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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Full show is starting now!

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triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

MassRafTer posted:

Slight change of plan as the Daily Motion playlist was taken down but we'll have the main matches from Havoc 96 starting at 8!

Wouldn't it be magical if WWE had some sort of on-demand service where we could watch all these old shows together without having to jump through hoops like this?

It really annoys me that it doesn't exist. Quit hogging your sweet library, WWE :argh:

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

KISS ME KRIS

triplexpac posted:

Wouldn't it be magical if WWE had some sort of on-demand service where we could watch all these old shows together without having to jump through hoops like this?

It really annoys me that it doesn't exist. Quit hogging your sweet library, WWE :argh:

Well they'd get those tapes out but they're too busy editing out all the people they don't like this week. Then next week they have to edit them back in because WWE is cool with them again.

basically WWE is 1984 is sports entertainment form.

your friend sk
Dec 10, 2005

(ヤイケス!)


coconono posted:

basically WWE is 1984 is sports entertainment form.

hunter is over. hunter has always been over

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010

sk posted:

hunter is over. hunter has always been over

Actually before he got put in DX with HBK he wasn't getting poo poo in terms of heat.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Actually before he got put in DX with HBK he wasn't getting poo poo in terms of heat.

What are you talking about, Triple H debuted with DX.

Just believe.

The Monkey Man
Jun 10, 2012

HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT
And DX has never tapped out!

your friend sk
Dec 10, 2005

(ヤイケス!)


El Gallinero Gros posted:

Actually before he got put in DX with HBK he wasn't getting poo poo in terms of heat.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer

sk posted:

hunter is over. hunter has always been over

imagine a face being pedigreed

forever

Jefferoo
Jun 24, 2008

by Lowtax
Read the entirety of The Death of WCW today front to back. Blown away at how badly everything went to poo poo. Well recommend it if anyone else hasn't gotten around to it yet. I kind of want to do some dramatic readings of bits and pieces some time, it's loving hilarious.

quote:

Before we continue, we need to note that none of the following is being made up. This all actually happened, presumably because someone theorized that it would make fans buy tickets and PPVs.

Cue an entire story about Ultimate Warrior's return to WCW and the ancestor of LOST's black smoke monster.

Manic_Misanthrope
Jul 1, 2010


El Gallinero Gros posted:

Actually before he got put in DX with HBK he wasn't getting poo poo in terms of heat.

I think Chyna got more heat than him.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Chyna got over ridiculously quickly, helped in no small part by how for a time she was the most protected person on the roster.

ColeM
Dec 23, 2007
New User Alert!

Jefferoo posted:

Read the entirety of The Death of WCW today front to back. Blown away at how badly everything went to poo poo. Well recommend it if anyone else hasn't gotten around to it yet. I kind of want to do some dramatic readings of bits and pieces some time, it's loving hilarious.


Cue an entire story about Ultimate Warrior's return to WCW and the ancestor of LOST's black smoke monster.

The blow-up doll fiasco was hilarious and that he got injured doing jack poo poo at Fall Brawl 98 in the war games match.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Jefferoo posted:

Read the entirety of The Death of WCW today front to back. Blown away at how badly everything went to poo poo. Well recommend it if anyone else hasn't gotten around to it yet. I kind of want to do some dramatic readings of bits and pieces some time, it's loving hilarious.


Cue an entire story about Ultimate Warrior's return to WCW and the ancestor of LOST's black smoke monster.

It's saying something that TNA has seemingly never attempted to get Warrior even for a non-wrestling role. Even they won't work with just anyone.

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib

Maxwell Lord posted:

It's saying something that TNA has seemingly never attempted to get Warrior even for a non-wrestling role. Even they won't work with just anyone.

Has Jim Hellwig ever done commentary? I imagine it would be about the same as getting commentary from the hobo on the street.

Jefferoo
Jun 24, 2008

by Lowtax

pathetic little tramp posted:

Has Jim Hellwig ever done commentary? I imagine it would be about the same as getting commentary from the hobo on the street.

Uh, excuse me, his name is "Warrior." The best name.

Pinstripe Hourglass
Nov 27, 2008

=RIVER PEOPLE=
Ay yi yi! We look
like... cartoons!

Putting Warrior on commentary would just be inviting FCC fines and hate speech suits.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Pinstripe Hourglass posted:

Putting Warrior on commentary would just be inviting FCC fines and hate speech suits.

It's like when you give Scott Steiner a mic. It'll probably be entertaining but your lawyers may just quit en masse.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Pinstripe Hourglass posted:

Putting Warrior on commentary would just be inviting FCC fines and hate speech suits.

Warrior and AJ Styles on commentary

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

Maxwell Lord posted:

It's saying something that TNA has seemingly never attempted to get Warrior even for a non-wrestling role. Even they won't work with just anyone.

Haven't they made overtures but his asking price was absurdly high by even their standards?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

flashy_mcflash posted:

Haven't they made overtures but his asking price was absurdly high by even their standards?

I think you are right, at least it was rumored when he did that match with Orlando Jordan(?)

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

MassRafTer posted:

I think you are right, at least it was rumored when he did that match with Orlando Jordan(?)

Yeah I think I remember Orlando being mentioned somewhere in there. Was that before Panda came in?

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

flashy_mcflash posted:

Yeah I think I remember Orlando being mentioned somewhere in there. Was that before Panda came in?

It was just after Hogan came in, years after Panda was involved.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer
The August 19, 1996 WO~! FEATURING WCW HOG WILD

quote:

3. Madusa (Debra Micelli) pinned Bull Nakano (Keiko Nakano) in 5:00 in the winner bashes up the losers' bike. Nakano attacked Madusa with nunchakus at the bell. As Nakano took control, the crowd, having no idea who these women were but being into the bike vs. bike gimmick, started chanting "Harley" since Madusa rode a Harley into the ring (at least I think that's what it was for, since Madusa really doesn't look much at all like Harley Race). They were having a decent match, although rushed, until a totally screwed up finish. Nakano was supposed to do a bridging back suplex and the ref would count, at the count of two Madusa would raise her shoulder and the ref would count three. Anyway, the women did the finish, and ref Randy Eller stopped his count at two. Neither women could figure out why and hesitated. They did the same spot again and again the ref didn't count three. Then a third time, and again Madusa raised her shoulder and the ref counted three but nobody knew it. Sonny Onoo then grabbed a sledgehammer and threatened the Harley. Madusa jumped out of the ring and got the sledgehammer and smashed Bull's Honda a little bit. *1/2

quote:

Harlem Heat (Lane & Booker Huffman) retained the WCW tag titles beating the Steiners (Robert & Scott Rechsteiner) in 17:53. Heat got the best heat on the show for all the wrong reasons. I guess those bikers don't like the colored folks.

quote:

8. Hulk Hogan (Terry Bollea) pinned Giant (Paul Wight) to regain the WCW title in 14:55. Hogan was cheered and the fans were chanting for him as they had no idea about the heel turn. Hogan looked to be about 60 years old as he had obviously dieted down so much for his birthday that his face was drawn and the sun made his body look real old. Hogan stalled early and basically did 60s heel tactics. All the offense by Hogan looked awful and he doesn't bump as a heel so that kills that idea. Giant did the Hogan superman comeback in one of the campiest spots ever in a wrestling match. It was like watching the worst movie ever made--or the worst wrestling match. Well, between that triple decked cage contraption earlier this year and Warrior-Goldust, this match is luckily eliminated for worst match considerations but would be up there in another year. The campiest part of all was Giant doing the Hogan foot to the face, and missing it by a foot. Hall interfered and was slammed off the top rope and choke slammed. Nash got Jimmy Hart's megaphone and then got choke slammed. Hogan got the megaphone and hit Giant with it and scored the pins and got a huge babyface pop. Booty Man, wearing an NWO t-shirt as if he was the fourth guy, showed up with a birthday cake (Hogan turned 43 the next day) and Hogan thanked him. Then Hogan got Nash and Hall to turn on him. Hogan then spray painted NWO on the title belt. With the angle being everyone in WCW was uniting against NWO, it was ridiculous that nobody came to Giant's aid although I guess had they done so it would have gotten in the way of the angle. -*1/2

quote:

Page wants to do a deal where he would be the Stevie Richards flunky to Ric Flair, but Flair is said to not be so hot on the idea. Flair would in that scenario be Page's benefactor, since they started a benefactor storyline with no idea where they were going with it.

quote:

Add Lanny Poffo to the list who are under contract, although there are no plans of using him. Must be nice to be a nephew or brother to a top wrestler in WCW.

quote:

About a dozen wrestlers from the Gaea promotion will be coming in for a world womens title tournament that'll probably come down to Madusa vs. Chigusa Nagayo. Don't know exactly when, other then it's coming.

quote:

Highlights of the 8/5 Nitro show ... At one point Sting & Luger went into a vacant limo and found a wreath of flowers sending condolences to the death of WCW. That was a copy of something Jim Cornette sent to Jim Herd years ago for real.

Angry smarks of the 90s, aka the letters section!

quote:

They should have used Dick Murdoch as the third man. Even dead, he's a better worker than Hulk Hogan.

Also, Joe Silva writes a letter trashing Pancrase as fake.

This issue also features the start of the WO HoF!

Hirams Bitch
Oct 24, 2008

I like that in 1996 Hogan was already looking old as hell. 17 years ago. And he is still kind of around.

david carmichael
Oct 28, 2011

Rodney the Piper posted:

The August 19, 1996 WO~! FEATURING WCW HOG WILD








Angry smarks of the 90s, aka the letters section!


Also, Joe Silva writes a letter trashing Pancrase as fake.

This issue also features the start of the WO HoF!

gimme dem joe silva words

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

david carmichael posted:

gimme dem joe silva words



LordPants posted:

My favorite part

quote:

Here are a few things about Pancrase to think about.

1. Why are the fighters allowed to kick each other with shoes? You can't do that in the UFC. The shin pads didn't cover the hardest part of the shoe, the bottom. Front and side kicks, which use the bottom of the shoe, were thrown.

2. Why are punches not allowed and brutal leg kicks rarely used? Could it be because punches are impossible to fake convincingly and leg kicks, while not as difficult to fake as punches, are hard to make look full power and the fighters tend to overact when hit by them (like in UWFI)? I don't think you'll see too many people outside of shootfighting get knocked out cold by a palm heel slap.

3. Why do none of the fighters seem terribly worried when they are obviously in a position to be choked out and the fighter in the position to do the choking rarely tries very hard to do so? You rarely see anybody who knows chokes in the UFC not take advantage of the opportunity.

4. With points scored so infrequently, doesn't it seem silly that Ken Shamrock would have said that one fighter, in a dominant position, would just let his opponent up when the opponent would lose a point if he locked on a submission hold because of a rope break, would decide against working for the submission because he didn't want to give away any of his submissions. Doesn't he know at least a few?

5. I've never heard of a boxing, kick boxing or judo organization that only consists of about 20 fighters, most of whom are trained by the same people, who just rotate fighting one another. The UFC is actually fairly easy to get into and anyone can compete. From what I understand, Pancrase is a very exclusive organization and difficult to get into. I wonder why? Also, why are the fighters paid salary like pro wrestlers instead of given purses for each match based on the result?

6. Finally, doesn't it seem strange that even SEG won't come out and state officially that Pancrase is 100% real?

Pro wrestling is great, but in no way should it be confused with something real like UFC. I loved the Rocky movies, but Sylvester Stallone was never the legitimate heavyweight boxing championship of the world. Let's not blur fantasy and reality. Pancrase may occasionally have some legitimate shoots but so did the UWFI. It is not terribly hard to tell the difference between real matches and not-so-real matches. Pancrase is simply a better worked, though less entertaining, version of UWFI. As much as I like and respect Ken Shamrock, I have to say that if he wants to claim any glory from his victories in Pancrase, he is also going to have to acknowledge his losses in pro wrestling matches, such as his loss to Bart Vale, which was an obvious work. You can't have it both ways.

Joe Silva


Richmond, Virginia

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer
But wait, that's not the one from this newsletter (so yes, Joe Silva apparently wrote in at least twice)!

quote:

As much as I respect your opinion, I can't believe you are falling for this Pancrase crap. Trust me, I really want it to be real. Because of the Observer, I have considered that maybe I'm wrong but when I play the tapes, there are just too many obvious signs. To say that it must be legit because so many of the fights are now going the time limit is like saying pro wrestling must be real because of how many matches end with a disqualification. It is just a way for someone to lose without hurting their reputations too much since they didn't submit. As you have pointed out, most fans in Japan believe that RINGS is legit but just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true.

I also disagree vehemently with your statements that less submissions are occurring in fights because the fighters are now smarter and better trained. This gets proven to be untrue every time a Gracie steps in the ring. Most fights don't have a clue how to apply submissions correctly. Learning a move itself is the easy part. I could teach you most of the truly effective submission moves in a couple of hours. What takes years to perfect is how to get them on an unwilling opponent. You could learn all of the effective punches in boxing pretty quickly, but it would take years and some talent to be able to use them effectively.

The Gracies don't have any magic secrets. What they have is years of experience in submission fighting. What holds them back is their lack of size. Put Royce Gracie in the ring with someone who is within 15 pounds of his weight, and even if they are smart or well trained, my money is that Royce will make them submit. There were submissions against fighters that were supposed to be good at Sayama's Vale Tudo show. The fighters they have currently competing in the UFC's are simply not well trained and experienced in submissions.

Joe Silva

Richmond, Virginia

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Pinstripe Hourglass posted:

Putting Warrior on commentary would just be inviting FCC fines and hate speech suits.
It would get complaints sent to the FCC but exactly $0 in fines since TNA is on cable.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Endless Mike posted:

It would get complaints sent to the FCC but exactly $0 in fines since TNA is on cable.

The FCC does in fact have authority to regulate cable, but it is less regulated by the FCC than broadcast and you almost never hear them exercising their editorial power. However cable systems still must comply with a number of regulations, especially regarding political candidates, advertising, endorsements, etc. It'd be tough for Warrior to pull off, but he could do it.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

quote:

Add Lanny Poffo to the list who are under contract, although there are no plans of using him. Must be nice to be a nephew or brother to a top wrestler in WCW.

Long as I live, I will never understand this. He never showed up on a Saturday Night or as a jobber or anything. Just a paycheque for literally nothing. Poffo really lived that Genius moniker in and out of the ring, clearly.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."
Joe Silva is friends with Dave and has been forever (which at least in part answers the question of how the pro wrestling guy gets so many UFC scoops) and I am pretty sure he wrote in more than two times. He used to be a regular guest on Observer Live in the early days of that, too.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

MassRafTer posted:

The FCC does in fact have authority to regulate cable, but it is less regulated by the FCC than broadcast and you almost never hear them exercising their editorial power. However cable systems still must comply with a number of regulations, especially regarding political candidates, advertising, endorsements, etc. It'd be tough for Warrior to pull off, but he could do it.

How does it have any authority? The whole idea with their regulation of the airwaves is that the airwaves are a public resource. Cable lines aren't.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Maxwell Lord posted:

How does it have any authority? The whole idea with their regulation of the airwaves is that the airwaves are a public resource. Cable lines aren't.

They have statutory regulatory power over cable as granted by the Cable Communications Act of 1984 and subsequent legislation (they had originally started regulating cable in the mid-70s and it was kind of a disaster because nobody could figure out what power they had under the original statutory framework that predated cable). It just isn't as broad as their plenary power over broadcast because cable has been deregulated to a much greater extent.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Maxwell Lord posted:

How does it have any authority? The whole idea with their regulation of the airwaves is that the airwaves are a public resource. Cable lines aren't.

The FCC governs communication via air and wire. The federal government is empowered to regulate interstate commerce and the FCC regulates telecommunication. It's the same way the government can regulate land lines.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
In non TNA/FCC news, tonight's Nitros are sort of big in terms of the long term build for the WCW vs nWo feud. Piper has just debuted and someone else is waiting in the wings.

http://psp-tv.com/r/greatestnitroinhistoryofoursport 8 PM for Nitro, Megiddo is currently playing.

Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

flashy_mcflash posted:

Long as I live, I will never understand this. He never showed up on a Saturday Night or as a jobber or anything. Just a paycheque for literally nothing. Poffo really lived that Genius moniker in and out of the ring, clearly.
This is my favorite example of WCW stupidity. They were going to bring in Poffo using the Gorgeous George name and gimmick, which his brother Randy had purchased, but gave the name to Savage's girlfriend instead. According to Poffo, he never received any bookings and his calls to the office went unreturned. I think they were paying Lanny over $200,000 a year for at least two years to sit at home and do nothing.

quote:

8. Hulk Hogan (Terry Bollea) pinned Giant (Paul Wight) to regain the WCW title in 14:55. Hogan was cheered and the fans were chanting for him as they had no idea about the heel turn. Hogan looked to be about 60 years old as he had obviously dieted down so much for his birthday that his face was drawn and the sun made his body look real old. Hogan stalled early and basically did 60s heel tactics. All the offense by Hogan looked awful and he doesn't bump as a heel so that kills that idea. Giant did the Hogan superman comeback in one of the campiest spots ever in a wrestling match. It was like watching the worst movie ever made--or the worst wrestling match. Well, between that triple decked cage contraption earlier this year and Warrior-Goldust, this match is luckily eliminated for worst match considerations but would be up there in another year. The campiest part of all was Giant doing the Hogan foot to the face, and missing it by a foot. Hall interfered and was slammed off the top rope and choke slammed. Nash got Jimmy Hart's megaphone and then got choke slammed. Hogan got the megaphone and hit Giant with it and scored the pins and got a huge babyface pop. Booty Man, wearing an NWO t-shirt as if he was the fourth guy, showed up with a birthday cake (Hogan turned 43 the next day) and Hogan thanked him. Then Hogan got Nash and Hall to turn on him. Hogan then spray painted NWO on the title belt. With the angle being everyone in WCW was uniting against NWO, it was ridiculous that nobody came to Giant's aid although I guess had they done so it would have gotten in the way of the angle. -*1/2

I remember this from a Botchamania. The Giant had to lay there for ages selling the megaphone shot while the NWO pissed around in the ring doing their birthday cake angle.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


Say Nothing posted:

This is my favorite example of WCW stupidity. They were going to bring in Poffo using the Gorgeous George name and gimmick, which his brother Randy had purchased, but gave the name to Savage's girlfriend instead. According to Poffo, he never received any bookings and his calls to the office went unreturned. I think they were paying Lanny over $200,000 a year for at least two years to sit at home and do nothing.


I remember this from a Botchamania. The Giant had to lay there for ages selling the megaphone shot while the NWO pissed around in the ring doing their birthday cake angle.

It's somehow crazy to me that Hogan was only 43 in 1996. He looked middle-aged for most of his career. Must be the 'stache.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer

jeffersonlives posted:

Joe Silva is friends with Dave and has been forever (which at least in part answers the question of how the pro wrestling guy gets so many UFC scoops) and I am pretty sure he wrote in more than two times. He used to be a regular guest on Observer Live in the early days of that, too.

Even with that, it's still wild to me that a guy involved in running UFC would actually take the time to write letters to the Wrestling Observer.

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Rodney the Piper posted:

Even with that, it's still wild to me that a guy involved in running UFC would actually take the time to write letters to the Wrestling Observer.

He wasn't working for UFC yet, he was just an angry man who wanted Pancrase exposed.

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