|
warcrimes posted:Never not have Raging Barbarians on. I hated barbarians until someone recommended I turn Honor on and use them to my advantage. The result, BTW, was that crazyassed Morocco game I posted last page. So yeah, I see no reason not to turn on Raging Barbs moving forward.
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:40 |
|
|
LogisticEarth posted:Regarding policy tree order, what's a good lineup for a science victory? Tradition, then just beeline Rationalism? How about after that? Order for +25% science from factories or Freedom for the academy/specialist synergy. Freedom allows you to buy spaceship parts with gold, too, which shaves quite a few turns off on its own. It can be worth putting a few points into Patronage for science from city states, but don’t sweat it. They give a respectable boost if you recruit them early enough, but past research labs their contribution becomes negligible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 20:40
|
|
|
LogisticEarth posted:Regarding policy tree order, what's a good lineup for a science victory? Tradition, then just beeline Rationalism? How about after that? Usually Rationalism is still locked off even after you finish out Tradition. So you'll usually end up in a situation where you splash some points into another tree like Patronage, Commerce, or Exploration. I like Exploration if I have coastal cities, the +1 vision and +1 movement is great, as is the +3 hammers for production and the +1 happy for coastal structures. That extra happy can help you get past some of the early "Happy Crunch" points where you have coloseums but not zoos and may be at 4 cities already. So if I'm going naval, or have lots of coastal cities, that one can be quite nice. I find Commerce useful if I have a moneymaker civ or want to have better purchasing power or gold generation. If I want to build big roads the discounts are nice, and if you have a commerce heavy civ, Protectionism is a really nice finisher. Incidentally Inca own with the road discount as every road and railroad they make is free. I find Patronage useful if I am going to be focusing on relations with city states - maybe there's a key city state or I'm going for a diplomatic win. Consulates are wonderful, and if you go heavy into the tree you get really nice science and other bonuses. Honor is great if you are going to be clearing lots of barbarian camps or want to go warmonger and have some nice bonuses (faster xp gain, money and culture from barbs, see barb camps) in the process.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 20:45
|
|
|
Popete posted:As a follow up, I am playing a game with a friend tonight who has over 500 hours were as I have around 90. I really wanna destroy him, is Japan still pretty much unstoppable in multiplayer?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:25
|
|
|
Peas and Rice posted:I hated barbarians until someone recommended I turn Honor on and use them to my advantage. Raging Barbarians hurts the computer a lot more than it hurts you and gives you a huge advantage. If you're already comfortable playing on the higher difficulty levels turning raging barbs on just makes the game easier.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
I'm still trying to catch up on all this new stuff. Is there a good resource out there that lists things like Civs to go Tall, Civs to go wide, policy synergy and the like?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:30
|
|
|
Make a Highlands map. Play Pachacuti. You'll innately have an easier time with warfare due to your hill mobility, and on top of that you'll have a bunch of growth benefits which will (among other things) translate to research advantages. Granted, your friend might even the field on research by playing as, say, Korea.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:31
|
|
|
Trast posted:I'm still trying to catch up on all this new stuff. Is there a good resource out there that lists things like Civs to go Tall, Civs to go wide, policy synergy and the like? Civs to go tall with: All of them Civs to go wide with: None of them There you go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
Some are better for wide than others, or less bad if you prefer. But the optimal strategies involve tall, and rationalism policies. I suspect that in Civ 7 (or even 6) you won't be able to build settlers anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:39
|
|
|
Yeah unless they balance out the stupid rear end internal trade routes tall is going to be king forever. Adopt Landed Elite quickly, put a priority on making a National College, and send a bunch of sea food routes to your capital and bigger cities. If you're playing under Emperor difficulty, congrats; you won the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:46
|
|
|
Hah, did the latest expansion really swing things so far to tall cities? That is fine by me since I'm usually playing a small empire but I figured I'd look for some variety. I guess that got nipped. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:46
|
|
|
Trast posted:Hah, did the latest expansion really swing things so far to tall cities? That is fine by me since I'm usually playing a small empire but I figured I'd look for some variety. I guess that got nipped. Yeah, the science penalty for more cities really hurts. ICS was dumb and all but only founding 4-6 (with 6 being pretty loving rare) cities in a game is getting really dull.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:52
|
|
|
uPen posted:Yeah, the science penalty for more cities really hurts. ICS was dumb and all but only founding 4-6 (with 6 being pretty loving rare) cities in a game is getting really dull. Yeah Civ 5 BNW certainly put the brakes on expansion and on warmongering. I really wonder whether they swung the pendulum just a hair too much - no expansion means that competing for land is not an issue, and warmongering has turned into something you do to selectively remove specific cities and threats. I know ICS was too much, and Warmongering was a bit too easy, but it does seem to be that at this point you have a 4x game that feels a bit uncomfortable with 2 of the xs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 21:54
|
|
|
Rakthar posted:Yeah Civ 5 BNW certainly put the brakes on expansion and on warmongering. I really wonder whether they swung the pendulum just a hair too much - no expansion means that competing for land is not an issue, and warmongering has turned into something you do to selectively remove specific cities and threats. Even post-patch, Mongolia on Marathon can take down 20 civs at once, so they're still an option. Are Keshiks just as dominant in multiplayer, or is the AI just too dumb to understand combat against them?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:01
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Order for +25% science from factories or Freedom for the academy/specialist synergy. Freedom allows you to buy spaceship parts with gold, too, which shaves quite a few turns off on its own. Ew, no, Order sucks. Freedom all the way. Specialists that consume half food will always beat out a lackluster +25% Science since it's only from your base population and flat Science production, it ignores all bonus beakers. You can have size 28 cities with +25% Science, or you can have size 60 cities with Academies that produce +4 Science on top of that plus you'll have the exact same Happiness rate since most of your pop will be Specialists who consume half food and produce half  . No-brainer, that.They should really balance the Ideologies. If they made it Engineers + Merchants produced half under Freedom and then Engineers/Scientists under Order, then there'd still be a choice between the two. As it stands, since the game is now completely about building as tall as you possibly can, the megaspecialists you get from Freedom means that there's pretty much no reason to go Order or Autocracy except for achievements.AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Even post-patch, Mongolia on Marathon can take down 20 civs at once, so they're still an option. Are Keshiks just as dominant in multiplayer, or is the AI just too dumb to understand combat against them? 1) Ranged units 2) who can move after attacking 3) and have 5 goddamn Movement. They'll wreck even human opponents up until, like, Artillery, or if you gently caress up and let them get Great Wall. If you engage in favorable terrain, they're outright literally untouchable, even outrunning other Mounted units if you bait them intelligently and your opponent doesn't catch on. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Dec 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:04
|
|
|
Trast posted:Hah, did the latest expansion really swing things so far to tall cities? That is fine by me since I'm usually playing a small empire but I figured I'd look for some variety. I guess that got nipped. Besides the science penalty for number of cities, what I think tipped the balance is that the number of trades routes you have available is the same no matter how large your empire is. That goes a long way towards closing the gold/production gap between wide and tall strategies. The White Dragon posted:Ew, no. Freedom all the way. Specialists that consume half food will always beat out a lackluster +25% Science since it's only from your base population and flat Science production, it ignores all bonus beakers. You can have size 28 cities with +25% Science, or you can have size 60 cities with Academies that produce +4 Science on top of that. No-brainer, that. Freedom is the better ideology in most cases, but the thing is that if you’re rushing a science victory, your cities will never get close to size sixty. There simply isn’t enough time for the halved consumption to have much effect before you have to start popping great scientists. The +25% beakers takes place immediately.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:14
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Ew, no, Order sucks. Freedom all the way. Specialists that consume half food will always beat out a lackluster +25% Science since it's only from your base population and flat Science production, it ignores all bonus beakers. You can have size 28 cities with +25% Science, or you can have size 60 cities with Academies that produce +4 Science on top of that plus you'll have the exact same Happiness rate since most of your pop will be Specialists who consume half food and produce half Wait did you say size 60 cities? Holy poo poo I've never thought of letting a city get that big.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:16
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Ew, no, Order sucks. Freedom all the way. Specialists that consume half food will always beat out a lackluster +25% Science since it's only from your base population and flat Science production, it ignores all bonus beakers. You can have size 28 cities with +25% Science, or you can have size 60 cities with Academies that produce +4 Science on top of that plus you'll have the exact same Happiness rate since most of your pop will be Specialists who consume half food and produce half Plus you unlock the Statue of Liberty which gives all those specialists a hammer on top of whatever else they produce.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Even post-patch, Mongolia on Marathon can take down 20 civs at once, so they're still an option. Are Keshiks just as dominant in multiplayer, or is the AI just too dumb to understand combat against them? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:38
|
|
|
CommonSensei posted:Plus you unlock the Statue of Liberty which gives all those specialists a hammer on top of whatever else they produce. And the absolute best pre-ideology policy tree (Rationalism) boosts specialists even further.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 22:39
|
|
|
LogisticEarth posted:Regarding policy tree order, what's a good lineup for a science victory? Tradition, then just beeline Rationalism? How about after that? I advise Tradition into Patronage, because it allows you to easily backdoor diplo victories, or block them. Unless you are Babylon and practice it a lot, it is basically impossible to get Rationalism right after Tradition.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:15
|
|
|
Is there a way to viably play a wide civilization just for the sake of building a bunch of cool poo poo, without being hosed with by the AI? And what setting would that be? Like... huge continents plus, one other civ, no city states, find them early and box them in, and then just slowly build to your heart's content? I used to turn the money cheat on in Civ 4 and play that way sometimes and it's fun in so far as you can build without being interrupted (even if it's not a fun way to play the real game). Edit: Like, I'd love to look at the map and see it 90% covered by my civ's color.  Edit 2: I suppose setting my opponent to Venice with 0 city-states would solve for that... Peas and Rice fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:39
|
|
|
Dunno, I go wide all the time regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. I also never go rationalism because it's boring.  The downside of reducing the number of AIs is the remaining ones tend to poo poo out a million cities faster than you. Venice AI with no city states = barb heaven. Have fun. If you want to cover the map to your color, all you have to do is pick a civ good for conquest. Try out Assyria, you won't fall behind in tech as much with their wonderful UA.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:56
|
|
|
"Raging Barbarians hurts the computer a lot more than it hurts you and gives you a huge advantage. If you're already comfortable playing on the higher difficulty levels turning raging barbs on just makes the game easier." Unless you get a terrible start location, higher difficulties are always more fun. If you get a lovely location, it just takes far too long to catch up and actually engage the ai. Or maybe I'm just a chicken and overly anxious to declare war on civs a tech level ahead of me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 01:34
|
|
|
Peas and Rice posted:Edit: Like, I'd love to look at the map and see it 90% covered by my civ's color. Hiawatha seems to do this in every single game I play so I'm sure you could manage it too if you put your mind to it! The biggest disadvantage is your tech will blow but if you play on Prince or something that doesn't really matter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 01:56
|
|
|
Peas and Rice posted:Is there a way to viably play a wide civilization just for the sake of building a bunch of cool poo poo, without being hosed with by the AI? And what setting would that be? Caeser is your man, maybe not on the very highest difficulties but if you get your Romeball going then the +25% building production boost gives you surprisingly good late-game expansion speed. Plus dem legionnaires, tiles on tiles of roads and forts every day.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 02:08
|
|
|
Sovietski posted:Caeser is your man, maybe not on the very highest difficulties but if you get your Romeball going then the +25% building production boost gives you surprisingly good late-game expansion speed. e: Marathon of course
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 02:50
|
|
|
How viable is a Mayan theology rush? I find the idea awesome, and when I tried it the other day, I managed to squeeze out basically all of the possible great people, which didn't really make a difference because I was getting hammered in every other respect. Rushing renaissance tech is a real pain in the rear end. fake edit: Why isn't it calendar? WHY?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:07
|
|
|
MoreLikeTen posted:How viable is a Mayan theology rush? I find the idea awesome, and when I tried it the other day, I managed to squeeze out basically all of the possible great people, which didn't really make a difference because I was getting hammered in every other respect. Rushing renaissance tech is a real pain in the rear end. It kind of depends on your difficulty. King and below, no problem; hell, you can still get a Civil Service slingshot on King. It'll all depend on hard hard you want to war in the early game (if at all), but all you really need is to tech hard into Philosophy and try to time your Great Library as close as you can to the turn you complete it. Mining can help if you're feeling lucky on research speed or if you just got it out of a ruin. Theology's only prerequisite is Philosophy and you can hit that plenty early. Probably play on Marathon for the best results.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:18
|
|
|
Wouldn't this mean that the Mayans basically get a free wonder every epoch? Or can you only take Great Engineer once?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:52
|
|
|
You can't select the same great person twice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:54
|
|
|
kaschei posted:You can't select the same great person twice. Bummer. Still, that's a free wonder, a free technology, a free great work, etc. I wonder why I haven't tried the Mayans yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:55
|
|
|
kaschei posted:You can't select the same great person twice. You can if you get to Theology fast enough. I forget what the threshold is, but any great people you get with Long Count before a certain year are free.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 04:25
|
|
|
I think what happens with Long Count is that if you've managed to pick all of the Great Person types once, when the next option comes up you get to pick from the whole list again. I've read that rushing Theology let you do that in G&K, but the two new GP types in BNW have made that a lot harder if not impossible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 04:37
|
|
|
Glidergun posted:I think what happens with Long Count is that if you've managed to pick all of the Great Person types once, when the next option comes up you get to pick from the whole list again. On the other hand, picking great artists, writers, and musicians doesn’t increase the cost of the rest of your city‐generated great people. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 05:09
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:On the other hand, picking great artists, writers, and musicians doesn’t increase the cost of your city‐generated great people. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 05:15
|
|
|
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I just started a game as Spain and found El Dorado, roughly ten tiles away from my capital, before anyone else. This is going to be a great game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Yeah, I'd love to get some Ancient- or Classical-era Great Writers. Some of those Works of Writing wonders' Theme Bonuses are loving horrendous if you don't have wild variety in your eras. I'm playing my first BNW game and I guess I don't fully grasp the new Great Artist etc. concept. Do they not affect the generation of Great Engineers like in G&K? And how do theme bonuses work? Each time a Great Writer/Artist/Musician has appeared I've just used it to create a work, but I feel like there's more that I should be doing with them or more than just putting it in a building and never touching it again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 09:09
|
|
|
Andorra posted:I'm playing my first BNW game and I guess I don't fully grasp the new Great Artist etc. concept. Do they not affect the generation of Great Engineers like in G&K? And how do theme bonuses work? Each time a Great Writer/Artist/Musician has appeared I've just used it to create a work, but I feel like there's more that I should be doing with them or more than just putting it in a building and never touching it again. All the cultural Great People are produced in the same way as all GPs, but they all have their own pool of points. Generating a Great Artist will only increase the cost of another Great Artist. Great Works are partly the only way you can get a lot of culture in BNW, but there are still uses for them. The Writer's Political Treatise is a big hunk of culture that you can use for some essential policy. Great Musicians are really helpful in the modern era when you can do Tourism bombs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 09:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:40 |
|
|
Huh, so it turns out you can double dip on your own Pantheon belief for a little while right after you found a religion in your secondary cities who are majority aligned with your old pantheon but have a few followers of your new religion. That's pretty cool -- made me raise 16 faith per turn from El Dorado instead of 8. edit: I can't believe I forgot to mention it, but this is with the Religious Tolerance social policy. It effectively considers your pantheon to be the majority religion and your religion to be the minority, so it gives you the pantheon belief of the minority religion, effectively doubling your own pantheon belief. Could be useful for some strategies using the more powerful beliefs, like God of the Sea or Desert Folklore. Heavy neutrino fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 10:44
|
|