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Pascallion posted:Star Trek: DS9 was all about fuckin' 
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Nov 21, 2013 23:59
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Shibawanko posted:I tried to watch Voyager a few months ago but couldn't. I think the biggest problem is actually the lack of sex - in the abstract, the utter absence of a libidinal economy, of desire and complexes and whatnot. They threw in Seven of Nine because they somehow felt that there was a need for sexuality in that show, but didn't want to actually create relationships between characters, so instead they just cast someone who looked sexy rather than acted that way. Such a boorishly phallic, pointless show. It's really weird to think that something like that was able to get prime time slots and whatnot, but I'm sure that's been discussed a hundred times. The only interesting episode was that time warp planet. What was phallic about Voyager? Besides Janeway's massive dong I mean.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:07
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counterfeitsaint posted:What was phallic about Voyager? Besides Janeway's massive dong I mean. The show had a woman as a captain, but had a thoroughly male, solipsist psychology going on. Characters are "complete" (except the doctor I guess) whereas the world around them is seen as flawed, and they have come to fix it. The whole thing can be easily re-imagined as a Hummer full of well-meaning American jocks on a road trip through an imagined version of sub-Saharan Africa (the Delta Quadrant is a kind of imaginary third world or ghetto) to teach the natives about America. Occasionally they get a flat tire, but they learn nothing about themselves. There was an episode where they find a rogue Starfleet ship that has gone through by patching itself up through questionable means, they should've made that ship blow up the Voyager and then continued on with its story instead. That would've saved the show.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:17
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Oh my god, you just made me picture a world where Voyager was basically Apocalypse Now meets Star Trek and now I'm depressed that we never got that.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:27
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Shibawanko posted:I tried to watch Voyager a few months ago but couldn't. I think the biggest problem is actually the lack of sex - in the abstract, the utter absence of a libidinal economy, of desire and complexes and whatnot. They threw in Seven of Nine because they somehow felt that there was a need for sexuality in that show, but didn't want to actually create relationships between characters, so instead they just cast someone who looked sexy rather than acted that way. Such a boorishly phallic, pointless show. It's really weird to think that something like that was able to get prime time slots and whatnot, but I'm sure that's been discussed a hundred times. The only interesting episode was that time warp planet. What
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Nov 22, 2013 00:31
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There was an episode where Janeway chewed out B'elanna and Tom Paris because everyone on the ship knew about them having dirty monkey sex in the Jeffries tubes and it was undermining the officer rank. Then there was the time where Q spent an entire episode trying to seduce Janeway and settled for a foxy she-Q, at which point they had Q sex right in front of everyone. And of course there's the episode where Harry Kim catches a space STD. Voyager gave us the line "Foreplay with a Q can last for decades!"
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Nov 22, 2013 00:42
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Shibawanko posted:There was an episode where they find a rogue Starfleet ship that has gone through by patching itself up through questionable means, they should've made that ship blow up the Voyager and then continued on with its story instead. That would've saved the show. That would be the most hilarious backdoor pilot ever. Episode ends with "And now, scenes from next week's episode of Star Trek: Equinox"
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Nov 22, 2013 01:07
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The idea of a bunch of factions from different points in the future fighting proxy wars in various important points of history, that's actually really loving cool. Having one of those battlegrounds be the years leading into the formation of the Federation, that's also really loving cool. I don't think Enterprise even did a bad job of it, either. Ahaha the whole thing never went anywhere and it's conclusion was basically "how do we sweep this under the rug before we get on with the business of relaunching the show"
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Nov 22, 2013 01:08
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Braga said they had no idea who Future Guy was. He was just Future Guy.
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Nov 22, 2013 01:14
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I think Harry Kim might be the starfleet officer ever to have been officially reprimanded for loving an Alien.
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Nov 22, 2013 01:22
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LeafyOrb posted:I think Harry Kim might be the starfleet officer ever to have been officially reprimanded for loving He is not allowed to have sex for the same reason he is not allowed to get promoted. Someone has to be the
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Nov 22, 2013 01:29
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Shibawanko posted:The show had a woman as a captain, but had a thoroughly male, solipsist psychology going on. Characters are "complete" (except the doctor I guess) whereas the world around them is seen as flawed, and they have come to fix it. The whole thing can be easily re-imagined as a Hummer full of well-meaning American jocks on a road trip through an imagined version of sub-Saharan Africa (the Delta Quadrant is a kind of imaginary third world or ghetto) to teach the natives about America. Occasionally they get a flat tire, but they learn nothing about themselves. I don't think you are as clever as you think you are.
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Nov 22, 2013 01:36
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Luigi Thirty posted:Braga said they had no idea who Future Guy was. He was just Future Guy. Berman later said he was gonna be a Future Romulan. Berman, being Berman, still later retconned himself by saying that his own earlier statements were a red herring and Future Guy was gonna be Future Archer. Even though that makes no goddamn sense.
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Nov 22, 2013 02:03
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McSpanky posted:Berman later said he was gonna be a Future Romulan. Berman, being Berman, still later retconned himself by saying that his own earlier statements were a red herring and Future Guy was gonna be Future Archer. Even though that makes no goddamn sense. I'm sure they had some vague ideas. Probably would have tied into the romulan war somehow.
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Nov 22, 2013 02:10
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I'm sure somewhere in Season 3 during the Xindi arc they just "gently caress it, forget the whole Temporal War thing, let's have aliens in Nazi uniforms." I could see some of the potential they had for the time travel/paradox poo poo they were going for. Most likely they didn't have the balls for it, but if the Temporal War ended with the NX01 sacrificing itself to ensure the proper future happens and they are erased from memory and why none of it was mentioned in the future series. That could have been cool.
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Nov 22, 2013 02:27
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Tighclops posted:Ahaha the whole thing never went anywhere and it's conclusion was basically "how do we sweep this under the rug before we get on with the business of relaunching the show" I actually really liked the Xindi arc, but its indicative of how hamfisted the show could be that what could have made a perfect end to that season, the enterprise and the andorians smashing the xindi deathstar ends up being bookmarked by god drat space hitlers from the future in America.
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Nov 22, 2013 03:44
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duck monster posted:I actually really liked the Xindi arc, but its indicative of how hamfisted the show could be that what could have made a perfect end to that season, the enterprise and the andorians smashing the xindi deathstar ends up being bookmarked by god drat space hitlers from the future in America. GOTTA HAVE A CLIFFHANGER
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Nov 22, 2013 04:16
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I always imagined that the Season 3 finale was Berman and Braga's parting gift to Manny Coto. "Oh, so you're the new showrunner? Well, follow this!"
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Nov 22, 2013 04:56
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Just finished Living Witness. I have to assume the unfortunate "What if the Holocaust didn't happen?" allegorical message was... unintentional.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:09
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Delsaber posted:I always imagined that the Season 3 finale was Berman and Braga's parting gift to Manny Coto. "Oh, so you're the new showrunner? Well, follow this!" It pretty much was, I think. Like, not even out of spite, just them trying to be helpful. "Here's a cool hook for you to resolve next season, haha yes! We are so smart, Rick. Anyway, I'm going to go do a couple lines of blow off a hooker's rear end in a top hat now, so I can really focus on this new show I'm developing about dinosaurs and time travel. Gonna be the next Voyager, guys, I got a good feeling about this one."
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Nov 22, 2013 05:19
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duck monster posted:I actually really liked the Xindi arc, but its indicative of how hamfisted the show could be that what could have made a perfect end to that season, the enterprise and the andorians smashing the xindi deathstar ends up being bookmarked by god drat space hitlers from the future in America. Eh totally worth it for the Space Blitzkrieg intro.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:59
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McSpanky posted:Berman later said he was gonna be a Future Romulan. Berman, being Berman, still later retconned himself by saying that his own earlier statements were a red herring and Future Guy was gonna be Future Archer. Even though that makes no goddamn sense. I'm having violent flashbacks to the rumours of a Doctor Who tie-in and oh my god can you even imagine how god-awful
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Nov 22, 2013 06:00
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Violent would scarcely suffice to describe my reactions if David Tennant had strolled onto the bridge of Enterprise in 2007.
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Nov 22, 2013 06:08
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Pascallion posted:Star Trek: DS9 was all about fuckin' Mods, new thread title.
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Nov 22, 2013 06:35
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duck monster posted:I actually really liked the Xindi arc, but its indicative of how hamfisted the show could be that what could have made a perfect end to that season, the enterprise and the andorians smashing the xindi deathstar ends up being bookmarked by god drat space hitlers from the future in America. Yeah this. The Xindi arc was where the show actually got compelling, with heavy continuity and characters making hard choices. Then they hosed it up with an ending where the Enterprise isn't even at Earth when the alien doom-ship finally arrives. 
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Nov 22, 2013 06:59
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McSpanky posted:Berman later said he was gonna be a Future Romulan. Berman, being Berman, still later retconned himself by saying that his own earlier statements were a red herring and Future Guy was gonna be Future Archer. Even though that makes no goddamn sense. The future is so broken by then that Archer *is* a Romulan.
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Nov 22, 2013 07:49
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DemeaninDemon posted:Eh totally worth it for the Space Blitzkrieg intro. I was about to say "I wonder if a show that was just a rolling showcase of balls-out crazy stupid poo poo happening all the time would sell well", but then I realized I was basically describing Doctor Who. EDIT oh I see someone already covered that angle, alright then
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Nov 22, 2013 08:03
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I think the season 5 ideas were good for Enterprise, as well as the planned refit of the ship.
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Nov 22, 2013 08:15
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rocket_man38 posted:I think the season 5 ideas were good for Enterprise, as well as the planned refit of the ship. To which season 5 ideas are you referring? Because the ones on Memory Alpha are pretty bad. - A Kzinti story called "Kilkenny Cats" - Four or five more mirror universe episodes - The Borg Queen's origin story - T'Pol's father is a Romulan Also, the refit is an awful idea.
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Nov 22, 2013 08:36
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Wow, season 5 sounds like dogshit.
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Nov 22, 2013 08:41
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Wow, season 5 sounds like dogshit. Well, the other ideas are slightly less horrible, like "let's revisit a place or person from the original series" x3 and "Romulan war. Except no actual war, just like, build-up to a war or something"
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Nov 22, 2013 08:44
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Wow, season 5 sounds like dogshit. "T'Pol's dad is a Romulan" might have had legs , but it would have needed some good writers to pull it off.
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Nov 22, 2013 09:58
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Yeah, T'pol always struck me as way more aggressive and mean and willing to do vaguely bad poo poo than the average Vulcan, so assuming that the reveal could have meant anything in the grand scheme of things and that the way it was woven into things made sense then it would have been perfectly fine.
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Nov 22, 2013 10:07
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Great_Gerbil posted:it's not irredeemably lovely. The most incorrect post on the internet.
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Nov 22, 2013 13:29
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Vagabundo posted:"T'Pol's dad is a Romulan" might have had legs , but it would have needed some good writers to pull it off. It also seems like a way to just explain away why Blalock couldn't hide her emotions, but it would make her like Spock in a certain way, reducing both characters. I prefer the idea that T'pol, like Tuvok, is just kind of a bad Vulcan. Whereas Tuvok had to be committed to a monastery as a child because his emotions were out of control, T'pol decides to actively pursue emotion because humans seem to do pretty darn well with it. But if her behaviour can be excused with "well, she's a half-breed, so of course", then it's a lovely cop-out. I'm of the opinion that the best Vulcan characters are the ones who struggle the most with maintaining their composure, to whom the icy placidity of Logic comes the hardest.
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Nov 22, 2013 15:44
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rypakal posted:The most incorrect post on the internet. There have been way worse posts. The Temporal Cold War was an interesting idea that wasn't written terribly well. But that's okay! Because the poor writing actually redeems it somewhat. The Enterprise crew--and by proxy--is left completely in the dark about what's actually going on.
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Nov 22, 2013 15:46
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I'm of the opinion that the best Vulcan characters are the ones who struggle the most with maintaining their composure, to whom the icy placidity of Logic comes the hardest. Definitely. What makes the race interesting as a concept is that they superficially act like robots, but actually have a huge amount of emotional depth that they're concealing. I think Nimoy and Russ pull this off really well. Blalock perhaps less so but that might just be Enterprise. I agree with RLM's criticism of Quinto in that his Spock is just angry. e: 'temporal cold war' is an interesting concept because you can make a plausible case for the founding of the Federation being the most obvious period to centre a time-war around. But setting it up in the pilot literally sends the message that they couldn't think of any compelling stories for Enterprise that didn't have time travel woven into the back-plot. What they needed was a couple of seasons of good stuff to lay out their setting and then to gradually ramp up the cold-war stuff (a bit like DS9 did with the Dominion). Instead Daniels gets treated like a really poo poo and boring version of Q, who pops up in the occasional episode to present the crew with a conundrum they must solve otherwise PERIL. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 15:53
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Great_Gerbil posted:There have been way worse posts. The Temporal Cold War was an interesting idea that wasn't written terribly well. But that's okay! Because the poor writing actually redeems it somewhat. Theoretically I suppose the idea of time war could be done well. We'll find out this Saturday! I'm convinced that they capped off season 3 with space nazis because they didn't want to be remembered for the Temporal Cold War being the stupidest thing they've ever done.
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Nov 22, 2013 16:36
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I guess you don't remember the Blue Nazis being part of that storyline, huh?
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Nov 22, 2013 16:39
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The main problem I have with the TCW is that it was never very clear for the audience what was happening. There were so many different factions and it was never clear who was who and what they wanted. I guess I'll spoil this. So, the Sphere Builders are manipulating the Xindi to interrupt the formation of the Federation. This is done so that in the future the Federation doesn't stop them and they can invade normal space. Fine, I can understand that. Who were the Suliban working for and why? Were they working for the future-past Nazis? What did the Nazis want besides also interrupting the formation of the Federation? Honestly, the TCW could've been a neat idea if we had a few more Star Trek shows set in other eras and we could ultimately have one show set in the 29th century where we follow Daniels or other temporal agents as they travel around the different eras of the Federation fighting the other factions. Enterprise didn't need anything more than the formation of the Federation to be interesting and if there was a show dedicated to the TCW, we could have gotten more in depth with what it was really about and who the actors in the conflict were. Instead we got "Daniels shows up, tells Archer to stop a thing cause it's important. Archer does and Daniels disappears. Repeat a few episodes later."
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Nov 22, 2013 17:03
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