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Saxophone posted:How the hell do you even kill wall of flesh with normal mode gear? I've got full molten armor with obsidian skull and the rose that lets me touch lava and not die and I'm just getting demolished and I don't feel like I'm doing much damage to it at all. I suppose I will potion up and see if that helps but yikes. I get the little feelers dead and then the wall to like 6k/8k health and then just die horribly. By then, I can't catch up with him and he'll have despawned. Oy. Bee Grenades are awesome and probably the easiest way to kill the WoF. You get them from Queen Bees which are in the Jungle. Queen Bee's havea super predictable attack pattern, and in a small world there are usually 4-5 Bee Hives. Also honey.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:51
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The most festive massacre. The only problem with confetti shot in the dungeon is it obscures any spikes on the floor.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:22
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I don't know why it bothers people so much that broken stuff is in the game. If that's not the playstyle you like then simply don't use it. I kind of prefer being able to do what I want in the game rather than spending dozens of hours hand crafting the perfect fight arena and grinding for the super low drop things to make fights possible. And there's so much crap in the game that even if you nerf one broken thing chances are something will be there to replace it. I see this with so many games lately where people play a game a bunch to the point where it becomes easy to them then demand the developers make it harder and harder until it's basically impossible for all but a tiny percent of people to play and have fun with it. Especially considering the building/exploration aspect of the game not everyone is looking for a ridiculously tough, white-knuckle fight from the bosses. Some people just want to see what the game has to offer and build cool poo poo and offering a way to trivialize the bosses if killing bosses isn't your thing and you want to put in the effort doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. There's other caster gear if you want to play a caster without being 'broken'. It's still possible to win the fights as melee or ranged so you're not forced to use the broken stuff. If you want the bosses to be harder challenge yourself to re-fight them by putting self-imposed restrictions on the gear or consumables you use. I don't really understand how nerfing the specter gear makes the game more fun for anyone.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:24
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Nuclear Fetus posted:This sounds hilarious, how does it work? Is there actually piss in the game? We have a dedicated server running with my mates where we only play hardcore and since I keep dying, at some point I usually just start loving with their heads and it leads to some funny stuff. I've managed to trick one guy into following me all the way up into the sky where it stops scrolling and then made him fall by mining some dirt from where his hook was attached and he managed to miss his double jump too. Now I just want to piss in his house though. There's a spell called Golden Showers that looks like a glowing piss stream. It's fantastic. You don't get piss, like, pooling around, but I guess you could dump honey around and pretend it's piss if you really want to commit that much to piss jokes.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:24
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Joshlemagne posted:I don't know why it bothers people so much that broken stuff is in the game. If that's not the playstyle you like then simply don't use it. I kind of prefer being able to do what I want in the game rather than spending dozens of hours hand crafting the perfect fight arena and grinding for the super low drop things to make fights possible. And there's so much crap in the game that even if you nerf one broken thing chances are something will be there to replace it. I see this with so many games lately where people play a game a bunch to the point where it becomes easy to them then demand the developers make it harder and harder until it's basically impossible for all but a tiny percent of people to play and have fun with it. Especially considering the building/exploration aspect of the game not everyone is looking for a ridiculously tough, white-knuckle fight from the bosses. Some people just want to see what the game has to offer and build cool poo poo and offering a way to trivialize the bosses if killing bosses isn't your thing and you want to put in the effort doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I pretty much agree with you, but this sort of near-crusade happens in basically every game ever. Wish I could understand the mindset that generates it, but it is what it is.  Meanwhile, I'll just keep digging.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:28
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The Rune Wizard's Robes are really cool. I can't post a gif, but if you like particle effects, they're awesome. Dyes also work on them, and they're white by default.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:37
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The argument is less 'the Spectre set absolutely needs to be nerfed' and more 'let's not make other parts of the game harder just to compensate for it'. At least, that's what it started as.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:38
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Making end-game items game breaking should be a feature of any good game. It's fun to grind and be clever to get to the point of god-hood. But I want a reward for getting there, namely I can trivialize the entire game. It's one of the reasons I like RPGs or any game where the more careful you are at the start, the more you steamroll at the end. Life steal items in Terraria break the game nicely, and I appreciate that.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:39
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Yeah, it's really satisfying to be that smug guy who has to go into the jungle dungeon first and clear the traps, or escort the lesser players to their dungeon ice chest because they can't even beat a paladin by standing still and holding the left mouse button.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:45
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:The argument is less 'the Spectre set absolutely needs to be nerfed' and more 'let's not make other parts of the game harder just to compensate for it'. At least, that's what it started as. I can acquiesce to that argument, then, yeah. Like Powercrazy said, the reward for dragging yourself up from scraps to godhood should be... godhood. IMO at least, being able to completely trivialize poo poo that used to be horrifying owns.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:45
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A lot of people play cooperatively with friends and it's never fun to want to play one way but realize that you're just arbitrarily shittier than a friend who wants to play another way just because. If something is way too good it can ruin the experience accidentally in that kind of environment, too. With the friends I played with our newly-minted Spectre Armor guy managed to accidentally completely ruin our first solar eclipse; without him it would have been tense and dangerous, but with him we just kind of stood still and held down attack buttons because we couldn't die. Saying "oh man well you can just not use all this broken stuff and put a bunch of arbitrary restrictions on yourself" is a hollow argument. Someone on the other side could just say "oh if the game's too hard for you you could just use tedit and cheat yourself infinite stuff" and it would be just as stupid. There are degrees of balance. Melee builds are always going to be a little weaker against bosses and enemies because they can't fight from a safe distance in the same way, for example. Guns are generally a little bit stronger than bows because of projectile speed/rate of fire. Golden Shower is probably too strong for how fast you can get it, and Spectre Armor is probably too easy to craft compared to the other armor types. That stuff is all trivial. Perfect balance is impossible and counterproductive because it kills variety. But you also don't want singular options to be so drastically superior to all others that they shatter the game. Redigit specifically removed infinite healing before for a reason. Turtle Armor and Shroomite Armor are really sweet endgame stuff and I'm totally fine with all of the magic weapons being as batshit bonkers as they are. Death Sickle owns bones. Super powerful endgame stuff is awesome. Spectre is just really bland and lovely design and amounts to typing iddqd in Doom once you get it.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:47
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If mages need the spectre armor to survive bosses then it should be self-only, not something that heals everybody on your team that's nearby. And again... the problem isn't that it's really powerful; it should be. The turtle armor and shroomite stuff is really powerful too. Tactical shotguns loaded with chlorophyte bullets are extremely powerful. The problem is that the spectre armor blows them all out of the water to the point that with the other armors you still have to dodge boss gimmicks but with spectre armor you can just ignore half of it and heal through everything. It's not good game design to have one and only one armor set that invalidates all the bosses in the game, and which can be acquired before killing any of the hard ones.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:48
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Powercrazy posted:Making end-game items game breaking should be a feature of any good game. It's fun to grind and be clever to get to the point of god-hood. But I want a reward for getting there, namely I can trivialize the entire game. That's exactly my thought on it. The problem isn't that things need to be harder, or that the Spectre set is too good, but rather that it's too easy to obtain. All the best stuff should be game-breaking until we get another content patch that adds even better stuff, at which point it's cool to nerf what breaks the game currently and create that incentive to go out and make better. Where it breaks down for me is that you can get Spectre so much quicker and easier than a lot of the other stuff.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:49
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Kanos posted:A lot of people play cooperatively with friends and it's never fun to want to play one way but realize that you're just arbitrarily shittier than a friend who wants to play another way just because. If something is way too good it can ruin the experience accidentally in that kind of environment, too. That's fine. Tell your friend "hey, this is kinda boring when you trivialize poo poo, could you wear something else?" If they're not a douchebag, they'll probably do so. I would.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:50
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Honestly I have no problem with overpowered equipment. I find it baffling that there are people who don't enjoy being an overpowered god of destruction. 
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Oct 7, 2013 17:51
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Starhawk64 posted:Honestly I have no problem with overpowered equipment. People don't enjoy being an overpowered god of destruction ? I want the game to challenge me without having to arbitrarily limit myself.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:52
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The Spectre armor set bonus is only broken in conjunction with a few spells. If you don't have Magnet Sphere, Vampire Knives (which are apparently broken all on their own), the inferno staff, or a couple of the other dropped spells, the lifesteal is only helpful, not gamebreaking. I got the spectre armor almost as soon as I got into 1.2 hardmode; with none of those spells, it just meant I stayed alive longer, but I certainly wasn't the god of destruction I became when I got Magnet Sphere. I had all of the 1.1 hardmode spells, but I still had to be really careful. Basically, it would be better to slightly nerf Magnet Sphere's damage per hit than it would be to nerf the set bonus of Spectre armor.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:52
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Kyrosiris posted:That's fine. Tell your friend "hey, this is kinda boring when you trivialize poo poo, could you wear something else?" If they're not a douchebag, they'll probably do so. I would. Where does that stop? Golden Shower is really good when you first enter hardmode, way better than any other option available. Should we say "Don't use that because it's incredibly loving powerful"? Should we say "Hey, don't use your endgame armor even though you want to be a mage"? That's not fun for either party.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:54
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This was not easy to obtain. Worth it? Probably not, but it's kinda cool. Regarding the above conversation, while I like the Spectre Armor I think it should be nerfed. I like that there are distict melee/range/magic playstyles in this game and it sucks that one is definitively better than the others right now.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:55
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Synastren posted:Basically, it would be better to slightly nerf Magnet Sphere's damage per hit than it would be to nerf the set bonus of Spectre armor. Or maybe make the lifesteal reduced on multi-impact spells? I only started recently despite owning the game for ages, but if Magnet Sphere hits an enemy X times whereas like the Diamond Staff only hits once, maybe the lifesteal could be reduced by a degree. Kinda like reduced lifesteal on multi-hit ranged weapons in PSO.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:55
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It would probably help if it took more to make the set, since as it is now it's incredibly easy to get the materials needed. Adding in a second ingredient would probably go well towards making it more of an end-game thing depending on what it is.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:58
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President Ark posted:I want the game to challenge me without having to arbitrarily limit myself. I do to, up until I get the game-breaking stuff. I guess the problem is Spectre armor can be gotten too early. If it required Chlorophyte or something (or if ectoplasma only dropped in the jungle dungeon), then it would be ok, but as it only requires ectoplasma, which can be gotten directly upon entering hardmode if you are clever, it's probably too good for being so easy to get.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:58
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Or make it so the lifesteal can only proc once per second or similar limit. It would reduce the healing power of multihit magic weapons.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:00
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Mountaineer posted:This was not easy to obtain. Worth it? Probably not, but it's kinda cool. Got mine too. And yeah it is worth it, now getting the lizard egg it is another story...
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Oct 7, 2013 18:05
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I think just change the spectre set to restore mana from damage. That way it becomes a better way for mages to sustain their DPS similar to melee and ranged, while allowing them to use more mana hungry spells more frequently. Currently you can just use it and mana shackles to facetank the boss and turn every hit into 120 mana so you can spam even harder. I think though, there should be a wand that fufills a similar role as the spectre set, but isn't AOE. Something like the Spectre Staff restores HP at the same % the Spectre set does (10%)
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Oct 7, 2013 18:06
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The only thing that needs to be done to bring melee up to snuff is give the terra blade lifesteal, say 30% or whatever. Now you can melee facetank, spell cast facetank (spectre armor) or ranged facetank (vampire blades). Done.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:09
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Powercrazy posted:The only thing that needs to be done to bring melee up to snuff is give the terra blade lifesteal, say 30% or whatever. Now you can melee facetank, spell cast facetank (spectre armor) or ranged facetank (vampire blades). Done. Vampire Blades, count as melee damage.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:13
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Well, in case anyone was wondering, in a battle between Pirates and Piss, Piss wins.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:13
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You could give bosses a debuff to prevent life steal every so often during a fight.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:15
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benzine posted:Vampire Blades, count as melee damage. As far as I can tell, though, they sadly don't reforge to anything except the universal prefixes.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:17
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benzine posted:Vampire Blades, count as melee damage. They count as melee damage but are ranged projectiles. So really they are ranged. Plus they are as good as spectre armor, so it's fine.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:22
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Anyone have some tips for the Brain of Cthulhu? I've killed quite a few Eyes of Cthulhu and I've attempted the brain several times, I can easily get him to Phase 2 with a Tendon Bow + Jester Arrows. I've got so much Crimtane and Tissue Samples from attempting this that I've built everything that can be made out of them, but I can't figure out how to avoid the brain's Phase 2 attacks in a spider cave. Should I be trying to get to the surface before killing his swarm of eyes?
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Oct 7, 2013 18:26
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Get a weapon that strikes multiple enemies and just go loving berserk on the lovely little eye things. Explosive weapons work well if you're careful not to hit yourself, Meteor Shot would probably work pretty well, and piercing spells are quite good too. The first part of that fight is just a straight DPS rampage - move around and avoid hits as best you can, but focus on shredding those eyes for their sweet sweet heart and star drops. With luck you'll basically be at full health for phase 2. If you can do that with the Jester arrows, cool, issue resolved. Phase 2 is just annoying bullshit. You need to be able to run around a lot (so yeah probably don't do it in the chasm) and also you need good defense, healing potions, and solid damage output. The Brain will regularly teleport directly on top of you; your job is to try to avoid this somewhat while blasting the loving poo poo out of it so that it dies before it can obnoxious you to death. Sorry I can't offer better advice, but it really does come down to a bit of a slugfest. If you can't beat it now, come back when you have more health and better equipment.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:32
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Photosynaesthesias posted:Anyone have some tips for the Brain of Cthulhu? Build his summoning item (15 vertebrae at a demon altar) and do the entire fight on the surface.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:35
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Hit him and his eyes with the Blood Butcherer  *black metal scream*It actually works pretty well, if you've got at least 2 people in the fight. The knockback will keep them from dinging you too much and him from getting to you before he teleports again.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:38
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:The argument is less 'the Spectre set absolutely needs to be nerfed' and more 'let's not make other parts of the game harder just to compensate for it'. At least, that's what it started as. My position is rather that other options should be brought on par with the broken stuff. There are very few endgame spells actually worth using (Magnet Sphere, Rainbow Gun, Shadowbeam and arguably Inferno Fork although I think it's just a worse Rainbow Gun) even though there's at least ten of them, and ranged builds are the only ones that don't get any lifesteal.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:44
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Welp, I've defeated some hardmode bosses and I pretty much have the best non-jungle dungeon gear I can get. Vampiric knives are so hilariously broken holy poo poo, all of the bosses went down in seconds and I wasn't even allowed to go under 350HP. I found the jungle dungeon, but I haven't found that stupid loving flower that summons the key-holding boss. Is there any trick to it, or will it be at a random place anywhere in the jungle? I've spent 2 hours+ looking around and I'm about to say "gently caress it" and save edit the dungeon key into my inventory.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:54
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Photosynaesthesias posted:Anyone have some tips for the Brain of Cthulhu? If you can get your hands on a Rotted Fork, that makes his second phase a joke where you can basically stand still and poke him whenever he appears.
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Oct 7, 2013 19:01
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Bobnumerotres posted:Welp, I've defeated some hardmode bosses and I pretty much have the best non-jungle dungeon gear I can get. Vampiric knives are so hilariously broken holy poo poo, all of the bosses went down in seconds and I wasn't even allowed to go under 350HP. It looks like this and glows. 
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Oct 7, 2013 19:01
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Photosynaesthesias posted:Anyone have some tips for the Brain of Cthulhu? I saved up and bought a Minishark from the Gun Merchant. Use a sword or spear to kill the cloud of eyes, but as soon as they die and he goes physical, just open up with the gun. It fires fast enough that it basically stunlocks him where he pops in, and you can jump and keep moving while holding down the fire button and just lay into him. Trying to use a sword on him was just an exercise in pain.
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Oct 7, 2013 19:06
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