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Super Jay Mann posted:What in the holy hell did I just watch? I personally think she was kind of fine with it, in that she was willing to give up her own happiness in return for Madoka's happiness. The series' solution was certainly not optimal for her, but it left Madoka 'alive' in a sense, and was what Madoka, even after ascending, wanted (see: space hugs talk), so she could live with it. That's why I feel their chat after the Kyuubey-business, where Madoka admits that while she definitey wants to continue being a Goddess for the sake of all Magical Girls, she isn't perfectly happy while doing so but misses her family and friends, marks the point where Homura's world crumbles around her, and she starts to lose it - her being close to losing it already might have been a factor too. She only kept going because she figured the current solution was the only one that fulfilled her goal of 'protecting Madoka', but in her mind if Madoka isn't living (well, existing) happily then it was a failure after all, and something different has to be tried.
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Nov 18, 2013 22:28
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Insurrectionist posted:I personally think she was kind of fine with it, in that she was willing to give up her own happiness in return for Madoka's happiness. The series' solution was certainly not optimal for her, but it left Madoka 'alive' in a sense, and was what Madoka, even after ascending, wanted (see: space hugs talk), so she could live with it. That's why I feel their chat after the Kyuubey-business, where Madoka admits that while she definitey wants to continue being a Goddess for the sake of all Magical Girls, she isn't perfectly happy while doing so but misses her family and friends, marks the point where Homura's world crumbles around her, and she starts to lose it - her being close to losing it already might have been a factor too. She only kept going because she figured the current solution was the only one that fulfilled her goal of 'protecting Madoka', but in her mind if Madoka isn't living (well, existing) happily then it was a failure after all, and something different has to be tried. The biggest factors I think: -She couldn't save Madoka originally, Madoka saved herself in the end. -Doubt and loneliness accumulates, with no way to verify Madoka's existence, she heads towards Witch. But, she would have been perfectly happy to be taken to heaven by Madoka once overcome. -QB's intervention --It exposes that Madoka isn't untouchable in her position. QB knows she exist, and SHE knows in turn how persistent the little bastard is about getting that power. --It exposes that Madoka can be interfered with by a Barrier. It means that she, in her present state, can do something about the situation. --Bottling her up, in an isolated space allowing more than despair to overflow. This makes it possible for her to transition to the greater witch form rather than losing her will before she can change things. It also makes her far more than crazy enough to do this.
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Nov 18, 2013 23:09
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Phobo, I don't want to say you're wrong because literature can be interpreted in many ways, but go SparkNotes Paradise Lost and try explaining your case again. On the epilogue: Note how Homu doesn't get to dance or be happy in the OP. Note the cheek rubbing thing. What does Homura do when she's finally free of her struggle? She dances and cheekrubs oblivion. In being severed from "salvation" vis a vis Madoka, Homura is finally her own person. Akemi Homura, protector of Madoka, can finally cease to exist. Also she's batshit insane now. And the Demiurge, a being created by God(oka) that in turn creates the world of Man. Gnostic sects consider the Demiurge evil, while Platonics consider is neutral to good. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 23:48
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Super Jay Mann posted:(love, LOVE the idea of fallen magical girls being able to embrace and use their witch barriers, I hope that gets explored in later works)
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Nov 21, 2013 05:28
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Factor_VIII posted:That also occurred in the Oriko manga. There's no reason why a witch couldn't control their barriers to begin with. Their power derives from fundamentally the same source as magical girls. Powerful emotions. The difference is that Witches are consumed by their emotions, and functionally insane, so they can't use the power to do anything but lash out. In exchange they're running on looped emotions, positive emotions can be exhausted but negative emotions tend to feed on themselves and grow. So you just need a form emotional collapse that leaves the Witch capable of acting. Despair and grief aren't very good picks since they mostly make you suicidal and withdrawn. Rampaging Yandere love would do it. Incidentally, it occurs to me that Witches seem to gravitate to remote places. All the 'wild' Witches at least. They also seem to be awfully common around girls that QB wants to contract. I wonder if the little bastard is planting grief seeds. He collects 'filled' grief seeds, but they seem to vanish into extradimensional transport. Consider Charlotte and Octavia, we know a grief seed hatching into a witch happens immediately with the magical girl's fall to despair. There shouldn't be a filled grief seed spiked into a wall in a crowded area, but it's also very close to Kyousuke, so there's no way Sayaka would let it fly, one of the two girls will contract to stop it with luck. Sayaka's transformation into Octavia also shows that someone on the brink of collapsing into despair will avoid people, she heads into an empty train station to hatch. Afterwards, when the others catch up to her, she's moved to an abandoned factory. What if filled grief seeds are intentionally deployed in the vicinity of a candidate? Either the Witch will cause a devastating accident, and he can offer a wish to undo that misfortune, or he can offer a wish so that they can stop the incident midway. In that sense, Walpurgisnacht might be simply the 'free' Witches, those who've wandered out of cities, eventually met one another, then sticking together because they're all lonely and sad.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:32
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Factor_VIII posted:That also occurred in the Oriko manga. I haven't really explored any of the supplementary materials, is Oriko (and perhaps something else) worth looking at? veekie posted:There's no reason why a witch couldn't control their barriers to begin with. Their power derives from fundamentally the same source as magical girls. Powerful emotions. The difference is that Witches are consumed by their emotions, and functionally insane, so they can't use the power to do anything but lash out. In exchange they're running on looped emotions, positive emotions can be exhausted but negative emotions tend to feed on themselves and grow. (movie spoilers again) In light of the movie I wonder about the nature of witches themselves. Like, does Sayaka even have a proper 'soul gem' anymore or is she literally Oktavia who is able to use 'Sayaka' as a vessel? I always assumed from how it was explained in the show that witches were the corrupted soul of the magical girl having broken out of the gem. Or what about Homura? Is she a witch now? Did she stop just short of becoming a witch? What do you even call her now? Is she a being of similar nature to Madoka or is that manifestation just because she stole her power? Some interesting stuff to consider. And hell, just what exactly are magical girls capable of anyway? I mean we have Godoka sure, but as the movie showed her power is actually somewhat limited and was easily overcome just by sheer force of will and emotion by (Witch?)Homura. Can there be even stronger manifestations of power and emotion by these girls than being able to rewrite the universe to your whim at will? Kyubey was on to something when he saw what Homura was doing and basically reacted with "Screw the harvest, I gotta get the hell out of here." 
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Nov 21, 2013 09:02
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Oriko is fairly alright, unlike Kazumi. My god, this thread is a lot like a minefield for me, but thank god people are at least using spoiler tags. When is this movie getting a blu-ray release again?
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Nov 21, 2013 14:32
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Mordaedil posted:Oriko is fairly alright, unlike Kazumi. Most likely Summer or Fall of next year, there hasn't been a date announced yet.
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Nov 21, 2013 14:43
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Super Jay Mann posted:I haven't really explored any of the supplementary materials, is Oriko (and perhaps something else) worth looking at? Witches do have a soul gem however. It's the grief seed, as the 'evolved' form of the soulgem. Defeating a witch is so difficult because you're basically fighting a magical girl with an enormous body and regeneration capacity, while if you hit and destroy their grief seed...you have nothing to loot. And of course, their grief seed can be anywhere within the barrier, not necessarily within their manifested body. You're just beating them up until they run out of power. Akuma Homura is basically a Witch catalyzed with an alternative emotion. The default witch usually falls to despair, because it's the base emotion left after you finish burning your positive emotions for power. The power of her desire overwhelmed everything and started looping over, with a little help from QB keeping her contained to the end, as well as the power she represented as the catalyst for the birth of the new order. Since it's all contained in her barrier, she can make changes to anything in the universe that way. I imagine it's not that different from Kreimhild Gretchen's barrier as described. A paradise for those within. Are there other emotions that can infinitely feed upon themselves? Most others would seem to diminish as you use them.
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Nov 21, 2013 15:11
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Super Jay Mann posted:I haven't really explored any of the supplementary materials, is Oriko (and perhaps something else) worth looking at?
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Nov 21, 2013 15:32
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Super Jay Mann posted:I haven't really explored any of the supplementary materials, is Oriko (and perhaps something else) worth looking at? If you're interested in looking into other Madoka Magica media, you should definitely read The Different Story. Its quality is about on par with the original series, and it gives much needed depth to Mami (and Kyoko, to a lesser extent).
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Nov 21, 2013 20:51
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MadRhetoric posted:Phobo, I don't want to say you're wrong because literature can be interpreted in many ways, but go SparkNotes Paradise Lost and try explaining your case again. Wow, that's an interpretation I haven't heard. It's fishy to me though. I mean, literally every form of imagery in the series wants you to know that Homura and Madoka are two halves of a whole and tied by destiny and all of that subtlety. To me the ending was reminiscent of the 'be careful what you wish for' theme at play in the original series. "Homura has finally secured Madoka's happiness, but is it worth it?"
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Nov 22, 2013 18:15
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Super Jay Mann posted:(movie spoilers again) I got the impression that both Sayaka and Nagisa exist at the point at which they were 'taken' by Godoka, so it's more that they're the superposition of both states simultaneously (Sayaka/Oktavia and Nagisa/Charlotte). They're able to freely use both forms, having achieved some sort of balance and 'transcending karma' as I think Sayaka says toward the end. It is interesting that in the setup for the next movie(s) or seasons that they've apparently decided to make Charlotte an important character (if that's who Nagisa really is). In a way, Charlotte was the most important character in the first series, setting off the chain of events that differentiated the final timeline, so it'll be interesting to see her role more fully fleshed out and see how the first series can be reinterpreted in that light. It is a shame, though, that Nagisa herself is a rather grating character.
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Nov 23, 2013 07:19
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A friend recently introduced me to Madoka Magica, and I watched all of the episodes in a weekend. Holy hell, this show was really good, and I need to watch the new movie.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:40
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I said come in! posted:A friend recently introduced me to Madoka Magica, and I watched all of the episodes in a weekend. Holy hell, this show was really good, and I need to watch the new movie. How much did you roll your eyes at him when the opening credits rolled on the first episode? 
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Nov 25, 2013 08:44
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Kaleid Stardust posted:Wow, that's an interpretation I haven't heard. It's fishy to me though. I mean, literally every form of imagery in the series wants you to know that Homura and Madoka are two halves of a whole and tied by destiny and all of that subtlety. Which is why the moon is split in half and Homura is on the edge of a cliff and Madoka goes all crucifixion pose before she splats into Pink Lemonade Tang. It's a splitting of the breast, since the ties that bound Madoka and Homura were ultimately harmful (Bunnycat's a dick and Homu's loving crazy) The dramatic thrust of the movie is how Homura and Madoka's connection to each other is perverted.
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Nov 26, 2013 05:52
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Mordaedil posted:How much did you roll your eyes at him when the opening credits rolled on the first episode? Not at all, I actually liked it. 
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Dec 1, 2013 00:25
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I loved the movie and it did not surprise me that Homura would do something like this at the end. She managed to complete her wish to the letter ("to meet Madoka again, but this time as the one protecting her, not as the one being protected"). Loved Homura's arc tbh. She solved her problems in a much more human manner, never did like the martyr characters. On the flip side she is most likely insane because of what she did and the fuckton of cycles she lived through. I don't even think she was calm enough at the end to feel the grief/shame/pain so I suspect she'll get worse.  She's like the little Homuhomu that could. She might've lived with the Godoka solution before she and QB hosed that up, but when it proved unfeasible she became MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE to reach her goal. Whoah. And you can't tell me that seeing the Incubators brought low and working under someone that hates them with undying passion is not satisfying. So yeah, it was immoral and selfish and whatnot, but she is God atm so deal with it. *hair flip*
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Dec 1, 2013 01:49
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MadRhetoric posted:Which is why the moon is split in half and Homura is on the edge of a cliff and Madoka goes all crucifixion pose before she splats into Pink Lemonade Tang. It's a splitting of the breast, since the ties that bound Madoka and Homura were ultimately harmful (Bunnycat's a dick and Homu's loving crazy) I offer another point. The red ribbon which symbolizes a red string of fate that ties the two together by destiny... Homura gave it back, an act which in my eyes serves as a concluding metaphor for the whole movie--that she has refused the fate that Madokami intended for her. By the way, my initial response to you was exemplary defensive listening. I took it as "Homura stopped caring about Madoka" for some reason.
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Dec 1, 2013 09:52
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I really, really wanted this too. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fc.center.fone_30249_320013777 Ever since the "tap Madoka" app broke.
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Dec 4, 2013 17:52
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The price is pretty steep, but I'll get the Homura version if it seems like they're fixing the minor glitches. Also one review notes that it overrides secure lock screens. Though I guess that's not the worst issue--just get a protection plan and hide your porn, dude...
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Dec 5, 2013 01:35
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Looks like it's going to be rainy tonight in New York City. Not very good weather for waiting outside the theater. When and where is everyone going to arrive in the city? EDIT: Never mind. Missed my train and the next one won't get me into the city with enough time to eat. Edward IV fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 20:28
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I'm at the theater for NYC now, about 40 or so people are already here.
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Dec 7, 2013 00:36
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jonjonaug posted:I'm at the theater for NYC now, about 40 or so people are already here. Oh, wow. Doesn't it start at 9? I'll be on a train in a half hour. Am I missing out on merchandise?
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Dec 7, 2013 00:39
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HellCopter posted:Oh, wow. Doesn't it start at 9? I'll be on a train in a half hour. There's no merch for sale. They will be passing out those autograph board things later but we aren't being told how many there are.
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Dec 7, 2013 01:04
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Enjoyed Rebellion a lot, I just really hope they have more episodes/movies planned. It'd kinda suck if it all ended on that creepy-rear end note. Seems like they do though, there were plenty of little "expect more of this later" details throughout the movie, like Homura's new grief-soul-seed-gem thing. Mostly though I just wanna see more of the ideas Rebellion introduced. Sayaka stabbing her heart out to have a loving Pokemon battle as Octavia was awesome 
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Dec 7, 2013 01:20
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Movie starts in 30 minutes, got some loot.
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Dec 7, 2013 02:27
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I got one of Mami and Nagisa. The guy next to me had Madoka and Homura.   Also, this group is so nerdy with 3DS's and stuff that it's hilariously awesome. Much more so than last time for some reason. Also, if you see a guy messing with a small Windows 8 tablet (specifically, the Dell Venue 8 Pro and probably a rarity I'm sure) that's me. Also, 7 minutes to go! Edward IV fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 02:53
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So incredibly jealous 
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Dec 7, 2013 03:12
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Mordaedil posted:So incredibly jealous Yeah. I almost got to see it but I ended up being out of town this weekend of all weekends. And it sounds like the Blu-ray isn't coming out for a long time so we won't get to see it for forever.
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Dec 7, 2013 05:17
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Anyone in North Carolina, I'm seeing Madoka tommorow (in a hotel now), and I want to know if it there is anyone to hang out with.
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Dec 7, 2013 05:18
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Unexpectedly for me, there is a theater here in San Diego playing it. So I'll be seeing it Saturday. Quite excited!
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Dec 7, 2013 05:30
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I'm on the bus ride home and I have no charge so I'll keep this brief. I liked it a lot, but I didn't love it. I'll type up more later.
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Dec 7, 2013 06:01
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If anyone's heading to KC for the movie on Sunday, I'll be there too. You know, so you can avoid me
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Dec 7, 2013 06:03
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I really hope I get one when I go. Is anyone else going to see the Montreal showing on the 15th?
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Dec 7, 2013 06:06
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I'm jealous of those little posters. There was only one showing in my state and I had to work. 
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Dec 7, 2013 06:26
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jonjonaug posted:I liked it a lot, but I didn't love it. Hm, same sentiments here. I feel like the ending to the series was enough, and that this is almost...unnecessary? Like, they had to find a conflict that made sense after the series ended, and this is what they came up with. Absolutely loved how the movie looked, though. Some of those scenes were beautiful. Someone on the creative team really bought into the Kyouko/Sayako shipping and made it canon. Not sure I really agree with that. Some of evil-Homura's crazyfaces were really good, too. It feels like, as has been said, a fandisc. A bunch of crazy stuff that couldn't happen in the series, so they fudged some rules and here we are, with breakdancing Sayaka and human-Charlotte (who appears for all of like 3 scenes, what was even the point). HellCopter fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 06:55
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Well that was fun. The visuals were gorgeous, as usual, the action was intense and awesome, as usual, and the soundtrack was amazing, again as usual. Overall, I liked it but the ending was weird. Not bad weird per say but just weird. Some highlights: It was great seeing everyone transform together and fighting as a team. It was everything that I wanted to dearly see what with everyone barely working together and teams falling apart in the TV series. Magical Quintet.  The cake scene afterwards was rather bizarre. If everyone singing in rhyme wasn't weird enough, Hitomi's blob head left me confused and perplexed. Weird doesn't even begin to describe it. That gun fight with Mami was loving insane. Urobochi must have been beside himself with the gunkata scene. It manages to completely outdo all the gunkata fights in Equilibrium thanks to Homura's time hax and Mami piggybacking off of it. Homura then going witch and then demon is where things got loopy for me. Still need to gather my thoughts on it before I can comment on it. So now what? Time to go back in the thread and see what all that spoilered fuss was all about. Edward IV fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 07:20
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Someone did yell "What the gently caress?" really loudly after the post-credits. Can't say I blame them.
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Dec 7, 2013 07:22
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HellCopter posted:Hm, same sentiments here. I feel like the ending to the series was enough, and that this is almost...unnecessary? This is how I feel. I guess it's not an objectively bad movie or anything, but...the original ending is drat near perfect. It's one of my favorite endings of all time. It would have been tough for the movie to surpass it and unsurprisingly, it didn't. Though the movie wasn't really a proper ending at all. It looks like they're prepping to milk this cash cow for all it's worth.
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Dec 7, 2013 07:23
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