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Geight posted:I find myself drawn to the -8 gold per turn in your screenshot. Not to call you out or anything, because that same thing happens to me whenever I try to field an army of that size in that era. How did you deal with that? There's lots of little tricks you can use to eek out gpt here and there. One thing I've been working on lately is removing any road I don't need once I conquer a new city. Every tile of road is 1 gpt and it really adds up considering how many superfluous roads the ai tends to build. Also those city state quests for trade routes? You can remove those roads as soon as the quest finishes and the city state won't care.
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Oct 4, 2013 02:07
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You know I always just assumed those roads to City States actually produced after they fulfilled the quest, that'll teach me to assume things make sense. 
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Oct 4, 2013 02:09
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GeckoMissingo posted:There's lots of little tricks you can use to eek out gpt here and there. One thing I've been working on lately is removing any road I don't need once I conquer a new city. Every tile of road is 1 gpt and it really adds up considering how many superfluous roads the ai tends to build. Also those city state quests for trade routes? You can remove those roads as soon as the quest finishes and the city state won't care. That's one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me going back to Civ4 C2C. It's just roads everywhere and I can't stand how ugly and wasteful it all looks.
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Oct 4, 2013 02:17
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The other big stumbling block I'm sure is that C2C is a kind of terrible mod
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Oct 4, 2013 02:25
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So I finally picked up Brave New World, and thanks to a random choice by a friend of mine, am starting by playing as Poland. I feel like it doesn't entirely matter who I'm playing as, though, because my starting location is the narrow center of a vaguely 8-shaped continent, boxed in even further by city-states, the Aztecs, and the Japanese. But can someone tell me what Poland's actually... good at? Some of this seems cool, but it's all sort of unfocused.
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Oct 4, 2013 02:27
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Cleretic posted:So I finally picked up Brave New World, and thanks to a random choice by a friend of mine, am starting by playing as Poland. I feel like it doesn't entirely matter who I'm playing as, though, because my starting location is the narrow center of a vaguely 8-shaped continent, boxed in even further by city-states, the Aztecs, and the Japanese. Poland can do a totally rad tradition/liberty dual start. You take tradition, then take liberty down to settler, then finish tradition, then finish Liberty. When playing as Poland I always beeline straight for writing and the great library, because not only does it give you a new tech, if you pick the right tech, it gives you a social policy as well. Overall, Poland can fill an entire extra tree of abilities and still probably be the first one to form an ideology as well.
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Oct 4, 2013 02:37
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Cleretic posted:So I finally picked up Brave New World, and thanks to a random choice by a friend of mine, am starting by playing as Poland. I feel like it doesn't entirely matter who I'm playing as, though, because my starting location is the narrow center of a vaguely 8-shaped continent, boxed in even further by city-states, the Aztecs, and the Japanese. In addition to what natetimm said: Winged Hussars are brutal. Get military experience building and by the time you get them they will be pushing jerks backward and healing while doing so. Pushing jerks backward is way way more useful than it sounds. I've had situations where an injured unit is next to a healthy enemy, and a hussar pushing the enemy back and taking his hex saved the day.
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Oct 4, 2013 02:46
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SlightlyMadman posted:Yeah, I go Barrage 1-3 every time, because it will help you keep them alive when they hole up on a hill. Once you've got Barrage 3, you unlock Logistics and Range, which are the absolute best promotions no matter what. The only real question is which to get first. Mathematically, it makes sense to get Logistics first, because two attacks means you're earning XP twice as fast so you'll get the next promotion quicker. In practice though, I generally go range first, since being able to keep a cat outside of city attack range means it's basically invincible. Not to mention that you can also use Range to keep a city from healing while your melee guy gets a chance to restore some health. Though lately, I've been going Logistics first because I've been pushing the size of my offensive army to the bare minimum. Three Logistics Archers will destroy pretty much everything, and it helps you capture cities faster, which means you get more major holding earlier, which of course means you snowball harder.
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Oct 4, 2013 03:09
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They may have cut the happiness-giving founder beliefs in half but I still like 'em. Tithe is still probably the best of the lot, though. I try out Pilgrimage (the one that gives faith for foreign believers) if I'm going to do something that involves spending a hell of a lot of faith points, though.
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Oct 4, 2013 03:09
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What is a good liberty build order?
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Oct 4, 2013 03:16
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Baron Porkface posted:What is a good liberty build order? Depends on if you have nearby luxuries that are easily researched. If it's stuff that can be mined, go for the one that gives you a worker first. If you're trying to expand fast beeline for the settler policy. The other two can usually wait.
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Oct 4, 2013 04:29
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Wouldn't I prioritize farms with an early worker?
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Oct 4, 2013 05:39
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Baron Porkface posted:Wouldn't I prioritize farms with an early worker? Get a luxury or two online ASAP and sell them. edit: Almost all starts will start you with one copy of one luxury, and multiple copies of another luxury. Obviously sell all but one of the luxury you have multiples of, but also don't be afraid of selling your only copy of that second luxury, either. You can often get by with just one luxury for a while, even while expanding, if you do it smart. (especially if you have horses or elephants for some circuses) edit 2: And obviously if you're the dutch, sell everything at the start. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 05:41
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It's up to you. If you're going Liberty, you are planning on expanding early so you need as much early happiness as you can in addition to growth. You can sell the luxuries or just use them as happiness, whatever you want.
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Oct 4, 2013 05:41
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Baron Porkface posted:What is a good liberty build order? I usually do something like 2 scouts, shrine if I think I can get a religion - otherwise skip it, monument, worker, maybe an archer if there's tons of barbs, and then 3 settlers. That's 4 new cities total including the one from collective rule. If there's still good spots to settle then keep pumping out settlers. You may have to wait until after the national college finishes or buy a library directly after settling. I wouldn't recommend more than 7 cities total unless the 8th spot is amazing. It's kind of unlikely but it can happen. I highly recommend stealing a worker from a city state and building the pyramids to supply workers for all the cities.
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Oct 4, 2013 05:59
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 GoonCiv MP is just all politics and diplomacy.
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Oct 4, 2013 06:49
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When I go Piety I usually still take the Tradition opener first--that extra three culture points in the beginning and extra border growth is too good to pass up, plus I intend on backfilling Tradition later to help me grow. I dunno, how do you guys do it?
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Oct 4, 2013 07:42
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Speedball posted:When I go Piety I usually still take the Tradition opener first--that extra three culture points in the beginning and extra border growth is too good to pass up, plus I intend on backfilling Tradition later to help me grow. I dunno, how do you guys do it? Much the same, except I ignore piety entirely and get tradition instead. Dude asking what Poland's social policies are good for: Everything. Being able to get the killer combo of full Tradition/Consulates/everything in rationalism that gives extra beakers/everything good in your ideology faster than anybody else is excellent. Until I discovered the best way to spend my policies they did seem weak though. Ducal Stables are great as well - build them anywhere you can as they have zero maintenance.
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Oct 4, 2013 08:44
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I'm late to the Keshik party since I'm playing my first game as Mongolia, but they are just ridiculously powerful. I got Chivalry around 50 AD and invaded China 200 years later, and wiped them out by 510. I'm used to attacking with giant militaries to account for attrition, but I haven't lost a single unit yet. All of the AIs think I'm a threat to the world and none of them can stop me. 3 Keshiks can destroy all of the units around a city and wear down its health, and then I just wait for one of my two melee units to arrive and take the city.
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Oct 4, 2013 08:54
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SlightlyMadman posted:Yeah, I go Barrage 1-3 every time, because it will help you keep them alive when they hole up on a hill. Hmm? Barrage doesn't provide a defensive bonus, only an attacking one. You'll get the rough terrain defensive bonus from the hill itself but Barrage won't do anything to protect your unit from an attack. If your hill is surrounded by open terrain then you don't even get the bonus for counter-attacking, so the Barrage is all for nothing. I gotta admit when I first started out I made that mistake for a good few months. I just assumed it was equivalent to Drill, and thought "Oooh I'll take Barrage and then hide my guys in a forest!" without realising it did nothing that the forest wouldn't have already done by itself.
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Oct 4, 2013 09:33
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The other big stumbling block I'm sure is that C2C is a kind of terrible mod That may be true but it's only mod in which you can fight Neanderthals with subdued Gorillas. It really is nice to come into Civ4 so late though, such a wealth of mods for the taking.
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Oct 4, 2013 09:41
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I've been starting to wonder if I should bother with going straight barrage/accuracy 1-3, then the range/logistics tier of promotions. Maybe I'm not enough of a warmonger, and tend to play standard/quick but I've been finding that wars are over far too quickly before I can jump from 60xp to 100xp so to get range or logistics. And in MP, there's no guarantee that your 100xp superunits will even last against someone who wants to kill them (especially once bombers come into play). So it might be better to focus on outproducing your opponents and put your promotions that have more short-term payoffs. I've seen Yoorus making use of the Volley promo, because it's a good way to break cities and fortified units.
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Oct 4, 2013 09:47
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I really dislike how some promotions are flat-out terrible. The +25% bonus against mounted units (Formation I), for example, it not only difficult to use (you have to basically hope a horse stops near enough for the attack, or attacks your unit) but it's temporary too since horses are eventually out of play, and to make it worse it pushes the cost of every subsequent promotion up, so why on earth would any sane person pick Formation when Shock or Drill will give an equivalent bonus against every unit, for the rest of the game, in a full half of the world's terrrain? Edit: not to mention that forgoing Shock or Drill means missing out on better promotion options. I also dislike that Logistics allows your unit to move after attacking, even after the second attack. Given then moving after attacking is a special quality of some units, I feel like it should be a separate promotion all by itself. My favourite tactic for a Logistics melee unit is to snipe a city, and then retreat back out of it so my super-unit isn't lost when the city is re-taken. But it's so cheesy. It doesn't help that the AI doesn't know what the gently caress when it comes to promotions. The promotion system is basically a way for the human to gently caress over the AI (not that I think this can be helped, mind - there's no real solution to this I guess. Unless there was a generic promotion like +10% performance in all conditions and the AI took it every time) Edit: my numbers might be off because I've been doing GnK scenarios recently. I seem to recall that Formation has been buffed to 33% for BNW, but really it's still terrible. There needs to be a "obsolescence" clause for promotions that allow you to trade it for another, or have it auto-upgrade to another. Microplastics fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 10:08
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I almost forgot about Hiawatha during my hiatus from this game. Hiawatha Status: Still a gently caress. I don't even know how he's the runaway AI this time; usually it's because he just settles cities goddamn everywhere, but entering the Industrial Era now I don't even know if he's got more than his capital.
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Oct 4, 2013 11:51
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With regard to promotions being way better for humans than AIs because AIs don't preserve their units, I'd like to see a "Military Thought" set of social policies, fuelled by a "military experience" resource. MXP would be generated in large amounts by your units fighting, and in smaller amounts by barracks-type buildings. I would remove promotions from individual units - perhaps keep in a linear green-regular-veteran scale with +25% power per step for individual units. This way, an AI could meatgrinder its way through a war losing lots of units but still end up with an experienced, deadly army. After all, most of the men from destroyed units survive the destruction of their units, and it's not like you put your generals and logistics guys on the front line. I think the +range and logistics promotions are what really break the promotions system, though - they really are disproportionately good compared to everything else.
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Oct 4, 2013 12:09
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Phobophilia posted:I've been starting to wonder if I should bother with going straight barrage/accuracy 1-3, then the range/logistics tier of promotions. Maybe I'm not enough of a warmonger, and tend to play standard/quick but I've been finding that wars are over far too quickly before I can jump from 60xp to 100xp so to get range or logistics. And in MP, there's no guarantee that your 100xp superunits will even last against someone who wants to kill them (especially once bombers come into play). So it might be better to focus on outproducing your opponents and put your promotions that have more short-term payoffs. I'm with you. On standard speed I build units for the war at hand so I'll take volley on siege engines and if they live long enough after that, cover. The exception is navy, because I really like range/logistics frigates.
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Oct 4, 2013 14:05
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KKKlean Energy posted:Hmm? Barrage doesn't provide a defensive bonus, only an attacking one. You'll get the rough terrain defensive bonus from the hill itself but Barrage won't do anything to protect your unit from an attack. If your hill is surrounded by open terrain then you don't even get the bonus for counter-attacking, so the Barrage is all for nothing. Huh, that's funny I never realized that. I'd still say it's better though, because any unit on open terrain is pretty easy to kill anyways, but Barrage can give you the extra damage needed to take out units holed up on rough terrain. Really though, it doesn't matter what you take for the first three promotions, because you're just doing it to unlock Range and Logistics.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:25
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Does anyone ever have an issue with their religion spreading too well? I got Church Property so I decided to grab Itinerant Preachers for my enhancer belief and later when I made Festivus the world religion suddenly almost every other civ had an extra two votes. I had to resort to Arsenal of Diplomacy to regain any sort of control over the world congress, it was madness. Later Byzantium tried to repeal world religion and every civ voted against it, and even she only cast one 'yea' vote.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:58
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Chamale posted:I'm late to the Keshik party since I'm playing my first game as Mongolia, but they are just ridiculously powerful. I got Chivalry around 50 AD and invaded China 200 years later, and wiped them out by 510. I'm used to attacking with giant militaries to account for attrition, but I haven't lost a single unit yet. All of the AIs think I'm a threat to the world and none of them can stop me. 3 Keshiks can destroy all of the units around a city and wear down its health, and then I just wait for one of my two melee units to arrive and take the city. Powerful Keshiks. I played my first Mongolia game the other day too and four Kesiks and two Pikemen got me two capitals and about half of France's cities before I had to send them home when my friend I was playing with paid England to declare war on me. The AI is just completely incapable of dealing with "run on hill, shoot, get off hill." The only unit I ever lost was a Khan because I forgot I put it on sleep when moving my Keshiks around. I am Reverend fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 16:02
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Geight posted:Does anyone ever have an issue with their religion spreading too well? I got Church Property so I decided to grab Itinerant Preachers for my enhancer belief and later when I made Festivus the world religion suddenly almost every other civ had an extra two votes. I had to resort to Arsenal of Diplomacy to regain any sort of control over the world congress, it was madness. Later Byzantium tried to repeal world religion and every civ voted against it, and even she only cast one 'yea' vote. Good for tourism, not so good for exclusivity on votes. How was your spreading strategy? If I want to make absolutely drat sure that my religion spreads everywhere I usually have to go for that reformation belief that makes prophets and inquisitors only reduce the religion's presence by half. That way it's much harder for them to prophet-bomb all the cities I've worked so hard to convert.
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Oct 4, 2013 16:18
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When does that patch go live? And if I play a game now, the patch comes, and I start that same game, does that mess up my game?
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Oct 4, 2013 16:50
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Jastiger posted:When does that patch go live? And if I play a game now, the patch comes, and I start that same game, does that mess up my game? Patch notes said that there are likely to be issues with pre-patch saves post-patch, yeah. If you use the beta patch now, those saves should work after the patch drops for real, though.
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Oct 4, 2013 16:56
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Apparently they updated the beta today. A few bugs got fixed, XCOM units got nerfed (???), Japan can continue building Samurai after Gunpowder, and the Indonesian Candi no longer requires a water source 
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Oct 4, 2013 17:12
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Gabriel Pope posted:Apparently they updated the beta today. A few bugs got fixed, XCOM units got nerfed (???), Japan can continue building Samurai after Gunpowder, and the Indonesian Candi no longer requires a water source Candi and samurai changes are awesome. Build a samurai, and immediately upgrade to rifleman with the shock promotion.
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Oct 4, 2013 17:33
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How did the XCOMs get nerfed?
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Oct 4, 2013 17:37
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Speedball posted:How did the XCOMs get nerfed? Lost 10 combat strength.
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Oct 4, 2013 17:38
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Ah, so they're just now at the same level as mechanized infantry.
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Oct 4, 2013 17:39
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Speedball posted:Good for tourism, not so good for exclusivity on votes. How was your spreading strategy? If I want to make absolutely drat sure that my religion spreads everywhere I usually have to go for that reformation belief that makes prophets and inquisitors only reduce the religion's presence by half. That way it's much harder for them to prophet-bomb all the cities I've worked so hard to convert. My spreading strategy was just "Get itinerant preachers, build the one thing that gives me a bunch of free missionaries" and before I knew it, every civ except Egypt and the other human player on my team was following the tenets of Festivus! It was a really bizarre game on that front, the AI seemed incredibly uninterested in religion, although they took advantage of the bug that lets them found pantheons well after a religion has been enhanced which was annoying. I also didn't have Piety because I was doing the Tradition/Liberty thing as Poland and even though I had no clue how to do it outside of "get both Tradition and Liberty" it was crazy strong. e: XCOM units should totally be stronger than Mechanized Infantry, they've got plasma tech! <  >
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Oct 4, 2013 17:40
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Jastiger posted:When does that patch go live? And if I play a game now, the patch comes, and I start that same game, does that mess up my game? How do you install the beta patch if you're using Steam? It's currently holding up our goon PBM hotseat game.
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Oct 4, 2013 17:40
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Peas and Rice posted:How do you install the beta patch if you're using Steam? It's currently holding up our goon PBM hotseat game. Right click Civ V in your Steam library, go to Properties, go to the Beta tab, and enter the password "publicbetaplease". Then switch over to the public beta channel and let it patch.
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Oct 4, 2013 17:44
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