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Atlas Hugged
Mar 12, 2007


Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all
Is "natural born citizen" actually an unsettled bit of constitutional law? I always took it to mean you had to be born in a US territory.

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ShortStack
Jan 16, 2006

tinystax
I think the traditional definition is that a person shall be considered a natural born citizen if they are a White Anglo Saxon Protestant.

ReidRansom
Oct 25, 2004


Autumncomet posted:

I don't think there's anything saying dual citizens can't be president either.

The US, as a matter of policy, generally doesn't recognize dual citizenship beyond that it exists. There are no laws specifically mentioning it, and only US citizenship is considered when dealing with people who have dual nationality with another country.

Modern Day Hercules
Apr 26, 2008

Atlas Hugged posted:

Is "natural born citizen" actually an unsettled bit of constitutional law? I always took it to mean you had to be born in a US territory.

The "natural born" part just isn't really specifically defined in the constitution itself and it's only used like that one time, so some people like argue about what it means. Those people aren't generally lawyers because it's pretty well established that "natural born citizen" just means that you were a citizen the the time of birth.

Atlas Hugged
Mar 12, 2007


Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all
In other words it's another example of my high school history teachers having no loving clue what they were talking about.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

Atlas Hugged posted:

In other words it's another example of my high school history teachers having no loving clue what they were talking about.
I'll never forget that my high school history teacher said that Hitler was a Communist.

ShortStack
Jan 16, 2006

tinystax
Maybe it means one cannot be president if one was a cesarean section baby as opposed to a natural vaginal birth.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Atlas Hugged posted:

In other words it's another example of my high school history teachers having no loving clue what they were talking about.

Not really, because usually the most common way you have citizenship by birth is by being born in the US.

Atlas Hugged
Mar 12, 2007


Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

computer parts posted:

Not really, because usually the most common way you have citizenship by birth is by being born in the US.

Except that's not how it's framed or taught. I was literally taught by multiple people, "You must be born on US soil to be president."

GROVER CURES HOUSE
Aug 26, 2007

Go on...

Atlas Hugged posted:

Except that's not how it's framed or taught. I was literally taught by multiple people, "You must be born on US soil to be president."

More than one GOP politician claimed this and I'm not willing to believe that all of them were self-serving liars.

Not even the majority. :colbert:

LP97S
Apr 25, 2008

It's amazing he is literally the only man in history to lose money while owning not one but two casinos.

max4me
Jun 15, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
can someone explain the birth certificate to me.

If I recall correctly Hawaii has two types of BC and they are not considered public record.

Just like how people question whether tupac is dead because you cant get death certificates in Nevada

skaboomizzy
Nov 12, 2003

There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

LP97S posted:

It's amazing he is literally the only man in history to lose money while owning not one but two casinos.

Seriously, I can't get over this. "The house always wins" is the first rule of casinos. If you go bankrupt running a casino, you are literally the worst businessperson in the world. There are illiterate bookies running out of the shittiest bars or strip clubs imaginable making six figures every year. Sheldon Adelson made his billions from casinos.

Donald Trump literally took the most iron-clad money-making machine in recorded human history (short of prostiution) and managed to run it into bankruptcy. Nobody ever calls him out on this. How can you own several casinos and still lose money?

GROVER CURES HOUSE
Aug 26, 2007

Go on...

skaboomizzy posted:

short of prostiution

Nope, neither legal nor illegal prostitution are anywhere near as stable as a casino. Trump is the patron saint of terrible businessmen.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

skaboomizzy posted:

Seriously, I can't get over this. "The house always wins" is the first rule of casinos. If you go bankrupt running a casino, you are literally the worst businessperson in the world. There are illiterate bookies running out of the shittiest bars or strip clubs imaginable making six figures every year. Sheldon Adelson made his billions from casinos.

Donald Trump literally took the most iron-clad money-making machine in recorded human history (short of prostiution) and managed to run it into bankruptcy. Nobody ever calls him out on this. How can you own several casinos and still lose money?

In their defense, the casinos probably made money, but Trump funneled all of their income into his failed real estate plans.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

pentyne posted:

In their defense, the casinos probably made money, but Trump funneled all of their income into his failed real estate plans.

That still doesn't make Trump a savvy businessman.

But then again I'm reminded of that rich kids documentary in which his daughter is interviewed and she talks about back when he was deeply in debt and they walked past a homeless beggar while exiting their million-dollar apartment or whatever and Trump told her something to the effect of how that guy is lucky because while he has nothing, Trump was deeply in debt, aka, has even less than that beggar. His daughter is so proud of dear daddy for getting through that horrible period. Also I think it was her, could be some other spoiled brat, that thought giving money to poor people was just the most hilariously jokey thing to suggest she'd do with the money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xhuSxyHWRw

Seriously, all the kids in this video are terrible human beings and should be parted from their wealth post haste.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Dec 14, 2013

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

Atlas Hugged posted:

In other words it's another example of my high school history teachers having no loving clue what they were talking about.

Yeah the version I got in high school was that you had to be born on U.S. soil to be eligible for presidency.

My Q-Face
Jul 8, 2002

A dumb racist who need to kill themselves

Orange Devil posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xhuSxyHWRw

Seriously, all the kids in this video are terrible human beings and should be parted from their wealth post haste.

If ever you needed confirmation of Fitzgerald's point about the vacuousness of the rich...

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001
I can't count to four.
Yams Fan
My understanding is that most of Trump's failed businesses only lose other investor's money.

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

max4me posted:

Just like how people question whether tupac is dead because you cant get death certificates in Nevada

There is a whole wonderful world of stuff behind the Tupac Lives conspiracy, of which the death certificate is only one tiny part. It's a really interesting read if you are interested in a conspiracy theory that isn't actively detrimental to the republic.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe


"Yes, speak more of me. Feed me! Literally anoint me with life energy."

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
BlackAndRight is a conservative so we can say whatever the gently caress we want you guys


Kevin D. Williamson has got you guys number :smug:


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336481/risk-relativism-and-resources-kevin-d-williamson

quote:

Risk, Relativism, and Resources
Three things conservatives must know about progressivism in order to defeat it

By Kevin D. Williamson

Conservatives understand the intellectual roots of conservatism better than progressives do, for obvious reasons, but we also understand the intellectual roots of progressivism better than progressives do. That is the case in no small part because progressives prefer to think of themselves as non-ideological pragmatists and empiricists, and they are immune to the irony that their just-the-facts pose is only an echo of vintage “scientific socialism” and related 20th-century ideologies with which our contemporary progressives claim to have no kinship. (I know a guy who wrote a book about that.) Progressives do not study Marx, Bismarck, Croly, or their other intellectual founding fathers, because they do not believe them to be their founding fathers — and also because many of them are kind of embarrassing.

But even though we study the Left’s thinkers, spend years in the universities they administer, and swim in the popular culture they dominate, conservatives still occasionally fail to appreciate critical aspects of the progressive tendency — especially the most attractive ones. Perhaps we should make a New Year’s resolution to better understand them, if not for reasons of charity and intellectual probity (we should always engage our opponents on their most meritorious arguments), then at least because doing so will help us to advance in the theater of ideas.

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The political preferences that produced two terms for President Obama have been with us for a long time and will be with us long after the gentleman from Honolulu has completed the 82nd volume of his memoirs, and we would do well to better understand its attraction. The desire of one part of the population to live at the expense of another certainly is part of that, but conservatives are kidding ourselves if we think that the Democratic constituency consists entirely of freeloaders.

With that in mind, there are three ideas that should help guide conservatives’ thinking and policy prescriptions.

First: Progressives and those who sympathize with them are economically risk-averse compared with conservatives. As Charles C. W. Cooke recently pointed out, the terms “conservative” and “liberal” are sometimes confusing in the American context, and that is certainly true in the case of financial risk, about which conservatives are not conservative at all. As an academic study published in the American Journal of Business put it: “As the economic political orientation of the subjects in our study becomes increasingly conservative (meaning they lean more towards an economically libertarian position as opposed to an economically socialistic position), they assume significantly higher levels of risk in their investment decisions.” Other studies find similar results.

There are many ways to measure financial risk tolerance, but consider this: One of the riskiest things you can do with your money is start a business, and entrepreneurs and small-business owners skew heavily Republican. The 2011 survey from the National Small Business Association found that 54 percent of the organization’s members identified as Republicans, while only 16 percent identified as Democrats; it is significant that more small-business owners identified themselves as independents in the survey than as Democrats.

The Democratic party is in fact a coalition of financially risk-averse groups: Women, blacks, and Hispanics all exhibit a high degree of financial risk-aversion when compared with whites and men. Even when controlling for income, white households are more likely to invest in stocks and other relatively risky assets compared with non-white households, and men are more likely to invest in stocks than are similarly situated women, though those differences are somewhat diminished when accounting for net worth and education. Black and Hispanic households, even when adjusted for income, are more likely to invest in low-risk, low-yield assets such as government bonds:

African-American households are particularly conservative in their investment style, preferring real-estate assets and insurance products to stock and bond investments. Even within these relatively more popular investment categories, however, the mean values for all categories of real-property investments across the African-American sample lie well below their corresponding values in white households. This trend persists across all income and education levels.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Yes, rich people certainly do have more financial tools available and a better ability to recover from putting themselves out on a financial limb than the poor and middle-class do.

Rygar201
Jan 26, 2011
I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.


nm posted:

Well, you wouldn't want to actually give up your access to truly universal health care and a good safety net, would you?

His wife works at Goldman Sachs, so his healthcare is roughly on par with Golden Age Mount Olympus.

ShorStack posted:

Maybe it means one cannot be president if one was a cesarean section baby as opposed to a natural vaginal birth.


:golfclap:

Acquilae
May 15, 2013

I feel left out when Conservative criticism articles like these ALWAYS leave out Asians when they compare women and minorities to men and whites :(

e: They must still be figuring out why we voted Obama on a 3:1 basis while being the ethnic class with the most conservative principles.

Acquilae fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Dec 14, 2013

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
We must kill all the white people. Then we'll be free.

The Rokstar
Aug 19, 2002

by FactsAreUseless

The Constitution posted:

Fear not, America, no man not born of woman shall e'er have power upon thee.

Von Sloneker
Jul 6, 2009

as if all this was something more
than another footnote on a postcard from nowhere,
another chapter in the handbook for exercises in futility

Orange Devil posted:

But then again I'm reminded of that rich kids documentary in which his daughter is interviewed and she talks about back when he was deeply in debt and they walked past a homeless beggar while exiting their million-dollar apartment or whatever and Trump told her something to the effect of how that guy is lucky because while he has nothing, Trump was deeply in debt, aka, has even less than that beggar. His daughter is so proud of dear daddy for getting through that horrible period. Also I think it was her, could be some other spoiled brat, that thought giving money to poor people was just the most hilariously jokey thing to suggest she'd do with the money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xhuSxyHWRw

Seriously, all the kids in this video are terrible human beings and should be parted from their wealth post haste.

Not that I needed multiple aneurysms, but I decided to watch this thing anyway, and a) the Trump quote was even more harebrained: "That [homeless] guy has eight billion dollars more than me;" and b) the woman laughing hysterically at the mere idea of giving a million dollars to the homeless, A&P Supermarket heiress Juliet Hartford, then added after some contemplation, "I just have so few houses, like in the Bahamas and London."

To be fair, a few of those kids do seem self-aware and conflicted, even sympathetic. But holy poo poo that Cody Franchetti dude. Every stereotype compacted into one shining quintessence. Quoting Schopenhauer, bitching about proper lapel height. He is smarm incarnate.

Guilty Spork
Feb 26, 2011

Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.
On Twitter a bunch of Pro-Lifers have been doing a #PrayToEndAbortion hashtag. Patton Oswalt jokingly tweeted that people should get an #AbortToEndPrayer hashtag going. Anyone with any comprehension at all would have realized that this was not in fact "let's kill religion and have ALL THE ABORTIONS for real in real life because we just love abortions!", but rather "they made a thing, let's make the opposite thing wouldn't that be funny."

Erick Son of Erick is apparently a bit slow on the uptake:

Erick Erickson posted:

Libs on twitter rally around abortion as a means to exterminate the religious. Fitting, given King Herod, etc. fb.me/6xOdkZYIY

beatlegs
Mar 11, 2001

Guilty Spork posted:

On Twitter a bunch of Pro-Lifers have been doing a #PrayToEndAbortion hashtag. Patton Oswalt jokingly tweeted that people should get an #AbortToEndPrayer hashtag going. Anyone with any comprehension at all would have realized that this was not in fact "let's kill religion and have ALL THE ABORTIONS for real in real life because we just love abortions!", but rather "they made a thing, let's make the opposite thing wouldn't that be funny."

Erick Son of Erick is apparently a bit slow on the uptake:

Contrast & compare with Megyn Kelly now claiming her "Santa/Jesus is white" comment was "tongue in cheek". She was joking! OMG can't liberals take a joke?

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

beatlegs posted:

Contrast & compare with Megyn Kelly now claiming her "Santa/Jesus is white" comment was "tongue in cheek". She was joking! OMG can't liberals take a joke?
Well, she's claiming that the Santa part was tongue in cheek, but apparently she sincerely thought Jesus was white, and now thinks it's up for debate or something: "By the way, I also did say Jesus was white. As I've learned in the past two days, that is far from settled."

max4me
Jun 15, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
Serious question, I m gonna be careful cause in my head its sounds like a troll. I know the religious right loves Israel for messed up reason regarding the ending of the world.

I know in the early 20th century jews werent regarded very well, and that after the holocaust there was movement to include jews in our "Judeo Christian heritage"

Megyn Kelly is playing to her audience, "Jesus was white" does saying "Jesus was Hebrew AKA jewish" really throw off her perception? cause I thought Jews are now white. Since the only groups bitching about them are neo nazi....oh dear did I just answer my own question?

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

Blah blah blah blah!!


I have said it before and I will say it again. Fox News is literally a station of and for white supremacists. This Isn't hyperbole or me saying some joke about them being nazis or something. They are quite honestly for the dominance of the white race. Why the hell else would Santa or Jesus' race be up for any type of conversations in the slightest. I know there has been a lot more examples too. It just baffles me that the Highest rated news channel is a white supremacy channel.

The_Rob fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 15, 2013

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


max4me posted:

Serious question, I m gonna be careful cause in my head its sounds like a troll. I know the religious right loves Israel for messed up reason regarding the ending of the world.

I know in the early 20th century jews werent regarded very well, and that after the holocaust there was movement to include jews in our "Judeo Christian heritage"

Megyn Kelly is playing to her audience, "Jesus was white" does saying "Jesus was Hebrew AKA jewish" really throw off her perception? cause I thought Jews are now white. Since the only groups bitching about them are neo nazi....oh dear did I just answer my own question?

Jews ascended to the pantheon of white people after WW2 when they stopped being an urban proletariat in America, blacks and Mexicans became much scarier minorities than Jews and Catholics, and when Israel started being best buds with the USA and enemies of Communism. Cultural memories / historical opinions of Jews in the USA have more to do with Yiddish speaking immigrants from eastern Europe who came to New York than with Israel, because Israel didn't exist as a Jewish country before 1945. So aside from fading cultural memories of them drat Jews and Catholics in the minds of old WASPy people, there isn't much of that traditional antisemitism left in the culture of the right.

So to answer your question no, 'Jesus was Jewish' is not controversial at all today among Megyn Kelly's audience. If anything they consider Israelis to be the only civilized white people among the savage A-rab population of the larger Middle East, regardless of their actual ethnic origins and skin color. If you want to troll right wingers say Jesus was basically Syrian or Lebanese and closely related to modern Arabs, or something similar tying him to Arabs. It's true also and will probably make them really mad because Arabs and Muslims are subhuman to them.

edit: vvvvvv There was no joke. She said it to appeal to the Fox's white supremacist audience, and then she denied ever having meant it because you can do that in the post reality era

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 15, 2013

Time to read Zinn
Sep 11, 2013
the humidity + the viscosity

beatlegs posted:

Contrast & compare with Megyn Kelly now claiming her "Santa/Jesus is white" comment was "tongue in cheek". She was joking! OMG can't liberals take a joke?

What, exactly, was her joke? To me it seemed like she said that without a hint of irony.

Guilty Spork
Feb 26, 2011

Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

Time to read Zinn posted:

What, exactly, was her joke? To me it seemed like she said that without a hint of irony.
Admittedly I only saw the clips as they were presented on the Daily Show and Colbert Report, but Kelly came off as extremely serious and non-jokey when she said that. If she did in fact mean it as a joke, as far as I can tell she managed a wholly un-joke-like delivery, to a degree that would be hard to manage on purpose.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

The_Rob posted:

It just baffles me that the Highest rated news channel is a white supremacy channel.

It shouldn't be too baffling, there's an immense market for it.

beatlegs
Mar 11, 2001

Lycus posted:

apparently she sincerely thought Jesus was white
She's FOX's brightest star.

...and may I say, America's sexiest journalist

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Von Sloneker posted:

Not that I needed multiple aneurysms, but I decided to watch this thing anyway, and a) the Trump quote was even more harebrained: "That [homeless] guy has eight billion dollars more than me;" and b) the woman laughing hysterically at the mere idea of giving a million dollars to the homeless, A&P Supermarket heiress Juliet Hartford, then added after some contemplation, "I just have so few houses, like in the Bahamas and London."

To be fair, a few of those kids do seem self-aware and conflicted, even sympathetic. But holy poo poo that Cody Franchetti dude. Every stereotype compacted into one shining quintessence. Quoting Schopenhauer, bitching about proper lapel height. He is smarm incarnate.

The guy who created the documentary, Jamie Johnson, is the only person who in either of his films manages to come across as someone genuinely bothered by his wealth and confused as how to deal with it. He talks about how his 18th birthday was spent with him signing massive amounts of legal documents, drawing up a will, forming trusts and various accounts, etc. He ended up giving up on school and worked on an oil rig for 6 months before going back to resuming his wealthy life.

The follow-up, The One Percent, he interviews a lot more and actually landed one of Milton Friedman's last interviews, though Friedman dismissed everything Johnson said and then accused him of advocating socialism and stormed out. Johnson really isn't the most eloquent or intelligent film-maker, but no one else really had the personal connections or prestige to get a hold of most of those billionaire heirs/heiress and get them on camera revealing how they really feel about their wealth.

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fade5
May 31, 2012

by exmarx

Guilty Spork posted:

Admittedly I only saw the clips as they were presented on the Daily Show and Colbert Report, but Kelly came off as extremely serious and non-jokey when she said that. If she did in fact mean it as a joke, as far as I can tell she managed a wholly un-joke-like delivery, to a degree that would be hard to manage on purpose.
Yeah, that shocked the gently caress out of me that she just flat out said "Santa Claus is white" and "Jesus is white" completely seriously, like it was an undisputed fact. The Santa thing was what really irritated me, because if nothing else, "Santa" is going to look like whoever is playing him. Guess what, that means Black and Hispanic Santas are fairly common in here San Antonio, I even had my picture taken with a few when I was a kid; none of the kids care, they just want to see Santa.

I'm guessing almost every single kid you'd ask would call these two guys "Santa".

On the white Jesus part, the first thing that popped into my mind was Huey Freeman:

Huey Freeman posted:

Excuse me. Everyone, I have a brief announcement to make. Jesus was black, Ronald Reagan was the devil, and the government is lying about 9-11. Thank you for your time and good night.
:allears: The Boondocks is the best show.

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