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I realized not long ago that I've been way underutilizing pillage. Pillage is a fantastic giant middle finger to post-war reconstruction. Pillaging a dozen tiles and capturing all their workers means your enemy has probably another 50 turns before they're back up to speed. Armor is awesome for pillaging. The high movement points means you can snag 2 o r 3 tiles a turn
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Nov 11, 2013 17:07
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Personally I love pillaging roads outside of borders, and sometimes parking a scout on the hex so they can't repair until border growth pushes it away.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:13
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Pillaging is probably the most irritating tactic you can suffer at the hands of the AI. Because of their massive production bonuses they can afford to trade their units for a few pillaged tiles and come out ahead on the deal.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:13
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With regard to capturing cities containing spaceship factories. Does anyone know how it works? In my last game, I was trying for a cultural victory instead of my usual science victory. Caesar was getting close to completing his ship so I launched a couple nukes at Rome and took it with some XCOM. During the assault you can clearly see his factory with the partially completed spaceship on it. 10-15 turns after the city capture, he gets his science victory with the completion of the last part. This would seem to imply that either you can move the parts after they've been added to the ship or the parts automatically get moved to your new capital and cannot be captured. Can anyone confirm what actually happens? If it does indeed automatically relocate, what's the point of even having a buildable factory anyway?
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Nov 11, 2013 17:37
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Spaceship factory isn't required for a science victory. It's just a building that adds 50% production when building spaceship parts. If you're particularly patient (or strapped for Aluminum), you can blast off without one. The ship and all assembled parts teleport to the new cap when you capture the old capital. If you're trying to prevent the ship from launching, pillage everything around it (including the roads) and the civ won't be able to get their produced parts into the city. He'll eventually build them from the capital, but that will take a while.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:55
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Could anyone spray some words about the Inca? I picked them up not long ago and got around to playing them, and eventually after a series of wars on the defensive achieved a science victory after a friend said science was the best way for them to go. Is this really the case, or are they more versatile than that? This was Prince mind you so maybe everything I've said is a big pile of fluff, but I'm working on moving up slowly but surely through the difficulties on each victory condition. Thanks in advance, I really enjoyed what I played so far of the Inca considering how good they are at they are of making the best of terrain everyone else would consider poison.
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Nov 11, 2013 19:32
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Gwaint posted:To pre-emptively address those who may say "But Monty keeps attacking me, how am I supposed to fight back if I can't conquer his cities without getting called a warmonger? He'll just remake his army and do it after 20 turns!": Pillaging is the way to go! Swarm your enemy's territory and pillage everything you see - that should set them back significantly without any diplomatic repercussions.
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Nov 11, 2013 19:46
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The Wicked Wall posted:Could anyone spray some words about the Inca? I picked them up not long ago and got around to playing them, and eventually after a series of wars on the defensive achieved a science victory after a friend said science was the best way for them to go. Is this really the case, or are they more versatile than that? Inca are UN-real with growth in areas with >30% hill tiles. Science is my preference with them since hilly terrain is usually next to mountains. Build observatories, go nuts, and enjoy your science victory around about the time the Wright brothers were freezing their asses off in Kitty Hawk. But with growth you can go for pretty much any victory type thanks to specialists. Go Freedom so you can continue your growth parade with the specialist food consumption reduction policy. Because you receive no hill movement penalty, I usually chop all forest on hills in my territory. Defense is a cinch when AI is hobbled by one movement and you can kite around them over hills. dayman fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2013 20:07
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Hey now, withdraw before melee ability on Inca slingers is awesome. It persists when the unit gets upgraded too, which is pretty neat. But it's not like I ever build archers (and thus slingers) before composite bows get researched.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:25
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dayman posted:Inca are UN-real with growth in areas with >30% hill tiles. Because they pay no maintenance on hill tiles, hill tiles basically get +1 food right off the bat and ALL other tiles get +1 food for every two since they're half maintenance. Eh? What does road maintenance have to do with food production?
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Nov 11, 2013 21:23
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Gort posted:Eh? What does road maintenance have to do with food production? Oops, Apparently I completely misunderstood their UA. Nevermind. Terrace farms just produce more food next to mountains. Oh well, I still had a hell of a game with them outgrowing everyone.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:54
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Nothing gets me to stitch from "let's build the spaceship this time" to "let's drown them in their own blood" faster than an unearned denouncement, especially from an AI with a poor army. I usually end up sending my reply via catapult. . . Ended up with a back door culture win instead, got to love the surprise victory screen!
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Nov 11, 2013 22:21
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The White Dragon posted:The problem is that the AI doesn't "experience" attrition. It doesn't care how many tiles you pillage and all it takes into account when calculating whether it should beg for mercy or not is how many of your units it can see in comparison to how many units it has alive. This is why you see all sorts of unbalanced "give me everything you have and we'll call this war even" offers from the AI even though you've been destroying every unit they throw at you, taken half their cities, and are descending upon their capital. This still happens? No, I'm genuinely asking here, I've found the AI to be pretty good about judging when I'm beating its face in... and I typically don't go out of my way to dominate them. Shoot them in the foot so they're not a threat to me, perhaps, but still. I would say I probably need to move up a difficulty level, but I find I really struggle on science and cultural fronts when I do so.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:31
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Terrace farms aren't awesome food tiles, they are production tiles that happen to give lots of food. If you want crazy food you want Aztecs or Dutch. Personally I'd go for Conquest as Inca. Lots of food-neutral hills means lots of easy production that you can use to pump out replacement units. No extra movecost for hill tiles (and that includes forest hills) gives a ton of maneuverability to your units, opening up tactical flexibility. Crest a hill and immediately open fire. Kite units through rough terrain. Charge straight through hilly chokepoints. Open up city sieges with the ability to fire from even more tiles on the first turn. Find Mt Kilimanjaro, and have all your hill terrain movecosts at 1/2 units instead of 1.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:36
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Phobophilia posted:Terrace farms aren't awesome food tiles, they are production tiles that happen to give lots of food. If you want crazy food you want Aztecs or Dutch. Mountain-less terrace farms aren't great food tiles, but proper terrace farms are. Settle in a good region and you can easily see many 4 or 5 food hills.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:48
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Gwaint posted:This still happens? Oh yeah, I definitely still get this a lot. The AI is still terrible at judging its situation at war. I'm almost under the impression that the Fall patch made it worse, but this could just be bias from the AI offering Open Borders for two different luxury resources.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:52
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One "exploit" is that the AI might be terrible at deciding if you will stomp his face, but he is smart enough to know when he's outnumbered. I took up Poland's offer to declare war on Sweden, and while Sweden had a much bigger army than I did, he still offered me all of his resources in exchange for peace after 10 turns of me doing nothing. Poland's massive army wasn't pushing either, so it was basically two free luxury resources + horses/iron. The best part was that since I didn't take any of his cities, we ended the war on good terms, later became friends, and jointly invaded Poland in another 50 turns.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:26
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Snipee posted:One "exploit" is that the AI might be terrible at deciding if you will stomp his face, but he is smart enough to know when he's outnumbered. I took up Poland's offer to declare war on Sweden, and while Sweden had a much bigger army than I did, he still offered me all of his resources in exchange for peace after 10 turns of me doing nothing. Poland's massive army wasn't pushing either, so it was basically two free luxury resources + horses/iron. The best part was that since I didn't take any of his cities, we ended the war on good terms, later became friends, and jointly invaded Poland in another 50 turns. I've had the AI give everything to me when I was on the other side of the map, with no access to their cities.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:38
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Ha, the very turn after I plopped down hotels and started negotiating open borders with people, Egypt goes "Okay we're fighting now, may the best man win." Well, okay. He's situated somewhere off in the middle of Asia so it's hard to actually get to him, but I'll figure something out.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:56
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I was just ganged up on by Shaka, Oda, unpronouncible assyrian dude and Catherine. (They didn't like me kicking Atilla to the curb) Defended against an impi/swordsman rush with three bowmen/crossbowmen and two swords (and some nice bottle-necked terrain), then burned a forward settled Zulu city to the ground and pillaged three tiles near his capital and he gave me another city to burn. Killed a Russian trireme with my then-upgraded logistcis crossbowman and she gave me a city to burn. I tried for a white peace with Japan and Assyria, but they both claimed to have "unfinished business" with me. 10 turns of nothing and they both gave me a city to burn.  5 cities killed, no losses.
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Nov 12, 2013 02:07
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Went down to Prince to get the Greed is Good achievement. I'm so far ahead it's boring. I'm attacking crossbowmen with infantry. (military victory being by far the fastest way to be done with this game) I have 7k faith saved up to get great scientists. I'm going to bulb them all to get airports, then do the airlift from Casablanca to Lisbon cheevo.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:40
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Is it worth it to go for a religion in Immortal? The opportunity cost of trying to get a religion up are high enough without having to compete against cheaters for the best beliefs. Trying to spread my belief and stuff just seemed like way too much of an uphill battle too. In my newest game, I got just enough for a pantheon, went for religious settlements (faster border growth), and promptly sold off my shrine when 4 civilizations founded religions before turn 80. 
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Nov 12, 2013 06:34
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Snipee posted:Is it worth it to go for a religion in Immortal? The opportunity cost of trying to get a religion up are high enough without having to compete against cheaters for the best beliefs. Trying to spread my belief and stuff just seemed like way too much of an uphill battle too. In my newest game, I got just enough for a pantheon, went for religious settlements (faster border growth), and promptly sold off my shrine when 4 civilizations founded religions before turn 80. Now I don't like to play on Immortal, but I'm pretty sure the Rule of  also applies here, you can religion as hard as you like provided you get Stonehenge (the rule being "you yourself don't have to build it").
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Nov 12, 2013 06:45
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I don't think the opportunity cost is that high tbh. On immortal you'll need a source of faith other than shrines/temples but there are a bunch of pantheons that can give you that. I guess I could see being conflicted if say you start in a desert with a river and lots of wheat on it. Do you take sun god and accept that you'll eventually lose it to some foreign religion or desert folklore and get your own, but miss out on that early growth? I'd probably go sun god and try to get friendly with a religious CS.
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Nov 12, 2013 07:03
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The biggest problem with playing on emperor and below for me is that war stopped being fun for me. It's a simple matter of positioning ranged troops and knowing not to overextend. It feels more like mop up than a real fight. Anyways, I have a shot at building the Hagia Sophia (12 turns until completion, not too behind other civs in terms of tech). I'm going to hope for the best. 
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Nov 12, 2013 07:55
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It is incredibly frustrating to get hosed by random factors that you don't learn about until late game. Like my most recent game where the commies and fascists were the only ones with any uranium while the free world had exactly zero. There wasn't a single city state (and I was allied with all of them) that had uranium while Communist Babylon had like 10. So yeah, my most recent game to get nuked. Then I ragequit.
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Nov 12, 2013 10:23
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So I was winning a culture game as Germany, fooling around with their new UB, when I realized it'd take 50 turns for Alex to go influential. I could have sent in my rocket artillery, but for once I had a bunch of spare uranium after throwing up nuclear plants all over. 10 turns(and 7 great scientist pops) later 22 German Giant Death Robots proceed to murder him back to the stone age. Culture win indeed. But I don't think the UB is all that good. Internal trade routes are so incredibly good for growth and after you get banks, you're generally not lacking for cash either. Don't get me wrong, 40-50% production is hilariously powerful, but I'd much rather have 15-20 more pop in my capital and first few cities. In combination with Freedom it's pretty good, but whenever I go freedom, I end up wanting to go order, because I like it so much more.
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Nov 12, 2013 12:52
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Cynic Jester posted:
Keep in mind you can go all internal trade routes pre-banking, get a big early growth spurt early on when it's most powerful, then trade with city states thereafter. After all, food trade routes become less and less useful as your cities grow since getting citizen #2 is cheap and getting citizen #22 is expensive. 40% more production remains useful always. Your statement that you can get 15-20 more population in multiple cities post-banking through trade routes alone seems highly suspect.
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Nov 12, 2013 13:10
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Fojar38 posted:It is incredibly frustrating to get hosed by random factors that you don't learn about until late game. Like my most recent game where the commies and fascists were the only ones with any uranium while the free world had exactly zero. There wasn't a single city state (and I was allied with all of them) that had uranium while Communist Babylon had like 10. So yeah, my most recent game to get nuked. Then I ragequit. I always see these situations as a challenge. Post your autosave from the turn you discovered uranium (if you have it). That said, I do think Uranium distribution is a bit terrible sometimes. They ought to have poorer but more numerous deposits.
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Nov 12, 2013 13:11
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Does trade route food just generate out of the ether, or does it actually remove food from one city to go to another?
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Nov 12, 2013 14:04
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Does trade route food just generate out of the ether, or does it actually remove food from one city to go to another? The former.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:07
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You can have two cities sending food to each other and both end up with a lot more food.  Even if you build a city in an ice covered wasteland, as long as you buy a granary your 2 pop city can still spare 6 food a turn to send to another city. No problem to send as much to seven cities more. Poil fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 14:40
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Just won my first Emperor game as Pocatello with an incredibly lucky start right next to a river and a mountain, as well as seven silver resources in the vicinity. I managed to get two more cities next to rivers and mountains (one of them Kilimanjaro), got donated som Keshiks (promoted into Comanche Riders) and it kind of took off from there. My coastal town being the weakest became a problem when Elizabeth, Gajah, Napoleon and al-Mansur simultaneously DOW'd, but in the end it all worked out - Arabia revolted, England and Indonesia were conquered and the remaining four decided Napoleon had to go while I built spaceships. My cites were pretty low pop but it worked out.
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Nov 12, 2013 15:12
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Gort posted:Your statement that you can get 15-20 more population in multiple cities post-banking through trade routes alone seems highly suspect. If you dedicate your trade routes to fuelling your cap, 15-20 isn't unreasonable. As order, you end up with 3 digits worth of food per turn over the other cap with no internal routes. 3 digits. Base. Before multipliers. I've hit 92 pop as Monty doing a gimmick growth build and that was with a landlocked cap. If I could have used Cargo ships instead, I'd probably have hit 100.
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Nov 12, 2013 15:15
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Cynic Jester posted:If you dedicate your trade routes to fuelling your cap, 15-20 isn't unreasonable. As order, you end up with 3 digits worth of food per turn over the other cap with no internal routes. 3 digits. Base. Before multipliers. I've hit 92 pop as Monty doing a gimmick growth build and that was with a landlocked cap. If I could have used Cargo ships instead, I'd probably have hit 100. How many unemployed citizens did you have?
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Nov 12, 2013 15:19
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canyoneer posted:I realized not long ago that I've been way underutilizing pillage. Pillage is a fantastic giant middle finger to post-war reconstruction. Pillaging a dozen tiles and capturing all their workers means your enemy has probably another 50 turns before they're back up to speed. you could also build railroads all over the place in their territory and let them suffer from its negative gold income, I have never seen a AI worker trying to remove a road or rail piece
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Nov 12, 2013 17:00
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Cynic Jester posted:If you dedicate your trade routes to fuelling your cap, 15-20 isn't unreasonable. As order, you end up with 3 digits worth of food per turn over the other cap with no internal routes. 3 digits. Base. Before multipliers. I've hit 92 pop as Monty doing a gimmick growth build and that was with a landlocked cap. If I could have used Cargo ships instead, I'd probably have hit 100. Forgive the naivety, how does order get you this food exactly?
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Nov 12, 2013 17:16
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Forgive the naivety, how does order get you this food exactly? Iron Curtain (Tier 3 Order) is 50% more food or hammers on internal trade routes.
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Nov 12, 2013 18:31
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What determines the food/hammer yield of trade routes? Is it automatically bumped up through ages, or do buildings/techs affecting gold income from trade routes affect food/hammer on internal routes at the same time?
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Nov 12, 2013 19:35
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canyoneer posted:What determines the food/hammer yield of trade routes? Is it automatically bumped up through ages, or do buildings/techs affecting gold income from trade routes affect food/hammer on internal routes at the same time? I believe it's just determined by the era you're in, and flat doubled if it's a sea-based route.
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Nov 12, 2013 19:39
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