyone who uses Commerce...fitting, since they were mercenaries. This should mean that Venice and other trader-civs will have a lot of them! EDIT: Diplomacy/Espionage Familiar: Just 1 turn to Establish Surveillance in influenced civ's cities Popular: Surveillance boost (from above) plus Spies operate at an effective rank 1 level higher than actual rank in influenced civ's allied city states Influential: Surveillance boost (from above) plus Spies operate at an effective rank 1 levels higher than actual rank in influenced civ's cities and allied city states Dominant: Surveillance boost (from above) plus Spies operate at an effective rank 2 levels higher than actual rank in influenced civ's cities and allied city states Daaaamn, that's wonderful, spies get better with more cultural dominance too? LOVE IT. Speedball fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 20:26
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Celestatiune posted:I really wish they'd take the time to write Civ-specific dialogues for becoming influential with them, like when you wipe them out or when they've decided to group up and declare war on you just because you went and conquered half the planet. They spent all this time on the new culture mechanic and the stupid pop music and blue jeans thing just feels so unsatisfying. Yeah I agree. The Pop Music thing doesn't bother me since Pop music is defined by what's popular. If in this alternate reality Babylonian Akkadian Metal was a huge fad, that'd be "Pop Music" but the blue jeans thing...yeah it isn't as general other than as a generic "mass produced" concept, and even then I think they could do better. Could it be modded? Probably not since it's a generic message.
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Oct 1, 2013 20:28
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Also no changes to the expansion AI, so I still fully expect them to poo poo out insane numbers of totally useless cities in the arctic or across one tile islands.
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Oct 1, 2013 20:32
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Also no changes to the expansion AI, so I still fully expect them to poo poo out insane numbers of totally useless cities in the arctic or across one tile islands. Pretty sure that's what this is referencing: quote:Changed MINIMUM_SETTLE_FERTILITY to 20000, up from 5000 to keep AI civs from settling worthless plots. Added some logging code to track plot values.
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Oct 1, 2013 20:34
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Also no changes to the expansion AI, so I still fully expect them to poo poo out insane numbers of totally useless cities in the arctic or across one tile islands. This seemed relevant in the patch notes, is that not the case? quote:Changed MINIMUM_SETTLE_FERTILITY to 20000, up from 5000 to keep AI civs from settling worthless plots. Added some logging code to track plot values.
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Oct 1, 2013 20:34
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... Sorry. Why was that under Great Admiral AI? Oh well, I'm happy for that, at least.
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Oct 1, 2013 20:42
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Eric the Mauve posted:At this point you kind of wonder why they bothered putting America in the game. It's easily the worst civ in the game--not even in a "well, someone has to be the worst" sense but in a "wow, this civ is horrible" sense--and Firaxis isn't interested in doing anything about it. Eh. Geight posted:Since these are beta notes does that imply that they aren't the final draft and subject to change? I'd be surprised if they went another patch without doing anything for America since I could've sworn they explicitly mentioned them. They didn't document it in the notes, but the minuteman now gets points toward golden ages from victories in addition to its current promotions of ignoring terrain cost, drill 1, and +1 sight. Very good unit now, in my opinion. Once you get minutemen, you can war hard enough to get your economy into a position to extend the war; maybe even extend it enough to expand your empire from sea to sea. I've always liked America. I think people give it a bad wrap. They have a passive war bonus with their extra sight; and their UUs are good, spread out perfectly, and on useful tech paths. Other civs may excel at war more for short periods, but I believe that America has the best average war score if you divide it over the entire game. Edit: Also, the B17 never goes obsolete. It upgrades to a stealth bomber, but even once the stealth bomber is available, you can still build B17s, and upgrade them to give your new stealth bomber the B17's siege promotion. Don't remember if the B17's evasion promotion adds to the stealth's at all though. The Human Crouton fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 21:20
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The Human Crouton posted:They didn't document it in the notes, but the minuteman now gets points toward golden ages from victories in addition to its current promotions of ignoring terrain cost, drill 1, and +1 sight. So minutemen are like the UU from Brazil?
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Oct 1, 2013 21:21
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:So minutemen are like the UU from Brazil? Yes. It makes Brazil's UU a little less unique, but I like it because they come at very different times. America's UU will enhance your production and economy right when you should be starting a very long war as them. Brazil's UU isn't really meant to be used to start a war since it has no actual combat bonuses, and comes at a time where it can stick around longer to sell your tourism to other people. I think that they made a pretty simple change that didn't really step on any other civ's toes. The Human Crouton fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 21:32
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If I install the beta patch, will that screw up my GiantMultiplayerRobot game?
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Oct 1, 2013 21:41
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Oooh, I thought of an ability or possible UA that could be in the game. Not sure if it'd be a Policy or just unique to Spain, but: "Fifth Column." If you have a spy in an enemy city, its combat strength gets lowered.
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Oct 1, 2013 22:36
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I wonder if I can get the Pitboss server going on an EC2 Micro instance with WINE.
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Oct 1, 2013 22:44
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SlightlyMadman posted:If I install the beta patch, will that screw up my GiantMultiplayerRobot game? Probably yes, everyone has to have the same version to load and play the save. There's often a bit of chaos after a patch drops.
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Oct 1, 2013 22:50
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:... Sorry. Why was that under Great Admiral AI? Oh well, I'm happy for that, at least. When I copied it, it removed all the double line breaks and bullet points, and I missed separating some things back out. That particular one is actually Patch Notes posted:Great Admiral AI so that's my fault, not Firaxis'. Sorry!
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Oct 1, 2013 23:05
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KKKlean Energy posted:Probably yes, everyone has to have the same version to load and play the save. There's often a bit of chaos after a patch drops. Makes sense, as long as it will work out when we all get the patch on steam.
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Oct 1, 2013 23:20
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Hanse with Petra and the Colossus feels like cheating, holy poo poo. Even without this seems like it could be pretty fierce.
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Oct 1, 2013 23:24
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I read that as only the cities with Hanses (Hansen?) receive the production bonuses. The bonus is calculated from the total number of trade routes with city states in your entire empire. Oh, that makes more sense. I was thinking it was 5% empire wide production for every city state trade route ending in a city with a Hanse. Still, either way, you're gonna end up with 5% empire wide production per city state trade route anyways because why would you not build it? It's a bank, it costs nothing and gives both money and basically free production. Edit to avoid doublepost: They didn't document it in the notes, but now that Landsknechts are policy units, they got buffed. No movement cost to pillage and double plunder from taking cities. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 23:29
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quote:Changed MINIMUM_SETTLE_FERTILITY to 20000, up from 5000 to keep AI civs from settling worthless plots. Added some logging code to track plot values. But who will plop down cities in the snow next to one tile of stone now?  I don't know if I can play a game without stamping out the dozen or so arctic snow and ice cities. So much will change.
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Oct 1, 2013 23:49
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So what are peoples' post-patch impressions of the early game AI? One thing I noticed was that on Emperor the AI didn't finish the Great Library until turn 69. That's extremely late. I wonder if that's just a coincidence or if the AI has different early game priorities that makes them delay wonder building. Another thing I noticed: Washington had their second city within the first 20 turns, they must have made a Settler their second build. I don't think I've ever seen that before. There are no early wars despite be really aggressively forward settling on Montezuma. He responded by sending me a trade route. The patch notes mentioned a tweak or two to help AI declare war early but I'm not seeing that in action. But also, this is a sample size of one and Civ is a game that is extremely prone to flukey behavior. Another thing. holy crap, the +food from Bananas, Citrus, and Wheat (Sun God) is insane for jungle starts. Take that pantheon and build a Granary and you can have multiple 5 food tiles 25-30 turns into the game for crazy good early growth. Final note: I started as Japan and am on a coast with no sea resources for miles.
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Oct 2, 2013 02:00
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Bummer. I was holding out for a Swiss DLC civ that would have a special bank and mercenary mechanic.
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Oct 2, 2013 02:02
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:So what are peoples' post-patch impressions of the early game AI? One thing I noticed was that on Emperor the AI didn't finish the Great Library until turn 69. That's extremely late. I wonder if that's just a coincidence or if the AI has different early game priorities that makes them delay wonder building. Another thing I noticed: Washington had their second city within the first 20 turns, they must have made a Settler their second build. I don't think I've ever seen that before. There are no early wars despite be really aggressively forward settling on Montezuma. He responded by sending me a trade route. The patch notes mentioned a tweak or two to help AI declare war early but I'm not seeing that in action. But also, this is a sample size of one and Civ is a game that is extremely prone to flukey behavior. Another thing. holy crap, the +food from Bananas, Citrus, and Wheat (Sun God) is insane for jungle starts. Take that pantheon and build a Granary and you can have multiple 5 food tiles 25-30 turns into the game for crazy good early growth. This happened to me too 
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Oct 2, 2013 02:08
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AI has appoached me many times with some creative luxury trades. Pretty cool.
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Oct 2, 2013 02:34
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Does patching mess up games in progress? I just started a Babylon run, and I'm in a really strong position, provided I can hold Shaka back.
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Oct 2, 2013 02:39
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The Human Crouton posted:AI has appoached me many times with some creative luxury trades. Pretty cool. I got approached on like turn 15 by Washington looking to sell his embassy for a gpt. That was pretty cool. I've been playing sloppy and am super slow in hooking up my luxuries so I haven't really seen any trade offers yet.
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Oct 2, 2013 02:43
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I had Dandolo and Pablo both offer trades for my extra copper resource on the same turn, but an early war against a super close Netherlands still saw their entire army absent for the siege of their capital.
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Oct 2, 2013 02:47
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The balance patch hasn't hit OSX yet, but it'll probably kick in within a week or two. Looking forward to playing my first Japan game in forever.
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Oct 2, 2013 03:00
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This is also great news for the Goon Civ MP group. We have been yearning for a lo of those MP inprovements there, such as being able to pick the Civ you are joining in as when joining in progress.
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Oct 2, 2013 03:03
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Speedball posted:The balance patch hasn't hit OSX yet, but it'll probably kick in within a week or two. Looking forward to playing my first Japan game in forever. I played a partial game as Japan today, and it was really fun. The culture boost along with the honor opener allowed me to shoot through honor quickly and terrorize my continent with samurai.
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Oct 2, 2013 03:37
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I am definitely digging the random approaches to trade for or buy my luxuries. The AI is really possessive of Open Borders now, though, if you have any early tourism whatsoever.
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Oct 2, 2013 04:35
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Also no changes to the expansion AI, so I still fully expect them to poo poo out insane numbers of totally useless cities in the arctic or across one tile islands. Useless cities? I don't know what your talking about. This is a perfectly good city:  I mean, sure, the AI managed to place that city in the one place where it's coastal status would be of zero use, and 2 tiles away from a river so they don't even get that bonus. In a predominantly snow covered area that has already largely been taken up by a CS... But they totally got that 1 coal, and 1 fish (they won't be able to develop).
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Oct 2, 2013 04:38
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HappyHelmet posted:Useless cities? I don't know what your talking about. This is a perfectly good city: That city is way better than what the average arctic AI city used to be. It can actually grow and do some things, even if they aren't significant things. This is what I usually saw: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3558848&pagenumber=190&perpage=40#post419570727
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Oct 2, 2013 04:50
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I guess well have to see how frequent it is. The occasional odd "bad" city is still gonna happen. What matters is it's not as ridiculously chronic as it was before.
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Oct 2, 2013 06:06
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Is this live now, or are you guys using the beta thingie? Also, is this final? I'm really surprised they haven't made more changes to the civs than they have now.
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Oct 2, 2013 07:16
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Jastiger posted:Is this live now, or are you guys using the beta thingie? Also, is this final? I'm really surprised they haven't made more changes to the civs than they have now. We're using the beta patch. Right click the game in steam, go to properties, go to the beta tab, and put in publicbetaplease as the password and it gives you access to the public beta. Firaxis says the balance changes are final, they won't make any other alterations to it. The beta is for bug finding and fixing. I suspect outside of any possible hotfixes, this will be the last time Firaxis ever touches Civ V. Feels like they could have done a lot more.
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Oct 2, 2013 07:25
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That city is way better than what the average arctic AI city used to be. It can actually grow and do some things, even if they aren't significant things. This is what I usually saw: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3558848&pagenumber=190&perpage=40#post419570727 The city I posted just amused me because if they had built it just 1 tile to the right it wouldn't have been completely terrible. As it would have been a river city with viable coastal access. Instead they put the city in the one possible spot where the city wasn't on the river, and was blockaded by ice flows  .RagnarokAngel posted:I guess well have to see how frequent it is. The occasional odd "bad" city is still gonna happen. What matters is it's not as ridiculously chronic as it was before. Well the big thing is it looks like they toned down the willingness for the AI to make new cities. So hopefully we'll see less situations where the AIs are building cities just for the sake of building cities.
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Oct 2, 2013 07:51
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Arg! What is the point of buying votes if the AI can double dip and vote yea and nay on the same ballot?
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Oct 2, 2013 09:43
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Arg! What is the point of buying votes if the AI can double dip and vote yea and nay on the same ballot? That scrounging rear end in a top hat who keeps begging for Scholars in Residence? gently caress him, nullify his vote without taking the diplomatic penalty of leveraging your 30 votes from City States against his lovely proposal.
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Oct 2, 2013 10:13
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Ah now in the same game Maria is drinking my Prora milkshake. I went hard on tourism as early as possible, going wide with Byzantium and taking monasteries, cathedrals, and pagodas plus the reformation belief giving them tourism points. Worked well enough that after I took autocracy the second civ to reach an ideology also took it and then beat me to flight. This feels like one of those games I know I'll win eventually but don't really want to bother.
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Oct 2, 2013 11:16
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This is a relatively minor complaint, but one thing I wish they would have added to this game was the ability to specify the amount of Civs to a continent there are like you could in Civ 4. On continents maps it seems like 70-80% of the time you end up with the majority of Civs on one giant borderline Pangaea with a couple Civs on a smaller token continent. I know it's supposed to be replicating earth or whatever, but it often ends up being unbalanced in my games.
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Oct 2, 2013 12:36
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Eric the Mauve posted:So loving stupid and aggravating. There should be no warmonger penalty in this case. While I feel your pain, this actually makes some sense. Take the example of when the Soviets rolled into Berlin. Did America become their BFF? What happens is that the common enemy is now dead, and the other guy on your 'side' now has a giant army and knows how to use it. That's a genuinely concerning situation.
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Oct 2, 2013 12:41
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