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Firstly, I think everyone can empathise with that feeling - we've all been there sometimes. Hell, I regularly corner and admonish students (and a couple of staff on one occasion) for shouting "hello" at my back when I am walking through campus, so there's plenty of Chinafight in me. It's good that you are paying attention to it as well, alot of people just assume that China's the problem, rather than their reaction to it. The key thing is to recognize that you are master of how you respond to situations and that you can condition yourself into a more positive response. There is no need for medication, you can, and should, solve this problem yourself: you don't even need to do any gay breathing exercises, I promise. Does this description ring a bell: What causes your anxiety? For many people it's the sensation of being a conspicuous outsider, every interaction is coloured with the knowledge that you are not being "seen" in the same way as you feel yourself to "be". You feel like an object, an abstraction. Every stare becomes an insult. You begin to limit your activities. Everything becomes an unpleasant chore. Day to day life leaves you feeling angry. You create a a mental and physical "space" for yourself and defend it vigorously. Leaving that "space" makes you feel apprehensive. Gradually the "space" shrinks. You begin to live a rather limited, closed, warped life.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:37
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Spiderjelly fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 05:45
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:edit: Oops, forgot about the quoting. My bad. Somewhat similar situation here. Great job, but this country just stresses me out needlessly at times. (Steam games are my remedy.) Fearcotton's recent headache with a student doggedly trying to push her into free tutoring is a good example. That kind of thing drives me nuts, and we encounter it way too frequently here. Our Chinese head teacher -- who is a paragon of efficiency and order, a rarity in these parts -- puts it like this: "We Chinese people are pushy, pushy, pushy." I get it, and it's easy enough to deal with (push back), but it's just tiresome and stupid. blinkyzero fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 05:59
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[Sorry, I forgot you were going to delete posts. I won't quote you.] I don't want to get into an argument with anybody about this but for my part I would argue that taking medication gives further reality to some of the negative responses and behaviours which have been gradually building up. It also tends to cure the symptoms rather than the problem itself. Yes, China can be a difficult place to live if you are an expat but it is a place like any other with people and cities and shops and cars and restaurants and houses and a million other ordinary everyday things. There's nothing which should need medication to manage. The first step towards dealing with all of this is to take a long, hard look at the "space" which you created for yourself. What's you daily routine like? How often do you cook for yourself? What things did you do in the US and don't do here? When was the last time you did some regular exercise? Once you have regained a healthy and regular routine you'll find that you're much happier with yourself and that positive personal attitude makes that "space" bigger and brighter. Once you're there, personal satisfaction breeds confidence and you are ready to start trying to change your relationship with your little piece of China. For every mutterred "laowai" you hear, you get to smile at one of the local grannies and ask if she's eaten yet. Make active attempts to have positive interactions with people and ascribe value to greeting neighbours and other people you often have contact with. Next, find a way to leave your impression on the world around you - nothing big, just something that shows you can reach beyond yourself and influence your surroundings. Living a somewhat isolated life is a perfect way to pick up some bad mental habits and one can end up in a complete knot: behaving quite unlike oneself. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:06
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I think you're right in general, though for some people medication can be a real boon (mostly if anxiety or similar problems were an issue well before they moved overseas).
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Dec 29, 2013 06:16
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blinkyzero posted:...if anxiety or similar problems were an issue well before they moved overseas... Oh yeah, I wouldn't questions that.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:17
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If you have real anxiety problems your brain is responding to a nonexistent stimulus, though. I used to get panic attacks and basically my body would go into fight-or-flight for no reason whatsoever. I took benzos for a little while but eventually went back to Zoloft and smoking weed every now and then, which seems to be the ideal solution for me. Marijuana has a paradoxical effect, though, in that occasional use helps with anxiety but chronic use exacerbates the problem. So I have to moderate significantly, which China does for me anyway because it's somewhat rare and hard to find. I don't think you can understand what this problem is like unless you have it, though. Basically your brain is triggering primitive defense mechanisms for no reason whatsoever, and being in a place where you are always an otherized center of attention can make things a lot worse.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:19
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Spiderjelly fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:28
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Lately I've found beating the poo poo out of hookers and shooting cops in the face in GTA to be amazingly therapeutic, though.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:29
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Spiderjelly fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:32
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bad day posted:Lately I've found beating the poo poo out of hookers and shooting cops in the face in GTA to be amazingly therapeutic, though. May I suggest Rogue Legacy. God drat has this game owned my soul the last week or so.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:33
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You are right, though - China is full of awful people doing awful, selfish things. But so is everywhere else, generally. If anything my time here has made me more aware of the incongruities of first-world lifestyles and how we devote massive amounts of time and effort to passionately arguing with each other and complaining about "problems" that barely exist. I have a really hard time carrying on a conversation with people other than long-time friends when I go home. The subject inevitably turns to politics or offensensitivity issues and I want to start punching people in the face and lecturing them about how they should be loving grateful they didn't grow up in a dirt floor farmhouse in rural Henan and they have absolutely nothing to complain about.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:38
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Spiderjelly posted:See, it's not that, I don't think. It's more that I'm having trouble measuring out appropriate responses to real stimuli. Freaking out over being stared at, that sort of thing. Benzos can take the edge off. I find Ativan doesn't give you a buzz but makes it really difficult to get upset about anything. The key is to only use these them as short-term or occasional "as needed" because it's very easy to get addicted. People may disagree but I fully believe in better living thru chemistry so long as you are conscientious about using drugs.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:41
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spiderjelly eat the
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Dec 29, 2013 06:46
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SJ posted:Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with making firm judgements about another culture if you have lived there for a while and experienced a good deal of what a country has to offer. You certainly shouldn't beat yourself up about not liking everything about a place - I loving hate London for example and it doesn't make me a Nazi. One reason that alot of Chinese people want to move to Canada is because they feel the same way as you do, and this is about their own country too. So you really haven't become a horrible person. Maybe Taiwan would be a good choice in the end. Like I say, step one is a bit of mental spring cleaning - get a regular routine and take a bit more pride in yourself and your life. Step two involves reaching out to some other people around you, take a positive step to try to have a meaningful interaction or two rather than suffering random "hellooos" in silence. Then find a way to influence your surroundings: go and find some culture and get involved with it somehow (it won't be easy, but it's a task worth doing if it is important to you). If the asshats bother you, then find cultured people and do things with them - it's what you'd do in the US so why not do it here? GuestBob fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:49
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Spiderjelly fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:51
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Spiderjelly fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:59
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By the way, kids, I'm taking a scuba diving trip to Thailand this January, anyone want to come?
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Dec 29, 2013 07:40
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I find it really relaxing here, is there something wrong with me?
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Dec 29, 2013 07:58
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bad day posted:You are right, though - China is full of awful people doing awful, selfish things. But so is everywhere else, generally. If anything my time here has made me more aware of the incongruities of first-world lifestyles and how we devote massive amounts of time and effort to passionately arguing with each other and complaining about "problems" that barely exist. Oh man, this. Even my oldest friends jump on that train when I go home and see them. Stuff like "the Chinese have hive minds, like ants and the Zerg! That's why communism was so successful there!" That statement is so utterly at odds with what you'd experience in just a couple days here that it's all I can do not to scream at them that they should try leaving the Goddamn U.S. for a bit before they say poo poo like that. That doesn't help, though, because people tend to get defensive whenever you talk about experiences you've had that they haven't, so I generally just try to avoid these issues entirely.
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Dec 29, 2013 08:06
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Lol, you're hitting the 3-year point of culture shock. Seriously, been there done that. All the small stupid poo poo you've been smiling at and ignoring is finally getting to you. Stupid poo poo that you kinda hoped would maybe "get better" over time has not changed one little bit, in fact, if anything, it's gotten somehow worse. I dealt with it in the same way, I bugged out for a while, and quickly discovered how petty and stupid I was being once all the good stuff was gone, and how stupidly small those problems actually were. If you need to bug out for a while, do it, but my advice is to not go sell and dump your poo poo here. Get a storage unit or friend or something to stash what you care about for like a year or two prepaid. One of two things will happen once you sever. Either you'll say gently caress it and never come back, or you'll get back asap and become a lifer. Some might suggest travel or something, but in my own case, it only made the problem worse. What really does help is getting back to "normal living" or whatever your hosed up brain has decided is "normal". Remember that whatever food that craved everyday for like a year or so before you got the chance to go home for vacation and immediately ate the poo poo out of? It didn't taste the way you remembered at all did it? In fact, you probably don't even really crave it now at all anymore. It's kinda like that. Putting it all in perspective, all the gains and personal improvements you've made over the last 3 years and deciding "was this just a phase in my life which is now over" or "gots to get back there asap". Spoilers: Any/all of your China bitching in the US will be met with blank faces, they only really know about what they see on the news, most of which is warped and bullshit. Attempting to explain anything using your experienced views will only really serve to segregate yourself in social situations. There's a whole lotta poo poo you'll discover that you miss from life over here, obtaining it will range from difficult to impossible to get and it'll cost an amount which is offensive at best. Give up the idea of actual Chinese food, there are some places that might have it, but recall those cravings for poo poo when you got here? It happens the other way too, they'll all make it wrong, it gets annoying p loving fast. Whether you realize it or not, there's a whole lotta poo poo you have incorporated into your life over the last 3 years without really thinking about it and just taking for granted. Happened to me for sure, prolly happens to most everyone with some serious time under their belt.
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Dec 29, 2013 08:09
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blinkyzero posted:Oh man, this. Even my oldest friends jump on that train when I go home and see them. Stuff like "the Chinese have hive minds, like ants and the Zerg! That's why communism was so successful there!" That statement is so utterly at odds with what you'd experience in just a couple days here that it's all I can do not to scream at them that they should try leaving the Goddamn U.S. for a bit before they say poo poo like that. That doesn't help, though, because people tend to get defensive whenever you talk about experiences you've had that they haven't, so I generally just try to avoid these issues entirely. Echoing my post above. Either you confirm their crazy bullshit or you threaten their retarded world perspective. There is no real middle-ground. Either you agree with them and USA#1, or you don't and you're a loving commie. Not everyone's like that, but enough are that you'll find yourself in a bubble pretty quick.
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Dec 29, 2013 08:17
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Echoing my post above. Either you confirm their crazy bullshit or you threaten their retarded world perspective. There is no real middle-ground. Either you agree with them and USA#1, or you don't and you're a loving commie. Not everyone's like that, but enough are that you'll find yourself in a bubble pretty quick. I have never seen this USA #1 thing at all when I've gone back, and I'm from redneck-rear end Mississippi. In my experience, most people are pretty interested and aren't shy about admitting ignorance. The key is to limit how much you talk about it. Whenever I go back now I make a somewhat conscious effort to not talk about myself or my life abroad if no one asks about it. The problem with expats going back is that they never shut the gently caress up about being expats and living in Foreignlandia and doing all this sweet stuff and and and! This just annoys the gently caress out of everyone else back home. No one has been wondering what Mr. Expat was up to while he was gone, because they have jobs and lives and have been doing their own poo poo, which Mr. Expat never bothers to ask about and thus never gets caught up with everyone. Instead, Mr. Expat manages to always make a comparison to wherever he's been, talks about himself incessantly, and comes across as a narcissist.
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Dec 29, 2013 09:19
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Smeef posted:I have never seen this USA #1 thing at all when I've gone back, and I'm from redneck-rear end Mississippi. In my experience, most people are pretty interested and aren't shy about admitting ignorance. The key is to limit how much you talk about it. Whenever I go back now I make a somewhat conscious effort to not talk about myself or my life abroad if no one asks about it. Yeah, this is accurate. I was super conscious about not doing this when I got back from China the first time. I went to high school with lots of super special New England rich kid snowflakes and they were always taking trips to France and Italy and India and poo poo, and then yammering on about it for hours when they'd return. I didn't want to be that guy.
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Dec 29, 2013 09:45
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I just complain about how drat hard it is to pay bills in the US vs China. Just gotta go to the 7/11 scan my card and bam. I have to actually set up bill pay online in america and JEEEEEZ.
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Dec 29, 2013 10:34
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Hey spider jelly I hope everything will work well with you. Best of luck and take care. If you were closer or I was less busy I would take a train over, have dinner with you and give you a nice hug. Hang in there
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Dec 29, 2013 10:35
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Magna Kaser posted:I just complain about how drat hard it is to pay bills in the US vs China. Just gotta go to the 7/11 scan my card and bam. I have to actually set up bill pay online in america and JEEEEEZ. Meanwhile I have to march my rear end through the mustard gas over to Hongqi at 8am on Christmas morning to top up my electricity card. Then at 10pm on Christmas night two doofuses bang on my door for 15 minutes asking me to pay my water bill.  I don't think I know any two people who pay their bills the same way in China.
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Dec 29, 2013 10:57
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blinkyzero posted:I didn't want to be that guy. My family are all that guy, kind of. There's been a member of my little tribe in China at some point during every decade since the (late)70s. About half of my immediate family have worked outside the UK for an extended period of time and I am not the only one currently doing so. It's not like we're super posh or anything, we normally go to weird places to work not relax.
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Dec 29, 2013 11:00
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Lol, you're hitting the 3-year point of culture shock. Seriously, been there done that. All the small stupid poo poo you've been smiling at and ignoring is finally getting to you. Stupid poo poo that you kinda hoped would maybe "get better" over time has not changed one little bit, in fact, if anything, it's gotten somehow worse. I find it hard to believe you've ever experienced any form of culture shock. Wouldn't it just be better/easier to go someplace that doesn't require so much moral and social sacrifice? I'm starting to think so. Thanks for all the Chinalove, goons. Spiderjelly fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 11:09
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I'm pretty much the only person in my family to have set foot outside of Western Europe. Telling them about the mysterious Orient is one of my favourite pastimes. Did you know they poo poo in the streets and eat with sticks?
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Dec 29, 2013 11:10
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I keep saying welcome to the party pal like Bruce Willis in die hard to spider jelly but I know he can't hear me
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Dec 29, 2013 11:13
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synertia posted:I keep saying welcome to the party pal like Bruce Willis in die hard to spider jelly but I know he can't hear me Welcome? Doesn't three years qualify me as a bitter vet?
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Dec 29, 2013 11:17
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The big question is whether you're Bruce Willis in Die Hard or Bruce Willis in The Fifth Element.
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Dec 29, 2013 11:27
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Arglebargle III posted:The big question is whether you're Bruce Willis in Die Hard or Bruce Willis in The Fifth Element. Ask the guy I punched. either of them
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Dec 29, 2013 11:29
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I feel the long term culture shock thing isn't just culture shock. There might be a moment when we realize we can't go back home. We also aren't simply on some adventure, but in fact living our life and this is what it looks like. We don't have the ruby slippers, and even when we go to some remembered home-like place we are now changed and it is no longer home. Neither is this place where we find ourselves now home or perhaps even home like. Maybe this doesn't happen to everyone. I don't know. How the hell did that happen? Whose to blame? Anxiety is a generalized fear, rather than a specific one. The anger also has no appropriate subject/object. In short it sucks. It feels weird because we are disproportionately angry often with complete strangers. There isn't the thing or the person which if addressed will fix it. Of course you should do whatever feels appropriate to you to deal with it. Personally I would not medicate and I would really stay away from sedatives and depressants, but again that's what I would do, not what you should do and generally speaking I am a mess. I would also really consider that it might not be just about China, though massively amplified by that. Personally I liked this because it let me see it happening, rather than it just happening and me taking on a bunch of unexamined and ill considered coping mechanisms to deal with it. Those can take years and years to deal with and become your whole life if you're not careful. In my own own experience the bitterness and cynicism of the bitter vet can be one of these mechanisms based on dehumanizing others and so one's self in the process. I did (do) a bunch of things, including getting very curious about the condition itself, without imagining it was unique to me or uniquely produced by me. This also meant simply learning to feel what I was feeling, rather than assuming it was a problem to feel that. Additionally I worked on expression, which often involved artistic endeavor, such as it was. Which is to say, I am no skilled artist in any domain and it sucked, but artistic greatness was not the point. And I will add diet and exercise which create a basis for circulating what you feel, rather than getting stuck in it, at which point I think you can now meaningful tell me to gently caress off with my advice.
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Dec 29, 2013 15:34
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Spiderjelly posted:Ask the guy I punched. either of them Spiderjelly, everyone has already given you quite a bit of advice and I missed your original posts, but let me also suggest the following: 1. contact a psychiatrist (either China or home based for you) who is willing to work over Skype. International SOS does offer ones who do Skype work. They also write prescriptions; medication isn't always helpful or necessary, but when it is it is and you should have access to it. Even if you don't start seeing them regularly they may give you an outline of physical things that are helpful for you to deescalate. 2. make a routine, as per Guestbob's suggestion. Do all that you can to create an ordered day. 3. realize that it is okay to feel crazy, and also that your brain is playing with you. You're in a stressful situation, yes, but your brain is forcing it from a 5 to a 10, or not allowing you to eventually relax. If you're having a hard time leaving your home then depression seems like an issue, too. 4. if this--and by this I mean China--isn't working for you and is harming you...it is okay to leave. Really! There is no shame in saying "nope!" and switching countries. However, if this is Anxiety as opposed to a mix of cultural fatigue/stress, it may follow you from place to place. I have panic attacks where I think I'm dying (and a lung problem. So I moved to China because I make all the good decisions!). I had it before China and I'll have it after China. I very rarely use them, but having meds on hand that can help me physically calm down helps a lot just because I know I have that option. Beyond that, the general advice most of the doctors I saw was this: make a routine. Eat well and at the same time each day. Exercise. If your place is untidy use UnFuck Your Habitat and organize the hell out of it. Use your day planner. Pick a physical action to do to break your mind out of it's "everything is ruined forever" loop. And talk to somebody. You're gonna be okay, Spiderjelly. At the very least caberham has offered you a hug!
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Dec 29, 2013 16:50
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Sogol posted:This also meant simply learning to feel what I was feeling, rather than assuming it was a problem to feel that. What do you mean by this?
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Dec 29, 2013 16:54
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FearCotton posted:Spiderjelly, everyone has already given you quite a bit of advice and I missed your original posts, but let me also suggest the following: It's definitely cultural fatigue rather than some generalized anxiety. While I think I have at this point developed a bit of social anxiety, it's not manifesting as fear as much as it is inappropriate impatience, irritability, and hostility. In short, I'm becoming an rear end in a top hat, despite myself.
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Dec 29, 2013 17:02
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Hitting that cultural fatigue, professionally at least, over here. You've got an air mattress (a few couches too) in Seoul.
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Dec 29, 2013 17:17
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DontAskKant posted:Hitting that cultural fatigue, professionally at least, over here. You've got an air mattress (a few couches too) in Seoul. One good thing about China is that I live in a four bedroom apartment by myself. Suck it, Korea. E: and thanks
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Dec 29, 2013 18:07
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