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UberJumper posted:I know there has been one or two little bumps, but how is the HH series not lining up? The biggest one I can think of is the inconsistency about what happens to Magnus. Traditionally and in False Gods, the attack on Prospero happens before the Dropsite Massacre at Istvaan V. Magnus finds out in advance about Horus' treachery and then uses magic to warn the Emperor who doesn't believe him and sends Russ to burn his poo poo down. In the Outcast Dead, Magnus sends his message after Istvaan and arrives too late (but the Emperor still sends Russ). I don't mind if the new stuff doesn't match up with the old stuff but at the very least, I think the timeline should be consistent.
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Oct 21, 2013 05:01
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That's easily fixed by just ignoring The Outcast Dead.
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Oct 21, 2013 05:16
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^^^ I remember that Kegslayer, very jarring.Fried Chicken posted:Words That was all really interesting, thanks!
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Oct 21, 2013 05:36
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Fried Chicken posted:
I would love to see the rest, but what you've already posted is some really good stuff. At first I was seeing the edges of Lorgar's irises as his pupils which made him look very fanatical, but once I read your commentary I went back and saw it correctly. Those are very well-done pieces, my thanks for that effort in posting them.
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Oct 21, 2013 05:42
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VanSandman posted:Well he was basically ignoring them until they managed to interfere with what he was doing. After killing the Wolf who was fixing the Wulfen problem and wrecking his research, he knew his goals had been accomplished due to Tzeentchian prophesy powers. After that I got the impression that he was just running out the clock. Plus, you know, throwing Bjorn from the top of THE loving mountain was pretty cool, even cooler because Bjorn survived it. I like to think that the final sequence came down to... Three very pissed off to the point they might have well said "Skulls for the Skull throne" see their arch-enemy. Decked out in Terminator armor and use focused rage to fight a prince in Terminator armor. They hurt him but couldn't really do much damage. Then the mother loving Fel-hand shows up and dick kicks Magnus through a Thunderhawk, uses his plasma cannon to ignite the fuel tank Magnus was sitting in, and then the two proceeded to beat the ever living gently caress out of each other. If the Sons held out longer Magnus most assuredly would have killed Bjorn but 3 terminators and the great wolf kept a Prince out of the fight long enough for the Wolves to kick The Thousand Sons back into the warp with massive casualties, on both sides granted but the Wolves can recruit. The Sons can't. So compared to Angron we've learned physically Magnus isn't much more powerful than 3 elite terminators and the greatest of dreadnaughts. If there was a second or third Dreadnaught involved in the brawl it might have turned out differently.
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Oct 21, 2013 05:43
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I'm hanging this on the assumption that the Emperor powers the Astronomican to guide ships through the Warp, but a question that occurred when looking through Massacre: how did ships move through the Warp when the Emperor was an active part of the crusade, and also when the Emperor was pre-disposed working on the secret webway project beneath the palace?
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Oct 21, 2013 13:10
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Aries posted:I'm hanging this on the assumption that the Emperor powers the Astronomican to guide ships through the Warp, but a question that occurred when looking through Massacre: how did ships move through the Warp when the Emperor was an active part of the crusade, and also when the Emperor was pre-disposed working on the secret webway project beneath the palace? The Astronomican is actually independently powered. It's possible that the Emperor being on Terra boosts it in some way, but mainly it consists of thousands of psykers acting in concert to project it. The Emperor is involved somehow though, for example there's a sequence in a book I don't remember the name of where someone tries to power a machine with the Astronomican. By tapping into it as the rotations of the planets make the beam pass through Mars, a tech priest manages to resist infection by a warp virus because her labs are protected after being having the energy from the Astronomican pass through it.
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Oct 21, 2013 14:03
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I should clarify, when I said all the primarchs I should have said all of them revealed so far. You get the henchmen of the ones in the previous book, plus primarchs and henchmen for these. 4
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Oct 21, 2013 14:10
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Demiurge4 posted:The Astronomican is actually independently powered. It's possible that the Emperor being on Terra boosts it in some way, but mainly it consists of thousands of psykers acting in concert to project it. The Emperor is involved somehow though, for example there's a sequence in a book I don't remember the name of where someone tries to power a machine with the Astronomican. By tapping into it as the rotations of the planets make the beam pass through Mars, a tech priest manages to resist infection by a warp virus because her labs are protected after being having the energy from the Astronomican pass through it. Mechanicum
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Oct 21, 2013 15:02
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With regards to Magnus' strength, it's pretty clear that his physical form is a pale reflection of his actual form, stuck in the Warp. His manifestation on Fenris, while mighty, wasn't at full strength by a long shot. Plus Bjorn and his brothers have warding runes carved into their armor, so there's that. Go read Battle of the Fang, y'all. It, Wrath of Iron, and Helsreach are THE books to read out of the Space Marine Battles series.
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Oct 21, 2013 15:03
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Aries posted:I'm hanging this on the assumption that the Emperor powers the Astronomican to guide ships through the Warp, but a question that occurred when looking through Massacre: how did ships move through the Warp when the Emperor was an active part of the crusade, and also when the Emperor was pre-disposed working on the secret webway project beneath the palace? My understanding is that while the Astronomican is powered by the thousand psykers it consumes per day, it is focussed by the emperor's will. So when he was still gallivanting about he just used his mind to do it from a distance. The restriction of the throne being controlled at all times only became a thing once Magnus broke the webway cat-flap in the throne room. By the by, as of the present day of the setting, the Astronomican has eaten approximately three and a half billion people.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:35
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I'd put Legion of the Damned in there with these as well. Kersh is probably the most interesting Space Marine I've read about.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:38
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:By the by, as of the present day of the setting, the Astronomican has eaten approximately three and a half billion people. That's really good mileage, all things considered.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:43
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The throne is intense. Ask the Sigilite. Malcador turned into a fistful of dust when they unplugged him. But that could of been from Magnus fuckery, putting a hole in the dam. I believe I read somewhere that the Emperor had the best minds inside the webway and were modifying it for human use. Leads me to believe that the Golden Throne is an enormous entrance to the webway. But I'm sure this is common knowledge.
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Oct 21, 2013 17:10
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I thought the emperor was powering it during the great crusade because he was just that powerful. It was only after the HH that he needed the help of 10,000 psykers because he was a corpse.
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Oct 21, 2013 18:09
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Blacktoll posted:Leads me to believe that the Golden Throne is an enormous entrance to the webway. But I'm sure this is common knowledge. This is precisely correct. IIRC one of the major problems during the denouement of the Heresy was that it broke and daemons entered that area of the Webway. One of the things the Emperor is now doing is stopping it from continuing to tear open and allow daemons to spew out into the middle of the Himalayas.
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Oct 21, 2013 19:14
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Lyer posted:I thought the emperor was powering it during the great crusade because he was just that powerful. It was only after the HH that he needed the help of 10,000 psykers because he was a corpse. I think that during the crusade it was simply a stable portal that by design didn't allow for demons to come through.
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Oct 21, 2013 19:32
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Blacktoll posted:I think that during the crusade it was simply a stable portal that by design didn't allow for demons to come through. The webway gate and the Astronomican are two completely different things. One is a leftover Eldar artifact the Emperor found and the other is a deliberate construct designed to help human psykers navigate in the warp. It's basically a north star.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:00
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Blacktoll posted:The throne is intense. Ask the Sigilite. Malcador turned into a fistful of dust when they unplugged him. But that could of been from Magnus fuckery, putting a hole in the dam. I believe I read somewhere that the Emperor had the best minds inside the webway and were modifying it for human use. Leads me to believe that the Golden Throne is an enormous entrance to the webway. But I'm sure this is common knowledge. The Sigilite didn't crumble to dust from powering the astronomicon, he did it keeping the busted Webway closed since Magnus' fuckery had filled it with daemons.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:54
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Ego-bot posted:I'd put Legion of the Damned in there with these as well. Kersh is probably the most interesting Space Marine I've read about. Just finished this earlier today, and I agree that Kersh (and the excoriators in general) seem a breed apart from the subjects of other battle books. In fact, the relationship between Kersh and his command seemed more in line with Talon's warband than any loyalist group. I wonder how often these interior power struggles occur in loyalist chapters. Apart from that, the book was just pretty cool. While not explaining the legion in detail, it really hits home the atmosphere and effect they should have in the fluff.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:02
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MariusLecter posted:That's really good mileage, all things considered. Considering how often the Imperium has been willing to sacrifice entire hive worlds with several fold that population via Exterminatus just because small parts of the population have knowledge of Chaos, 3.5 billion people spread over 20,000 years is exceptional mileage to the point where it's basically trivial to them.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:25
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To be fair, given how the psykers that go into it are the ones that aren't trainable or pose a genuine risk to the fabric of reality for whatever reason it's downright offsetting the carbon footprint of a few planetary genocides just by shoving them into the shiney chair.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:19
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So if humanity is getting more and more psychic as time goes on, could they potentially all get absorbed into the Golden Throne by the Astronomican if there are not any non-psykers left? We don't know the process, only that they're sacrificed. It would be a funny way to wiped out humanity beyond war all the time.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:41
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Azubah posted:So if humanity is getting more and more psychic as time goes on, could they potentially all get absorbed into the Golden Throne by the Astronomican if there are not any non-psykers left? We don't know the process, only that they're sacrificed. It would be a funny way to wiped out humanity beyond war all the time. From what is said of the process, it is something that is done by people, not some prescient force of the astronomicon itself. More likely that it would simply turn off if the Imperium were to somehow run out of sacrifices. Alos, considering the Imperium consists of at least one million worlds (grabbed from lexicanum so who knows) it is unlikely that there will ever be a shortage of sacrifices.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:47
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Azubah posted:So if humanity is getting more and more psychic as time goes on, could they potentially all get absorbed into the Golden Throne by the Astronomican if there are not any non-psykers left? We don't know the process, only that they're sacrificed. It would be a funny way to wiped out humanity beyond war all the time. Keep in mind that not all psykers found are used to fuel the throne. Generally it's the generic dregs of the known psyker population that are deemed only useful for fueling the Throne. If psykers are located that are moderately (not excessively) powerful and/or have interesting special abilities, they'll usually be trained to some purpose. Beta/Alpha-level psykers usually get a bolt shell in the head before they can unwittingly open a major gateway to the Warp or destroy an entire hive by themselves.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:04
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A very, very few alpha or beta level psykers may become inquisitors, if they are trained from birth by the inquisition.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:43
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To be fair, if they are found it'd usually be by someone on a Blackship, at which point sufficient Pariah babysitters can sit nearby to guide them all the way to the Throne. Which is kind of the point of the Blackships.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:56
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Ahh, I was under the impression that the Golden Throne / Astronomicon were one in the same. Like, I understood that it is a choir of psykers but I thought it was near the Golden Throne. In hindsight I'm not sure how any of it is relevant. So, the Golden Throne was built ontop of the Webway portal that was found and then ruined from Magnus' fuckery?
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Oct 22, 2013 03:14
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I had the impression that the Golden Throne WAS the webway portal (taking the Golden Throne as the entire contraption and not just the seat the Emperor actually sits on).
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Oct 22, 2013 07:04
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Baron Bifford posted:I had the impression that the Golden Throne WAS the webway portal (taking the Golden Throne as the entire contraption and not just the seat the Emperor actually sits on). Yep. Why it was also a chair I don't know.
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Oct 22, 2013 07:14
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I read somewhere that the human-built portions of the Webway were not as tough as the rest of it, so the Emperor had to constantly bolster it with his psychic power. I guess this meant that he had to be sitting there round-the-clock and wanted to be comfy.VanSandman posted:A very, very few alpha or beta level psykers may become inquisitors, if they are trained from birth by the inquisition. Speaking of psyker ratings, what level were Malcador and the Primarchs? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 07:22
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Abett uses omega level psykers, what the hell is that?
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Oct 22, 2013 08:05
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I thought omegas are supposed to be the pariahs.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:23
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Baron Bifford posted:Speaking of psyker ratings, what level were Malcador and the Primarchs? Well Malcador was supposed to be the most powerful psyker in existence bar the emperor, so I would say alpha. Magnus also was certainly right at the top. The rest would most likely range a little bit below although most of their powers would be unconscious actions that they just did as part of their makeup.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:52
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Dravs posted:Well Malcador was supposed to be the most powerful psyker in existence bar the emperor, so I would say alpha. Magnus also was certainly right at the top. The rest would most likely range a little bit below although most of their powers would be unconscious actions that they just did as part of their makeup. The Emperor and Magnus can't really be compared to the scales used to measure human psykers. Magnus is to psker ability what the Lion is to strategy, etc. He's a demi-god who stands head and shoulders above the other demi-gods in his psychic might. And yet, in A Thousand Sons he gets helplessly pinned down to his seat by the Big E saying "son, you SURE you got this under control? Cus I swear to god who doesn't exist I'ma gon' take you out back and whup yo one-eyed rear end if you gently caress this up" . It's like looking at a scale drawing of all the planets in the solar sysem. Magnus is Jupiter, but the Emperor is the sun. He's just of a different, mind boggling magnitude. This is a guy who (First Heretic spoiler) makes the entire Word Bearers legion and their pissed off primarch (who just twatted Robute) collapse into utter submission with the single spoken word "kneel" . Malcador was also propped up with power given by the emperor, so he's also off the scale of any 'normal' psykers. He lives well beyond his years, has the respect of all the primarchs and survives being bitchslapped 20 meters through the air by a very pissed off Lorgar without being turned into a sack of broken meat . Magnus was created to handle the emperor's psychic tasks and was to sit on the golden throne where his astral form would guide man into the galaxy via the webway. Of course, if the Emperor had taken him to one side and TOLD him this, he wouldn't have been fooled by visions of the cadaver Emperor on the throne, believing it to be his own future and might have actually...oh, never mind. But yeah - once you get to the higher powered Eldar, you're getting into 'god-like' territory where 'Alpha' doesn't really cover it any more.
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Oct 22, 2013 10:40
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High level Eldar psykers are very powerful, but narrowed down to specialties by strict adherence to techniques to avoid falling prey to the warp. By comparison, human (and many other xenos breeds) psykers are unbidden and can accomplish all but the most complex tasks through raw force. The end result is that while Eldar farseers are the masters of predicting and subtly altering the future, and their understanding of psychic phenomena is second to none, the most powerful human psykers are just as good or better at mindblasting things to oblivion as the best of Eldar witches.
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Oct 22, 2013 12:19
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The power scale of psykers has been all over the place in the lore as well. I recall reading one piece that mentioned alpha level psykers being able to rip planets apart with a thought, which doesn't quite gel with the more modern classifications such as the one used in Ravenor.
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Oct 22, 2013 13:52
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I always assumed that it was approximately as rigorous as the classification scheme used for super saiyan powers, and didn't really worry about it. As long as the good authors can keep it roughly consistent within their own books, I'm happy.
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Oct 22, 2013 15:26
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Nephilm posted:High level Eldar psykers are very powerful, but narrowed down to specialties by strict adherence to techniques to avoid falling prey to the warp. By comparison, human (and many other xenos breeds) psykers are unbidden and can accomplish all but the most complex tasks through raw force. That makes sense. Eldar are like the highly tuned kung fu guys, whereas ork shamans are more like roided up wrestlers who drag them to the floor and headbutt them in the face. What would happen if you fed some weirdboyz into the astronomicon? I'm thinking it would be like running a car on moonshine. A brief moment of the entire galaxy being lit up in the warp, then a worrying grinding noise
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Oct 22, 2013 15:35
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To be fair Abnett does stay somewhat consistent, Eisenhorn is low delta, Ravenor was high, but then being in the chair puts him up a class in psychic shenanigans. It's an alpha level psyker who controls several thousand people simultaneously during the thracian atrocity. I took the little part about an alpha plus psyker being able to destroy a planet as they're a massive lighthouse in the warp and more often than not let a powerful daemon through/rip a hole in the warp. I also seem to remember, that either the cabal or the eldar described the Emperor as the most powerful psyker in the known galaxy not just humanity, he's the most powerful individual. I generally just write off differences in scale between authors and just something not important enough for the authors to ask each other or they can't be bothered to try and find out, which is fine with the amount of minutiae involved in writing a 40k novel. I go with whichever author's sense of scale I like the most.
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Oct 22, 2013 16:08
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