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jeffersonlives posted:I would be absolutely stunned if Vince or Stephanie even know who Samoa Joe is. As the story goes, another writer brought him up first which lead the other two on a tangent. Like I said though, I take that story with a grain of salt because of the source.
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Oct 13, 2013 19:28
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Given how they brought in CM Punk to gently caress him around and fire him before Heyman took an interest and the booking of Daniel Bryan was "Look at this Indie geek get pinned by Darren Young after a slap" I'd say Vince knew about them and hated them for gaining momentum among wrestling fans during a time when Vince decided that everyone wanted barely trained Roidy Magoos.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:02
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Gonzo McFee posted:Given how they brought in CM Punk to gently caress him around and fire him before Heyman took an interest and the booking of Daniel Bryan was "Look at this Indie geek get pinned by Darren Young after a slap" I'd say Vince knew about them and hated them for gaining momentum among wrestling fans during a time when Vince decided that everyone wanted barely trained Roidy Magoos. They didn't bring those guys in specifically for those reasons. They brought them in because they were recommended and good, but that's not Vince and that's never been Vince, and then after they got over on their own they were punished for that, which probably was Vince but has nothing to do with Vince watching ROH tapes. The closest thing to "look at us show you how useless this indy geek is" was Low Ki/Kaval, but I even think most of that was "he's over because he's really good and he's not supposed to be, time for burial" (combined with him getting in the doghouse over making TNA references).
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Oct 13, 2013 20:05
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sticklefifer posted:Very recently. It was the Raw in Toronto when Cesaro did that massive Giant Swing on Santino. The crowd was doing that thing where they didn't care so they tried to amuse themselves with a random chant, and Cesaro brought them back into it. The best part about this is the "We The People" catchphrase is over in Canada.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:11
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jeffersonlives posted:They didn't bring those guys in specifically for those reasons. They brought them in because they were recommended and good, but that's not Vince and that's never been Vince, and then after they got over on their own they were punished for that, which probably was Vince but has nothing to do with Vince watching ROH tapes. The closest thing to "look at us show you how useless this indy geek is" was Low Ki/Kaval, but I even think most of that was "he's over because he's really good and he's not supposed to be, time for burial" (combined with him getting in the doghouse over making TNA references). And Colt "Scotty Goldman" Cabana.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:18
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Manwithastick posted:What was the last holy poo poo chant we had on WWE tv? The Mania 25 MITB match had one when Shelton Benjamin did a dive off of a ladder.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:25
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Gonzo McFee posted:And Colt "Scotty Goldman" Cabana. I like Colt as a fun indy midcard guy, but Colt got about as much of a chance in WWE as he should have gotten as a wrestler. His best chance was as an announcer, and that's the job where Vince changes his mind about everyone but Cole constantly.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:31
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jeffersonlives posted:I like Colt as a fun indy midcard guy, but Colt got about as much of a chance in WWE as he should have gotten as a wrestler. His best chance was as an announcer, and that's the job where Vince changes his mind about everyone but Cole constantly. From what I can remember Colt got squashed by Umaga one night and then lost a Battle Royal and never got seen again.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:33
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jeffersonlives posted:I like Colt as a fun indy midcard guy, but Colt got about as much of a chance in WWE as he should have gotten as a wrestler. His best chance was as an announcer, and that's the job where Vince changes his mind about everyone but Cole constantly. Colt would be filling the same spot/niche as Santino. Comedy midcarder with goofy spots that makes people laugh. Unfortunately for Colt that sort of gimmick isn't really one where they need more than one guy that can do it.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:40
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Gonzo McFee posted:From what I can remember Colt got squashed by Umaga one night and then lost a Battle Royal and never got seen again. He was on television for maybe a month or two in the summer, got pulled from television as a wrestler to go back to FCW since they were looking at him more as an announcer by that point, then they used him as a jobber for Umaga and released him. But yeah, what I'm basically saying is that Colt really isn't a good enough worker or overall package to indicate that he really deserved much more of a chance than that, in comparison to someone like Kaval who is really awesome in the ring and got crazy over quick, whatever other stuff he may have going against him. Colt could have stuck around and been okay but he was never going to be more than a prelim dude.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:43
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jeffersonlives posted:He was on television for maybe a month or two in the summer, got pulled from television as a wrestler to go back to FCW since they were looking at him more as an announcer by that point, then they used him as a jobber for Umaga and released him. But yeah, what I'm basically saying is that Colt really isn't a good enough worker or overall package to indicate that he really deserved much more of a chance than that, in comparison to someone like Kaval who is really awesome in the ring and got crazy over quick, whatever other stuff he may have going against him. Colt could have stuck around and been okay but he was never going to be more than a prelim dude. Colt is a much better talker and has more charisma than Low Ki, and I'm not sure I'd say he got over. He got a lot of internet fans to vote for him, but internet fans tend to vote for internet darlings to sock it to Vince. Cabana is the kind of guy who makes a good jobber in the WWE and they never really seemed to know what to do with him, which is why his direction changed a few times and he got cut.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:45
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jeffersonlives posted:I like Colt as a fun indy midcard guy, but Colt got about as much of a chance in WWE as he should have gotten as a wrestler. His best chance was as an announcer, and that's the job where Vince changes his mind about everyone but Cole constantly. You'd have a point if Colt had, you know, more than three minutes of screen time total. Not to mention all the casual antisemitism backstage.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:46
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sticklefifer posted:Very recently. It was the Raw in Toronto when Cesaro did that massive Giant Swing on Santino. The crowd was doing that thing where they didn't care so they tried to amuse themselves with a random chant, and Cesaro brought them back into it. I think we might have finally found the solution to stupid mark chants - just have Cesaro come out during the match and put one of the guys in a giant swing. Doesn't matter if it's some boring Khali/Hornswoggle/Santino vs 3MB match, another Kofi Kingston match or heck, even a Divas match. After all, he wouldn't really be physically attacking any women, just causing some motion sickness.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:47
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MassRafTer posted:Cabana is the kind of guy who makes a good jobber in the WWE and they never really seemed to know what to do with him, which is why his direction changed a few times and he got cut. This is pretty much that I'm saying! Big Coffin Hunter posted:You'd have a point if Colt had, you know, more than three minutes of screen time total. Not to mention all the casual antisemitism backstage. The point is that "Colt never had any chance to be more than a prelim guy because that package of talent in WWE is a prelim guy at best and usually released." We're talking specifically about guys that were killed for being indyriffic; that's not Colt.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:48
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jeffersonlives posted:The point is that "Colt never had any chance to be more than a prelim guy because that package of talent in WWE is a prelim guy at best and usually released." We're talking specifically about guys that were killed for being indyriffic; that's not Colt. Oh yeah, I wouldn't put Cabana in that category at all.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:50
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Personally believe Colt/Spears/Bradley were all called up to fail more because they were popular in OVW moreso than INDY INDY INDY. They were pretty much called up right after the FCW move if I'm remembering correctly.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:56
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Also why do people look at Matthew Randazzo as credible at all??? edit: well maybe nobody here does. HulkaMatt fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 13, 2013 21:03
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Grendels Dad posted:That's the first thing this discussion had me thinking of. I wasn't watching TNA at the time but the reactions to that match here made me seek it out, and his look after that spot was amazing. Like he was stunned at the realization that he didn't just cripple himself, mixed with the realization how not worth it that stunt was. Out of curiosity, what match was it? I really wanna see it now
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Oct 13, 2013 22:30
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All the talk about Kaval, I missed Low Ki's entire WWE run, what actually happend and was he legitimately over?
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Oct 13, 2013 22:43
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Bigass Moth posted:All the talk about Kaval, I missed Low Ki's entire WWE run, what actually happend and was he legitimately over? He won NXT which required a vote by the fans at the time so he was over enough to do that. How over that required him to be is debatable I guess.
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Oct 13, 2013 22:45
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The whole thing with LayCool where they were cartoonishly evil, but legitimately seemed to care about their pet wrestler Low Ki was fun.
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Oct 13, 2013 22:48
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Bigass Moth posted:All the talk about Kaval, I missed Low Ki's entire WWE run, what actually happend and was he legitimately over? They signed Low Ki in late-2008 because they wanted to create a masked heel luchador foil for Rey Mysterio and that was who Rey recommended. While they were working that out, Low Ki blew out his knee in FCW. When he came back many many months later, they no longer wanted to do the masked heel foil for Rey Mysterio thing, so after he floundered in FCW for awhile they threw him on NXT as part of the Lay-Cool act. He won NXT over designated winner Alex Riley, and the whole act with Kaval and Lay-Cool included got pretty well over at the arenas (in part because it was a well-designed act and in part because Kaval was doing some really cool wrestling stuff), but he made a couple of his usual Low Ki piss off the bosses moves, most notably namedropping TNA in a freestyle promo. Immediately after NXT ended, they split him off from Lay-Cool, had him use his guaranteed Money in the Bank style shot from winning NXT at any title for a midcard IC title match which he lost, jobbed him out hardcore, and released him.
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Oct 13, 2013 22:51
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He also kicked Dolph's nose straight into his brain.
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Oct 13, 2013 23:05
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jeffersonlives posted:They signed Low Ki in late-2008 because they wanted to create a masked heel luchador foil for Rey Mysterio and that was who Rey recommended. While they were working that out, Low Ki blew out his knee in FCW. When he came back many many months later, they no longer wanted to do the masked heel foil for Rey Mysterio thing, so after he floundered in FCW for awhile they threw him on NXT as part of the Lay-Cool act. He won NXT over designated winner Alex Riley, and the whole act with Kaval and Lay-Cool included got pretty well over at the arenas (in part because it was a well-designed act and in part because Kaval was doing some really cool wrestling stuff), but he made a couple of his usual Low Ki piss off the bosses moves, most notably namedropping TNA in a freestyle promo. Immediately after NXT ended, they split him off from Lay-Cool, had him use his guaranteed Money in the Bank style shot from winning NXT at any title for a midcard IC title match which he lost, jobbed him out hardcore, and released him. Why didn't they just sign an actual Mexican masked wrestler for that role?
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Oct 13, 2013 23:14
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Bigass Moth posted:Why didn't they just sign an actual Mexican masked wrestler for that role? At the time, they wanted a flashy American style worker instead of a lucha style worker. It's not like it actually matters if the dude is under a mask.
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Oct 13, 2013 23:16
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FishBulb posted:He won NXT which required a vote by the fans at the time so he was over enough to do that. How over that required him to be is debatable I guess.
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Oct 13, 2013 23:19
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Pretty sure Low Ki wasn't cut but actually asked for his release. The best Low Ki reference was from the short lived WWE web series "Are You Serious" starring Road Dogg Josh Matthews and a puppet version of Triple H. The puppet was dressed up as Loki, the Marvel character in Thor and Avengers movies, for Halloween. The dialogue went something llike this. Josh: Who are you supposed to be? Puppet: Loki Josh: Wasn't he the winner of NXT season 2? Puppet: No, that's Kaval. budreck fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 13, 2013 23:23
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budreck posted:Pretty sure Low Ki wasn't cut but actually asked for his release. I am pretty sure he admitted that was false. He was fired.
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Oct 13, 2013 23:31
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Gonzo McFee posted:I'd say Vince knew about them and hated them for gaining momentum among wrestling fans during a time when Vince decided that everyone wanted barely trained Roidy Magoos. Wait, there was a time when Vince DIDN'T think this?
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Oct 13, 2013 23:40
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bobkatt013 posted:I am pretty sure he admitted that was false. He was fired. Yeah, I recall the story at the time was that he asked if he was being buried for pissing somebody off, they said no but that they just didn't have anything for him so he asked for his release. Since then, I'm pretty sure it came out that he asked if he was being buried for pissing somebody off, they said you sure are, then he got fired.
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Oct 13, 2013 23:57
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HulkaMatt posted:Personally believe Colt/Spears/Bradley were all called up to fail more because they were popular in OVW moreso than INDY INDY INDY. They were pretty much called up right after the FCW move if I'm remembering correctly. You could probably throw Brent Albright into that same camp a few years earlier. Heyman built OVW around Punk and Albright for a good while. Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I recall the story at the time was that he asked if he was being buried for pissing somebody off, they said no but that they just didn't have anything for him so he asked for his release. Since then, I'm pretty sure it came out that he asked if he was being buried for pissing somebody off, they said you sure are, then he got fired. I literally don't get guys like Low-Ki, Teddy Hart and Vampiro... It's not like it's even a secret that everyone hates them, you'd think eventually, when it's preventing you getting booked, you'd say "Hmm, maybe it's not them..."
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Oct 14, 2013 00:00
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Gaz-L posted:You could probably throw Brent Albright into that same camp a few years earlier. Heyman built OVW around Punk and Albright for a good while. It's simple: They're such marks for themselves that they literally cannot countenance the idea that they are the problem. And, in Vampiro's case, because he was a legit success in Mexico, he likely feels that he is justified even moreso than the other would be.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:14
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Gaz-L posted:I literally don't get guys like Low-Ki, Teddy Hart and Vampiro... It's not like it's even a secret that everyone hates them, you'd think eventually, when it's preventing you getting booked, you'd say "Hmm, maybe it's not them..." One of the most frustrating things I ever read was a quote by Teddy Hart shortly after he left WWE. This isn't verbatim, obviously, but I think it's a pretty accurate recall of the spirit of what he said: "I was standing in the back watching Triple H and Shawn Michaels wrestle, and I was amazed at what they were managing to do with so little. They didn't need high spots or big impressive flippy moves, they were using character and timing to bring the crowd along with them, and getting bigger reactions than anything I'd ever heard in a fast-paced match full of plenty of visually impressive moves. I really respected that, what they were able to achieve.... but that's not me, I gotta go out there and do my thing, and that's fast-paced matches full of plenty of visually impressive moves!" He was so, so, soooo close to "getting it" 
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Oct 14, 2013 00:23
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On the other hand, there are guys just as egotistical that have found success in wrestling. Hogan, Warrior, Kevin Nash, Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels to name a few.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:25
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budreck posted:On the other hand, there are guys just as egotistical that have found success in wrestling. Hogan, Warrior, Kevin Nash, Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels to name a few. They generally have phenomenal success to go along with the ego though.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:26
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Yeah, but it's funny how Michaels (for example) could go around pissing off everyone in the company but never got buried for it. Warrior too.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:35
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, but it's funny how Michaels (for example) could go around pissing off everyone in the company but never got buried for it. Warrior too. They usually waited until they were over enough to do it, though, didn't they? I never heard reports of Michaels being an rear end in a top hat while a Rocker.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:40
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Also, most of them had the sense to wait until they were bigger deals before they started throwing their weight around. However:Rodney the Piper posted:They usually waited until they were over enough to do it, though, didn't they? I never heard reports of Michaels being an rear end in a top hat while a Rocker. Michaels got fined by Bill Watts once for showing up late to a show and gave Watts poo poo years later about it when Watts worked for WWE. The Rockers also got fired insanely fast in their first shot in WWE for being stupid drunks. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 00:53
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Warrior got fired three different times (in 91, 92, and 96) for his poo poo and Michaels had several different planned comebacks during the Attitude Era (where he would have made shitloads of money) aborted because of his poo poo, so it's hard to say that they didn't get held back by their behavior.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:56
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epitasis posted:He also kicked Dolph's nose straight into his brain. This is so overblown. He's going for his cartwheel kick spot in the corner after an irish whip and Dolph just stops running and turns into it.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:59
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