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I'm pretty sure they explained it as Voyager has the most advanced sensors and is one of the fastest ships in the fleet so if anything could find a Maquis raider in the Badlands, Voyager would.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:44
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Whalley posted:Janeway should have been piloting a fuckin' Miranda or Nova class, something that is meant for constant returns for repairs and restocking. Careful, because too far in the other direction means it strains credibility when the crew manages to lash the ship together when it should have just completely quit by the fourth season. And no, a starship that's amalgamated together out of major components of different species' ships is no less incredible.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:55
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Luigi Thirty posted:I'm pretty sure they explained it as Voyager has the most advanced sensors and is one of the fastest ships in the fleet so if anything could find a Maquis raider in the Badlands, Voyager would.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:09
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jng2058 posted:I mean, how else can you explain Sisko being the one giving all the important orders throughout the Dominion War if Captain isn't really the more important rank? Jesus outranks Admiral.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:13
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I imagine a lot of the apparent admirality decay could be explained by Starfleet being so peaceful for decades during the lead up to TNG/DS9/VOY's era. You got people who liked being administrators, mostly, as well as perhaps people who just wanted something to do, as there wouldn't even really be the perks-and-pay reason to stay in high rank. Meanwhile, of course, captains and such obviously have an exciting, challenging lifestyle.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:19
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Nessus posted:I imagine a lot of the apparent admirality decay could be explained by Starfleet being so peaceful for decades during the lead up to TNG/DS9/VOY's era. Haha no this got completely retconned out. TNG references a "disastrous" Tomed Incident with the Romulans, the Norkan "campaigns" remembered by the Federation as "massacres", as well as the Enterprise-C being lost with all hands fighting Romulan warbirds at Narendra; border wars with the Talarians; and the Cardassian War lasted long enough that Captain Picard was dealing with Cardassians when he was commanding Stargazer. By the time DS9 also retconned in wars with the Tzenkethi, the 24th century was very much no longer a "peaceful" era.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:39
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jng2058 posted:And at the battle in "Sacrifice of Angels"? Where there are like two whole Fleets involved? Why was Sisko in charge then? I don't think the political preferences of a neutral power when DS9 isn't under Federation control should entitle Captain Sisko to command a fleet! That's literally what an admiral's job is...to lead a fleet! The answer is always because it's a better narrative. This is a rabbit hole you really don't want to go down, cause once you get started everything that takes place in Star Trek will fall apart. Why does the guy who specializes in pushing the 'fire torpedo' button on the bridge in charge of taking point on dangerous away missions? Why would the communications position on the flagship of the federation fleet be alternately filled by the newly minted
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Oct 28, 2013 20:42
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Why doesn't the universal translator just translate Klingon or French? How come they keep flying beyond Warp 4 even though space scientists discovered that Warp engines cause space global warming? Given that the Doctor is a pretty sophisticated and human person and also just a computer, how come Data doesn't understand emotions? If you play Holo Mario 64 in the Holodeck but don't bring along your red cap, do you always take double damage as if your hat is missing, or does the computer provide you with a hat with your own initial on it? All of these are questions you're not supposed to think about, and one thing I'll admit that Star Trek does pretty well is making sure that you don't. I haven't seen Enterprise yet, but I can bet that over-explaining tropes we took for granted is their bread and butter and part of why people tend to hate it so much.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:00
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Luigi Thirty posted:I'm pretty sure they explained it as Voyager has the most advanced sensors and is one of the fastest ships in the fleet so if anything could find a Maquis raider in the Badlands, Voyager would. It's also a new ship of a new class. Tracking down a bunch of jackels in a plasma stormy mess is perfect for shake down. It has the bonus of being relatively safe, too. Maquis don't flat out destroy fed ships. Disable or computer virus all to hell but not destroy.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:06
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Bicyclops posted:Given that the Doctor is a pretty sophisticated and human person and also just a computer, how come Data doesn't understand emotions? Simulating emotion had already been invented by the time Data was built. He was intentionally left without that capability. 
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Oct 28, 2013 21:07
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Azurrat posted:Simulating emotion had already been invented by the time Data was built. He was intentionally left without that capability. But why was he left without emotion when having emotion makes the Doctor so enjoyable but being without emotions makes Data feel so depressed?
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Oct 28, 2013 21:08
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Because emotions made Lore a psychopath! Aspergers is the true path.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:09
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Haha no this got completely retconned out. TNG references a "disastrous" Tomed Incident with the Romulans, the Norkan "campaigns" remembered by the Federation as "massacres", as well as the Enterprise-C being lost with all hands fighting Romulan warbirds at Narendra; border wars with the Talarians; and the Cardassian War lasted long enough that Captain Picard was dealing with Cardassians when he was commanding Stargazer. The implication over all of this, however, was that these "wars" were more comparable to police actions than to anything like the Dominion war or even the tensions with the Klingons. The analogy that jumps to the forefront is America post-WWII; we've been involved in between two and seven "wars" in the last sixty years (depending on how you count), but none of these even come close to the common historical classifications of wars. Similarly, you can see the Federation getting involved with the Tzenkethi, the Cardassians, or a couple incidents where they were a third party and still have it be peacetime for even the majority of Starfleet, and certainly the Federation. They "won" the cold war with the Klingons, and it earned them a half-century of fires to put out around the quadrant.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:12
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Haha no this got completely retconned out. TNG references a "disastrous" Tomed Incident with the Romulans, the Norkan "campaigns" remembered by the Federation as "massacres", as well as the Enterprise-C being lost with all hands fighting Romulan warbirds at Narendra; border wars with the Talarians; and the Cardassian War lasted long enough that Captain Picard was dealing with Cardassians when he was commanding Stargazer. e: drat you Gau 
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Oct 28, 2013 21:15
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Haha no this got completely retconned out. TNG references a "disastrous" Tomed Incident with the Romulans, the Norkan "campaigns" remembered by the Federation as "massacres", as well as the Enterprise-C being lost with all hands fighting Romulan warbirds at Narendra; border wars with the Talarians; and the Cardassian War lasted long enough that Captain Picard was dealing with Cardassians when he was commanding Stargazer. Ehh, I always waffled that statement by imagining that the years between the TOS movies and TNG were "peaceful" for the Federation in the sense that the nineteenth century was "peaceful" for Britain. There were plenty of actual wars, but no signal conflagrations like the Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars that sucked in the entire continent. Wars would be handled by comparatively small groups of volunteers out on the imperial frontier rather than by a general draft, that sort of thing. Edit:...and I'm the third person to say the same thing. I will say, though, that I pictured the Tzenkethi to be the Trek equivalent of the Gulf War, i.e. a three-month campaign against a bunch of bug-eaters with carapaces trying to find reverse on an export-model D7. Not a worthy adversary. Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 21:16
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Bicyclops posted:But why was he left without emotion when having emotion makes the Doctor so enjoyable but being without emotions makes Data feel so depressed? Because emotions made Lore amoral and a bit of an rear end in a top hat, and Soong and his wife were worried that Data would react the same way. If memory serves, Soong intended for him to eventually get an emotion chip, but only after Data had "matured" enough to be responsible with it.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:18
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Azurrat posted:Because emotions made Lore amoral and a bit of an rear end in a top hat, and Soong and his wife were worried that Data would react the same way. If memory serves, Soong intended for him to eventually get an emotion chip, but only after Data had "matured" enough to be responsible with it. Anyway the Federation discovered that the only thing that Doctor's model was good for was mining and Andy Dick's model ended up killing Space Phil Hartman.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:20
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bobkatt013 posted:Anyway the Federation discovered that the only thing that Doctor's model was good for was mining and Andy Dick's model ended up killing Space Phil Hartman. But EMH mk3 (space Jon Lovitz) beat the poo poo out of him so it's all good
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Oct 28, 2013 21:26
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These are the voyages of Starfleet HR, San Francisco. Its continuing mission: to study strange new labor laws; to set up payroll for new life and new civilizations; to boldly handle Barclay's harassment complaints that no branch has seen before.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:27
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Rynder posted:These are the voyages of Starfleet HR, San Francisco. Its continuing mission: to study strange new labor laws; to set up payroll for new life and new civilizations; to boldly handle Barclay's harassment complaints that no branch has seen before.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:40
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I can hear the opening fanfare already.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:41
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Rynder posted:These are the voyages of Starfleet HR, San Francisco. Its continuing mission: to study strange new labor laws; to set up payroll for new life and new civilizations; to boldly handle Barclay's harassment complaints that no branch has seen before. J. J. is adapting this soon, but the Compensation department he added will prove controversial with fans.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:43
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Rynder posted:These are the voyages of Starfleet HR, San Francisco. Its continuing mission: to study strange new labor laws; to set up payroll for new life and new civilizations; to boldly handle Barclay's harassment complaints that no branch has seen before.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:00
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What about the episode where Rom starts a union?
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Oct 28, 2013 22:26
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Here is a stupid thing that I think you will like. It is called Scroll Down To Riker.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:46
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Yeah, exactly. That's a corvette/frigate, not a long range vessel. Very fast, very small, small crew, and then they get to the Delta Quadrant and have, like, no supplies. Except for all the torpedos and shuttle crafts.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:53
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This is the dumbest poo poo and I cannot stop laughing.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:56
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It's great. Everone Scroll Down to Riker.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:03
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^^ it is a pretty good way to kill 15 or 20 seconds Lowen SoDium posted:Except for all the torpedos and shuttle crafts. Somewhere out there is a great schematic of Voyager with like 900 shuttles stacked everywhere inside. I couldn't find it though.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:09
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a travelling HEGEL posted:The day I realized that Babylon 5 was more deeply written than most episodes of Star Trek was the day I watched the labor union episode. Explain what you mean by "deeply written," please.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:10
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Gau posted:The implication over all of this, however, was that these "wars" were more comparable to police actions than to anything like the Dominion war or even the tensions with the Klingons. The analogy that jumps to the forefront is America post-WWII; we've been involved in between two and seven "wars" in the last sixty years (depending on how you count), but none of these even come close to the common historical classifications of wars. Similarly, you can see the Federation getting involved with the Tzenkethi, the Cardassians, or a couple incidents where they were a third party and still have it be peacetime for even the majority of Starfleet, and certainly the Federation. They "won" the cold war with the Klingons, and it earned them a half-century of fires to put out around the quadrant. Nessus posted:Except the Cardassians, none of these sound comparable to the Dominion War, though, which seemed like Space WWII vs. I don't know, Space Vietnam. The Federation could fart its way through episodes of the latter on the basis of its big fat supply tail and willingness to blow up Mirandas, I expect. I suppose you could also get some interesting commentary on what war of that sort means for a post-scarcity society, too. Well of course they're not going to compare to the Dominion War because they're not the biggest wars ever fought.  So what you guys really mean is that the admiralty was never good because they've never had to lead a major war effort.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:17
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Well of course they're not going to compare to the Dominion War because they're not the biggest wars ever fought. Yeah, basically. The difference is that they went from a period of heightened tensions and preparations (with the occasional flare-up) with a single, well-matched empire (a la the Cold War), to a multipolar quadrant where they were sailing around putting out brush fires in the name of exploration and peace. Essentially, they went from a period of preparing for war with the Klingons (but pretending to not be preparing for a war) to a period of pretending that the galaxy was all Happy Friend Time when it was really Happy Tree Friends. I mean, let's be fair, Commodore Stocker wasn't exactly a pinnacle of command reasoning, either.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:34
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also the Refit Connie is the single best looking Star Trek ship ever, even better than the Galaxy class. The Miranda class is better looking than the Galaxy class. The Galaxy class is a dog. The only reason the All Good Things Galaxy is awesome is because of the phaser cannon. And extra nacelle.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:43
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Gammatron 64 posted:I heard there's some prince out in Qatar or something who wants to make a 1:1 scale refit Enterprise, though. From a few pages back, but the company I work for is building this:  The money is coming from outside investment companies, but King Abdullah is a big Trek fan and probably had a lot to do with there even being a Trek attraction. Paramount is doing the design work for it and it's based off JJ Trek's aesthetics.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:53
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Abdullah was an extra on Voyager too back when he was just Prince Abdullah.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:54
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Garrett Wang and Robert Beltran were extras on Voyager, too 
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Oct 28, 2013 23:58
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Goddamnit, billionaires. BUILD A STARFLEET HQ BUILDING IN SAN FRANCISCO, ALREADY.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:07
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Waterslide Industry Lobbyist posted:From a few pages back, but the company I work for is building this: I like how the concept art devolves into a spastic mess of LEDs and spotlights just like the movies, they really captured the aesthetics! Gonz posted:Goddamnit, billionaires.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:23
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Tighclops posted:kill yourselves so we can redistribute your unearned wealth in order to build an actual utopian future instead of pissing little bits of it away on glorified playsets for thoughtless rich nerds Hey, now. That's sounding a little space communist-y, comrade.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:33
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Every time a billionaire dies, his or her unearned wealth is equally redistributed and the world gets a little better. I vote we talk about something more realistic and likely to happen, like actual FTL travel.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:38
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