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IAmUnaware posted:What do people think of the Pyramids as the Liberty wonder? I find that even when I go Liberty (which is pretty rare), I have no desire to build the Pyramids because I need to build or steal a first worker pretty early to start getting luxuries online to counteract expansion unhappiness, and after that and the free worker from the right side of the tree I just don't need two more. Does anybody like it or find themselves using it a lot? Nope, it is bad, you have the right idea. Kind of unfortunate, especially since Tradition gets a very powerful wonder (That you will never build because the AI is assuredly getting it before T60 on higher difficulties)
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Nov 30, 2013 19:02
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You poor fucker, your starting circle doesn't have ANY bonus resources in it. I'm not seeing any Marshes, either. That's one of those rear end in a top hat trick starts that looks really nice but by the time your borders expand to get the benefits, you've been left in the dust.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:21
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Yeah it's not as great as I first thought, but it's not so bad. I have pretty good production in my capital (snagged Machu Pichu on Immortal) and I have another city with 5 marshes in its circle. Speaking of which, what's up with polders not draining marshes? Pain in the rear end to still have to navigate them one at a time. Also, I didn't know city states could actually gift you landsknechts if you have unlocked them.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:43
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Yeah, that's a decent start, but it's not amazing. I had a river/coastal start with China once where I pretty much had a fifth of the continent to myself, plenty of stone and one marble by the capital, and 6 or 7 gems in the entire region all reasonably clustered together. The only way anyone could have attacked me was by sea or by crossing two mountainous/hilly passes guarded by my citystate allies. Whenever I felt especially threatened, I just bribed one of my neighbors to invade each other. I sat back and turtled until I unlocked artillery and that Volunteer Army tenet from Freedom (6 free Foreign Legion units, 6 unit free maintenance). I basically had WW2 era infantry slaughtering medieval era Roman troops. That was my only immortal game where I was comfortably ahead of my competition in every way (science, population, production, wonders, culture, tourism, most widespread religion, etc). It felt almost like an emperor game after I got my fourth city up. I stopped playing after I captured all of the capitals on my continent and was almost three times the score of the next civilization.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:52
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Marketing New Brain posted:Nope, it is bad, you have the right idea. Kind of unfortunate, especially since Tradition gets a very powerful wonder (That you will never build because the AI is assuredly getting it before T60 on higher difficulties) Actually, I find that I can usually get the Hanging Gardens on Deity, but it does have to be prioritized.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:21
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IAmUnaware posted:Actually, I find that I can usually get the Hanging Gardens on Deity, but it does have to be prioritized. There is really no way to get that wonder reliably on Deity, so I don't know what you are talking about. The only wonders the AI doesn't grab absurdly fast are The Oracle and Petra, for obvious reasons. And you can sometimes complete The Pyramids on turn 150 because the AI never goes Liberty. You can also get The Colossus but it puts you on the bad tech path that leads to being incredibly behind through the Renaissance. It is possibly to delay writing on Deity because of the absurd beakers you get from early trade routes, but I wouldn't because you are still going to get beat almost all the time on most games unless you beeline for it which seems terrible. Egypt alone being in your game will make it 100 percent impossible, and there are probably other AI I just forget who else values it that high.
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Dec 1, 2013 06:34
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I typically have a good shot at building the Porcelain Tower and Taj Mahal as well, but really if you want to commit one or two trade routes for a wonderful (ha) capital, you could probably build most of the midgame/endgame wonders. The problem is that internal food trade routes are almost always better, and most wonders are not worth the hammers in higher difficulities. It's so satisfying conquering other civilizations that prioritized wonders over their military too. Oh, and I'm going to second Marketing New Brain and say that The Oracle and Petra are usually doable (and both are highly recommended if you have a decent production city!).
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Dec 1, 2013 12:11
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Snipee posted:I didn't notice that big of a difference going from king to emperor. The real jump is in emperor to immortal. Wonder spamming stops being a viable strategy, and you pretty much have to declare war on a neighboring civ to keep up with everyone else. This. Without sucking gold from the AI you have to start war.
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Dec 2, 2013 00:37
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For anyone who doesn't have Brave New World or other DLC odds and ends yet, it is 66% on sale on Steam. The other DLC is 75% off.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:45
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Alright. Newbie here. I recently bought Civ 5 Golden + BNW (yes on sale..) and I'm not sure I am doing it right. Or rather. I know I'm not doing it right. - My first game is (Yep. Still going on my first game; just beat the tutorials) on turn 200ish and I am in year 1230ish AD. All settings are on random and I was given Hiawatha as my city. I've done some research and heard Venice is a quite phenomenal partner, as soon as they offered a friendship I accepted. Also. Whenever the AI asks for "accept embassy" I often just trade them, as I get gold and luxury from it. (It doesn't really matter if they can see my city or not imo.) I am no. 2-4 on the happiness but 3-6 on wonders build. OPTION 1. That being said. I am wondering whether or not to engage on my neighbor(below me) city Wellington. Currently I'm in a trade with them and has been since turn 30. They are currently level 9 (same as I) and haven't got any good military yet. - Obviously this engage will disarrange all of our trades. But I believe I'd gain more than lose, if I do win. My plan is to make them my puppet or liberate them, in the hope of them choosing to obey me. - Btw. I've only scouted a couple of unites. Just around 5 I'd say. Currently I've got 12ish scattered around his capital. OPTION 2. So my second option is to go trade a war with my friends of Venice and hope they will engage with Japan (previous I traded them to become enemies with my current target) and I Sorry. My obvious target is Assyria, as they have been harassing my friends and tried to make me their ally. Not only. They haven't got much of an army. I'd say around 6-10 units and they are quite behind in-game. - I'm positive I can get 2 if not 3 civ's to engage with me. As I am new to Civilization 5, I'd be more than happy for some tips and tricks. (I've been friendly throughout my entire game and I haven't made enemies as for yet.)
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Dec 2, 2013 14:42
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I also just purchased the game and after a few days playing managed a cultural win.  I'd say be careful when you attack a city, they hit surprisingly hard so it's a good idea to have some ranged units and siege units when taking one. I found the cultural victory very amusing. I turtled with three cities as the Incans and refused to be dug out. The Russians and Huns went to war with me around 1300 AD and never stopped sending units until 1950 went I researched nukes. The Russians had a tech edge me most of the game and their units were usually twice as effective as mine, but there was only one way into my territory and I had three Great general forts at the chokepoint.  Once I had 8 or so nukes I simply launched them at Russia's largest cities (Russia was situated right next to one of my cities over a mountain range) and dropped the population of her cities to half or less. That put an end to her speedy tech research and prompted an abject surrender where she gave me all her resources including 16 uranium and 30 aluminum (which I never had the opportunity to use. ) One turn before my culture win I declared war on the entire map and launched all available nukes on those smarmy asholes.
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Dec 2, 2013 14:59
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Hah! Sounds like great fun! I can't wait for my future in this game. - I've mainly focused on ranged, as I research and was told it would be the best as you can bob and weave. I'm only in 1200ish and I just bought one catapult unit in hope of a city war soon. I planned to win without fighting, but it turns out that's harder than it looks.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:03
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TheMooseOwns posted:Hah! Sounds like great fun! You can definitely win without going aggressive, but in my experience civs will just up and declare war on you for no apparent reason. To be fair I am completely lost by the diplomacy aspect of the game, which you seem to have a good handle on, so good luck I guess! Actually, when a more experienced player reads this, WHY does everyone hate me in this game? I'll have a civ offer a declaration of friendship, open borders and then all of sudden they jump me for no reason. 
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Dec 2, 2013 15:06
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TheChad posted:You can definitely win without going aggressive, but in my experience civs will just up and declare war on you for no apparent reason. To be fair I am completely lost by the diplomacy aspect of the game, which you seem to have a good handle on, so good luck I guess! Could be you are a great danger for them and they decide to betray you. But honestly I am not sure.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:19
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TheChad posted:You can definitely win without going aggressive, but in my experience civs will just up and declare war on you for no apparent reason. There's about 20 stats for each civ and there's some super weird interactions between them. For example, Russia tends to avoid war, but if a war gets started, they will go hardcore and refuse peace until every single one of your cities is burning. Hiawatha and Dido will spam tiny lovely cities absolutely everywhere, even if it ends with their empire absolutely miserable. Bismark doesn't tend to start wars against even people he hates, but will smack his best friend in the teeth if you wave enough money in his face. You can look these stats up if you want, but really if you play enough games you'll start to pick out the patterns. EDIT: for example, here's Gandhi. code:Most of the stats can be found here. Click the name of the leader, not the Civ. SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 15:21
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Is there a counter to nukes anyways? edit: that's hilarious. edit2: I'm surprised Elizabeth only has a 6 in the willingness to denounce section. She's chain denounced pretty much everyone in my games. (whatever that does) Bright Future fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 15:30
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The AI is designed more towards being an impediment to your victory than having any kind of consistent logic. Your neighbor hates you for your shared borders, anyone who assesses your army to be much smaller than theirs might come after you, friends of your enemy hate you, and some leaders are just predisposed to declare war on everyone no matter what. Some are inclined to treachery, and don't mind backstabbing their allies. Some are deceptive, and will appear friendly even if they're neutral or plotting. Everyone hates someone who's too successful in conquest. There's a very good post somewhere in this thread that details all the things the AI likes or hates you for and their respective weighted values but unfortunately I don't have the link. You're highly unlikely to go an entire game without a war, but you can mitigate quite a bit. Your neighbor is always a threat and should always be treated with suspicion. Mutual embassies and open borders give minor friendship boosts, but the best is trade routes. AI Civs prefer not to disrupt their income from a trade network, so caravans going both ways have a pacifying effect. If you make them mad enough, of course, they'll still come after you. The army size thing you're kind of stuck with. Unless you're playing blindfolded, you have a massive tactical advantage and economic disadvantage compared to the AI. In combat, you can easily exchange units 1:10 with the AI, but they can out-produce you and afford the maintenance. Ranged units are obscenely powerful, and if you have enough archers (and screening melee units) to repel an invasion that closes the gap a bit. When World Congress and ideologies come into play, people will hate you for not agreeing with them there too. Voting against their proposal, voting for or proposing something against their interest, or being Freedom when they're Order. Abstaining is often a good bet, or throwing your buddy's proposal a pity delegate and assigning the rest to the one you care about. Beyond that, a LOT of geopolitics in Civ5 is driven by friend-of-friend relationships. Denouncing or warring people your friends like will harm your relationship, as will making friends with their enemies. Unfortunately the unmodded game is garbage for collecting this information so you just have to remember it. If you don't care about achievements, and I recommend you don't, grab InfoAddict off the Steam Workshop. When you start a game through the "Mods" menu, it adds another window to the "x Overview" list and one of the tabs gives you a very handy wheel/web layout of global politics. This lets you see all the deals, 'official' status (war/DoF), and 'attitude' (friendly, neutral, etc.) between every civ you know. It also allows you to view this window from the Diplomacy pop-ups, so you're not stuck accepting/declining a proposal blindly.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:36
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I had no idea you could run a trade caravan to another civ. Do you just need to build a road? to any of their cities or does it have to be their capitol? I suppose you can do the same to a city state.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:53
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TheChad posted:I had no idea you could run a trade caravan to another civ. Do you just need to build a road? to any of their cities or does it have to be their capitol? I suppose you can do the same to a city state. It's ridiculously powerful: a science lead is very powerful in every victory type. More population means more science, and more food means more population. I tend to run 3 cities, and have my first 6 caravans all running from one city to another providing food. No roads required, though I think they maaaaaaybe increase income a little. Doesn't matter, because Sea Trade routes are much, much better than Land Trade routes and you should have every single trade unit slot occupied by a boat, if possible.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:57
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Roads only extend the range of land routes, I think.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:07
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Poil posted:Roads only extend the range of land routes, I think. Building a Caravansary or Harbor extends Caravans' and Cargo Ships' range by 50%, and then another boost in range later in tech. I do not think building roads affects trade route range.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:14
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There is some interaction between trade routes and roads that I remember hearing about but 1) it's so minor that I've never been able to figure it out in 413 hours of play. 2) every caravan you build is a cargo ship you didn't build. Seriously just build Cargo Ships, they're better in every single way.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:18
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Yeah ships are vastly better and you should use them as much as possible.dayman posted:Building a Caravansary or Harbor extends Caravans' and Cargo Ships' range by 50%, and then another boost in range later in tech. I do not think building roads affects trade route range.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:19
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Ah, I haven't grabbed Brave New World yet.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:26
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:There is some interaction between trade routes and roads that I remember hearing about Playing my first landlocked game that also happens to be my first deity game. All I can say is thank goodness for terrace farms because I really miss those cargo ships.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:39
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I haven't played Civ5 in awhile but just picked up the DLC. Any basic tips to keep in mind for the new content, especially the Brave New World stuff?
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Dec 2, 2013 21:22
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dayman posted:Building a Caravansary or Harbor extends Caravans' and Cargo Ships' range by 50%, and then another boost in range later in tech. I do not think building roads affects trade route range. Road tiles count as half a square for distance calculations. When you mouse over a city in the caravan destination screen you will see the caravan draw the 'route' that it plans on taking, and you can see if there are any road tiles that it will use on the route. So it's basically "for each road tile the caravan can use on the route will extend the effective range by half a tile" If you had a road that connected two cities 25 tiles apart, you could send a range 15 trade route between them. Or a more likely scenario - if you have a destination 17 away from you but there's 4 road tiles the caravan can use, you will be able to select it as a destination for your range 15 trade route. I have not done any testing with Railroads to see if they extend the range further.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:32
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TheMooseOwns posted:OPTION 1. Never rely on the AI to do your dirty work for you. The golden rule of Civ 5 is, gently caress everyone up yourself (and do it as early as you possibly can) because ultimately, the diplomacy AI is still really schizophrenic and will backstab you because you bought a tile on a different continent from them so there's no such thing as game-long alliances. Everyone will eventually hate you no matter what you do, so you might as well just burn everything to the ground if only to stop the constant torrent of denouncements and remarks from Hostile civs. Trast posted:I haven't played Civ5 in awhile but just picked up the DLC. Any basic tips to keep in mind for the new content, especially the Brave New World stuff? The AI prioritizes enacting certain resolutions in the World Congress. As far as I'm aware, the priority goes like this: 1) World Projects (you can exploit this to your advantage and force the AI to choose it for you while you take the opportunity to vote in something else beneficial only to you like World Religion, Embargo, Ban Luxury, or Cultural Heritage Sites) 2) Embargoing or banning the luxuries of their enemies 3) Repealing resolutions detrimental to themselves 4) Scholars in Residence 5) Arts Funding (or Sciences Funding, in the rare case of civs that favor it) The diplomacy bonuses and penalties involved with the World Congress decay really fast, so don't rely on them for poo poo. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 21:33
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Trast posted:I haven't played Civ5 in awhile but just picked up the DLC. Any basic tips to keep in mind for the new content, especially the Brave New World stuff? Send food to the capital, get it nice and fat.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:38
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The White Dragon posted:
My understanding--this is based on a conversation in this thread from a month or two ago--is that the science and culture penalties are based on the maximum number of cities you've owned at any point. That is to say, if you have 3 cities of your own and then you go and take and burn 3 cities from Napoleon in quick succession (because seriously, gently caress that guy) then you'll be penalized as though you own 6 cities even after you're finished razing the 3 you conquered. But if you take one, burn it, take another, burn it, take the third and burn it, you'll only be penalized as though you own 4 cities. Is this accurate, can anybody confirm?
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Dec 2, 2013 21:59
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The White Dragon posted:1) World Projects (you can exploit this to your advantage and force the AI to choose it for you while you take the opportunity to vote in something else beneficial only to you like World Religion, Embargo, Ban Luxury, or Cultural Heritage Sites) Much more accurate. Also in my experience Arts Funding is most AIs' favorite thing ever, even more so than world projects. I hardly ever see them go for Scholars in Residence. Overall I find the World Congress experience extremely lackluster and disappointing. It seemed cool the first two or three games, and then it quickly became a rote bore.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:My understanding--this is based on a conversation in this thread from a month or two ago--is that the science and culture penalties are based on the maximum number of cities you've owned at any point. That is to say, if you have 3 cities of your own and then you go and take and burn 3 cities from Napoleon in quick succession (because seriously, gently caress that guy) then you'll be penalized as though you own 6 cities even after you're finished razing the 3 you conquered. Yepp. It's also why if you're completely destroying a civ and razing all their cities, you should do it one at a time and take the capital last.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:15
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Cynic Jester posted:Yepp. It's also why if you're completely destroying a civ and razing all their cities, you should do it one at a time and take the capital last. Always leave at least one of their smaller cities alone. If you take their capital last, you'll wipe them out of the game, and that has a tendency to make every other civ immediately hate you for the rest of existence.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:37
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Max posted:Always leave at least one of their smaller cities alone. If you take their capital last, you'll wipe them out of the game, and that has a tendency to make every other civ immediately hate you for the rest of existence.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:40
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Max posted:Always leave at least one of their smaller cities alone. If you take their capital last, you'll wipe them out of the game, and that has a tendency to make every other civ immediately hate you for the rest of existence. Which is why I prefaced it with "If you want to completely destroy a civ", such as before you meet any other civs. If you take someone out before you've met other civs, you won't take any diplomatic penalties.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:46
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Cynic Jester posted:Which is why I prefaced it with "If you want to completely destroy a civ", such as before you meet any other civs. If you take someone out before you've met other civs, you won't take any diplomatic penalties. Also make sure you wipe out any 'witnesses' as well
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Dec 2, 2013 22:48
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Flagrant Abuse posted:The same seems to apply if the AI does it, too. In my current game, Indonesia wiped out the Maya, and the entire rest of the planet denounced them on the next turn. As well they should. No one who dares bring harm to The Hat should be permitted to live.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:53
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What triggers "clearly you are a wise and benevolent ruler"? i thought it was owning nukes, but this game I owned them for a while before dido actually told me how wise and benevolent I am. Is it because I had the world religion and world ideology too?
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Dec 2, 2013 22:55
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Here's a curious notion that's come up in my current game. I wiped out England, but before doing so America took one of their cities. I'm now at war with America. If I take that city and liberate it, bringing England back, that should actually offset the diplomatic penalty I took for knocking out England, right? That could be an interesting cheese tactic if you can play it right.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:08
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SlightlyMadman posted:If I take that city and liberate it, bringing England back, that should actually offset the diplomatic penalty I took for knocking out England, right? No I've heard they still hate you. And I assume they're going to denounce you and possibly join the war on America's side (if they feel their army is big enough).
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Dec 2, 2013 23:15
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