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You guys should be ashamed of ever doubting the Kaiki. He's a guy who specializes in lies, he's going to pull some pupper-master bullshit real soon.
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Dec 22, 2013 08:29
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:55 |
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Might be fully capable of lying to himself.
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Dec 22, 2013 08:35
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The conversation with Ononoki is fascinating when you consider Kaiki's supposed creed from Nisemonogatari; that an imitation is superior to the real thing because in trying to imitate something it is able to surpass it. Even if his acts towards Senjougahara's family were fakes all along, he winds up being the biggest hero she could have possibly asked for.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 20:05
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Second Season is really big on the dangers of lying to yourself, isn't it? It's come up before in Bake/Nise, but Second Season is really hammering it home. Ending it on a Kaiki-narrated arc becomes more appropriate by the moment. More importantly... That Ononoki conversation. After that, I'm pretty sure Nadeko figured out the deception because Ougi warned her. If he's lying to himself about what he's doing, and he's involved in one of her plans, I'm pretty sure that she's going to adapt her plans to punish the liar. That seems to be her thing. They really need to start communicating. If Araragi shared his suspicions about her with the others, and if Hanekawa had told him why she asked those questions this time, Kaiki probably would have approached this situation very differently.
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Dec 22, 2013 20:29
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My guess is the ruse didn't work because Koyomi visited Nadeko that very morning. Also, Kaiki will survive based off knowing what's in
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Dec 22, 2013 21:25
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Einander posted:
Trying to make sense of everyone's overarching motivations and actions seems like a fool's errand, given that we've been told maybe half of everything that's happened from Nise up until now.
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Dec 22, 2013 23:00
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Theres one person who's been the problem this season. One person who's caused a poo poo ton of trouble, especially to Nadeko. Ougi. Who the gently caress is Ougi anyways!? We know now that she isn't related to Oshino in any way, which raises even more suspicion on her. Instead of pinning the blame on poor little Ononoki, I'd happy say that Ougi's trickery might be at play here.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:58
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Einander posted:They really need to start communicating. If Araragi shared his suspicions about her with the others, and if Hanekawa had told him why she asked those questions this time, Kaiki probably would have approached this situation very differently. Araragi's thing is he's LN harem protagonist dense. That's actually a character flaw of his in-universe. It's basically why it took three different stories for Hanekawa to take control of her oddity; Araragi had absolutely no idea Hanekawa liked him like that and even if he did, he was too self-depreciating to act on it and then devoted himself to Senjogahara This season is making me want to read all the LNs, which must mean it's good because I loving hate NisiOisiN's prose.
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Dec 23, 2013 05:58
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Man, there's all this stuff this season that happened at Araragi's house that I wanted to see. Hachikuji hangin' out, Ononoki hangin' out, that goddamn Senjougahara/Araragi family dinner holy poo poo Nisio needs to devote an entire LN to that event (so then it can be animated). I'll bet the conversations between Hitagi and Karen/Tsukihi would make Koyomi explode from embarrassment.
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Dec 23, 2013 08:38
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Really, I just want more Mamaragi. Don't care how we get it.
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Dec 23, 2013 13:40
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MadRhetoric posted:This season is making me want to read all the LNs, which must mean it's good because I loving hate NisiOisiN's prose. 
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Dec 23, 2013 14:29
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Holy loving poo poo.  NO! Not Kaiki!! Ougi, you loving bastard. I think it's pretty obvious who the final boss really is now. That was amazingly well done, though. I'm surprised that Kaiki really pulled it off. Nadeko's secret was hilarious and her reaction is priceless. Hopefully we'll never be seeing her again, ever. Rest in Peace, Kaiki Deishu. You were the best narrator. I'm not going to bother questioning how you narrated your own death, though. i300 fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Dec 28, 2013 |
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Dec 28, 2013 19:06
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 NISIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RIP Kaiki, in the end you only fell to someone you had no knowledge of. Well that ended with quite a bang. I liked Kaiki in Nise but this arc improved my opinion of him tremendously, especially after the resolution to this arc and all the character insight we get into him.
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Dec 28, 2013 19:33
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This is all a bit weird when you've read (seen?) Hanamonogatari, but still best show! Wonder when the lost arc will appear. Apparently the "heroine book" for Nadeko will contain (ep 26 spoiler) an 11-page full colour manga "made by Nadeko". Hopefully there'll be scans or something. In the same announcement, it says it will be released Jan 31st, on the same day as Owarimonogatari vol 2, using the kanji 中, which means there'll be a vol 3 later. -_-
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Dec 28, 2013 19:36
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rip in pieces kaiki. Is he confirmed dead? It's sad to see him go.
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Dec 28, 2013 21:50
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There's no loving way Kaiki's dead. He's lying to us so we never look to him to narrate ever again  This season had some loving insanely good stories, but goddamn is Hitagi End a step even above them. Namnesor fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 03:32
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Quite a way to end the season. Really looking forward to Kanbaru's arc next since we barely saw any of her over the past 26 episodes.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:21
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So does that resolution mean the flashforward earlier in the series to a confrontation at the shrine was a fake-out?
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Dec 29, 2013 04:23
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Paracelsus posted:So does that resolution mean the flashforward earlier in the series to a confrontation at the shrine was a fake-out? The cast might be gathering to face Ougi in that flashforward instead.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:26
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Paracelsus posted:So does that resolution mean the flashforward earlier in the series to a confrontation at the shrine was a fake-out? Kind of. It was the future as imagined by Nadeko. It's sort of clear if you listen to how it's narrated.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:32
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Holy hell that was one heck of an episode I do enjoy how with the perspective shift that it really makes Araragi seem incompetent and childish. Exactly how an adult would look at a child. Also I can't deal with that cliffhanger my god.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:57
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Bah, I was expecting Kaiki to explain just why his initial plan was completely piss-weak. Though that's probably because he was basically obsessed with being the white knight to Senjougahara, though whether or not pre-decrabbed Senjougahara was actually in love with Kaiki is left unconfirmed.
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Dec 29, 2013 08:53
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I've seen the talk about Araragi seeming like a dumb from Kaiki's perspective before, and it weirds me out every time. I think people don't really get how Araragi thinks of himself. I mean, there's a reason he's shown getting his rear end kicked in every single fight after he drops the vampire powers, and why he has Shinobu do all of the vampire things, despite being just as capable any time she drinks his blood... But also why the one fight we see from an outside perspective has him curbstomp. It's also why there's mentions of Araragi being hot-blooded like his little sisters before high school. It isn't just that Kaiki thinks Araragi is a dumb kid, Araragi thinks Araragi is a dumb kid. The entire series shows us that he thinks this; the last few arcs are proof enough that we're not really getting an objective view of what's happening. He just thinks he has to try and help anyway.
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Dec 29, 2013 08:54
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darkgray posted:Kind of. It was the future as imagined by Nadeko. It's sort of clear if you listen to how it's narrated. yeah it was pretty obvious she was fantasizing. I mean, people pop in as she thinks about it.
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Dec 29, 2013 11:23
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Well, that's how you end a season. Hitagi End was the most talk-heavy story (and that's quite a thing in this series) yet it somehow managed to be excellent. Although I am afraid that its seriousness will make it less re-watchable. I will welcome the adventures of idiot extraordinaire Araragi when he comes back in the next season. Edit: I really liked that Kaiki lied to himself about his motives to help Senjougahara to the very end. That was really in-character. trucutru fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 12:12
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Especially when it goes ah, the problem is Nadeko's heart. That's definitely not the problem. Not because I'm a lovesick idiot who got burnt a long long time ago and jumped in with a half-assed solution, causing a catastrophe that I barely escaped from by drawing upon my own emotional anxieties. There are just enough parallels drawn between Kaiki and Araragi. Also, I know SHAFT is doing Nisekoi next, a harem story that I got bored of 3 chapters in. Anyone know the eta for Monogatari S3? Or will they first milk more of the Madoka train?
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Dec 29, 2013 12:28
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Phobophilia posted:Also, I know SHAFT is doing Nisekoi next, a harem story that I got bored of 3 chapters in. Anyone know the eta for Monogatari S3? Or will they first milk more of the Madoka train? Preview thing for Hanamonogatari says it'll be produced in 2014, so maybe we'll be seeing it soonish? Hopefully? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpBoCScj9f4 They also need to get loving Kizumonogatari out there.
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Dec 29, 2013 15:11
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darkgray posted:Preview thing for Hanamonogatari says it'll be produced in 2014, so maybe we'll be seeing it soonish? Hopefully? No one knows what's up with Kizu outside Aniplex/Shaft/Kodansha.
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Dec 29, 2013 15:46
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Is this series actually done or is Nisio still writing more books? There are 4 more books after Hitagi End? We still have to see Kanbaru's arc and Kizumonogatari? I just am wondering how it all ends. This season was really good.
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Dec 29, 2013 16:44
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I think there are only a few more books left and then the series will be over? It sounds like anime-wise, to cover everything we'll be getting another tv special, a movie, and presumably another season.
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Dec 29, 2013 17:40
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It's confirmed there aren't too many books left. Owarimonogatari (end story) apparently will have 3 volumes, then Zokuowarimonogatari is presumed to be the final book. Owarimonogatari vol. 2 is coming out on January 31st. So I think getting an adaptation of the Third Season in 2014 might be a bit ambitious. I'm hoping we see Hanamonogatari in summer, with Kizumonogatari coming out in the Winter. Then I think they could get Third Season out in the Summer of 2015.
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Dec 29, 2013 19:40
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Originally, wasn't Hitagi End meant to be what it said on the tin? The end? Or I guess more symbolically just the end of the affairs of Senjougahara and Araragi? The big bad was pretty blatantly revealed and yet not dealt with, so unless that was already addressed in Suruga Devil it's hard to believe Nisio wouldn't have more books planned. At any rate, you see Ougi's name show up in a bunch of the arcs for Owari, so I guess that's where that will be addressed once and for all. Does anything important happen in Tsukimonogatari (apparently bad) or Koyomimonogatari to warrant them getting adaptations first? E: Episode itself was cool and did not at all go the way I thought it would. Hitagi End was definitely the highlight of S2. Good series. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 20:06
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Nishio is still writing Monogatari books, with vol 16 coming out in a month, and at least one more book planned after that. Dunno if Zoku-Owarigatari will still happen, now that Owari got so long. Tsukimonogatari introduces a factor that puts the pressure on Araragi post-Koimonogatari events. Bad because it's tediously long, includes an endless sibling bathroom scene, and has a plot that just feels like a prologue to whatever comes next. Koyomimonogatari is a collection of 12 shorter stories taking place once a month during the "monogatari year", so the last few chapters move the storyline forward. Owarimonogatari is ??? because I haven't started reading it yet. Not sure how to describe Hanamonogatari, since its very existence is a bit of a gently caress you to the fans.
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Dec 29, 2013 21:04
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darkgray posted:Not sure how to describe Hanamonogatari, since its very existence is a bit of a gently caress you to the fans. Sounds fun. Looking forward to this.
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Dec 29, 2013 21:22
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i300 posted:Sounds fun. Looking forward to this. Well, it's the position in the book order that makes it a troll. Not as big an impact for anime viewers due to the delay.
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Dec 29, 2013 21:27
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darkgray posted:Well, it's the position in the book order that makes it a troll. Not as big an impact for anime viewers due to the delay. Seriously. I've been reading the books for close to 4 years now, and that loving book is the proof that Nisio is aware of how good he can get to be at storytelling, and yet it gives the impression that he's perfectly happy to just get a rise out of the readers by being a dickhead. Well, that and the book where he spends an inordinate amount of time passive-aggressively making passes at Yui Horie... was that the Mayoi book or the Shinobu book? Can't remember right now.
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Dec 29, 2013 21:43
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Wark Say posted:was that the Mayoi book or the Shinobu book? Can't remember right now. At any rate, I loved what they did with Kaiki. A big theme in this season has been how changing the narrator skews the perception of the -gatari world, and none was seemingly more obvious than with Kaiki. Despite being a con man who only really cares about money (and Kanbaru) his narration paints one of the most normal worldviews thus seen in -gatari. He is even exasperated by the bits and pieces he hears of Araragi's antics. As a character in general, he is probably the most interesting of the lot as well. He is in essence a walking contradiction, and he knows it. He styles himself as a "fake", and yet his creed is that a fake can be better than the real thing. And when he seems to "genuinely" try to do something good, such as destroying the cult Hitagi's mother was in or help out in this whole Nadeko mess, he fucks it up. Conversely, he easily succeeded in breaking up the Senjougahara family through conning them. Since he seems vaguely aware of this, he goes out of his way to adhere to his money-bound moral compass even when he'd probably be fine helping out or doing whatever. Gaen/Ononoki seem aware of it too, hence all of the warnings. Might be difficult to make him the narrator again though (If he survives...). Maybe as a supporting character? Or a flashback to his younger days with Gaen/Oshino/Kagenui?
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Dec 30, 2013 05:51
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 I'm shocked really, its hard to describe a great episode of an anime because its so rare, its like trying to describe a tesseract, where do you start? How? Somehow the last something like five episodes in a row have managed to last what felt like 5 minutes to me making me convinced that Shaft is stealing away my time for some nefarious reason. Kaiki  He was awesome, I would give anything now to watch a series that's a supernatural thriller but from the perspective of someone just like Kaiki, is he how William Hartnel's Doctor feel to people? Or Seven (McCoy?)?
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Dec 30, 2013 05:52
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Just caught up to the end. That sure was a lot of deception going on, inwards, outwards, incidental.
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Jan 3, 2014 14:40
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:55 |
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Where are you guys reading up on the translations? I've been looking everywhere.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:51
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