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gggiiimmmppp posted:In the beta patch, liberating cities/citystates counteracts previous warmonger penalties. Is this a vanilla thing that was just never documented in the tooltips? Because it's really handy. I ended up rolling back my korea game last night and going on a world helicopter dick tour with stealth bombers and xcom squads, and every time I'd piss off the last of my friends with my warmongering I'd liberate/resurrect one of my stoneage friends that was annihilated or a citystate and most of the world would revert to friendly/guarded/afraid and only being slightly worried about my warmongering. It made completely annihilating 2 douchebag civs totally manageable. This completely backfired and might need to be fixed. I had heavy warmonger penalties and everyone hated me, then I liberated a city for the first time. This caused everyone to go neutral towards me and the next time I burned a city, the remaining major powers on my landmass all went to war against me. Speedball posted:...jeez, how many civs total are in your world? That is a lot of guys who hate you at once. There were 22 at first, I think there's 14 left now.
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Oct 10, 2013 22:49
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How do worker improvements work, do I get a benefit from things connected by roads etc. only when its built under a city's area of influence or anywhere?
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Oct 11, 2013 01:43
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I think Polynesia's Moai statues need to be able to be built along with other improvements on a tile. Unless you're on an island map the coastal tiles are rare enough that I shouldn't have to choose between certain upgrades and a Moai. Does anyone else think it would be game-breaking? It's hard for me to see it that way with how good Poland is for getting policies.
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Oct 11, 2013 01:47
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KKKlean Energy posted:Question - does the upcoming patch affect Vanilla/GnK and can players who don't have BNW still sign up for the public beta? No and "Yes, with a but" respectively. You CAN sign up for the beta patch but it'll literally do nothing for you.
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Oct 11, 2013 01:57
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Relin posted:How do worker improvements work, do I get a benefit from things connected by roads etc. only when its built under a city's area of influence or anywhere? Improvements don't need to be connected to a road. Roads are just for connecting cities to each other. Other than roads, improvements can only be built within your borders and a city can only assign a citizen to work the improvement if it's within 3 hexes.
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Oct 11, 2013 02:09
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natetimm posted:I think Polynesia's Moai statues need to be able to be built along with other improvements on a tile. Unless you're on an island map the coastal tiles are rare enough that I shouldn't have to choose between certain upgrades and a Moai. Does anyone else think it would be game-breaking? It's hard for me to see it that way with how good Poland is for getting policies. I mean, as it is--since you don't actually need Culture any more for a Cultural Victory--they're stupid underpowered, but combining that with any other bonuses a tile might provide is silly because there's no opportunity cost involved. Moais do need some kind of change, though; as they stand now, there's also no opportunity cost because they don't give you poo poo. They should just change it to a Heiau or something: replaces Courthouses, costs 2 Maint instead of 3, produces 1 or 2 Faith. It would synergize really well with their "finish all your warmongering before anyone gets Optics" option, too. Polynesia's big thing is their UA, which allows you to control the pace of the entire game. Forget Moais, you literally own the entire world from 4000 BC on. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 02:23
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Playing as the Inca with both Mt. Kilimanjaro and the Fountain of Youth all to myself:
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Oct 11, 2013 05:33
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The White Dragon posted:They should just change it to a Heiau or something: replaces Courthouses, costs 2 Maint instead of 3, produces 1 or 2 Faith. It would synergize really well with their "finish all your warmongering before anyone gets Optics" option, too. That's just because you're a god drat maniac who goes around archer rushing people.
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Oct 11, 2013 05:38
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Phobophilia posted:That's just because you're a god drat maniac who goes around archer rushing people. 
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Oct 11, 2013 05:42
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Phobophilia posted:That's just because you're a god drat maniac who goes around archer rushing people. Better to pull out the weeds while they're young, before their roots dig in 
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Oct 11, 2013 05:44
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Odobenidae posted:Playing as the Inca with both Mt. Kilimanjaro and the Fountain of Youth all to myself: Man, all I can think of when I see those kinds of starts is "what if they were Spain?" With no real opportunities for terrace farm abuse, that start won't synergize well with your civ's abilities, but a Fountain start is a winning start no matter what, really. One of these days, I want to get a Spain super start just so I can find out how far I can break the game. One time I had a start with El Dorodo, and that's a lot of fun because you get double the gold from it (1000 gold). Being able to buy 2 settlers and a worker on turn 5 is something else.
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Oct 11, 2013 05:47
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Man, all I can think of when I see those kinds of starts is "what if they were Spain?" With no real opportunities for terrace farm abuse, that start won't synergize well with your civ's abilities, but a Fountain start is a winning start no matter what, really. Spain was also the civ which could get most ridiculous in Civilization: Revolution, because they could build ocean-crossing units in 4000 BC. A Spanish player could discover Atlantis (3 free techs, always the cheapest ones) in the early game and end up 20 turns ahead of everyone else forever.
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Oct 11, 2013 05:53
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Man, all I can think of when I see those kinds of starts is "what if they were Spain?" With no real opportunities for terrace farm abuse, that start won't synergize well with your civ's abilities, but a Fountain start is a winning start no matter what, really. I've had a Capital on Mines, 2nd City on El Dorado, 1500 gold start. It's absurd. Completely breaks the game.
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Oct 11, 2013 05:53
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I started a game earlier today as Mongolia on emperor where I went straight for honor and conquered Spain and Assyria in 80 turns or so using only archers, spearmen, warriors and Khans. It left me with 4 strong cities (2 puppets without courthouses), an army and 7 luxuries, but I spawned a coalition between germany, portugal, england, and rome who hated warmongers so much that they warmongered me 4 at a time, making trade impossible (resulting in a deficit which really hosed me) and ultimately eradicating me about 15 turns away from keshiks  . In some respects I was way ahead of where I'd have been building cities myself, but I got hosed diplomatically and economically. It seems that classical warmongering is really crippled by the lack of courthouses and the relatively crippling warmonger penalties that you can't do much about, and once I was fighting a defensive war against all the anti-warmonger warmongers even with roads and markets up I was losing tons of gold per turn just maintaining the now totally inadequate army.
poverty goat fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 05:54
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gggiiimmmppp posted:I started a game earlier today as Mongolia on emperor where I went straight for honor and conquered Spain and Assyria in 80 turns or so using only archers, spearmen, warriors and Khans. It left me with 4 strong cities (2 puppets without courthouses), an army and 7 luxuries, but I spawned a coalition between germany, portugal, england, and rome who hated warmongers so much that they warmongered me 4 at a time, making trade impossible (resulting in a deficit which really hosed me) and ultimately eradicating me about 15 turns away from keshiks I don't think it's a good idea to start poo poo as Mongolia without Keshiks. A human-controlled Keshik is the best unit until Artillery and you can tech to it by 1 AD, but before that point the Mongols don't have enough going for them in warfare.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:07
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Man, all I can think of when I see those kinds of starts is "what if they were Spain?" With no real opportunities for terrace farm abuse, that start won't synergize well with your civ's abilities, but a Fountain start is a winning start no matter what, really. That reminds me- what Natural Wonders count as mountains for purposes of Observatories, Neuschwanstein etc.?
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Oct 11, 2013 06:08
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CommissarMega posted:That reminds me- what Natural Wonders count as mountains for purposes of Observatories, Neuschwanstein etc.? I think due to an oddity, any you can't walk over are counted as mountains. So oddly, the Barringer Crater is.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:10
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CommissarMega posted:That reminds me- what Natural Wonders count as mountains for purposes of Observatories, Neuschwanstein etc.?  --but almost none of them work for Wonders.Krakatoa does work with Wonders, though! Fur20 fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 06:10
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RagnarokAngel posted:I think due to an oddity, any you can't walk over are counted as mountains. So oddly, the Barringer Crater is. Every single natural wonder is impassable. The game is just inconsistent with regards to wonders.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:13
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Chamale posted:I don't think it's a good idea to start poo poo as Mongolia without Keshiks. A human-controlled Keshik is the best unit until Artillery and you can tech to it by 1 AD, but before that point the Mongols don't have enough going for them in warfare. Well I couldn't have done what I did without Khans. The ability to let 3/4 of the siege rest for a turn to heal them halfway back to full without missing a beat goes a long way toward taking a city with walls using spearmen. I wound up with 4 Khans from the initial conquest, and turning some of them into citadels was how I repelled the initial counterattack. By round 2, though, Germany was all pikemen and swords/longswords backed by catapults and composite bows while I was still using warriors and spearmen, now too broke to even upgrade my spears to pikes. I feel like I'd have made it to keshiks if I had iron to upgrade my warriors but I had no such luck. It was my first serious attempt warmongering so early in the game or going straight for honor, but I really don't see how another civ would overcome the diplomatic/economic problems I ran into (rolling Greece might have gotten me more mileage out of the spearmen, though). poverty goat fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 06:14
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Sounds like you're underbuilding ranged units. That's really the key to successful warfare. If you want early war, tech for Mining-Wheel-Masonry-Construction to get Compbows out, they are a big step up from regular archers and are useful for a long long time.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:20
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Actually hotels and airports generate tourism from tile improvements. So Polynesia's Moai can be used to generate late-game tourism in surprising amounts.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:23
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Speedball posted:Actually hotels and airports generate tourism from tile improvements. So Polynesia's Moai can be used to generate late-game tourism in surprising amounts. I guess. Still, once you actually build those Hotels and Airports, you'll be generating like 200-500 Tourism/turn without Chateaus or Moais and that extra 10-20 empire wide isn't really gonna make a difference.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:32
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Speedball posted:Actually hotels and airports generate tourism from tile improvements. So Polynesia's Moai can be used to generate late-game tourism in surprising amounts. the OP posted:Playing as Polynesia on an archipelago map is almost cheating SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 06:45
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Is true for more reasons than wayfaring. It also give a lot more chances to have narrow peninsulas in land masses, allowing you to build groups of moais that can make you an extra 10+ culture per turn.
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Oct 11, 2013 06:49
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Every single natural wonder is impassable. The game is just inconsistent with regards to wonders. RagnarokAngel posted:I think due to an oddity, any you can't walk over are counted as mountains. So oddly, the Barringer Crater is. That's what I mean- I remember being able to build Neuschwanstein (or maybe Machu Picchu, can't remember) and an an Observatory in a city next to Old Faithful 
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Oct 11, 2013 06:56
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There's at least one that's an actual mountain (Sinai, Uluru, or Sri Prada, I forget. It generated faith) that doesn't let you build on it.
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Oct 11, 2013 07:04
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:There's at least one that's an actual mountain (Sinai, Uluru, or Sri Prada, I forget. It generated faith) that doesn't let you build on it. I think it's all of them- I know I wasn't able to do jack with Mts. Fuji and Sinai.
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Oct 11, 2013 07:06
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Cynic Jester posted:I've had a Capital on Mines, 2nd City on El Dorado, 1500 gold start. It's absurd. Completely breaks the game. I don't get it. How is it broken? What are you gonna spend it on? Gold costs for things are so absurd you're only going to get one or two items.
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Oct 11, 2013 07:32
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Bloodly posted:I don't get it. How is it broken? What are you gonna spend it on? Gold costs for things are so absurd you're only going to get one or two items. Unless he's playing on Marathon, that's like two Settlers before you should even be able to have a single one. If Quick? poo poo.
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Oct 11, 2013 07:34
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Bloodly posted:I don't get it. How is it broken? What are you gonna spend it on? Gold costs for things are so absurd you're only going to get one or two items. 1500 is a lot of money in the early game. Gold costs are mostly within reason and being able to get 2 or 3 settlers super early saves you from spending the food and production on them in your capital, which is huge. With 1500 gold you could conceivably get your 4 core cities up with literally no investment from your capital, allowing you to build a wonder or something else as well. Steal a worker or two from city states and you can get such a massive head start that it's pretty much game over from the get-go. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 07:42
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Phobophilia posted:Sounds like you're underbuilding ranged units. That's really the key to successful warfare. If you want early war, tech for Mining-Wheel-Masonry-Construction to get Compbows out, they are a big step up from regular archers and are useful for a long long time. Why wait for composite bows? Forget waiting for masonry>construction and use chariots and spears. I actually like chariots a lot. They're cheaper, come sooner, have twice the movement and are only a single point weaker. Totally worth it imo.
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Oct 11, 2013 08:36
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I don't like Chariots unless I'm playing as a civ that has ranged Knight UUs. Just a waste of promotions, and they're pretty unreliable since you need a (fairly common, but I've had games on Large Legendary Start maps where I had a critical shortage of them) strategic resource to build.
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Oct 11, 2013 08:42
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Just as a reminder, ranged promotions do translate to melee bonuses when they're upgraded to a melee unit. The prerequisites don't translate over though, so if you're barrage 2 you can't get drill 3 without getting 1 and 2 first, I don't think. But you should still get the combat bonus. But this does mean you can get Barrage 3 and then upgrade and get march or whatever on your melee unit, I think.
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Oct 11, 2013 08:55
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Admittedly they don't have the longevity of the archer line so just take healing promotions and delete survivors when the war is over to save gpt. The goal is to take that juicy capital next door not make legacy super-units. I usually don't go to war that early anyway for a whole bunch of reasons but on the occasions I have it's either basic archers or chariots. a force of composites just takes too long to get up and running and you have to go through stupid masonry first. At that point I'd just wait for trebs honestly.
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Oct 11, 2013 08:59
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Just as a reminder, ranged promotions do translate to melee bonuses when they're upgraded to a melee unit. The prerequisites don't translate over though, so if you're barrage 2 you can't get drill 3 without getting 1 and 2 first, I don't think. But you should still get the combat bonus. But this does mean you can get Barrage 3 and then upgrade and get march or whatever on your melee unit, I think. Weirdly enough, I like mounted units for defense since they get +1 Sight to push back the fog of war. It's not quite the +2 Sight of Scouts, but at least they have some meat on them and if barbarians spawn something you don't like, it's easy to stall them with your zone of control. I've just never really been a fan of them as offensive units, even if I recognize the usefulness of their mobility. As far as I'm concerned, melee units are there to tank and Mounted really can't do that. Plus I really like legacy armies and I have little patience for grinding up newcomers, which is what a freshly-minted Horseman looks like to me next to a Cover II Swordsman.
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Oct 11, 2013 09:20
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I keep forgetting that BNW chariots, unlike Vanilla chariots, don't utterly suck. I'm pretty sure that back then, Chariots and Archers had the same strength.
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Oct 11, 2013 09:23
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 I'm so terrible at this game. I captured a city and set it to Raze, then I transferred my entire air-wing and 4 nukes to it, and entirely forgot it was razing  Does anyone have a link to a Venice strategy, I think a complete one was posted like 30 pages ago but I can't find it. I feel pretty much like I don't know what I'm doing for the first ~100 moves without a guide.
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Oct 11, 2013 10:17
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Phobophilia posted:I keep forgetting that BNW chariots, unlike Vanilla chariots, don't utterly suck. I'm pretty sure that back then, Chariots and Archers had the same strength. Pretty sure you could put together a horrible War Chariot rush as Egypt now. I'll have to give it a go sometime.
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Oct 11, 2013 11:26
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What the gently caress, Firaxis. You have John Cage as a Great Musician, but don't have his produced work be 4'33? I'm sorry, but this is just plain wrong.
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Oct 11, 2013 11:58
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