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Nihilarian posted:^^^^^Glad to know I'm not the only one baffled by Quistis abandoning her duties. That's pretty much word for word my thoughts when I played that mission the last time I played. The thing to remember about Quisits is that at a staggering 18(!) years old, she is the oldest member of the party. She is a teenager, and teenagers are not exactly known for their ability to make rational, logical decisions. Hell, there are adults who can't do that reliably.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:29
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1st AD posted:FF8 is really dumb but the ride was real fun. You should give FF12:IZJS a shake if you can. I had no problem getting that thing running recently and I loved 100%ing that game when I've started FF12 twice before that and couldn't bring myself to finish it either time. The pacing is kinda weird though and it ends up feeling like 2/3rds or 1/2 a game. Ohtsam posted:You should try Radiant Historia Its really good except for the Rosch breakpoint where its clear they just stopped caring how to fix that and just said "it did, shut up"
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Oct 18, 2013 21:36
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Barudak posted:Its really good except for the Rosch breakpoint where its clear they just stopped caring how to fix that and just said "it did, shut up" Well it's established that affecting someone's life in one timeline can change it in the other, so making Rosch stop being a dumbass in one timeline made him stop being a dumbass in the other. Pretty simple.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:38
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Ohtsam posted:You should try Radiant Historia Part of RH's problem is that it moves backwards. It's more concerned about why the characters act the way they do during the game because of what happened to them in their pasts than it is with progression and change. It's a mystery that you have to work backwards to reach the solution, and I just don't dig that.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:45
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FF8 gave us the Deep Sea Research Center, the best dungeon in the FF series...fact?
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Oct 18, 2013 21:46
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The White Dragon posted:Radiant Historia was cute but I don't think it was nearly as groundbreaking as people tout it as having been. Stocke was basically a bland Ryudo, a fairly boring professional who gets the job done and has A Past but it's like I don't give two shits about your past, who do you BECOME? I dunno, I really appreciated that bit because it seemed like an interesting use of the time travel mechanic. You see what people do, get close to learn what they missed out on/failed at/were held back by, then you go back to pivotal moments in their life and subtly change it with your new found foreknowledge. I still don't like Asht though because any character who is just hours and hours of "I know more but I'm not telling until the villain gets around to revealing it!" is incredibly annoying. Except FFX. For some reason I absolutely adored it there.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:47
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Barudak posted:Its really good except for the Rosch breakpoint where its clear they just stopped caring how to fix that and just said "it did, shut up" Radiant Historia's time travel follows a very specific idea: There are only two timelines and they broke at a specific significant point. Both timelines are desperately trying to reconcile with one another and eventually they will because you're not able to permanently split timelines like that. All events will eventually happen in some way in both timelines. If someone dies in Timeline A they will eventually die in Timeline B. However Stocke (and a specific villain) have the ability to alter a timeline. Once they do that alteration overrides everything else and the alternate timeline adjusts itself to match that change. If you save someone's life in one timeline they will not die in the other timeline unless the villain also alters the timeline to make them die. This will include changing the decisions people make which would otherwise lead to their deaths. Radiant Historia is one of the few time travel stories I like because it has a fair basic concept that it tends to execute well, which is generally the best way to handle time travel. Getting bogged down in paradoxes just drags a story down. The White Dragon posted:Part of RH's problem is that it moves backwards. It's more concerned about why the characters act the way they do during the game because of what happened to them in their pasts than it is with progression and change. It's a mystery that you have to work backwards to reach the solution, and I just don't dig that. All the characters get development and change though. The central idea of Stocke's plot is that he eventually lets go of his past and becomes the new person he is now instead of the person he was before. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 21:50
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Pesky Splinter posted:Legacy of Kain HISTORY ABHORS A PARADOX. Goddamn would I kill for another LoK game.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:09
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SpazmasterX posted:HISTORY ABHORS A PARADOX. So have you heard about the new Nosgoth game? I hope you like F2P competitive multiplayer games.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:11
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Sunning posted:Quistis also leaves her post during the mission because she feels sorry for insulting Rinoa. Post-leaving aside, this part always irritated me because not only was Quistis completely right in that Rinoa had no idea what the gently caress she was doing, but she wasn't even that mean. It was a reality check, more or less. I guess we're supposed to think that Quistis was being too harsh because Rinoa started pouting like a child?  Mr. Leonheart posted:The thing to remember about Quisits is that at a staggering 18(!) years old, she is the oldest member of the party. She is a teenager, and teenagers are not exactly known for their ability to make rational, logical decisions. Hell, there are adults who can't do that reliably. That's very true, but I don't feel that Final Fantasy has ever really acknowledged the fact that most of the playable cast tend to be teenagers and will make dumb mistakes because of that. The same goes for a lot of other JRPGs, now that I think about it. At best you'll get a one-off remark talking about those darn kids and their crazy antics or something.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:20
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It really only makes sense as a really hamfisted way to justify the disc 1 end dungeon. Quistis even explicitly tells Zell and Selphie to stay behind to man the gate while she goes to apologize, then the scene basically jump-cuts to all three of them outside anyway.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:25
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ImpAtom posted:So have you heard about the new Nosgoth game? Not a LoK game. 
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Oct 19, 2013 00:07
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porfiria posted:No, subscription numbers are presently at about 2/3rds lifetime peak back in '08 or so. This decline has been fairly steady for the past three years, and may have more to do with structural changes in gaming (League of Legends); I'd say it's incredibly unclear if any future MMO will ever be able to seriously compete with WOW--because the market may simply no longer exist. Pretty much this. The population dropoff in WoW isn't proportional with gains in the playerbase of other games, it's usually just people not playing an MMO anymore.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:11
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Silly Voodoo posted:That's very true, but I don't feel that Final Fantasy has ever really acknowledged the fact that most of the playable cast tend to be teenagers and will make dumb mistakes because of that. The same goes for a lot of other JRPGs, now that I think about it. At best you'll get a one-off remark talking about those darn kids and their crazy antics or something. In ways, I kind of wish we could get a Shinji Ikari-like protagonist for one of the main series games. In others, I immediately recognize how horribly such a concept would be executed AND received by the gaming population at large. 
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Oct 19, 2013 01:06
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Regalingualius posted:In ways, I kind of wish we could get a Shinji Ikari-like protagonist for one of the main series games. It isn't Shinji Ikari but Tales of the Abyss opens up with a complete whiny unlikable poo poo of a protagonist and it really isn't in the game's favor.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:09
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I like the characters of 8 - as starting points. The only one that got any character development was Squall, and it happened in the time it took you to swap between disc 2 and disc 3. The other characters needed to have some importance, and not in the hokey "we grew up in an orphanage together but forgot." way. I swear, that scene in Trabia Garden is my least favorite scene in the series, period, just for what it reveals about the plot. As far as Quistis goes, shockingly she's actually portrayed pretty consistently. She's demoted for not having leadership skills, and that seems like bullshit because she just shot a giant mechanical spider dead with a gatling gun and if that doesn't scream leadership potential I don't know what does. Then you give her a leadership position, and she blows it big time. She didn't even have the presence of mind to tell the others to stay in position. They weren't mean to Rinoa! Why do they have to follow you to apologize? Sadly, FF8 seems filled with moments like that. For the record, FF8 used to be my favorite Final Fantasy, back when I played it as a kid. When I went back to it as an adult, I understood it better and it lost a lot of charm. I still enjoyed it, will probably play it again, but I can't deny it's a train wreck.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:40
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Nihilarian posted:I like the characters of 8 - as starting points. The only one that got any character development was Squall, and it happened in the time it took you to swap between disc 2 and disc 3. The other characters not having any development or really mattering is actually a deliberate choice by the creators. They thought that having other characters get things like subplots, sidequests or even their own theme songs (because you'll notice none of the other PCs have themes in 8) would 'distract' the player from Squall and Rinoa and their amazing love story. That's why every male character except Squall is some combination of stupid, comic relief, or obstacle for Squall to demonstrate his worth by beating.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:57
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Actually, Seifer had more time spent on him than any of your characters except Squall. Which I guess makes sense because he is the counterpart love story.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:00
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12 sort of does that unlikable poo poo thing, though not to the extreme of a Shinji or something. For the first two thirds of the game Vaan is clearly out of his depth and is constantly being corrected, chastized, or bailed out by Basch (who he blames for killing his brother incorrectly), Balthier (who is basically everything he aspires to be), and Ashe (who is the game's actual protagonist and is mature/wise beyond her years despite being similar to him in age), and Penelo (ditto). He's still a nice guy, though, and he ends up becoming an RPG Hero by the end.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:03
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Mr. Maltose posted:Actually, Seifer had more time spent on him than any of your characters except Squall. Which I guess makes sense because he is the counterpart love story. Ah yes, Seifer and Raijin, the saddest tale of unrequited love.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:04
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Mr. Maltose posted:Actually, Seifer had more time spent on him than any of your characters except Squall. Which I guess makes sense because he is the counterpart love story. Yeah, and Seifer gets his poo poo ruined by Squall numerous times so that the audience "knows" that Squall is way more important than him. Of course the actual end result is that Seifer is probably the most popular character from that game because his arc is, you know, an actual arc and not just a single arbitrary change that happens between discs.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:07
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It's obviously a comment on the inferiority of Courtly Love to hot makeouts. A good message, a message for the ages.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:15
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Defiance Industries posted:The other characters not having any development or really mattering is actually a deliberate choice by the creators. They thought that having other characters get things like subplots, sidequests or even their own theme songs (because you'll notice none of the other PCs have themes in 8) would 'distract' the player from Squall and Rinoa and their amazing love story. That's why every male character except Squall is some combination of stupid, comic relief, or obstacle for Squall to demonstrate his worth by beating.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:58
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Mr. Maltose posted:It's obviously a comment on the inferiority of Courtly Love to hot makeouts. A good message, a message for the ages. I misread that as Courtney Love and was incredibly confused. But seeing as we're talking about FF8, I figured it might make sense if you had played the game.
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Oct 19, 2013 03:01
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FF8 has many messages.
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Oct 19, 2013 03:03
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Nihilarian posted:The obviously incomplete characters distract me more than any subplot ever could. If you're really trying to focus on Squall x Rinoa, why make other characters in the first place? I'd have prefered it if the other four were NPC's (sorry Selphie). Or if it had dozens of temporary characters coming and going. I could get behind that. Four characters you have for the entire game who never grow as people? The wrong way to do it. It's just an objectively bad idea. It seems like the kind of thing people who write lovely self-insert fanfic do, not people who get paid to do that poo poo. It gives the impression that the writers were threatened by the idea a player might actually like a character more than they do Squall so they wanted to prevent that at all costs. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Oct 19, 2013 |
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Oct 19, 2013 03:08
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Defiance Industries posted:It's just an objectively bad idea. It seems like the kind of thing people who write lovely self-insert fanfic do, not people who get paid to do that poo poo. It gives the impression that the writers were threatened by the idea a player might actually like a character more than they do Squall so they wanted to prevent that at all costs. That was more or less the design philosophy of the characters, actually. Nomura mentioned something about specifically designing Squall and Rinoa to overshadow the rest of the characters.
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Oct 19, 2013 03:36
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Regalingualius posted:In ways, I kind of wish we could get a Shinji Ikari-like protagonist for one of the main series games. I was going to say something about Dawn of the New World's protagonist, but god if I remember anything about that game outside of courage.
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Oct 19, 2013 03:40
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Barudak posted:I still don't like Asht though because any character who is just hours and hours of "I know more but I'm not telling until the villain gets around to revealing it!" is incredibly annoying. It's because the main person doing it there was Auron, and Auron is the best. 
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Oct 19, 2013 03:51
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The White Dragon posted:Ah yes, Seifer and Raijin, the saddest tale of unrequited love. ...and I'm not sure which would have been funnier.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:02
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I honestly couldn't remember if Raijin was the man or the woman who talked in all caps until I googled it. "LOVE!"
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Oct 19, 2013 04:17
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Mr. Maltose posted:FF8 has many messages. Unlike FF10-2, which has
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Oct 19, 2013 04:17
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I was way more surprised at Auron telling Tidus that Jecht was Sin over Jecht being Sin. I had gotten way too used to people knowing poo poo never saying or completely obfuscating whatever they were talking about that I glaze over at any mention of, with quotes, "him", "them", "it", or any similarly awful attempt at foreshadowing. FF10 was decent with keeping that poo poo down or at least giving some reasoning like why nobody said Yuna would die killing Sin. There is that historian dude who iirc knows basically everything but I'd let him slide since he's backstory.txt.wav and not really part of the narrative.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:18
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Azure_Horizon posted:That was more or less the design philosophy of the characters, actually. Nomura mentioned something about specifically designing Squall and Rinoa to overshadow the rest of the characters.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:20
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GreatRedSpirit posted:I was way more surprised at Auron telling Tidus that Jecht was Sin over Jecht being Sin. I had gotten way too used to people knowing poo poo never saying or completely obfuscating whatever they were talking about that I glaze over at any mention of, with quotes, "him", "them", "it", or any similarly awful attempt at foreshadowing. Heck if anything just flat out saying that just added to the mystery. Why is he Sin, and how on earth did he get that way.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:23
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GreatRedSpirit posted:I was way more surprised at Auron telling Tidus that Jecht was Sin over Jecht being Sin. I had gotten way too used to people knowing poo poo never saying or completely obfuscating whatever they were talking about that I glaze over at any mention of, with quotes, "him", "them", "it", or any similarly awful attempt at foreshadowing. FF10 was decent with keeping that poo poo down or at least giving some reasoning like why nobody said Yuna would die killing Sin. There is that historian dude who iirc knows basically everything but I'd let him slide since he's backstory.txt.wav and not really part of the narrative.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:04
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GreatRedSpirit posted:I was way more surprised at Auron telling Tidus that Jecht was Sin over Jecht being Sin. I had gotten way too used to people knowing poo poo never saying or completely obfuscating whatever they were talking about that I glaze over at any mention of, with quotes, "him", "them", "it", or any similarly awful attempt at foreshadowing. FF10 was decent with keeping that poo poo down or at least giving some reasoning like why nobody said Yuna would die killing Sin. There is that historian dude who iirc knows basically everything but I'd let him slide since he's backstory.txt.wav and not really part of the narrative. Yeah, what I like about Auron is that he doesn't really hide that much. What he does hide (the part about sacrificing a Guardian) didn't really make sense for them not to know anyway. Surely people would've noticed that both the summoner and guardian don't come back, wouldn't they? Also there's surely more than one guardian at one point.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:22
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Everybody but Tidus knows the final summoning kills the summoner, that was the big revelation to Tidus / the player in that desert Albhed place. Nobody ever said it prior because everybody but Tidus knew and nobody told him because its depressing stuff. The part where a guardian becomes the final aeon (and Sin) isn't known except to Auron and when Yunalesca tells Yuna she needs to sacrifice somebody else too she decides to gently caress that poo poo and beat up Yunalesca instead. Now that is withholding information until a villain presents it but Auron probably wanted Yuna and Friends to get it straight from the horses mouth. Plus it was handled well; No obnoxious foreshadowing and it helps define a good turning point in the story.
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Oct 19, 2013 06:00
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Sorry to interrupt the redeeming part of FFX chat, but what are the chances SE just coming clean with whatever monster they're currently calling FFXV and release actual hard information about the game in the remainder of this year?
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Oct 19, 2013 06:13
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GreatRedSpirit posted:Everybody but Tidus knows the final summoning kills the summoner, that was the big revelation to Tidus / the player in that desert Albhed place. Nobody ever said it prior because everybody but Tidus knew and nobody told him because its depressing stuff. The part where a guardian becomes the final aeon (and Sin) isn't known except to Auron and when Yunalesca tells Yuna she needs to sacrifice somebody else too she decides to gently caress that poo poo and beat up Yunalesca instead. Now that is withholding information until a villain presents it but Auron probably wanted Yuna and Friends to get it straight from the horses mouth. Plus it was handled well; No obnoxious foreshadowing and it helps define a good turning point in the story. Yeah I know, I meant specifically the part about using a guardian as the final Aeon, which nobody in the party (other than Auron) knew. Something like that really should just be common knowledge.
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Oct 19, 2013 06:25
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