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Considering that in Australia the price difference between the 780 and the 290x is small, I really can't personally see the 290x as something I would go for. I definitely value the lower heat, noise, and power consumption of the 780 over the 5-10%~ speed increase of the 290x. Am I in the minority?
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Oct 24, 2013 08:25
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BurritoJustice posted:I definitely value the lower heat, noise, and power consumption of the 780 over the 5-10%~ speed increase of the 290x. Am I in the minority? Not by a long shot, I would imagine. Honestly, if the 780 does end up dropping in price to somewhere around $550, I'll pick up an aftermarket one over the 290X and probably OC it. If the 290X didn't get so massively hot (honestly anything in the 80s would be reasonable enough), then I'd pick up the 290X no question. As of now, I'm sort of left with 3 options. 1. Hope the 290 (non-X) competes well with a 780 and doesn't get as hot as a 290X (seems unlikely). 2. Hope NVIDIA drops the price of the 780 due to the 780ti (maybe just as unlikely). 3. Hope aftermarket solutions for the 290X come out before the end of the year and drastically lower the load temperature.
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Oct 24, 2013 08:58
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Rahu X posted:Not by a long shot, I would imagine. This video from Linus paints a fairly clear picture: at stock clocks the 290x beats the 780, but due to the far larger temperature and power headroom along with the 780's conservative stock clocks, the 780 wins outright when fully overclocked compared to the 290x fully overclocked. One must also take into account that this is both cards with stock blower coolers, so even if the 290x is tamed somewhat by aftermarket open air coolers, it will then have to compete with the many aftermarket 780s with their improved coolers/power delivery etc. While a great card in it's current position $100 below it's main competition, I don't see it as the "Be all and End all" of graphics cards as many do. EDIT: Now that I have thought about it more, the 290x will also be not that great an overclocker when fully cooled, as it is already drawing all 300 watts of power that the 6+8 pin PCI-E plugs are providing (alongside the 75 watts from the PCI-E motherboard connector) which means that there is little room for voltage adjustment without hitting the power barrier. Watercooling will definitely solve the noise and case heat problems though. BurritoJustice fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 09:10
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I'll probably end up putting a water block on it which is why I wanted the reference board. Apparently PCCG have them coming in a week or two.
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Oct 24, 2013 09:11
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$550! Alright, nVidia. Time to  Edit: After reading up on everything around the R290X I am very impressed, apart from low overclocking headroom AMD comes correct. No-bridge crossfire, that's a mindfuck right there, how... Huh. Amazing engineering going on to get this level of performance out of that few transistors - the same kind of extremely purpose-driven design efficiency that leads Haswell to run hot if you try to max clocks, I think. Sure has been awhile since we saw 95ºC+ operational temperatures, and I really, really don't think there's going to be a lot of upward room on the clocks but I'm certain people will try. In this case, aftermarket cooling might be all about reducing noise. Still, nVidia is in a good position - having conservatively clocked the GTX 780, they find themselves in roughly the same position they were in with their own damned card, Titan, hah. I bet these suckers are really close clock for clock and even my rather limp GTX 780 will run at either 1148GHz or 1176GHz depending on what the current driver thinks of my face (or something). Hmm hmm hmm. This is gonna be awesome. Competition like this will bear strong rewards for all consumers. Well done AMD, good luck with the proprietary stuff I hope G-Sync succeeds though. Agreed fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 09:23
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It's more reasonable when you consider shipping expenses, and the increased cost of doing business here... Rents, wages, and utilities are far higher here than they are in America, and the price at retail has to reflect that. Alot of companies do use it as an excuse to gouge us, like adobe, but when it comes to hardware sold in an actual store the difference is often perfectly reasonable.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:35
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Jan posted:But that's because 120hz does not solve a problem other than one of opinion And in what way is the ability to show twice the frames not an advantage? Playing high-paced games on a 60hz screen probably bothers me a lot more than most people, so I guess it's valid to say that the severity of the problem 120hz solves is a matter of opinion - but then I could say the same of IPS panels because the majority of users are happy with TN. I mean, most people probably don't even know what v-sync is, let alone why they should pay significantly more for a proprietary alternative to it. Jan posted:Games rarely run above 60fps, but they frequently run below 60fps. Geek U.S.A. posted:I want something that can run upcoming next gen games maxed at 1080p60fps. Magic Underwear posted:For 1440p or 1600p, you're going to have to turn things down to stay at 60 fps. Athropos posted:I'm one of them "60 fps or bust" people and... Agreed posted:...capable of running the most demanding games of today singly or in some cases even in tandem at 1080p at a minimum of 60fps. 2013-10-24 19:44:38 - bf3 - Frames: 8814 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 146.900 - Min: 102 - Max: 201 2013-10-24 19:46:25 - bf3 - Frames: 6777 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 112.950 - Min: 81 - Max: 162 2013-10-24 19:48:37 - bf3 - Frames: 7897 - Time: 49780ms - Avg: 158.638 - Min: 98 - Max: 192 Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty excited about g-sync too - enough to buy another screen (as long as it is 120hz+ as well) but I think it's highly optimistic to believe it will be more sought after than high refreshrate monitors are by FPS spergs like me. I'm pretty sure nvidia themselves see this as having a niche audience - hence the option of cracking open your LCD and installing the g-sync board yourself.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:37
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Well, that was incredible. The price point for that performance is stunning. People complaining about noise/temp on the stock cooler are missing the point. Aftermarket coolers will be just around the corner, as will full waterblocks, for those who partake in such things. It also has a gig more VRAM than 780s that are $100 more. It flat out represents the best stock price/performance of any kind available. To think some were entertaining this at $729! (To be fair, it's neck and neck with stock Titan, so it could have been, I love how disruptive AMD's pricing is). HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 10:41
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Agreed posted:No-bridge crossfire, that's a mindfuck right there, how... Huh. It sure is  quote:Of particular note for our testing, the 280X Crossfire setup ends up in a particularly nasty failure mode, simply dropping every other frame. It’s being rendered, as evidenced by the consumption of the Present call, however as our FCAT testing shows it’s apparently not making it to the master card. This has the humorous outcome of making the frame times rather smooth, but it makes Crossfire all but worthless as the additional frames are never displayed. VVV I read gud 
DaNzA fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 10:46
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^^^ 280X != 290X Performance is great, the price is better, the reference cooler is balls. I wouldn't be surprised if the performance delta to the 780 actually grows when comparing non-reference cards once those come out, because the 780 has a pretty solid cooler.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:58
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Now I'm really curious to see the 780 Ti. Water coolers are going to love the 290x. It's noisy you say? I didn't know.  Also, status has returned to 
Wistful of Dollars fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 11:14
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The Lord Bude posted:It's more reasonable when you consider shipping expenses, and the increased cost of doing business here... Rents, wages, and utilities are far higher here than they are in America, and the price at retail has to reflect that. Alot of companies do use it as an excuse to gouge us, like adobe, but when it comes to hardware sold in an actual store the difference is often perfectly reasonable. I guess so. I just want a $500 290x, dammit. I'm intrigued to see how well the 290 will perform and for what price..
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Oct 24, 2013 11:27
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Arzachel posted:^^^ 280X != 290X Transistor density as high as that and clocks out the gate as high as that mean that operational temperatures as high as that are not the product of a lovely cooler. I'll be surprised if there's a lot of headroom to go faster on these cards. I really do think aftermarket cooling will be mainly for noise reduction, not better overclocking. Especially earlier on, maybe REALLY GOOD yields will change that later on, but I have my doubts.
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Oct 24, 2013 11:43
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Fuzz1111 posted:Words The g-sync value proposition just doesn't make a lot of sense. Most people are much better off spending the g-sync "tax" on a New CPU setup or a new video card, and a higher FPS makes for a vastly better experience, vysnc issues or not, on every existing single monitor out there. The nerds who actually care about vsync intricacies are like a niche in a niche.
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Oct 24, 2013 12:00
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I'm pretty annoyed that AnandTech's article is just an intro, conclusion and wad of dumb ol' benchmarks with placeholders for the breakdowns of GCN 1.1 and the various new features. I want to see that stuff. Is their staff just overextended?
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Oct 24, 2013 12:28
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Agreed posted:Transistor density as high as that and clocks out the gate as high as that mean that operational temperatures as high as that are not the product of a lovely cooler. I'll be surprised if there's a lot of headroom to go faster on these cards. I really do think aftermarket cooling will be mainly for noise reduction, not better overclocking. Especially earlier on, maybe REALLY GOOD yields will change that later on, but I have my doubts. The difference in power draw between a "reference" 7970GE reviewers got and current custom cooled 7970GE is about 40W give or take ten. The 290X shouldn't be such rush job, but I have little confidence in AMD's reference blowers, and this looks like a slightly modified 7970 cooler. I'd be surprised if the reviewers got the cards to clock over 900mhz under load.
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Oct 24, 2013 12:32
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Factory Factory posted:I'm pretty annoyed that AnandTech's article is just an intro, conclusion and wad of dumb ol' benchmarks with placeholders for the breakdowns of GCN 1.1 and the various new features. I want to see that stuff. Is their staff just overextended? I assume they hadn't finished it, but wanted to get benchmarks out there as soon as possible, for the "tl;dr" crowd. Personally, I'd like to read the analysis.
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Oct 24, 2013 12:36
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Good to see great competition from AMD side! Unfortunately the temperature and power consumption increase is something that I value much more than slight performance gain since I have a mini-itx build.
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Oct 24, 2013 13:03
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The 290X basically makes me go 'meh'. It basically performs about as well as a titan, but an overclocked 780 can well and truly outperform a Titan. As was mentioned earlier, until I see overclocked custom cooled versions compared to overclocked 780s I'm not interested. I also suspect that the 780ti will blow it out of the water, although I'm dissapointed Nvidia isn't going with 6gb of ram.
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Oct 24, 2013 13:23
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I think we can all agree that 256 bit wide VRAM buses are practically obsolete in the face of 4k.
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Oct 24, 2013 13:41
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I haven’t followed the GPU scene for a while, but wow, the 290X seems unbelievable value compared to the Titan. The gap almost seems to be too large to be true.  hardocp review posted:And consider this, for just $100 above the price of one GTX TITAN, you can own two Radeon R9 290X video cards and use those in a CrossFire configuration. 
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Oct 24, 2013 13:54
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Ugh it annoys the poo poo out of me when UHD resolutions are still benchmarked with AA enabled. Having a shitload of pixels solves that problem! Let the card do other stuff with its resources!  eames posted:I haven’t followed the GPU scene for a while, but wow, the 290X seems unbelievable value compared to the Titan. Just about anything is an unbelievable value compared to the Titan for playing videogames. It's the entry level CUDA card. The real competition is between the 290x and the GTX 780 (and presumably upcoming GTX 780Ti). We'll find out soon how much room nVidia has to move prices around, and what their binning looks like when facing strong price competition from AMD in the high end. Agreed fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 14:12
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AMD have done a decent job. Coming in at the 549 price is a pretty big deal as their card sits right between the 780 and Titan, which is what the 780Ti is supposed to do, but does it at a price range where Nvidia may be uncomfortable matching them. Once we get non-reference cooled cards, the 290X major mark against it, will be alleviated and Nvidia are going to have a hard time getting close to the price/performance offered. As someone who is building a new system at the end of November, I couldn't have expected any more from the red team. I'm hoping Nvidia do feel the need to compete before the holiday buying season. There is not a whole lot of room between the 780 and Titan to begin with, so performance wise we aren't going to be getting that dramatic an improvement in performance with the Ti. Hopefully this pushes them to keep prices at or perhaps even a little less where the current 780 lies when they launch in November. If we get HOF/Lightning Ti models at the 650ish range, going Nvidia would be a no brainer. If we have a $100 price difference between the non-reference cooled 290X and equivalent Ti, I'll be going AMD.
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Oct 24, 2013 14:22
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The Lord Bude posted:I also suspect that the 780ti will blow it out of the water, although I'm dissapointed Nvidia isn't going with 6gb of ram. For $549 R9 290X looks like a solid win for AMD but R9 290 might end up being this gens' 7950 for best bang vs buck. That ~$400 price point needs filling somehow... PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 14:25
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:780Ti= "Titan Lite". Probably about as fast as the R9 290X for as much as or more than the current 780. Only way I can see paying the extra money for it over the R9 290X is if you have poor case ventilation and/or really hate the noise the "uber mode" fan puts out.
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Oct 24, 2013 14:33
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:780Ti= "Titan Lite". Probably about as fast as the R9 290X for as much as or more than the current 780. Only way I can see paying the extra money for it over the R9 290X is if you have poor case ventilation and/or really hate the noise the "uber mode" fan puts out. A non reference overclocked gtx780 will comfortably outperform a titan though, I'm expecting the 780TI will outperform the titan as well.
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Oct 24, 2013 15:03
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zylche posted:The thermal limit of my CPU is ~63C, gently caress if I'm letting the R9 290X near it. The Lord Bude posted:A non reference overclocked gtx780 will comfortably outperform a titan though, I'm expecting the 780TI will outperform the titan as well. e: Blowers are better for moving air in instances where you have high back pressure. In this case the heatsink on these modern GPU's tend to be high fin density and have heat pipes running through the middle of them on top of that. The space for fans also tends to be pretty limited around the GPU in most cases too. Short of going to something wacky like a stacked contrarotating axial fan assembly a blower is the way to go. Though I guess if you're willing to put up with a 3 slot width video card and multiple big axial fans that can work too. e2: I don't think the problem is the fan with the reference R9 290X video cards, IMO its probably the heatsink itself.\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 15:19
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TheRationalRedditor posted:Wow, that's really shocking. Provided actual samples don't explode from strain, this is extremely good for AMD. Enlighten me, are blowers like, strictly worse than open-air fans? I would have thought a blower to be better from a scientific standpoint because it seems like it "scoops" the air through the system instead of just brute-force spinning some propellers. zylche posted:The thermal limit of my CPU is ~63C, gently caress if I'm letting the R9 290X near it. Guy, if the GPU could burn out a CPU at its proximity, you'd also get your hands melted to the PC case when you touch it.
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Oct 24, 2013 15:30
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Zero VGS posted:Enlighten me, are blowers like, strictly worse than open-air fans? I would have thought a blower to be better from a scientific standpoint because it seems like it "scoops" the air through the system instead of just brute-force spinning some propellers. Open air cooler fans can be bigger, you can mount several of them and while dumping the heat into the case might seem counterproductive, you're passing the heat to large low rpm case fan instead of having to move most of it with a dinky high rpm blower fan. In my opinion the only reason to use a blower is in small cases with little room for case fans. Arzachel fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 15:58
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The Lord Bude posted:I also suspect that the 780ti will blow it out of the water, No way, NVIDIA wouldn't release a card faster than Titan as a refresh.
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Oct 24, 2013 16:39
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:You have to get high (1.1-1.2Ghz) "clocks" and overvolt a 780GTX to do that though, short of getting a "golden card" that is. I guess if they started heavily binning parts nV could release a GPU like that but it might end up even more niche and more expensive that I had originally thought. I am disappointed in the overclocking headroom of my 780 and it tops out at either 1148MHz or 1176MHz depending on how the current drivers do a thing. All GTX 780s offer 38 microvolts of adjustment from their factory configuration. Good ones can get past 1200MHz more easily, and the whole range seems to be thus far anyway chips with validation scores in the mid 60% to low 70% range. What might be the cause of this is speculative, yields are speculative, but what isn't speculative is that nVidia underclocks these suckers compared to their capabilities (reminds me of AMD's early Tahiti 7970s vs. the 7970 GHz edition), and if we saw a mid-point card between the 780 and the Titan that was more fully enabled yet still had the gaming advantage of no concern for DP and less than 6GB of VRAM, it should easily be able to outperform the Titan in games within even the exact same thermal envelope, let alone if they have been quietly binning for higher voltage, higher performance chips. Careful to read what is and what is not speculation in the above, I don't want people getting the wrong idea here. My view on this whole thing is nuanced and I'm happy AMD came to the market with such an attractive, high-performance card - it really is great for everyone. 
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Oct 24, 2013 16:49
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HalloKitty posted:No way, NVIDIA wouldn't release a card faster than Titan as a refresh. If I remember correctly, Nvidia announced an upcoming new titan ages ago however. Presumably they would phase out the gen1 Titan. Also, there have already been spec leaks which show the 780ti estimated as being slightly faster than a Titan at stock clocks. http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...s-titan-1192997 Who knows what it can do with a decent overclock?
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Oct 24, 2013 16:49
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Agreed posted:Ugh it annoys the poo poo out of me when UHD resolutions are still benchmarked with AA enabled. Having a shitload of pixels solves that problem! Let the card do other stuff with its resources! See I thought that too with the retina screens on a rMBP but I still end up seeing aliasing at 2880x1800. You still need a tiny bit of blur.
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Oct 24, 2013 16:55
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Tell you what, though, even with the R9 290X's blower adjustments, would it loving kill them to go balls to the wall and make God's Own Reference Cooler a la Titan/GTX 780? I mean, companies gain profit by using aftermarket cooling on the things because it's so tremendously engineered. Ultra effective, but all that metal is costly and I imagine AMD is doing everything physically possible to keep all non-essential costs down to hit that outstanding price point. Still, nearly 70dB for a blower and the thing runs at 95ºC, sounds just like the Radeon HD 4870x2 that I owned for a while. Ugggh I hated that card. If you think Crossfire could still use some work now, it flat out sucked back then, and that was just too much to stick on one card. Is it a confirmed, final figure that this is a 280W TDP product, or is that just measured draw? I am interested to see if there is any improvement in the power draw of the cooler itself, would be good to know where all that energy is going in terms of trying to determine whether there's more headroom available for the chip itself. From what I've read, early attempts to overclock it top out very quickly even though it's implemented an AMD flavor of Boost 2.0, which makes sense from the perspective of transistor density, relative resistance and capacitance and such high temperatures - take the voltage and the clock rate into account and god drat is that a lot to try to dissipate from a leaner surface, if in fact it isn't some engineering inefficiency in the blower itself. I will be paying a lot of attention to overclocking capability of this card, personally, since we already know the GTX 780 can trivially overclock to 1.1GHz (it's above there where things get a bit dicey). Oh it's always so exciting when new tech hits  With Factory Factory on the "yo Anand benchmarks are cool but let's get some analysis over here!" thing, though  Malcolm XML posted:See I thought that too with the retina screens on a rMBP but I still end up seeing aliasing at 2880x1800. You still need a tiny bit of blur. Granted some AA may still be meaningful, but BF3's 4xMSAA is kinda like Metro 2033's 4xMSAA - it's a very resource hungry implementation and (unlike Metro's version compared to the still-good AAA it offers) doesn't even really look better than FXAA or any other good post-processing/shader-based AA which from what I understand shouldn't scale with resolution nearly as much in terms of performance hit either. Like, in practice, at 4K, you're getting to the point where even with 30" displays the human eye is bad at distinguishing superior pixel resolution. Four times as many pixels as 1080p and still using settings that really only make sense at that lower resolution is just foolish; I know it's done largely to standardize the benchmark set against what they already have, for comparison's sake, but I hope that in practice people with very high resolution displays aren't doing anything as dumb as cranking up the AA and eating that massive performance and VRAM hit any more than absolutely necessary. Agreed fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 17:00
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HalloKitty posted:No way, NVIDIA wouldn't release a card faster than Titan as a refresh. Given the performance of the 290x, I'm not sure they have a choice; barring huge price cuts to make them enticing for less performance.
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Oct 24, 2013 17:06
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Agreed posted:With Factory Factory on the "yo Anand benchmarks are cool but let's get some analysis over here!" thing, though I feel like they've been dropping the ball recently on their reviews. I don't know if it's because Anand only cares about Apple really now or what, but it's annoying to see them continuing to pull this poo poo of "Hey we know you only care about charts anyway!" Ugh no, we don't just care about charts. It's also funny when [H] and the other sites can get their reviews out but Anandtech can't. They've had the card for at least a week now - you can't tell me Ryan Smith couldn't find 1/2 hour or an hour to at least put some text down for each section. Their coverage of anything non-Apple has become horrible.
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Oct 24, 2013 17:10
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SourKraut posted:I feel like they've been dropping the ball recently on their reviews. I don't know if it's because Anand only cares about Apple really now or what, but it's annoying to see them continuing to pull this poo poo of "Hey we know you only care about charts anyway!" Ugh no, we don't just care about charts.
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Oct 24, 2013 18:00
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Here's an article from TweakTown focusing on overclocking and it's about what I expected - low overclocking headroom on the R9 290X (we'll see if that holds or not once non-reference models start showing up and tools allow for more adjustment), but when overclocked the GTX 780 holds its own well, though the expected engine variances that favor one architecture over another continue to be in play (note Sleeping Dogs as an example of a game where even a lower-tier AMD card performs admirably compared to a GTX 780 or Titan). The article uses a factory overclocked GTX 780, too - with the current WHQL driver, my GTX 780 is back up to 1176MHz (seriously, what the hell is up with driver versions changing the overclock's stable bin, that's just goofy), and in synthetic benches it seems like GK110 has a slight clock for clock advantage over AMD's newest GCN chip. In situ, things go as they go, but I'm glad to see that the GTX 780 stands and fights even at what are, for it, relatively low overclocks - less glad to see that apparently the R9 290X has very low overclocking headroom, but maybe that's "for now." One can hope. Competition will make everything better for everyone here, nobody should do any fanboy bullshit, hope that both companies try to thrash the poo poo out of each other on all fronts, price, performance, bundles, etc., that's the true benefit of all this, but for those of us who invested in a GK110 card it's good to see that when overclocked they aren't left behind performance-wise. Of course it has a huge GPGPU ostensible computational advantage over the GTX 780 since it isn't hobbled like nVidia's gaming cards are, but its important to remember, I think, that it's still a gamer card and lacks the features and stability (hardware and software) from which workstations benefit. For GPGPU, it's gonna be a great performer for home-brewed OpenCL/etc. stuff, just like for GPGPU Titan is a great performer for home-brewed CUDA stuff, but anyone needing the higher end features that these cards' higher end brethren should provide will likely want to step up the chain and get the more carefully certified drivers and error-correcting hardware and all that jazz. I haven't looked into AMD's FireGL lineup to see where these will fit into that side of things, but I would be kinda surprised if they opted to just let standard R9 290X cards be their do-it-all card when it lacks some features that workstations kinda need.
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Oct 24, 2013 18:17
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Alereon posted:They accidentally set one article for a scheduled go-live before it's completed and suddenly it's an indictment of their non-Apple coverage? Anandtech's game is deep, detailed analysis of technology and that takes time. But it wasn't one-time? They've done it in the past with the Titan, the 7990, the 280X and now the 290X that come to mind. Now I just may be ignorant and perhaps they're contractually obligated to have *something* up when the embargo lifts, but if not, I feel like it'd be better for them to simply hold off on putting anything up until the entire review is ready. As for it being an "accidental scheduling" for the publish date, Ryan Smith and Anand both commented in the 280X comments sections that the (unfinished) review went up at the intended time, and Ryan Smith said the same this time in the comments pre-emptively. There isn't anything accidental about it - they're pushing for a review to be up the moment the embargo lifts regardless of the completion state of the review, and it looks really bad.
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Oct 24, 2013 18:25
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Alereon posted:They accidentally set one article for a scheduled go-live before it's completed and suddenly it's an indictment of their non-Apple coverage? Anandtech's game is deep, detailed analysis of technology and that takes time. We know from their podcast and other coverage that their writers have been solidly busy flying to various events events and doing new product launches so it's not like they dropped everything else to work on Apple stuff. Did you read their 290X review? None of the benchmarks had analysis, and most of the other pages just said "[work in progress]". It isn't just one incident.
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Oct 24, 2013 18:29
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